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  1. canderson85's Avatar
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    Default Active sync and WIFI issue

    I have an issue with my home WIFI(the one I've noticed) and my z10. It's almost as if it's timing out. When I first connect, my email (outlook.com via active sync) works instantly. But give it an hour or so the emails start becoming very delayed. Sometimes even hours late I've noticed. If I disconnect my WIFI. The emails pending will come in instantly over 3g. Even disconnecting and reconnecting to WIFI fixes it. While the delay is an issue I am able to browse the Internet and have no other issues other then my email.


    My phone has been through a factory restore over the notification issue.


    Posted via CB10
  2. canderson85's Avatar
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    Nobody?



    Posted via CB10
  3. Serge Tchemchit's Avatar
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    Hi canderson85,

    I have almost the same or even worse problem. We have two WiFi networks in my office. The first one is connected directly to Internet. Blackberry Z10 works great with it. Second WiFi network connected through the Checkpoint firewall. BB doesn't send/receive emails at all on this network. I have two email account on my BB gmail.com and corporate email, both are connected as ActiveSync accounts. Internet works fine on both networks.
    I'm working around this problem now. We have opened all necessary ports on the firewall but email still doesn't work.
    Do not know what else I can do to make it work.
  4. jamesbondOO7's Avatar
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    I have that problem in one of our offices. Annoying but I can live with it


    Posted via CB10 on my Z10
    8800>9000>9700>9900>Z10>Q10

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  5. Markus Schulz's Avatar
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    @Serge that seems to be more an issue with the checkpoint than with the WiFi.

    Maybe configuration problem with the proxy on the checkpoint or IPS/IDS, application controlled (if available). If a proxy is enabled, check him dealing with the SSL-certs.

    Posted via CB with my Z10
  6. Serge Tchemchit's Avatar
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    It looks like I know the reason and solution.
    In my case, the WiFi network that has issues with ActiveSync located in the same subnet as our BESX server.
    I've given the IP address from another subnet and voila - ActiveSync works.
  7. Omnitech's Avatar
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    The "quasi-push" functionality that works over the internet, requires maintaining an open TCP/IP socket or communication channel for the server infrastructure to send notifications back to the client. (your phone)

    The reason that is is because typically firewalls prevent random hosts from communicating to random clients behind firewalls, the connection has to be initiated from the client in some way, and then in this case, left open so the server infrastructure can still send back data over that open connection when an update happens.

    The problem is that many firewalls and routers will close an open socket if it stays open more than 3-30 minutes. If that happens, "instant" notifications may be blocked. However you should still be able to manually initiate an update or sync.

    If that problem is afflicting you then the easiest way to verify it is to turn off WiFi and only use your carrier data network, which usually is configured to allow such traffic to pass. The fact that canderson85 saw an immediate mitigation of the problem when turning off WiFi is pretty good proof that this is what is happening.

    Unfortunately many home network devices cannot properly handle that traffic no matter what you do, they simply cannot be configured to maintain an open TCP socket for that length of time.

    If people want to post here with what router and/or firewall brand/model they are using, I may be able to find out if yours can be so configured. No guarantees.

    For background material, the following is a detailed and technical discussion I had with a Blackberry user here, troubleshooting this issue with his home network:

    E-mail Push (EAS / IMAP IDLE) problems connected via WIFI
  8. Serge Tchemchit's Avatar
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    I should have mentioned this before - the problem affects only Blackberry phones. Any other iphones and androids work well. So there is no reason to talk about firewall or wifi misconfiguration
  9. Omnitech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serge Tchemchit View Post
    I should have mentioned this before - the problem affects only Blackberry phones. Any other iphones and androids work well. So there is no reason to talk about firewall or wifi misconfiguration

    Honestly I'm confused if you're referring to the original poster's situation or your own situation.

    I don't see enough details here to ascertain what the specific issue is with your setup, which I thought you had resolved. For example, you can't just "give the IP address from another subnet" to a device which is not on that subnet and expect things to work. If it does, there is something else fishy going on. Perhaps a VPN is involved, for example. There are all sorts of missing network details there that probably explain what is going on if we knew what those details were.
  10. Serge Tchemchit's Avatar
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    Of cource, I skipped details. If you need them, here they are.

    We have two internet connections (two ISPs). The first connection is our default gateway, all services, including BESX server go through it. When 'problematic' WiFi is connected to the first ISP (no matter if it use the same external IP as BESX or any other from the pool) my Blackberry ActiveSync accounts do not work at all.

    When I switch it to the second ISP all ActiveSync issues disapearing - everytihing works.

    But there are some points for thinking. Today I've decided to run more tests. I've switched all network (including BESX and WiFi) to the second ISP and here is a miracle - my Blackberry works fine. So coexistence of BESX and WiFi on the same connection is not a problem. Probably my first ISP drops some traffic from/to the Blackberry.

    When I switched back to the first connection my Blackberry started to recieve emails but it can't send. WTF???

    So I continue to explore this issue...
    Last edited by Serge Tchemchit; 04-02-2013 at 03:34 AM.
  11. Omnitech's Avatar
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    The right way to be dual-homed is to use an intelligent routing protocol on the gateway like BGP and let the gateway router make the packet routing decisions. But that also typically requires services and skills and costs beyond the reach of anyone but pretty large organizations.

    If you're not doing that, there are various things that can happen that can mess up packet routing if you have some hosts configured on one network and some hosts configured on another. I'm guessing that something like that is going on there. Most likely some sort of ARP issue or something.
  12. Serge Tchemchit's Avatar
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    We are dual-homed, but we don't use BGP or any else routing protocol, because this is too expensive and we don't need such functionality. We simply use active/passive mode with automatically failover.

    So, why it happens only with the Blackberry phone? All others smartphones and tablets work fine.
    I think you assumption about routing or ARP issues is mistakenly.
  13. Omnitech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serge Tchemchit View Post
    We are dual-homed, but we don't use BGP or any else routing protocol, because this is too expensive and we don't need such functionality. We simply use active/passive mode with automatically failover.

    So, why it happens only with the Blackberry phone? All others smartphones and tablets work fine.
    I think you assumption about routing or ARP issues is mistakenly.
    It's hard to say why, but the fact that it works when switching subnets or segments suggests a network issue of some kind. I would guess something about the router or firewall configuration. Pity you can't manually configure the IP parameters on the device, that would help the troubleshooting. It does have a ping and traceroute feature though, that might shed some light.
  14. Serge Tchemchit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omnitech View Post
    Pity you can't manually configure the IP parameters on the device, that would help the troubleshooting. It does have a ping and traceroute feature though, that might shed some light.
    Yes, this is really pity. I would like to have ability to configure device more precisely and run detailed diagnostics on the BB.
  15. neilpaolo's Avatar
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    Just to contribute my findings and experience on ActiveSync delay issues. We also have issues with ActiveSync delays. Contacts aren't being sync'ed on the device. E-mail messages not syncing in time. We even have instances that organizer data isn't being received anymore (e-mail can be sent) so I'm forced to re-activate user on the Z10. We're leaning more that it's something to do with the device firmware on the Z10. They had some fixes introduced on their latest firmware that's concerning the e-mail delay/failure on z10s thru ActiveSync. What we notice is that we notice the delay when we're in Wifi connection. So for now, we have setup our Z10s without any wifi profile for now as we suspect the wifi connections is adversely affecting the ActiveSync operation on the Z10.
  16. GenghisKhent's Avatar
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    I have a similar problem. No EAS push on Z10 when on WiFi on work network if going through firewall appliance (FortiGate). However,

    1. Z10 has no problem if I have WiFi access point bypass firewall appliance.
    2. Galaxy Note 2 has no such problem even if WiFi goes through firewall appliance.
    3. Z10 also has no problem on other WiFi networks (home, college) which don't use the FortiGate.

    I'm coordinating with the Fortinet folks re a solution and will update here.
    Jeffrey Kent aka Genghis Khent
    My blog: Mobile Barbarian
  17. Omnitech's Avatar
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    To the last 2 commenters:

    Please see the link I posted in an earlier comment.

    The USUAL reason for email delays with either ActiveSync or IMAP IDLE is low-end or poorly-configured routers/firewalls/NAT devices.

    If it works fine via the carrier/cellular network but not via WiFi, it is almost GUARANTEED that that is your problem.

    Why it works on ie a Samsung device? If I were to hazard a guess, I'd guess that they may be polling the server periodically to keep the TCP socket open on devices that are trying to aggressively close it. The downside of that would be higher battery usage.
  18. Kris Simundson's Avatar
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    I find that when I'm at home I have issues as well, seems every couple of hours I have to turn off and on my wifi on the Z10. I figure its my new internet connection (cable/internet one box deal) thats causing this. As much as I don't want the extra cables I almost feel like hard wiring in my old router which is probably 100x better than this integrated junk i've been given, just so I don't have network drops.

    The one wierd point to this is that at times my laptop will drop wireless signal, my 360 never drops since its hard wired and even my gf's iPhone4 and iPad doesn't drop when on wireless. It's a wierd world lol
  19. GenghisKhent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omnitech View Post
    ...

    The USUAL reason for email delays with either ActiveSync or IMAP IDLE is low-end or poorly-configured routers/firewalls/NAT devices.

    If it works fine via the carrier/cellular network but not via WiFi, it is almost GUARANTEED that that is your problem.

    Why it works on ie a Samsung device? If I were to hazard a guess, I'd guess that they may be polling the server periodically to keep the TCP socket open on devices that are trying to aggressively close it. The downside of that would be higher battery usage.
    Makes sense, but one question.

    When on WiFi, not even refresh displays the no-show messages which I know are there, and display as soon as I turn off WiFi. Is that consistent with the issue you raise, or does it indicate another problem?

    Similarly, when on Account setup, on WiFi fails on last step, can't contact the server. But as soon as I turn off WiFi, account setup completes.
    Jeffrey Kent aka Genghis Khent
    My blog: Mobile Barbarian
  20. Omnitech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenghisKhent View Post
    Makes sense, but one question.

    When on WiFi, not even refresh displays the no-show messages which I know are there, and display as soon as I turn off WiFi. Is that consistent with the issue you raise, or does it indicate another problem?

    Similarly, when on Account setup, on WiFi fails on last step, can't contact the server. But as soon as I turn off WiFi, account setup completes.

    The usual reason that email notifications take longer on WiFi compared to carrier data link is because as mentioned previously, "internet push" protocols typically require a long-lived open TCP socket, and many home network devices do not support that, or are not configured properly.

    If a manual refresh does not show the messages, it could be that something in your network infrastructure is blocking some other aspect of the EAS or IMAP communication, or some lousy proxy server is corrupting the traffic.

    Take a look at the thread I linked earlier, we went through extensive troubleshooting of this issue as it pertains to IMAP. I do believe that he was able to get the new message notifications in most cases by using manual refresh even when the configuration was unfriendly to IMAP IDLE in general, but I don't recall specifically. There may be some cases where the Z10 ignores an explicit refresh, not sure.

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