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  1. pranavvk's Avatar
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    Default Blackberry India Strategy is wrong

    Ok, Here is my frank view on what Blackberry should have done in the India launch.

    Now before you tell me that the launch is today and that it hasnt been launched and all that....here is the problem...

    No one knows that the Z10 is a whole new platform.

    NO-ONE.....
    (ok some people know...but the general phone buying public... no).

    Most blackberries in India are still Curves ... and not the new curves...im talking the 8520 Generation.
    Let us be honest, the 8520 and all are good entry level phones, but they arent the best phones out there. They had issues. They had issues with OS7.
    So the general public in India is going around listening to people ***** about OS7 and how the phone sucks and all.
    Blackberry should have spent a lot of time fixing this view. There should have been a month long campaign promoting BB10 and DIFFERENTIATING it from BB7
    This hasnt happened..

    So this is now the ground reality in India. You go into a store and they see the BB10.. but there has been no buzz created about a whole new platform. People will view a Rs. 43,500 phone and think... "do i want to spend almost a month's salary on a phone that will be buggy and irritating. My friend had a Blackberry and he hated it..."

    I never thought the Z10 would do well in India. Its just too expensive. If you look at all the phones Samsung advertises ...its not the GSIII. They advertise their low end Galaxy phones. That is what makes up most of the market in India.
    What Blackberry should have done is put a lot of effort into differentiating BB10 from BB7 which they have not. It would have still been a loss leader...but they should have immediately followed it up with a low end and a mid end phone.
    Those would have made up a significant portion of the market.
    The people who can afford the 43,500 phones have already moved to Iphones.

    Just my 2 cents.

    (Posted the below later, but for people with comprehension and reading issues i might as well add the clarification here)

    I really should reiterate that the point i was trying to make in this thread is Differentiation.... not cost.

    Blackberry really cannot sell the phones at a lower cost in India. That would screw over their customes in other countries. Also it would **** off their retailers in other nations because people would just import the phone from some online store in India.

    What I think blackberry did wrong, is not market the phone the right way. They needed to make people WANT the device.They needed to build up hype. They needed to market it as something new and revolutionary.
    This would have helped them when they finally launch a more mid-priced phone.
    Its the Marketing strategy which is wrong, not the pricing strategy.
    Last edited by pranavvk; 02-26-2013 at 11:17 AM.
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  2. HACandtelecoil's Avatar
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    I do not think that BB sees India as a major market for the Z10.

    A few weeks ago I was in Dubai and saw a lot of expensive cars. "Ordinary" Europeans like myself do not have an oil field in the garden and can not afford these cars...
  3. ramin mayar's Avatar
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    Do you mean. Your 2 cents as in INR cents or dollar cents which will probably be around .5 rupees.

    Posted via a microwave.
  4. pranavvk's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jrohland View Post
    BlackBerry advertisement: "Hello India. You know that phone you bought from us? Well, it is a POS! You should really buy our new phone because it is not a POS." Is that the kind of ad you have in mind?
    There is a reason why the advertising industry came up with "new and improved" ...
    Its why marketting departments exist.
  5. koolpep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HACandtelecoil View Post
    I do not think that BB sees India as a major market for the Z10.

    A few weeks ago I was in Dubai and saw a lot of expensive cars. "Ordinary" Europeans like myself do not have an oil field in the garden and can not afford these cars...
    OFFTOPIC:
    Hey, European living in Dubai for 6 years. You forget one thing:
    Cars are so much cheaper here than in Europe (and I mean European cars) and 80% of the population are not Emiratis but expats, hence they don't have oil fields neither.

    I am driving a car I could never afford back home in Germany on a normal salary. Here I can, easily.
    I have a car from Zuffenhausen with extras that would cost in Germany 28k Euro ($37k). Just. The. Options. and I bought the car used (3 years) still under dealer warranty and in pristine condition for exactly that price. German cars are on average 20-30% cheaper here (no sales tax in UAE) and come much better option packages. And yes, we have also two amazing race tracks here where you can actually drive the cars (or do some dune bashing if it's a 4x4, plenty of desert left). Car lovers paradise here for sure.

    Oh and India:
    Fully assembled cars imported into India are taxed with 110% or 120% means that if you see someone driving a Porsche in India that means a whole lot more than in Dubai. This guy must have some serious cash.
    BB_Junky likes this.
  6. njblackberry's Avatar
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    #6  

    Default

    Maybe Alicia Keys can come over there and sell some?
  7. atlac's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blackberry India Strategy is wrong

    I agree with OP post. BB phone at $800, price is the main driving force in Indian market. Just see the Samsung how captured market 5 years back and now. How can ( even bold BB fans) afford this price at equal to iPhone price. Where I will get updatable phone. Who will give guarantee this phone is eligible for future updates say BB11 after seeing present status of old devices like curve, torch, bold phones
  8. Hawkeberry's Avatar
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    BB10 seems priced for those users who somehow couldn't manage the extra 500 for an iPhone
    Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted
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  9. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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    While I normally have an annoyance with armchair executive ("you should do this marketing initative") posts and posts that make statements about a market data without market research ("everyone in the market does this ... because my five friends do!"), I thought this was a timely article

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/26/bu...ndia.html?_r=0
  10. Hawkeberry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blackberry India Strategy is wrong



    Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2
    Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted
  11. ramin mayar's Avatar
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    All those phones had the 4300 to 45000 price on launch days.

    Posted via a microwave.
  12. jiminabottle's Avatar
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    They probably don't want to cater to people who look for value for money when it comes to smartphones. Not a lot people do these days anyway. Thank god that other whiny thread got closed.

    Posted via CB10
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  13. lipper2000's Avatar
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    It's not just India...BB's biggest potential are places like Indonesia, Brazil and parts of Africa. These places are using the old BB devices primarily due to low device cost and also low BBM costs.
    This will all change with BB10 and the new devices.
    Hopefully have some ultra low cost devices coming out in the pipeline soon for these markets or they will be in some big trouble. It might be enough to stick with the old BB OS for these regions.
    Samsung and Nokia are both releasing full on smartphones for well under $200 on no contract in the next month...going to be difficult for BB for sure
  14. pranavvk's Avatar
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    Default

    I really should reiterate that the point i was trying to make in this thread is Differentiation.... not cost.

    Blackberry really cannot sell the phones at a lower cost in India. That would screw over their customes in other countries. Also it would **** off their retailers in other nations because people would just import the phone from some online store in India.

    What I think blackberry did wrong, is not market the phone the right way. They needed to make people WANT the device.They needed to build up hype. They needed to market it as something new and revolutionary.
    This would have helped them when they finally launch a more mid-priced phone.
    Its the Marketting strategy which is wrong, not the pricing strategy.
  15. hypermaster's Avatar
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    Default

    Currently, the Z10 is sold out in lots of Blackberry shops already.
    In India, dealers were selling the Z10 for Rs.70,000 to Rs.1,10,000 before launch & it was completely sold out.
    I myself sold many for Rs.70,000 and as low as Rs.55000 a week back.
    Its slightly cheaper than the iphone 5 right now.

    i agree, everyone was looking at a price point of Rs.35000 , but at this price it will sell, but slowly & in a few months they will bring the price down & thats when they will start selling like crazy.
    i'm loving this phone myself & i see many people wanting to buy it also.
    Most people in India were on BB & got a 2nd Android / iOS device, because they got fedup with no new releases since a long time, now they all want to shift back so that they dont have to carry 2 phones.

    Once Whats App in here with Native support, people will start buying at any price.
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  16. Kishore Thaakur's Avatar
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    Default

    Feel very sorry for Thorsten Heins. The poor guy worked so hard for the last one year to give us this amazing product.
    Every single subscriber held to or earned is super important to them! ..to add to that India was supposed to have a huge contribution towards their recovery.
    And here is this nincompoop handling the Indian affairs who instead of trying to convert the iFans and Fandroids to Blackberry, is actually trying to push away the Blackberry Fans! It's such a shame.

    I think Thorsten believes that this fool will competently handle the India Gold Mine, but they have done a BIG mistake.

    Just read this article: It's almost scary as to what this ***** is upto:
    http://m.timesofindia.com/tech/enter...kBerry-India-M...

    Hope Vivek goes and tells Thorsten how haphazardly and foolishly the launch even was held in India, and hope this wakes up Mr. Heins - he realizes the incompetency of the management here - and some heads roll in Blackberry India before it's too late!
  17. sam_b77's Avatar
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    Default

    Another whiney post from the same whiner.
    If you can't afford it, then buy something else. Next you will come and post how you can't afford the Rs.600,000 Rolex and how they should sell it for 10 bucks so that the poor of India can buy a Rolex. If it's not your price bracket then move on. The price is what it is. Either you can buy it or you can't.
    This is a rehash of the same whining thread that got shut down just as this one should.
    Pranav, you are making Indians look like cheap whiners you want stuff for free. People have bought the Z10 for 75k, trust me there will be enough who will buy it at 45k to meet BlackBerry's sales target for India. They don't want to sell it to every single Indian.
    The Nokia Lumia you keep talking about hasn't sold at 38000. The most Nokias that have sold is the Asha on which Nokia makes a loss. It hasn't brought Nokia into the black. Goes to show that there is no point to sell at a loss. Sell less but at a good margin. Not more at a loss. Wrap your head around this concept, it's called business.
    Through the Years :2001 Ericsson T29s> Sony Z5> Sony Z7> SE Z600>Moto A760> RAZR V3>Razr V3i>BB 8800>BB 9500 >BB 9800>Bold 9900..RIM Returns with a bang

    Life was much simpler when Apple and Blackberry were just fruits
  18. knighty2112's Avatar
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    The phone is priced the same as an unlocked phone here in the UK, so what are you winging for? I can't afford a lot of things but I don't moan and groan. I don't expect Ferrari to drop their car prices in the UK just so I can own one. Same thing with phones. If you can't afford it get a cheaper one. Simple!

    Posted via CB10 using my awesome BB Z10
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  19. pranavvk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam_b77 View Post
    Another whiney post from the same whiner.
    If you can't afford it, then buy something else. Next you will come and post how you can't afford the Rs.600,000 Rolex and how they should sell it for 10 bucks so that the poor of India can buy a Rolex. If it's not your price bracket then move on. The price is what it is. Either you can buy it or you can't.
    This is a rehash of the same whining thread that got shut down just as this one should.
    Pranav, you are making Indians look like cheap whiners you want stuff for free. People have bought the Z10 for 75k, trust me there will be enough who will buy it at 45k to meet BlackBerry's sales target for India. They don't want to sell it to every single Indian.
    The Nokia Lumia you keep talking about hasn't sold at 38000. The most Nokias that have sold is the Asha on which Nokia makes a loss. It hasn't brought Nokia into the black. Goes to show that there is no point to sell at a loss. Sell less but at a good margin. Not more at a loss. Wrap your head around this concept, it's called business.
    Did you read the part where i said i was talking about the marketting strategy and not the pricing strategy?
    let me repeat that...
    marketting strategy.....not pricing strategy...
    since you had a bit of difficulty the first time ..let me say it one more time
    MARKETTING STRATEGY and NOT....i repeat...NOT pricing strategy...

    Did you see the part where I said they had not done enough to "DIFFERENTIATE"...
  20. dj_matty_s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lipper2000 View Post
    It's not just India...BB's biggest potential are places like Indonesia, Brazil and parts of Africa.
    I agree these areas are important for BB, but it's not like they're somehow more important then North America or Europe are. EVERY market is important. Also, the z10 is a premium device which comes at a premium price, I really don't see a lot of people in Congo, Brazil or interior Indonesia being able to afford a z10, and that's not a bad thing. Blackberry knows that cheaper devices are important as well in these 'developing' nations, so the OS7 devices are a great fit currently, and we know that more OS10 devices are coming this year, I would assume at least one of them would be a "curve" type model that would do very well in these emerging markets. In the meantime, anyone in India, Brazil, or Africa that really wants the 'premium' z10, and doesn't mind paying the premium price that goes with it (like everyone else in the first world), can go and pick one up.
  21. sam_b77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knighty2112 View Post
    The phone is priced the same as an unlocked phone here in the UK, so what are you winging for? I can't afford a lot of things but I don't moan and groan. I don't expect Ferrari to drop their car prices in the UK just so I can own one. Same thing with phones. If you can't afford it get a cheaper one. Simple!

    Posted via CB10 using my awesome BB Z10
    Yeah well this simple concept is too difficult for some of my countrymen to understand. They are used to handouts otherwise they just whine. They are used to whining and getting stuff for free from the Government, guess they realized that private industry is profit motivated not vote motivated.
    Through the Years :2001 Ericsson T29s> Sony Z5> Sony Z7> SE Z600>Moto A760> RAZR V3>Razr V3i>BB 8800>BB 9500 >BB 9800>Bold 9900..RIM Returns with a bang

    Life was much simpler when Apple and Blackberry were just fruits
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  22. dj_matty_s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam_b77 View Post
    Yeah well this simple concept is too difficult for some of my countrymen to understand. They are used to handouts otherwise they just whine. They are used to whining and getting stuff for free from the Government, guess they realized that private industry is profit motivated not vote motivated.
    +1

    It's also an imported device, usually this carries a premium. I don't expect to be able to buy French wine cheaper then the French, or a german car cheaper then the Germans. Why should Indians be able to buy a Canadian phone cheaper then we can in Canada?

    Posted via CB10
  23. sam_b77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pranavvk View Post
    Did you read the part where i said i was talking about the marketting strategy and not the pricing strategy?
    let me repeat that...
    marketting strategy.....not pricing strategy...
    since you had a bit of difficulty the first time ..let me say it one more time
    MARKETTING STRATEGY and NOT....i repeat...NOT pricing strategy...

    Did you see the part where I said they had not done enough to "DIFFERENTIATE"...
    Don't worry your little head with MARKETING STRATEGY " or any other strategy. The guys who run a multi billion dollar industry have a better handle on all sorts of strategies than you can dream of. You just worry about raising 43k to buy the Z10. I suggest an IPO for your Z10 fund.
    Through the Years :2001 Ericsson T29s> Sony Z5> Sony Z7> SE Z600>Moto A760> RAZR V3>Razr V3i>BB 8800>BB 9500 >BB 9800>Bold 9900..RIM Returns with a bang

    Life was much simpler when Apple and Blackberry were just fruits
  24. chrysaurora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam_b77 View Post
    Don't worry your little head with MARKETING STRATEGY " or any other strategy. The guys who run a multi billion dollar industry have a better handle on all sorts of strategies than you can dream of. You just worry about raising 43k to buy the Z10. I suggest an IPO for your Z10 fund.
    I don't understand why you speak in condescending manner to the OP (pranavvk)? OP is entitled to his opinion and criticism. This is a discussion forum after all!

    Besides, your argument is flawed. Anybody can make mistakes. Even executives of multi billion dollar companies. It's not like multi billion dollar companies have never gone bankrupt or out of business due to poor strategy, poor execution or poor products. It has happened. So, telling someone to shut-up simply because this person is not an owner of a multi billion dollar company is plain stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by dj_matty_s View Post
    +1

    It's also an imported device, usually this carries a premium. I don't expect to be able to buy French wine cheaper then the French, or a german car cheaper then the Germans. Why should Indians be able to buy a Canadian phone cheaper then we can in Canada?
    What OP was commenting on was that: at such high price ($800), BlackBerry z10 might not sell well in India. We don't know what BlackBerry's intentions are or what kind of strategy they are playing with that kind of pricing but OP is just expressing his opinion that such high pricing won't yield as many sales.

    Besides, your statement ("Why should Indians be able to buy a Canadian phone cheaper then we can in Canada?") makes no sense. When did OP say they want to be able to purchase Z10 at CHEAPER than Canadian price? I think OP is talking about buying it at SIMILAR price as in Canada.

    For your information, Apple is also in the dock for selling Apple products at higher prices in Australia (Apple to Explain High Pricing in Australian Court | Applemetr). Generally speaking, electronics do not carry the same premium as other novelty products like select wines or luxury cars. The price difference is usually because of government taxes and duties.

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_b77 View Post
    Yeah well this simple concept is too difficult for some of my countrymen to understand. They are used to handouts otherwise they just whine. They are used to whining and getting stuff for free from the Government, guess they realized that private industry is profit motivated not vote motivated.
    Again, I find your condescension appalling. OP only raised a legitimate concern about BlackBerry's India strategy. Assuming that BlackBerry wants to aggressively expand market-share and sell a lot of device in India, OP felt that pricing was too high towards that goal. What's wrong in bringing that up? There are plenty of threads here on this forum where we've discussed, criticized RIM's strategies or policies.
    When did OP ask for a handouts?
    Last edited by chrysaurora; 02-26-2013 at 11:56 AM.
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  25. sam_b77's Avatar
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    Hey Pranav,
    Found a phone for you
    Blackberry India Strategy is wrong-nokia_1280_32.jpg
    It's the Nokia 1280. It's for $17. Now go to the Nokia forums and whine how that price is too expensive.
    Through the Years :2001 Ericsson T29s> Sony Z5> Sony Z7> SE Z600>Moto A760> RAZR V3>Razr V3i>BB 8800>BB 9500 >BB 9800>Bold 9900..RIM Returns with a bang

    Life was much simpler when Apple and Blackberry were just fruits
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