[dLo GSR]

A $30 case is great compensation for a design flaw on a $300 plus device.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

But in the process, Apple never once admitted to any type of design flaw and attempted to scapegoat RIM in the process.

Also, a bumper costs the consumer $30 but most likely costs Apple less than a dollar to make.

[Capitan Totti]

Awesome thread. But seriously, you know what day it is tomorrow?

The day I finally go full ANDROID! Galaxy S Bell Canada baby.

Oh and yeah it blow the toched up unreleased torch out of the water. I mean, no competition at all. LAWL


Oh if you guys didnt know! 6GB Data for $30 too! Sweeet eh? BlackBerry is out of the comptition.

Too late for RIM, RIP.

You must be one of the "silliest" dudes on the forum, and notice I used the word "silliest" and not some other I would have loved to use but... can't for forum policies. I mean, you got 226 posts and yet you hate RIM and can't stop praising Android... then, why are you here? If I ever get an Android device, I will just... stop posting here. Why do you think we want to read your "whining"... Not so bright, are you?

[jcp007]

While Apple does offer good products to meet the entertainment needs of its customers, they need to stop insulting their intelligence and stop being so arrogant. The iPad, for instance, is basically a 64 GB iPod Touch for which Apple charges $500-$600 for the added benefit of more screen space and no more functionality. The manner with which Antennagate was handled will drive more users to Moto and Samsung.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Capitan Totti]

Anything Apple is a rip off. Plain and simple.

[Sirhill]

for OS 5.0 on the 9700, OS updates rarely do anything groundbreaking... the biggest thing that an OS update has ever done for me is 1) remove the alt+del feature in SMS and 2) change the lock button functionality. essentially everything else remains the same. battery life is THE SAME. OS speed is THE SAME. you will be hard pressed to find definitive proof that changes based solely on perceived effect (battery life, data speed, 'snappiness') are factual, considering for every one that reports something improved, another reports no change or worse behavior. I have gone through almost every iteration of OS update for the 9700, and I stopped at .680 because I realized NOTHING WAS FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT.

to say that an OS update is going to fix everything that people see disappointing about the 9800 is simply foolish. RIM should get it right from the first place. i'd rather have one major update (as android and iOS do) than 16 minor ones.

also, i don't remember the 9700 being 'mediocre' when it first came out; it was awesome, i loved it, and so did almost everyone else. the reaction to the 9800 from the general community and the rest of the media was very different than that of the 9700's, and that is a bad sign for RIM.

A lot of what you said may be true about the blackberry but the stuff about about android and ios is false. Android released a few different os updates to fix the nexus one and did not get it right once and iOS has sent out updates also for the ip4 after the jacked up anntena issues and as we have seen that was one great fix (free bumpers anyone). Before you post such BS make sure you do some damn research clown.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[dLo GSR]

A lot of what you said may be true about the blackberry but the stuff about about android and ios is false. Android released a few different os updates to fix the nexus one and did not get it right once and iOS has sent out updates also for the ip4 after the jacked up anntena issues and as we have seen that was one great fix (free bumpers anyone). Before you post such BS make sure you do some damn research clown.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Well that was completely unwarranted. **** off and stop being so sensitive, clown.

For the record, I didn't say anything about Android as I have no experience using it. I never claimed iOS fixed everything (and I made it pretty clear I hate iPhones), I was providing an example as to how they work their releases compared to how RIM does theirs.

While Apple does offer good products to meet the entertainment needs of its customers, they need to stop insulting their intelligence and stop being so arrogant. The iPad, for instance, is basically a 64 GB iPod Touch for which Apple charges $500-$600 for the added benefit of more screen space and no more functionality. The manner with which Antennagate was handled will drive more users to Moto and Samsung.

I agree with that.

[CrackBerry Storm meh]

Slightly mistaken. Apple never admitted their device was flawed. They instead tried to pawn it off on everyone else, and basically told the media they were a bunch of babies, and to take some free bumpers as pacifiers. Apple and Steve Jobs have way to big an ego to admit any mistakes. Instead they dump it on companies like RIM, which is a terrible method on their part. I was proud that RIM's CEOs responded in the way they did.

The media treated the antennagate problem as something new to the world of smartphones. Apple had a whole event to address the signal problem - How is that not admitting that there was a problem?

A $30 case is great compensation for a design flaw on a $300 plus device.

If they did not like that deal, just return their iPhone 4 for free lol. Nobody is forcing people to stay with the iPhone 4, and Apple accepts returns of the iPhone 4 in good condition. I really do not understand what you are getting at - Apple did not have any obligation to do anything, much like RIM did with the Blackberry Tour 9630. How did RIM handle that? Stop tiptoeing around the Tour please.

But in the process, Apple never once admitted to any type of design flaw and attempted to scapegoat RIM in the process.

Also, a bumper costs the consumer $30 but most likely costs Apple less than a dollar to make.

While Apple does offer good products to meet the entertainment needs of its customers, they need to stop insulting their intelligence and stop being so arrogant. The iPad, for instance, is basically a 64 GB iPod Touch for which Apple charges $500-$600 for the added benefit of more screen space and no more functionality. The manner with which Antennagate was handled will drive more users to Moto and Samsung.

Let's see... the iPad has a more powerful processor, offers a data plan w/o a phone plan, more RAM, a 3G option, more applications, a larger screen (which is not exactly cheap :P,) and a larger battery... I completely agree! There is no difference between the hardware of the iPod Touch 64GB and the iPad :P.

Anything Apple is a rip off. Plain and simple.

iPods?

[dLo GSR]

The media treated the antennagate problem as something new to the world of smartphones. Apple had a whole event to address the signal problem - How is that not admitting that there was a problem?

Because the entire press conference was, "Hey, yeah signal goes down, but every phone does it and here are examples of each phone that does it. We didn't do anything wrong because this problem has alway existed. But to get the media off our backs, take these free rubberbands to put around your phone."

[G229]

Just wait for the next version.
It's all about marketing and creating buzz...getting people interested and getting them to buy! The next version will be updated screen, processor, memory, etc.
But this is pretty good so far.

[CrackBerry Storm meh]

Well that was completely unwarranted. **** off and stop being so sensitive, clown.

[phonejunky]

You know what else is stupid IMO? People taking pictures of themselves with wife beater shirts (or no shirt at all lol) showing off their "cool" muscles, then posting it on their profile for the world to see... lmao...

Not just you, but everyone that does this.

I'm guessing you posted this because you're fat or maybe not athletically built and have low self-esteem because of it.

[jcp007]

Apple would have let customers believe that it was their imagination that the device had an intentional design flaw that they were arrogant enough to think that no one would notice and if they did, so what. They acknowledged the issue only when someone held them accountable and they still refused take responsibility without trying to drag RIM into the fray and blamed the press, which for once did its job. Is Apple the only company that handles issues in this way? Of course not, but trolls who insist on trashing a device that they don't like, haven't tried or will never buy always use the iPhone, Captivate or Evo as being the "gold" standard. Will RIM release a product that threatens the Apple? Yes, someday, but not anytime soon as these toy companies have a huge lead and loyal following of trolls who cannot admit that the competition does some things well and who focus on trashing device to compensate for their own shortcomings.

[CrackBerry Storm meh]

Because the entire press conference was, "Hey, yeah signal goes down, but every phone does it and here are examples of each phone that does it. We didn't do anything wrong because this problem has alway existed. But to get the media off our backs, take these free rubberbands to put around your phone."

But they did acknowledge it Did RIM ever acknowledge the 9630's problems? Nope.

[CrackBerry Storm meh]

I'm guessing you posted this because you're fat or maybe not athletically built and have low self-esteem because of it.

Apple would have let customers believe that it was their imagination that the device had an intentional design flaw that they were arrogant enough to think that no one would notice and if they did, so what. They acknowledged the issue only when someone held them accountable and they still refused take responsibility without trying to drag RIM into the fray and blamed the press, which for once did its job. Is Apple the only company that handles issues in this way? Of course not, but trolls who insist on trashing a device that they don't like, haven't tried or will never buy always use the iPhone, Captivate or Evo as being the "gold" standard. Will RIM release a product that threatens the Apple? Yes, someday, but not anytime soon as these toy companies have a huge lead and loyal following of trolls who cannot admit that the competition does some things well and who focus on trashing device to compensate for their own shortcomings.

Or they could be like RIM and never acknowledge the 9630's problems... I would like Apple's solution a bit more if I was their customer.

[jcp007]

They acknowledged it only indirectly and only because they got caught. No one would argue that RIM handles all things perfectly but at least their arrogance is not so tremendous that they don't consistently insult the intelligence of their following. BTW, the trackpad makes a tremendous difference, try one and stop using the olde trackball.

[Sirhill]

Well that was completely unwarranted. **** off and stop being so sensitive, clown.

For the record, I didn't say anything about Android as I have no experience using it. I never claimed iOS fixed everything (and I made it pretty clear I hate iPhones), I was providing an example as to how they work their releases compared to how RIM does theirs.

For the record you said "i'd rather have one major update (as android and iOS do) than 16 minor ones." So was it warranted maybe not be my points still stands do your research before posting or do not speak about things that you are not privy to. This way you look as if you know what you are talking about instead of looking like a clown, clown.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[JohnMidnight]

+1 to the OP.

I don't need a high res screen, when it can cost battery life, and I don't need a high end processor that can't do what my Intel Core 2 Duo or what my GFX 260 can do, or what some AMD Processors can do (new ones) and that is actually underclock when at low usage.

People say the SnapDragon can, but remember, the OS decides what's low usage. Keep that in MIND.

As for the screen. I have a 1280x1024, and a 1440x900 res monitors on my desktop, and thats where I sit, 90% of the time. I am getting a 1920x1200 monitor soon. There is NO mobile device that--I have, and want--can deliver those resolutions. No need for a big screen. And if I remember, you can also increase font sizes....

[dmnall]

Apple would have let customers believe that it was their imagination that the device had an intentional design flaw that they were arrogant enough to think that no one would notice and if they did, so what. They acknowledged the issue only when someone held them accountable and they still refused take responsibility without trying to drag RIM into the fray and blamed the press, which for once did its job. Is Apple the only company that handles issues in this way? Of course not, but trolls who insist on trashing a device that they don't like, haven't tried or will never buy always use the iPhone, Captivate or Evo as being the "gold" standard. Will RIM release a product that threatens the Apple? Yes, someday, but not anytime soon as these toy companies have a huge lead and loyal following of trolls who cannot admit that the competition does some things well and who focus on trashing device to compensate for their own shortcomings.

While I agree with you on a lot of valid points, but as long as I was using a BB phone, they are great but they are not the most solid phone on the market. I jumped over to Android because none of the newer BBs really catch my attention, I will still check out the Torch to actually see how it runs up close. I am not just in a single mindset of just one phone and be done. I am not a huge fan of apple and their iPhone, which I will say iPhone fantatics are the most close-minded people I have ever talked to because they think that iPhone is the best phone ever, even with the antenna problems of the ip4, they still think that Apple is the best and looks at both Google and RIM as they are not even up too par. My biggest gripe with RIM and their newer devices is that they went to a small form factor which I really love the Bold 9000 physical size, there was just some design flaws in that phone. The Torch looks cool but it still has the small 9700 style keyboard which in all honesty I could not type on the 9700 because of the small size. Now I love a full touch screen phone because I can type just as fast and pretty close to being as accurate as I was on my bold 9000, however, I just wish RIM would release a full screen bb that has a high resolution samoled screen and all in the factor of being as big or even a tad bit bigger then the bold 9000 and I would be back in a heart beat. For now, I really love my Samsung Captivate, Android has a lot of pros over bb and even OS6 is proving to close that fact but still on the Torch, I feel the screen is still a tad bit too small compared to what the high end android devices have *3.2 inch screen versus 4, 4.3 and even the Dell Streaks 5 inch screen* is a no brainer. I am hoping the Torch does not end up being the final nail in Rims coffin. I would hate to see Rim go under but I would love for them to listen to the users and dominate the market like they did for so many years..

Cheers,
Charlie

[jcp007]

While I agree with you on a lot of valid points, but as long as I was using a BB phone, they are great but they are not the most solid phone on the market. I jumped over to Android because none of the newer BBs really catch my attention, I will still check out the Torch to actually see how it runs up close. I am not just in a single mindset of just one phone and be done. I am not a huge fan of apple and their iPhone, which I will say iPhone fantatics are the most close-minded people I have ever talked to because they think that iPhone is the best phone ever, even with the antenna problems of the ip4, they still think that Apple is the best and looks at both Google and RIM as they are not even up too par. My biggest gripe with RIM and their newer devices is that they went to a small form factor which I really love the Bold 9000 physical size, there was just some design flaws in that phone. The Torch looks cool but it still has the small 9700 style keyboard which in all honesty I could not type on the 9700 because of the small size. Now I love a full touch screen phone because I can type just as fast and pretty close to being as accurate as I was on my bold 9000, however, I just wish RIM would release a full screen bb that has a high resolution samoled screen and all in the factor of being as big or even a tad bit bigger then the bold 9000 and I would be back in a heart beat. For now, I really love my Samsung Captivate, Android has a lot of pros over bb and even OS6 is proving to close that fact but still on the Torch, I feel the screen is still a tad bit too small compared to what the high end android devices have *3.2 inch screen versus 4, 4.3 and even the Dell Streaks 5 inch screen* is a no brainer. I am hoping the Torch does not end up being the final nail in Rims coffin. I would hate to see Rim go under but I would love for them to listen to the users and dominate the market like they did for so many years..

Cheers,
Charlie

Charlie,

For once, someone who provide a more reasoned defense of your argument rather than spewing trash about a device that has not yet been released. RIM still dominates the business professional market but not the consumer market which I agree should be done post haste. It will take time shift the infrastructure in term of the R&D resources,either through acquisition or internally and to invest the financial resources to make it happen.

RIM is doing some things well to address the needs of its users. Webkit browser and improving familiar functions. Memory is doubled and 4GB of storage added which can be upgraded to 36GB with the addition of a 32GB micro SD card. The i4 is stuck with 32GB and it will be years before they double to 64GB. In the meantime, when the 64 GB micro SD card is available, the i4 will still be stuck with 32GB. When the OS is updated to tweak some of the troll issues and can operate with a 1 Ghz processor and much higher screen resolution without sacrificing battery power, the Torch or it successors will no longer be the kids at the back of the class.

RIM does have a proprietary business communication platform that other phone makers are trying to imitate. Notifications of incoming messages can be customized much better. Better battery life. To me, the i4 is more cookie cutter in that you are stuck with certain features and if something is lacking or doesn't work, there's an app for that instead of making a necessary system change. Having so many apps and not really improving functionality which I admit is superior to RIM, at the moment and for some time to come,c annot be billed as innovation.

[pseudo7]

+1 to the OP.

I don't need a high res screen, when it can cost battery life, and I don't need a high end processor that can't do what my Intel Core 2 Duo or what my GFX 260 can do, or what some AMD Processors can do (new ones) and that is actually underclock when at low usage.

People say the SnapDragon can, but remember, the OS decides what's low usage. Keep that in MIND.

As for the screen. I have a 1280x1024, and a 1440x900 res monitors on my desktop, and thats where I sit, 90% of the time. I am getting a 1920x1200 monitor soon. There is NO mobile device that--I have, and want--can deliver those resolutions. No need for a big screen. And if I remember, you can also increase font sizes....

And all that is perfectly valid, of course, but you are in the minority. People demand more from their smartphones these days. That's why Android and iPhone sales are increasing. And that's also why new customers rarely even consider a BlackBerry in this landscape.

[jrdtechdotnet]

+1 to the OP.

I don't need a high res screen, when it can cost battery life, and I don't need a high end processor .

Yeah but how do you explain the iphone 4 and Droid-X which boasts much better battery life then the 9800.

[jcp007]

Android sales are increasing and Apple not as quickly as one might suspect. Apple while providing great functionality has been resting on its laurels depending on polished glass and stainles steel trim with a faulty antenna as well as more apps that keep their customers looking at the Great Oz rather than noticing the adding new exterior and even more apps cannot be passed off as innovation. Don't write RIM's obituary just yet. As I have mentioned previously, RIM is more customizeable in some aspects. The storage capacity is not fixed as it can be increased at the discretion of the owner and availability of larger storage media. Notification of various messaging formats can be better customized. RIM products tend to have better battery life. The next official OS6 update after the device is released should address some of the issues discussed the Torch threads. It probably won't be long before the Torch refresh or its successor have competitive platforms. The competition also has a substantial lead in development and in terms of their following. It will take a tremendous investment on the part of RIM to make the necessary infrastructure and corporate culture changes.

[ALpHa.Q.RoUgH]

Well the next iteration better be nice. There is a invisible book out there called "How to be succesful for dummies". Seems like Apple, Google and all the other manufacturers got the idea of it and is selling. They got their 1ghz, there AMO-LED, there 4.3 inch screens and their high resolutions and are selling like hotcakes. So here comes RIM and they is like "Hey I want to compete for the same demographic they're going for." But somehow they totally miss the boat, with they low screen resolution, no front camera, 624 or whatever number they have for mhz. We'll see in due time how they do and I wish them well but if your trying to compete and everyone is bringing MUSTANGS why are you showing up in a CIVIC?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[jcp007]

Partnering with AT&T and acquiring Torch Mobile...just two steps toward the goal of being more competitive in the consumer market. If you are even aware of the fraction of technological innovations in communications that AT&T has produced, you can imagine the jumpstart to R&D. RIM users have been begging for a decent browser so one step close by acquiring Torch Mobile. Doubling memory to 512MB and having 4GB onboard storage together with a 32GB micro SD makes 36GB. Tweaking the OS so that the device can more efficiently manage a 1GHz processor and 1GB of RAM as well as further leveraging the Torch Mobile webkit browser. Are you starting to see that RIM is not out for the count? All the processor speed and screen resolution means absolutely nothing if the device can't make it through the day. Apple has it "right". Dumb down the users with apps that do the thinking for them so they don't have to think or notice that aircraft glass and stainless steel trim with more apps is not innovation. The i4 is stuck with 32GB of storage. With Apple, it is all about control in lulling their users into a culture of monotheistic, conformist culture of depending upon someone else to do your thinking for you. Think about how many things on an i4 are dumbed down to an icon that does something for you and that is the only way to use that function instead of thinking of new ways. In this economy, if the MUSTANG's don't get off their laurels which they can't ride much longer, they will be FORD and not first on race day.

[jcp007]

Mustangs have power under the hood but guzzle gas whereas Hondas are adequately powered for their size and are more fuel efficient. Great analogy. The Honda has more endurance to get to the destination sooner since it doesn't have to stop as often for gas thus beginning to offset the Mustang's advantages.