1. jj482's Avatar
    Hmm It's been a while since I did this on an handheld but I never remember a device password lasting through a security wipe. Kinda the point. You don't want a brick, but you want your data 100% wiped. As in scrubbed.

    Also, I don?t get how you can accidentally wipe the phone as it confirms a few times

    I also thought the attempt counts reset after a bit so you could give it a rest, think about it, and keep trying.

    No BlackBerry don't change it. What exactly should occur did occur and don't make compromises in security. The choice comes from putting in a Device password in the first place or connecting to an account that requires one to be in place . If anything, we just need Cloud Backups so recovery, assuming you know your BBID, point is closer to the wipe

    Posted via CB10 on my sweet Z10
    05-22-13 10:29 AM
  2. DaedalusIcarusHelios's Avatar
    I could have sworn that in my initial reading of this thread before posting, you had stated initially that she had created the password and then later on in another post you had changed the story to "someone had set it up differently from what she wanted" but now I can't find that post sorry for the confusion.
    No problem. I know people are naturally suspicious and defensive here because it's been difficult being a BB fan the last few years with all the trolls and negativity. I'm not in any way attacking BB, but I want it to work for my wife and others, and having options is what made the original BBOS so great (and a good reason why people love Android).
    05-22-13 10:31 AM
  3. DaedalusIcarusHelios's Avatar
    Hmm It's been a while since I did this on an handheld but I never remember a device password lasting through a security wipe. Kinda the point. You don't want a brick, but you want your data 100% wiped. As in scrubbed.

    Also, I don?t get how you can accidentally wipe the phone as it confirms a few times

    I also thought the attempt counts reset after a bit so you could give it a rest, think about it, and keep trying.

    No BlackBerry don't change it. What exactly should occur did occur and don't make compromises in security. The choice comes from putting in a Device password in the first place or connecting to an account that requires one to be in place . If anything, we just need Cloud Backups so recovery, assuming you know your BBID, point is closer to the wipe

    Posted via CB10 on my sweet Z10
    I think it was that she was trying the password she thought she set, and it didn't work, and probably out of frustration kept trying and didn't realize it would wipe the device. She came from an iPhone so she had certain expectations on the behavior that were incorrect. I'm not sure if BB10 attempt counter resets after some time - it might. I'm guessing she did this in a short period of time. Automatic cloud backups (like iCloud) would be nice. I have some options for her now though so in the situation that her device gets wiped, she'll be able to restore things.

    As far as compromising in security, I don't see how it would if the device is merely unusable and not wiped. Allowing a non-BES device to have its password reset from BB Protect would be a great feature I think. Maybe for the situations where it is stolen (and not merely user-error or an accident), if the device is locked out and hasn't been able to connect remotely to BB's servers (due to sim card removal or it was powered off) for a given period of time, the device would then do a security wipe. That would seem to be a good solution to me.
    05-22-13 10:42 AM
  4. JMDBERRY's Avatar
    Keep the BlackBerry, ...get a new wife!

    Posted via CB10
    Christo Mitov likes this.
    05-22-13 10:44 AM
  5. unbreakablej's Avatar
    Tbh, I lost my phone the other day and was able to lock, display message, track it's location etc. On BlackBerry protect. My iphone friend was pretty amazed... she told me you have to download an app to do that on iPhone or something. Not sure how they work but according to her it did not feel as simple as just logging in to the website.

    She was like, how can you not panic? And I was like... oh wells, I'm sure they can't get my data and it will be a pretty good excuse to get the q10 as a replacement! lol.

    Doctor Who Channel C000C1253
    05-22-13 10:49 AM
  6. dejanh's Avatar
    My point was and still is that only BlackBerry and BES admins have the ability to remove a device password once it is set. For the end user this password will survive any type of device reload whether a factory wipe, a full OS restore using Link, a restore using the website, or autoloader (using cap). Normal tools accessible to the end user will not allow you to circumvent the device password once it has been set. I could even record a video for you to show you this is the case when the next leak comes out, if you still need more proof.

    Now, if there is some tool that has leaked in the past that allows you to do a low level wipe and/or restore of some sort that wipes the password that is entirely different and is in fact a security breach.

    All I'm saying is that the problem brought forward by the OP is not the real problem. OP, your wife did something entirely different and somehow wiped her device. I would not be surprised if by mistake she ended up initiating the wipe somehow, though I am not sure how that is possible considering that the wipe requires confirmation. I'd look towards this being intentional or careless, rather than an issue with the implementation of the feature on the device.

    Oh and one more thing. If she did type the password incorrectly by hitting the wrong letter twice there are only a handful of combinations to try anyway before you figure out the password. You could have also simply asked her to grab the device and type as she would normally and chances are that she would miss hit the exact same letters again as she did when originally entering the password.

    Posted via CB10
    05-22-13 10:53 AM
  7. sk8er_tor's Avatar
    Here are a couple of suggestions:

    External SD Storage:
    Insert a SD card and this way, all of your pictures taken with the camera will save on the SD card and if this happens again, your pictures are intact on the SD card.

    Cloud Sync:
    Another option is that you can set up the Box app to sync your photos with Box.net cloud service. It gives you 10 GB of free storage when you sign up through BlackBerry 10.
    05-22-13 10:53 AM
  8. xamdam's Avatar
    Tbh, I lost my phone the other day and was able to lock, display message, track it's location etc. On BlackBerry protect. My iphone friend was pretty amazed... she told me you have to download an app to do that on iPhone or something. Not sure how they work but according to her it did not feel as simple as just logging in to the website.

    She was like, how can you not panic? And I was like... oh wells, I'm sure they can't get my data and it will be a pretty good excuse to get the q10 as a replacement! lol.

    Doctor Who Channel C000C1253
    Iphone uses an app called Find My Phone.

    Good job you found it as if anyone else did and turned it off right away or removed the sim, you would of never been able to track it.
    05-22-13 10:54 AM
  9. xamdam's Avatar
    My point was and still is that only BlackBerry and BES admins have the ability to remove a device password once it is set. For the end user this password will survive any type of device reload whether a factory wipe, a full OS restore using Link, a restore using the website, or autoloader (using cap). Normal tools accessible to the end user will not allow you to circumvent the device password once it has been set. I could even record a video for you to show you this is the case when the next leak comes out, if you still need more proof.

    Now, if there is some tool that has leaked in the past that allows you to do a low level wipe and/or restore of some sort that wipes the password that is entirely different and is in fact a security breach.

    All I'm saying is that the problem brought forward by the OP is not the real problem. OP, your wife did something entirely different and somehow wiped her device. I would not be surprised if by mistake she ended up initiating the wipe somehow, though I am not sure how that is possible considering that the wipe requires confirmation. I'd look towards this being intentional or careless, rather than an issue with the implementation of the feature on the device.

    Oh and one more thing. If she did type the password incorrectly by hitting the wrong letter twice there are only a handful of combinations to try anyway before you figure out the password. You could have also simply asked her to grab the device and type as she would normally and chances are that she would miss hit the exact same letters again as she did when originally entering the password.

    Posted via CB10
    No wrong .......... I did a factory reset before loading up 10.1 OS and my device password was gone after the wipe. I just remember that as you posted this, so it is gone after a factory reset.

    I forget if it asks for the password before doing a wipe.

    Try it out and let me know as I forget now.

    This is what factory reset is, it means wipe it before you sell it for example..... no password, it is like NEW out of the box afterwards.
    05-22-13 10:56 AM
  10. tinochiko's Avatar
    Nuf Said

    Kind Regards
    05-22-13 11:04 AM
  11. unbreakablej's Avatar
    Iphone uses an app called Find My Phone.

    Good job you found it as if anyone else did and turned it off right away or removed the sim, you would of never been able to track it.
    does that mean that people who don't know about the app won't be able to track their phone in such a case?
    ... oh an another redundant icon on the home page...

    I think I'm just more relaxed knowing that my data won't be available... I'm right in assuming that it is safe right [anyone know how safe BlackBerry is compared to the other phones btw in terms of being hacked?]?
    My sd card and device are encrypted too. I guess I'd rather risk my data being wiped after 10 attempts than anything else.

    The funny thing is the person who got my phone actually did not know how to answer the call when I called my phone! It was pretty hilarious maybe that is one of bb's security feature... deterence through ignorance.

    Doctor Who Channel C000C1253
    05-22-13 11:07 AM
  12. tinochiko's Avatar
    As far as I know, the only thing that can render a blackberry, and actually any phone basically useless, is a block from the network themselves.. i.e if they've been told that the phone is lost/stolen

    Kind Regards
    05-22-13 11:08 AM
  13. DaedalusIcarusHelios's Avatar
    My point was and still is that only BlackBerry and BES admins have the ability to remove a device password once it is set. For the end user this password will survive any type of device reload whether a factory wipe, a full OS restore using Link, a restore using the website, or autoloader (using cap). Normal tools accessible to the end user will not allow you to circumvent the device password once it has been set. I could even record a video for you to show you this is the case when the next leak comes out, if you still need more proof.

    Now, if there is some tool that has leaked in the past that allows you to do a low level wipe and/or restore of some sort that wipes the password that is entirely different and is in fact a security breach.

    All I'm saying is that the problem brought forward by the OP is not the real problem. OP, your wife did something entirely different and somehow wiped her device. I would not be surprised if by mistake she ended up initiating the wipe somehow, though I am not sure how that is possible considering that the wipe requires confirmation. I'd look towards this being intentional or careless, rather than an issue with the implementation of the feature on the device.

    Oh and one more thing. If she did type the password incorrectly by hitting the wrong letter twice there are only a handful of combinations to try anyway before you figure out the password. You could have also simply asked her to grab the device and type as she would normally and chances are that she would miss hit the exact same letters again as she did when originally entering the password.

    Posted via CB10
    Somehow my wife was able to restore her phone using BB Link after it wiped, and she didn't figure out the password (at least she didn't mention that to me). I don't know if the device didn't have a password after the wipe before she restored the backup. It is possible that it did but the restore (which didn't have a password) set it back to not having one. Others have indicated that a wipe didn't keep their password. I'm not willing to test this again on my wife's phone, but I would on mine if I had a Z10 yet.

    I don't know exactly how she mistyped her password. I found out all after-the-fact when I got home.

    To be clear, I'm not saying the security wipe is a problem per se, but rather that it can be a problem in certain non-theft situations, and that it'd be nice to either have an option or implement it a bit differently. Time-locking to prevent additional attempts seems reasonable (for example, it might have allowed my wife to relax a bit and try thinking about how maybe she might have mistyped it). Or, she could have contacted me during this lock-out period and I could have unlocked the device via BB Protect for her if such a feature were available (assuming I remembered her BB ID password). Believe it or not, things can be improved and BB's implementation isn't perfect. All I'm advocating here is a solution that works for everyone.
    05-22-13 11:10 AM
  14. xamdam's Avatar
    does that mean that people who don't know about the app won't be able to track their phone in such a case?
    ... oh an another redundant icon on the home page...

    I think I'm just more relaxed knowing that my data won't be available... I'm right in assuming that it is safe right [anyone know how safe BlackBerry is compared to the other phones btw in terms of being hacked?]?
    My sd card and device are encrypted too. I guess I'd rather risk my data being wiped after 10 attempts than anything else.

    The funny thing is the person who got my phone actually did not know how to answer the call when I called my phone! It was pretty hilarious maybe that is one of bb's security feature... deterence through ignorance.

    Doctor Who Channel C000C1253
    That's correct if they do not know about the app, then they won't know about tracking the device that's iphone for you.

    By the way if PPL are with ROGERS.. they have their OWN online Tracking Software which will allow you to track the Device, not bell or telus or any other service in Canada offers this.

    They also offer remote wiping and so forth too, again will not work if SIM is pulled or device is turned off.

    I am with Rogers.

    https://www.rogersphonefinder.com/how_it_works.html

    Blackberry is more safer then any mobile device in the market, without password thieves will never get your data... period.

    Even after a WIPE forensic software can not get a heck of lot back, maybe a telephone number, but on android and ios = iphone devices........ forensic can get a lot of info back and I mean a lot.
    05-22-13 11:20 AM
  15. LewLew23's Avatar
    You know what option WOULD be nice? If instead, after the 10th try of putting in a wrong password, before it wipes, it gives you 1 chance to put in your BB ID and password associated with the phone. Because if you at least know that, shouldn't it confirm that it is indeed your phone?
    05-22-13 11:23 AM
  16. dejanh's Avatar
    No wrong .......... I did a factory reset before loading up 10.1 OS and my device password was gone after the wipe. I just remember that as you posted this, so it is gone after a factory reset.

    I forget if it asks for the password before doing a wipe.

    Try it out and let me know as I forget now.

    This is what factory reset is, it means wipe it before you sell it for example..... no password, it is like NEW out of the box afterwards.
    *shakes head* I'll post screenshots or a video once the next leak comes out. Until then, feel free to think what you will.

    Posted via CB10
    05-22-13 11:27 AM
  17. unbreakablej's Avatar
    I think you can actually reset your password through logging in to blackberry protect or will that require your original password? Hmmm... but i guess the effect might be the same?

    Maybe we can have face recognition soon. It shouldn't be that hard!

    Doctor Who Channel C000C1253
    05-22-13 11:30 AM
  18. xamdam's Avatar
    You know what option WOULD be nice? If instead, after the 10th try of putting in a wrong password, before it wipes, it gives you 1 chance to put in your BB ID and password associated with the phone. Because if you at least know that, shouldn't it confirm that it is indeed your phone?
    Yeah I agree as who else would know this but the owner, unless they told someone, but after so many failed attempts on BBID login the ID will be banned or good, so a thief would do so and you not only lose device, but your BBID account as well.

    Not only this, but if you do login by BBID you can't change password unless you know original password.
    Last edited by xamdam; 05-22-13 at 11:43 AM.
    05-22-13 11:31 AM
  19. DaedalusIcarusHelios's Avatar
    I think you can actually reset your password through logging in to blackberry protect or will that require your original password? Hmmm... but i guess the effect might be the same?

    Maybe we can have face recognition soon. It shouldn't be that hard!

    Doctor Who Channel C000C1253
    There is a link to Lock Device which allows you to set a new password. I didn't see that blurb about setting a new password. So now I'm wondering if it does require the original password.
    05-22-13 11:43 AM
  20. 1st-smartberry's Avatar
    Today my wife had enabled a password on her Z10 and must have mistyped what she thought she set it to and ended up wiping her phone (I told her about the eye icon in the hashed password field so she knows she can see what she's putting in now). She's pretty pissed about how stupid such a feature is, since wiping the phone would just make it easier for thieves that just want the phone (not the data on it). She indicated that Apple does this better. She had a backup I made a few days ago, but she lost some photos and videos and wasted time getting things restored.

    After almost having my PlayBook wiped from a coworker trying to get into it (to mess with me), I have to agree that it is stupid, at least for the common consumer. Being a long-time BB user, I understand the original reason for it. The problem is that it makes no sense when not tied to a BES, and they could time-lock the device instead, or require an unlock through BB protect (after having it email the BBID about the incident). It just seems like there is a better way. Right now, my wife can't use a device password without the risk of accidentally wiping her device again. There should be an option to disable the security wipe or otherwise alter the behavior when there are failed password attempts.

    I hope BB gives more granular control on this. I'd love some kind of pattern lock too.
    I understand what you are saying about having options blackberry is known for options and this would be a great feature to just have it lock out for a determined time set by phone owner. I know
    People at my work will try to mess with me if I leave my phone around, they will try to hack my phone just for fun and I would be upset to loose all my information on my phone. It's a good possibility Blackberry will give this option to the phone users. Blackberry is just in it's beginning stages with this new operating system and in my own opinion, I believe it will take some time to customize this area.
    Last edited by 1st-smartberry; 05-22-13 at 12:07 PM.
    05-22-13 11:44 AM
  21. jj482's Avatar
    If it didn't wipe there's a chance of a brute force attack. Slim, but a chance

    Again, I'm a security stickler, this shouldn't be a choice.

    If we want to include choices in recovery that's cool

    I like the idea of an option to enter BBID credentials

    Though as some indicated you should have an option via BlackBerry Protect

    Posted via CB10 on my sweet Z10
    05-22-13 11:46 AM
  22. unbreakablej's Avatar
    Out of curiosity I logged in to see, if you choose to change device password you do have to enter your current password...

    Doctor Who Channel C000C1253
    05-22-13 11:49 AM
  23. jcarlos100's Avatar
    What good is a time lock when all you have to do is put an iphone into DFU mode and wipe it?!

    Your wife mis typed a password and its BlackBerrys fault?! Come on man... Own up to a mistake and leave it at that.

    These posts are so unnecessary... People are always looking to jump on BlackBerry for things that are clearly thier own fault.

    SMH...
    I agree with this lol

    Posted via CB10
    05-22-13 12:02 PM
  24. Chanlion's Avatar
    Whoa whoa, no need to point fingers. I understand the frustration you have but you do get 10 tries and BlackBerry seems to be business minded. You webmaster can choose to wipe your device whenever.
    But I do understand that they should have an option to lock the device for X amount of time for less corporate users.
    Security seems to be a primary focus.
    05-22-13 12:21 PM
  25. KenV54's Avatar
    Someone here posted earlier that a four digit PW wasn't secure because it was too easy to break using a program to run through passwords. I use a 4 digit PW which is imposible for me to forget and not repetitive or sequential numbers.

    It seems to me that on a BlackBerry with only ten attempts allowed and with the thief not even knowing where to start with the PW or how many numbers or letters it was, the chances of guessing it would be at best 4 in 10 thousand.

    Where am I wrong in my thinking on this?

    Posted via CB10
    05-22-13 12:22 PM
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