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  1. Saiga's Avatar
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    #26  

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    Good tip Bellfast! Will definitely prove to be useful knowledge to have for when you're in certain situations/environments.
  2. Masahiro's Avatar
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    #27  

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    Thanks for the tip!
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  3. clsaah's Avatar
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    #28  

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    A pretty good article comparing the camera's on the z10 vs. s3 vs. iphone 5.

    BlackBerry Z10 camera versus iPhone 5, Samsung Galaxy S3 | Dialed In - CNET Blogs
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  4. mikeo007's Avatar
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    #29  

    Default Amazing fix for Z10 low light pictures

    Again, for someone that's never used a camera phone with touchscreen focus, this is a helpful guide.

    But it's not improving low-light performance and it's not something that you can just "patch up".

    When you change the focus point to something darker or lighter, you're adjusting the exposure of the image. It happens with any auto-exposure camera.

    Take a look at these (terrible) photos from a lowly 2+ year old iPod. If the focal point is on the lighter area, the dark areas are dreadfully underexposed. If you focus on the dark areas, the light areas are extremely over exposed.

    Amazing fix for Z10 low light pictures-imageuploadedbytapatalk1360250545.249510.jpg
    Amazing fix for Z10 low light pictures-imageuploadedbytapatalk1360250555.105203.jpg

    There are even apps available (including Blackberry apps) that actually allow you to adjust focus separately from exposure, resulting in some really neat images.

    The reason this isn't going to fix low light performance is because in low light, you don't have all the spare light in the above images to actually illuminate whatever you're trying to take a picture of.

    So the camera needs to crank up the ISO, resulting in a brighter but noisier image.
    Last edited by mikeo007; 02-07-2013 at 10:34 AM.
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  5. Desktoper's Avatar
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    #30  

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    This appears to be similar to the spot metering that used to feature in some early 35mm SLR cameras. You would direct the focus of the camera to an area in the frame which represented the main interest for setting an exposure, then set the indicator to that exposure, then re-compose the frame and shoot with the preset exposure. For films with a narrow exposure range, this was critical to getting satisfactory results in high contrast lighting situations. It's comforting to see that this workaround is available with the Z10 pending possible corrective software updates. And thanks, OP, for bringing this to our attention.
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  6. SixStringMadness's Avatar
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    #31  

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    I'll be honest, the pix that are being considered "fixed" above are actually "blown out" or over exposed. (check the histograms on those images, you'll see)


    The dynamic range in these images would be difficult for a high end DSLR with no flash.

    What you're doing is called spot metering, and no camera has the ability to properly expose the above seen ranges of lighting with spot metering.

    If you want these pix to look right, use the flash, its there for a reason. The white walls/shades will be properly exposed, and the shadows should be "backfilled" by the flash.

    This is the proper way to shoot these shots. Expecting properly exposed images from the above conditions without any flash, with a phone camera (or DSLR) is expecting way too much.
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  7. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #32  

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    Quote Originally Posted by SixStringMadness View Post
    I'll be honest, the pix that are being considered "fixed" above are actually "blown out" or over exposed. (check the histograms on those images, you'll see)


    The dynamic range in these images would be difficult for a high end DSLR with no flash.

    What you're doing is called spot metering, and no camera has the ability to properly expose the above seen ranges of lighting with spot metering.

    If you want these pix to look right, use the flash, its there for a reason. The white walls/shades will be properly exposed, and the shadows should be "backfilled" by the flash.

    This is the proper way to shoot these shots. Expecting properly exposed images from the above conditions without any flash, with a phone camera (or DSLR) is expecting way too much.

    Oh I know, this was done for demonstration purposes.
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    #33  

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    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    Oh I know, this was done for demonstration purposes.


    Well, then I have to ask... why would you call it an "amazing fix"?
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  9. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #34  

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    Quote Originally Posted by SixStringMadness View Post
    Well, then I have to ask... why would you call it an "amazing fix"?
    Because some people were complaining about it, no other reason.
  10. emstardeluxe's Avatar
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    #35  

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    Quote Originally Posted by SixStringMadness View Post
    Well, then I have to ask... why would you call it an "amazing fix"?
    Probably because to the average non-photographer, his fix makes the pictures look better.
  11. mikeo007's Avatar
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    #36  

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    Quote Originally Posted by emstardeluxe View Post
    Probably because to the average non-photographer, his fix makes the pictures look better.
    But the pictures in question aren't low-light shots. The z10 doesn't have any trouble with these types of pictures where there's lots of ambient light.
    Case in point, the first picture with the desk actually looks better before the "fix" is applied.
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  12. ubizmo's Avatar
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    #37  

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    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    Why would you do that? You can drag and drop the focus point on either side, that's the beauty of it.
    To get a mid-point exposure. In your second sofa photo, the window blinds are overexposed.
  13. Double_J75's Avatar
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    #38  

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    Post of the year! Great stuff!
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #39  

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    Quote Originally Posted by ubizmo View Post
    To get a mid-point exposure. In your second sofa photo, the window blinds are overexposed.
    That was extreme example to accentuate the difference, all pictures were done in that manner, you can drag the focus and drop it to a closer shade with more subtile results or fixes. I don't understand why you have a problem with this? it's good news for Z10 owners. Can't you just leave it at that?


    Oops, sorry, I thought I was responding to Mike007, my bad!
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  15. SixStringMadness's Avatar
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    #40  

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    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    Because some people were complaining about it, no other reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by emstardeluxe View Post
    Probably because to the average non-photographer, his fix makes the pictures look better.


    Well, that's the point of my post. From a photographic standpoint, the pictures are worse due to the overexposure portions of the images.

    This is not a flaming, but it just doesn't make sense to call it a fix, when technically its made worse.

    Take Post #1
    The correct image is the one that you can see the plant in the upper left porting, and its clearly defined from the white wall. The other image, the wall is blown out, and the plant fades into the over exposed area. That's just wrong.

    Post #9
    This is borderline, could go either way. I would really want to see the histogram. (the true correct way to photograph something like that is with a whitebox)

    Post #14
    Just should never have been taken without a flash. The one considered "fixed" loses the definition of each vertical blind. When they blend into a white glow, its just wrong. No camera in the world could take the picture correctly exposed without a flash.


    Even the average non-photographer should be provided with accurate guidance.
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  16. emstardeluxe's Avatar
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    #41  

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeo007 View Post
    But the pictures in question aren't low-light shots. The z10 doesn't have any trouble with these types of pictures where there's lots of ambient light.
    Case in point, the first picture with the desk actually looks better before the "fix" is applied.
    I guess one can argue that dragging the focus at least gives you options when you take the shot and you can just keep the one that looks best to you.
  17. mikeo007's Avatar
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    #42  

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    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    That was extreme example to accentuate the difference, all pictures were done in that manner, you can drag the focus and drop it to a closer shade with more subtile results or fixes. I don't understand why you have a problem with this? it's good news for Z10 owners. Can't you just leave it at that?


    Oops, sorry, I thought I was responding to Mike007, my bad!
    I don't understand where you got the idea that I have a problem with this?
    I even stated that you've provided a helpful guide.

    The only issue I'm addressing is that you're being disingenuous by stating that this is a fix for low light photos. You're showing non low-light photos, over exposing them, and somehow inferring that this will fix low light photos.
  18. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #43  

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeo007 View Post
    I don't understand where you got the idea that I have a problem with this?
    I even stated that you've provided a helpful guide.

    The only issue I'm addressing is that you're being disingenuous by stating that this is a fix for low light photos. You're showing non low-light photos, over exposing them, and somehow inferring that this will fix low light photos.

    What is low light to you? Dark? At what point do you start using the flash? Don't forget the Z10 also had a night mode for the so called low lights.
  19. mikeo007's Avatar
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    #44  

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    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    What is low light to you? Dark? At what point do you start using the flash? Don't forget the Z10 also had a night mode for the so called low lights.
    Well I certainly wouldn't consider a room flooded with natural light to be a low-light condition.
    Low light to me would be something dimly illuminated with only artificial light, like a church or hall.
    Or a bedroom or den illuminated by lamps.

    But in the end, it doesn't really matter what your definition of low light is.
    In your above examples, the Z10 did not struggle with the lighting conditions at all even before you adjusted the exposure. So the light wasn't low enough to present a problem in the first place.
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  20. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #45  

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeo007 View Post
    Well I certainly wouldn't consider a room flooded with natural light to be a low-light condition.
    Low light to me would be something dimly illuminated with only artificial light, like a church or hall.
    Or a bedroom or den illuminated by lamps.

    But in the end, it doesn't really matter what your definition of low light is.
    In your above examples, the Z10 did not struggle with the lighting conditions at all even before you adjusted the exposure. So the light wasn't low enough to present a problem in the first place.


    Aaa maybe it appeared to you that the room was flooded with light, Ón reality it was dark enough for the flash to kick in, that's why I had to turn it off.
  21. mikeo007's Avatar
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    #46  

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    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    Aaa maybe it appeared to you that the room was flooded with light, Ón reality it was dark enough for the flash to kick in, that's why I had to turn it off.
    I'm not there, so I can't comment on how bright your room is. But if the picture of the blinds was taken around the same time, then I have to assume that the sun is at least up.
    Judging by the photos before the exposure adjustment, there is more than enough light for a good photo. Again, the conditions that you are presenting are not the conditions where the Z10 struggles. Please don't use the "autoflash" as a way of judging room brightness either...
  22. SixStringMadness's Avatar
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    #47  

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    A real "Low Light" condition would be a night club/bar type scene.

    A flash shouldn't always be thought of a used for illuminating a subject. It also "backfills", which is to mean in fills in shadowed areas, usually closest to the camera.

    An idea use for this would be outdoors, bright sunny day, (yes, we're going to use a flash at high noon) with the sun high in the sky. While your eyes may not notice, your nose and other facial features will cast shadows on your face. Backfilling this with the cameras flash will result in an image without the shadows. Because a shadow is much more defined and obvious in a picture than in real life.

    The flash is a useful tool, don't dismiss its need as simply for "use it in a dark room" scenario.

    All those pictures you took would have benefited from a flash.
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  23. Dr.Deebs's Avatar
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    #48  

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    Mike is right. This is just telling the camera where to take the exposure reading from. Still, it is a great tip, and a good way for people to understand how the camera works. For a low light test, just make sure the light is consistent throughout the frame - this will give you a better idea of how the Z10 exposes, focuses, and handles high iso (and resulting noise) in dim light.
    I am curious how the "remove noise" feature works. Perhaps someone can comment on that.
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  24. emstardeluxe's Avatar
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    #49  

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    Quote Originally Posted by SixStringMadness View Post
    An idea use for this would be outdoors, bright sunny day, (yes, we're going to use a flash at high noon) with the sun high in the sky. While your eyes may not notice, your nose a other facial features will cast shadows on your face. Backfilling this with the cameras flash will result in an image without the shadows. Because a shadow is much more defined and obvious in a picture than in real life.
    You learn something new every day... thanks!
  25. duckJAI's Avatar
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    #50  

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    i do this all the time with my iphone4s.

    this should be posted on the front page so people learn how to take pictures with their cell phones the PROPER way under lowlight.

    however, this only works when there is a source of light. if the entire picture has equal darkness, then there will be no change in quality.
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