[LuvMyBB]

These forums, by their very nature, become sounding boards for complaints. Yes, many are legit, and most of us are happy to help. Yet I contend that many are people who are OCD, natural complainers/malcontents, "me-too" people, or posers. These phemonema are not limited to CB...we can see the same thing on most other tech forums.

Against this backdrop, one wonders how prevailing these issues truly are. The myriad problem threads are in no way a statistically valid "sample". But we often hear the old "where there's smoke..." axiom. So, is there any hard data out there wrt failure or return rates, and how they compare to similar devices?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[trjnberry]

These forums, by their very nature, become sounding boards for complaints. Yes, many are legit, and most of us are happy to help. . Yet I contend that many are people who are OCD, natural complainers/malcontents, "me-too" people, or posers. This phemonema is not limited to CB...we can see the same thing on most other tech forums.

Against this backdrop, one wonders how prevailing these issues truly are. The myriad problem-threads are in no way a statistically valid "sample". But we often hear the old "where there's smoke..." axiom. So, is there any hard data out there wrt failure or return rates, and how they compare to similar devices?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Please allow me to venture a perspective here. I am fresh off blasting my favorite CB Idol to the gutter for the ultimate choke in the finale, but who knows, maybe he'll pull it out. Back to the topic... My brother has an iPhone. He works in the same industry as me, real estate. His wife is a former BlackBerry user, now using Iphone, working in residency to become a doctor. Both find the iPhone very useful in their business work, more so than a BlackBerry. My brother comes up on his contract renewal and decides to check out the Android. Didn't impress him at all. He tells me he is content with the iPhone. Loves the device. Does what he needs it to do. Neither cares that the BB does business use better than iPhone. Neither cares that Android is supposedly way better than an Iphone.

My brother is not a member of CrackBerry or any other tech forum out there. He is a typical smartphone customer. He bought what appealed to him and stayed with it because it did what he needed it to do. Had he been on CrackBerry, he would have tossed that iPhone so far into the ocean and rushed down to the store and hooked up an Android, if he wanted to remain on a touch screen. My point here is that we at CrackBerry are fanatic about our phones and the world of smartphones. We don't want a device that just does what we need it to do. We want the latest and the greatest, and we want - no we demand - that it be a BlackBerry. When the next BlackBerry that comes along is not that latest and greatest, then we complain as loud and often as we can. It is the life of a CrackBerrian.

The average smartphone user can careless whether a BlackBerry or an Android is a better device. They buy what works for them. If they love Android, they buy Google. If they love the iPhone, they buy Apple. If they love the BB, they buy RIM. But usually, they buy the best available smartphone on their carrier that does what they need it to do. It's only people like us, here on CrackBerry, that got to make a mountain of mole hill because we expect more.

[mjixxx]

Right on brother!!!

[tedzone]

trjnberry, luvmubb....,. you're BOTH bang on.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[donnation]

Its for business not for fun. You can watch HD movies with the Evo or the Droid X or you may enjoy a retinal blah blah with your without-the-case-not-working iPhone 4. But you wont have the e-mail connectivity and the security of the BlackBerry.

Im proud to have a torch and I wont be returning it any time soon...

So wrong. RIM is trying to appeal to the consumer market, they just can't do it with the slop they've been releasing.

[dchawk81]

Haha @ "its for business not for fun"

What a load of apologist rubbish. I mean, it's true because RIM is stuck in suits, but it doesn't have to be that way. They just need to lighten up a little and get some innovation going. The fact that they're not that much fun is why a lot of folks are ditching them. I like my 'Berry for it's communications, but sheesh if I'm bored (like waiting in an airport or on a plane, headed somewhere to do more business perhaps) it doesn't have many options for entertainment. I shouldn't need to add another line just to stuff a "fun device" in the other pocket.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[bellero]

Have any of you seen the Torch commercials? "Where business meets fun" is the tagline. So YES RIM is targetting consumers with the Torch. They want both business users and consumers with this one. You can't say that BBs arnt meant to be entertainment devices anymore when that's exactly what they are being marketed as.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[JasW]

Well good points out there.

In my opinion I think people are judging in a very cruel what kind of a phone the Torch is. I previously owned 3 Curves, one being the newer model, 2 bolds (9000 and 9700) and the black one before bold came out. 3 Days ago I switched to the Torch. And Ive used android and iphone models before. As a person who lives by email and works by email I lasted only a week with the iphone when I switched to it from a bberry just to try it our and came back in a flash. But there are many things I like about the iphone. 3 days ago in the morning I was happily and proudly using my 9700 white and then a friend told me some Torches came in (I live in Istanbul where the Torch is a long way from being sold for a while) I went over to the store and I just bought it. I didn't think a minute. Why? Because I trust RIM.

Ive been using the phone ever since. Has the phone failed my trust? No. Yes the screen is crap yes it could have been better but remember: this is not a tech-toy; its a Blackberry. Its for business not for fun. You can watch HD movies with the Evo or the Droid X or you may enjoy a retinal blah blah with your without-the-case-not-working iPhone 4. But you wont have the e-mail connectivity and the security of the BlackBerry.

Im proud to have a torch and I wont be returning it any time soon...

Uh, dude, I just replied to this identical post ofyours in another thread. What's up with copying and pasting the same post in three different threads (your post above is also copied here and here)? Rather bad form, old chap.

[jcp007]

Yes, RIM is making inroads into the consumer arena with acquisition of Torch mobile (webkit browser) and Cellmania (BB Apps) just not fast enough for the BEP-I Want It Now generation. With its proprietary business communication platform, RIM is not about to alienate the business professional market with a device that is too much tech toy. The Torch is a good balance between meeting the needs of business professionals and enough entertainment to attract the younger gneration. The Torch could have been faster and better but that is not the reality of the situation and all the bashing in the world is not going to help. IMO, long-time RIM users such as myself are happy with the Torch but also wish it could have been more. The Torch does what every BB device does...a solid and secure business communications device. Expectations that the Torch was going to kill the i4 and Android were unrealistic and unfounded given the pace of RIM innovation which has gotten a shot in the arm from the acquisitions previously mentioned and their partnership with AT&T who has brought many technical innovations to the market.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[NoahFecks]

Well everyone, nothing like replying to the actual topic of the thread.

That being said, I'm not aware of any real statistics, but I do feel as you do OP about "bandwagoners" and those looking for something to be wrong with their units. yes, there are a lot of threads here with people finding real problems with their devices, but that happens with every device put out there, regardless of manufacturer. It just gets magnified here because there are so many childish people here he|| bent on seeing RIM fail.

[jeffreii]

Every phone has issues like the ones listed in this forum.

Yes they are magnified by the fact that people here are more knowledgeable about their phone. Also by the fact that people are more likely to post/complain about negativity than positivity.

Both my parents have iPhones and neither of them have any apps installed - my dad doesn't check his text messages and my mom doesn't have her email on the device. They don't care. You think they're coming to the iPhone forums to complain about the issues that their devices might have?

So far you guys are having the same argument as in 100 other threads I've read here (vomit) - and it has hardly any connection with what the OP is asking.

[dchawk81]

I think it's the opposite. I don't think anyone is **** bent on seeing RIM fail. If anything, everyone here is **** bent on seeing RIM keep up with the times AND produce quality devices so they don't fail.

Just because there are consumers who don't use their device to the max doesn't mean the ones who do and find issues are just ******** for the sake of ********.

[Drayk]

These forums, by their very nature, become sounding boards for complaints. Yes, many are legit, and most of us are happy to help. . Yet I contend that many are people who are OCD, natural complainers/malcontents, "me-too" people, or posers. This phemonema is not limited to CB...we can see the same thing on most other tech forums.

Against this backdrop, one wonders how prevailing these issues truly are. The myriad problem-threads are in no way a statistically valid "sample". But we often hear the old "where there's smoke..." axiom. So, is there any hard data out there wrt failure or return rates, and how they compare to similar devices?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I totally concur w/ the OP.
I keep reading ppl yammering on about slow this...it can't do that...it's not as good as iDroid....ok, that's an opinion.
I could give a rats azz about spec's. I just want it to work....pretty simple.
I've owned BB for 5 yrs or so. I crack hard in my iDroid friends, all in fun. I thought I'd get an iPhone to actually see for myself what the big "deal" was.
I used a 3Gs w/OS4 for about 6 weeks.
I really liked it, for about 4 days. I told myself I needed to give it time. The more time I gave it, the less I liked it.
I had a BIG problem, tho. I gave my 9700 to my wife and she wouldn't give it back.
My experience w/the iPhone was, (among a plethora of other things) it just took to long to do any thing, AND, touch screen only sucked, FOR ME.
I love the Torch. I think it's a great "1st attempt" by RIM at a consumer oriented, media device.
I honestly can't think of ANYTHING the iPhone can do that my Torch can't.
(can't wait to see the responses to this comment)
If the iDroid had a keypad like the Torch, they MAY be on parr.
IMHO......BB and the Torch is "King of the Smartphone"

[mark_rivers19]

our hosehold bought 4 torches last Aug 12
and so far everyone's happy about it..
but i'm the only one who's a member of this forum
my dad and 2 brothers don't seem to care about RIMM stocks or BB Torch vs iphone 4 vs Samsung Captivate..
and they're still enjoying and discovering their phones up to this date

[dchawk81]

our hosehold bought 4 torches last Aug 12
and so far everyone's happy about it..
but i'm the only one who's a member of this forum
my dad and 2 brothers don't seem to care about RIMM stocks or BB Torch vs iphone 4 vs Samsung Captivate..
and they're still enjoying and discovering their phones up to this date

That's good to know. Hopefully Sprint will get something similar so I don't have to go with an Android.

[lee_]

So wrong. RIM is trying to appeal to the consumer market, they just can't do it with the slop they've been releasing.

It's also a complete fail when it starts using phrases like techno toy or email connectivity and security which seems to indicate the other platforms are not capable of the same.

I love RIM but lets get one thing clear both Android and the Iphone are capable of the same business tasks, reliabably and securely.

It's ok to have a different preference about what technology you like to use but it's not ok to claim something that clearly isn't true.

[BadClamz]

The OP of this thread makes a valid point that I agree many people tend to forget about as they traverse these forums, or any tech-oriented site geared towards a specific product that has legions of die-hard fans. In my opinion, there are very strong similarities between the diehard crackberries / iphoniacs here and the PS3 / Xbox fans on the various gaming forums. When I visit the PS3 forums, for example, there is no shortage of very specific complaints (as well as praise) for certain PS3 models, or accessories, or games, etc. People tend to get lost in there quite frankly, and its easy for one to obsess about any particular issue, real or imagined. And in very much the same way in which the Apple camp and the RIM camp sometimes go at each other's throats in these forums, trumping the device and model of their liking, so to do the Xbox and PS3 junkies....and it typically degenerates rapidly. However, I for one think that Crackberry maintains a modicum of civility and common sense as the forum-goers here tend to be less dramatic, and more mature.

After reading about the Torch on here extensively when it was on order, I had to remind myself that this is a very technical and demanding audience here, but that is also why I LOVE this place. I am armed with a bunch of great intel and I can choose what to do with it. And unlike the PS3 forums, I don't have to surf pages and pages of flame wars to get to the meat of it all.

[crbowers]

I've got to agree that the OP makes a valid point. Based on what you read here, I should have had to exchange at least one BB at some point. However, the only one I've ever returned was a 7100g because I did not like the form factor.

Also, on the (off topic) arguments about consumer features / business features/ fun, etc. I've got to say that the BB has all of the fun features I need. I can play a few basic card games, watch some you tube videos, and do some light web browsing.

I don't listen to music on my phone, I have an iPod for that, and I don't watch HD videos or TV episodes. I've had phones that could do those things, but thats not what I need or want out of a mobile device. And honestly, regardless what the tech blogs or real bleeding edge tech fans want you to believe, I think most people couldn't care less about shooting/viewing HD video and those other "must have" media features that they tell us all phones should have.

[Foreverup]

I tend to agree with the OP but i does get to the point you just start to ignoring the threads even if someone is asking about a legit problem just turns into a shouting match.

But on that account I think to Mods do a pretty horrible job around here and on most tech forums closing and combing threads so it is at least easier to read the main board. And if any of them takes me to task of that comment so be it but it was ridiculous around CB when the torch got released, worse then I have ever seen before.

And for the side discussion of Business or consumer device, as an international business traveler who is always jumping from network to network overseas there is no way I would do that with anything but a blackberry.

[mark_rivers19]

It's ok to have a different preference about what technology you like to use but it's not ok to claim something that clearly isn't true.

is Steve jobs an exception to this?
iphone 4 is claiming the face time as an apple thing.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2364801,00.asp

[lee_]

So wrong. RIM is trying to appeal to the consumer market, they just can't do it with the slop they've been releasing.

is Steve jobs an exception to this?
iphone 4 is claiming the face time as an apple thing.

iPhone 4's FaceTime Video Calling Isn't A First | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

I'm an Apple fan but really can't stand that guy.

[katiepea]

Well good points out there.

In my opinion I think people are judging in a very cruel what kind of a phone the Torch is. I previously owned 3 Curves, one being the newer model, 2 bolds (9000 and 9700) and the black one before bold came out. 3 Days ago I switched to the Torch. And Ive used android and iphone models before. As a person who lives by email and works by email I lasted only a week with the iphone when I switched to it from a bberry just to try it our and came back in a flash. But there are many things I like about the iphone. 3 days ago in the morning I was happily and proudly using my 9700 white and then a friend told me some Torches came in (I live in Istanbul where the Torch is a long way from being sold for a while) I went over to the store and I just bought it. I didn't think a minute. Why? Because I trust RIM.

Ive been using the phone ever since. Has the phone failed my trust? No. Yes the screen is crap yes it could have been better but remember: this is not a tech-toy; its a Blackberry. Its for business not for fun. You can watch HD movies with the Evo or the Droid X or you may enjoy a retinal blah blah with your without-the-case-not-working iPhone 4. But you wont have the e-mail connectivity and the security of the BlackBerry.

Im proud to have a torch and I wont be returning it any time soon...

the fact that the phone is for 'business not for fun' doesn't exactly justify them charging the same amount of money as iphone/android offerings with double the screen/cpu/ram/gpu. if you're going to sit here and say yes the hardware is crap but it's for a reason, the phone should cost $50-$100.

[Drayk]

the fact that the phone is for 'business not for fun' doesn't exactly justify them charging the same amount of money as iphone/android offerings with double the screen/cpu/ram/gpu. if you're going to sit here and say yes the hardware is crap but it's for a reason, the phone should cost $50-$100.

....what a joke. The Torch does EVERYTHING an iDroid does, and then some.
AND...just as well, if not better, I might add

[katiepea]

....what a joke. The Torch does EVERYTHING an iDroid does, and then some.
AND...just as well, if not better, I might add

wtf is an idroid? and does the torch offer an amoled screen? does it offer replaceable software keybaords? does it offer a 1ghz snapdragon cpu? does it do flash? does it offer userend rendering webkit? does it offer open source api's? does it have an app catalog with 200k apps? look i could go on and on, the fact of the matter is theres a book of features that android has that the torch doesn't, and the things that it does, it doesn't do as well

[Drayk]

wtf is an idroid? and does the torch offer an amoled screen? does it offer replaceable software keybaords? does it offer a 1ghz snapdragon cpu? does it do flash? does it offer userend rendering webkit? does it offer open source api's? does it have an app catalog with 200k apps? look i could go on and on, the fact of the matter is theres a book of features that android has that the torch doesn't, and the things that it does, it doesn't do as well

iDroid are iPhone/Android fan boys.
Dude-I'm not trying to offend anyone. I'm just tired of all the BS. The Torch is a great device. It does everything MOST ppl NEED for it to do that need what a BB does BEST. It does communication better that the aforementioned devices.
I could give a rats azz about specs.
BB is a preference device. Why do you guys insist on telling US your rig is better. Better for whom ???????????????????? YOU ????????????
That may be, but don't tell me it's not better for ME!