Bought phone off Craigslist. Turns out it is reported Lost/Stolen

First off, sorry that you're having to go through this. Take something from the experience and be more careful next time.

It is possible that the person who sold you the phone stole it and it's also possible that he reported it stolen after selling it to you.

For those saying that he has nothing to gain from reporting it stolen after selling it, you're wrong. Once he has the $250 from the transaction, he could report it stolen and file an insurance claim. That would allow the seller to obtain a replacement phone with a small deductible payment and pocket the rest.

As far as what you should do, go file a police report. Make print-outs of the CL ad and the emails.

You may not get your money back but you also wouldn't be liable for possession of stolen property. As others have stated, you will not get into trouble for reporting it but you could if you fail to do so.

Again, learn from this experience. You can never be too careful when dealing with people. Always meet in a public place, a carrier's store is preferable for phones, bring a friend if possible, and try to keep a paper trail for your records.

Good luck.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Myself, I will never pay cash for any used item, cell phone or not. I'll gladly pay you with a money order, cashiers check, or I'll even stand in front of the seller and transfer funds paypal my account to theirs , but you aren't selling me anything "cash only." I see cash only and I keep on reading the classifieds or what have ya. I want some kind of traceable transaction. Anyone unwilling to deal under thoe terms is deemed sketchy at best to me and I don't need what they have to sell that badly.

Originally Posted by Tifoso

You're going to have to eat the $250. Calling the police won't help and may even get you in trouble since you have no proof that you purchased this particular device from someone and didn't steal it yourself.

The op stated he has email, a Craig’s list ad and phone records between him and the other guy. So by you even suggesting that if he reports it that there is a chance he could end up in trouble for possession of stolen property only says that you really don’t know much about police work. If he has a Craig’s list ad, emails and phone call logs with this person, those are called leads. I’m not sure where you are from but in the real world leads are followed up on. In many major cities, police departments have dedicated detective squads that handle crimes related to internet dealings and internet fraud. They trace phone numbers. The trace email ip addresses. They make an effort and follow leads unlike you who would say sorry pal, there’s nothing I can do.

Originally Posted by Tifoso

Are you a cop, lawyer or judge? Stick to medicine and leave the legal stuff to those of us that are actually in the profession.

Originally Posted by Tifoso

I think nearly 20 years in law enforcement gives me the merit to post what I did.

So 20 years as a cop, lawyer or judge means you can discourage what the majority of us feel is the right thing to do?

Originally Posted by Tifoso

The OP is never getting his money back. It's just not going to happen. Sorry, but that's just the way it goes sometimes.

You say never going to happen but then say sometimes, contradicting yourself. In most cases like this the vic does not recover the monetary damages but it does happen. To say never is kind of cold so I’m leaning towards you being a lawyer.

Originally Posted by Tifoso

If the phone was stolen, what are the odds that this guy used his real name, email and phone# ?

A statement like that says you feel its not even worth investigating and that’s sad cause there are many, many stupid criminals out there..

Originally Posted by Tifoso

And is the possibilty that the OP could be accused of theft worth the attempt to recover the $250 that I already said he would never get back? In my mind it isn't.

Wow, again the possibility of being accused of theft when he has proof that he is a victim? And again your so positive there cant and wont be a happy ending. At this point its not about recovering 250, its about serving justice to a guy that first possible stole a phone from one person, then sold it to another stealing his 250. I thought you were in law enforcement? You seem to miss the facts

Originally Posted by Tifoso

Let it be reminder to be careful who you do business with.

Let this be a reminder to be careful who we receive legal advice from.

Originally Posted by Tifoso

For the most part, the OP likely wouldn't be liable for unknowingly buying stolen goods. But this isn't guaranteed and since the probability of him getting a refund is nil, why take the risk?

Why take what risk? Doing the right thing and coming forward with a stolen/lost item? How is that a risk? What’s a risk is for him to listen to you and not report it and take the chance that someone at us cellular logged his number on caller id and called the police themselves… And for the record, you keep treating it like its a flat out stolen phone. Ever think it may actually have just been reported lost?


The right thing and the only thing to do is to print out all your emails with the header information, print out the Craig’s list ad with the url on it, and bring your phone records showing communication between you and the bad guy to the police department. You will lose the phone right there as it will become evidence. The phone is lost or stolen and there’s not really anything you can do with it at this point.


For anyone wanting to buy something you can always go to this site from your library or something other than your home depending on the item, and check a national database to find out if it is been reported stolen.

Dude man sorry to hear that happened to you. Definitely have it reported to the cops. And to the law enforcement officer,...I don't know how they do things in ur state, but the way u even responded definitely does not sound like well aware of the codes. Ya I know what I'm talking about because my fianc�s dad is a cop and was just talking to him about it. He actually read ur post and said "I think its just a blackberry user Posing to be a cop to sound as if he knows what he's talking about." Lolol...and laughed at Wiz4rds comment as he said it was true why some of the codes are violated and do to the states what they are now...Again to the OP, sorry this happened to you, do follow up on this thread and let us know how the report to the cops went.

You can try calling the police but in all honesty it probably wouldn't turn into anything. As untactful as Tifoso was he does have a point. You don't know if that number doesn't go to a prepaid throw away phone. You can make as many e-mail accounts as you want without using any real information. I can tell each person I meet a different name. But there is no harm in reporting it to the police incase this is something that is happening a lot in your area.

The carrier unfortunately will not help you. There is nothing they can do to take it off the list of lost or stolen.

Sorry for your loss. That's why I always activate the phone before any money is given and we always meet at the sprint store. No time for the funny business!

These people have given you what I consider good advice. It seems prudent to:

1) Report this to the police. At worst, it would be a waste of time. At best, they might be able to trace the perp, especially if he was careless by registering the phone under his legitimate name, or if he was the real owner calling it in as stolen. You may not neccesarily get your money back, but they could rattle him enough not to try it again on someone else.

2) You can still use the phone on GSM carriers, as someone else pointed out. It may already be unlocked, especially if it was a Sprint phone. If not, there are places online wherein you may purchase an unlock code. The phone would also be capable of use internationally, especially in Europe, where most carriers are GSM with 3G. GSM carriers in the US include At&t and T-Mobile. None of this, of course, negates the fact that it is a stolen phone. But if you did in fact purchase the phone on Craigslist for $250, it would be a cruel and insensitive individual who would suggest that you should not try to make the best of a bad deal. Not using the phone will not reunite it with its former owner, and in any case, you should preserve all your communications with the perp which tend to show that you did purchase the phone, albeit from a shady character.

3) This is an unorthodox idea, but what if you were to attempt to return the phone to the service carrier that issued it? Call them, describe your circumstances, and mail them all the proof you have, i.e. e-mails from the perp, the listing on Craigslist and his phone number. Then ask them if they would either give you a new phone or subsidize your purchase of one if you opened an account with them. They might choose to help you out, after all, you've recovered a missing phone, and they've acquired a new customer. Rather than losing, they would actually be gaining. Of course, they are under no obligation to offer you a deal, but you might be surprised at how amenable reps can be if you handle a stressful situation in a mature and enterprising way.

In closing, let me reiterate what others have said: there is absolutely no way that you can get in legal trouble for reporting this transaction to the police, unless you were culpable in some way. If, in truth and honesty, you did not know/suspect that the device was stolen, and you did not ignore signs that a reasonable person would take as forewarning that an illegal transaction had occurred and was about to occur, you cannot be held liable. I am not sure which side of law enforcement that Tifoso is on, but I am a lawyer. The most likely crime you would be charged with is receiving stolen goods. To be charged with receiving stolen goods, there is a mens rea element. In lay man's terms, you must have knowledge; in this case, knowledge that the phone you were receiving was stolen. Where no such knowledge existed, you cannot be held liable. Under federal law, it is a crime as contemplated by 18 U.S.C. � 2315 to knowingly receive, conceal, or dispose of stolen property with a value of at least $5,000 that is part of interstate commerce (i.e., has been transported across state lines). For federal law to be involved, 1) You must have received or concealed or stored or disposed of items of stolen property. 2) The item must have been moving as, or must have constituted a part of, interstate commerce. 3) The item must have a value in excess of $5,000. 4) You must have acted knowingly and willfully.

As you can see, federa law would not apply in this case, anyways, because the amount involved is less than $5000. We can't be sure whether the phone was stolen in another state, but that's immaterial given your lack of knowledge and the small amount involved. I don't know what state you are in, but states usually have statutes and case law dictating their own version of laws against receiving stolen property. Most of them are pretty similar to the federal law that we just discussed, minus the interstate commerce requirement, and the $5000 minimum requirement. As you can see, in any event, you will not be held liable either by state or federal law if you are missing the mens rea element, i.e. if you did not knowingly, purposefully, or willfully receive the stolen property. I hope this puts the issue at rest.

Sorry dude, but you learned **** the hard way. Meet up with someone from CL for a purchase? Make the meet place at a crowded area like the mall or a cafe, and if you like bring a tough friend or two with you and have them sit at a distance to watch you. This must have been your first purchase from craigslist am i right?

Anyway as far as reporting stuff goes, i think another possibility was that the person who sold you the phone might be the account holder--maybe he/she called his phone Co. and asked for a replacement phone and never returned his original phone so that he could report one of the phones stolen, therefore allowing him to keep one of the phones to make a quick buck, or hundred bucks in this case =P. Anywho that's just my theory, and if that serves correct I'd suggest you tell the phone carrier your story and ask them to check the esn, imeid, hex, wahtever number whether or not the account holder of that phone asked for a replacement and then went on to report a lost/stolen phone.

good luck. And like its been said in the previous posts. Take this as a lesson learned. We all got scammed at some point in our lives, be more vigilant next tiem

Keep us posted! Loads of good information here... You just may be able to help out some other users!

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Like others have said...You learned the hard way.

My advice about buying a BB off Craigslist...Meet the seller at your provider's store (i.e. Verizon, AT&T, etc.). If it's a BB with a valid PIN, ESN, etc. then the seller shouldn't have anything to hide and should understand. The employee can activate the phone, give you the thumbs up, and then the seller can have their money. It's a little less convenient for the seller, but when you're dropping $250 on a Tour, you need to CYA.

Just my $0.02

Sorry to hear this man. Hope it works out for you some how.

Originally Posted by Cnug726

Make the meet place at a crowded area like the mall or a cafe, and if you like bring a tough friend or two with you and have them sit at a distance to watch you. This must have been your first purchase from craigslist am i right?

That would have made no difference in his situation other than having a witness and added security. Its always a good idea not be alone and to have someone know where your going and details about the whole thing but in this case he could have brought 10 people with him, but the phone is still lost/stolen.

When buying a cellphone its a very good idea to meet at the service provider for 2 reasons. First they will witness the transaction, and they will tell you right there if its a stolen phone and most every cell phone has surveillance cameras so they would at least have a picture of the guy that was actually in possession of the stolen phone. If a person will not meet under these terms than its safe to say they are trying to sell you a stolen phone. You could also ask for a pic of the phones info and call the provider yourself but there is nothing stopping the guy from selling to you and then reporting it stolen. Its a tough one.

I did the same thing as you... Bought phone off of craigs list 220 dollars. I actually called Verizon before i bought the phone and they told me the ESN was clean.
Because of the re-assurance of the clean ESN i was with my guard down. So when i went to meet this lady i didnt pay attention to her car license plate or what kind of car she even got out of.
I too had the emails and her phone number for her. I reported it to the police and turned over all our emails, her phone number and possible address i came up with for her. The police called back and said they were going to look into it but all the work it would take for a misdameanor offense, chances are there might not be much that would come out of it. and 6 months later and I have yet to hear from them.

I decided to annoy the **** out of this lady though... I went on phone gangster and called her from all kinds of random numbers. Then it was great I called her number from her own number and it went to her voicemail and right in. So i was able to go through her recent messages. I got them phone numbers and prank called them from her phone number. Then i changed her voicemail password and out going message. It didnt get my 220 dollars back but it made me feel good for a minute.

reported this and all the info i could to the police but i have a feeling like the guy above said, nothing is going to happen. is there any way i can just change the serial number? i've been trying to contact him and of course he is ignoring the emails.

to everyone saying what the "right thing to do" would be, i dont see any of you mentioning returning the stolen property to the police so the rightful owner can have their property back, its not their fault you paid for stolen merchandise... bet everyone won't be so supportive of that idea though lol, people just like to play good guy

Wow...the amount of bickering on here is ridiculous! Grow up!

The OP is probably never going to get his money back, as the police (even if they do investigate) won't have the means to trace down an IP for the theifs email address, and if they do, they probably still won't get far. Its not that simple anymore these days.

This is a hard lesson learnt. I'm sorry this has happened to you. EVERYONE herre should take note of this one simple fact: If you're going to buy a phone on CL, make sure to meet the person at the carriers retail store. If you cannot do this, when you get the phone in-hand, call the carrier CS and run the ESN with the seller still there.

If the seller is not willing to meet you at the carrier retail store, or give you the ESN, or let you call the carrier and run the ESN in front of him, then something is wrong with it. Its that simple.

Again sorry this happened to you - but you need to smarten up! Only communicating through email? That woulda been my first foul-tip.

I hope that your local police have the ability to trace the IP address of those emails you received - but idk if that can be done without a court order...not a legal expert. If they can, it may help you out...if not, take matters into your own hand and go to facebook, myspace, twitter, etc and plug in the email address he used to communicate with you into those sites - you may just find his facebook/myspace page. Believe it or not but some people ARE that dumb. Its worth a shot anyway. From there, you may have some recourse.

Good luck!

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

+1 for mentioning this, btw...I forgot to add that very valid point.

Originally Posted by blayz

to everyone saying what the "right thing to do" would be, i dont see any of you mentioning returning the stolen property to the police so the rightful owner can have their property back, its not their fault you paid for stolen merchandise... bet everyone won't be so supportive of that idea though lol, people just like to play good guy

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

People can be so cruel man...sorry to hear about the lost..it is sad that u had to give ur hard earned money to someone that stiff armed u

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

That just really sucks :(

Bummer, bummer.

I am attempting to sell a PSP on eBay and craigslist. A lot of scams and fakes out there. If there is any nonsense about meeting somewhere strange or mailing to another country or even providing a shipping number before payment is all shady info.

I can feel for you. Sometimes your not thinking and just hope people aren't that cruel but lesson learned.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

There's just some things you don't buy off of Craigslist/Ebay...

And unfortunately, you bought one of them.

You're out the 250...

Try again Mr. Noodle...Try again.


Dm

Originally Posted by Cnug726

Sorry dude, but you learned sh*t the hard way. Meet up with someone from CL for a purchase? Make the meet place at a crowded area like the mall or a cafe, and if you like bring a tough friend or two with you and have them sit at a distance to watch you. This must have been your first purchase from craigslist am i right?

Anyway as far as reporting stuff goes, i think another possibility was that the person who sold you the phone might be the account holder--maybe he/she called his phone Co. and asked for a replacement phone and never returned his original phone so that he could report one of the phones stolen, therefore allowing him to keep one of the phones to make a quick buck, or hundred bucks in this case =P. Anywho that's just my theory, and if that serves correct I'd suggest you tell the phone carrier your story and ask them to check the esn, imeid, hex, wahtever number whether or not the account holder of that phone asked for a replacement and then went on to report a lost/stolen phone.

good luck. And like its been said in the previous posts. Take this as a lesson learned. We all got scammed at some point in our lives, be more vigilant next tiem

If it were me I'd def try this out. I'd call the insurance provider of the phone and talk to a manager or something. You might be able to find out when the phone was reported lost/stolen. Don't know where this would get you but its worth a shot.

Last few posts were deleted. Lets not promote fraud folks. :( CBer's are better than that!

Y its unbelievable how much scams are on cl. I've responded to at least 6 ads saying y i'll buy but meet me at the sprint store! Guess what, no response....

Also Im noticing they're selling phones on ebay with "BAD ESN"...who da **** buys these? and the thieves have the ballz to list the bad ESN on ebay...Ive been checking ebay with bad esn's hoping to find my stolen Tour...actually i don't care about the phone I just want these punks to get busted.

I sold an 8330 a month or so ago. I switched it to a tour, and I sold it to someone that came to me at my business. (never meet on a bridge). He hit *228 and something else, and then he gave me the money. He said he does that to ensure the esn is good. I guess if i was ****, I could have cancelled it afterwards.

Does anyone know how to check the esn right from an inactive phone like that?