[pattste]

I just finished watching this week's Engaget Show. They talked about the Torch and as usual coming from them it wasn't a glowing review.

At one point, they had it load the Engaget homepage. The performance was absolutely mediocre. It must have taken two minutes. Some things are a matter of opinion but this is just a fact. It was unbearably slow.

We can try any way we want to rationalize the choice of a 624MHz processor and 512Mb of RAM. But there is no doubt that better specs would have made a difference, here.

I will likely buy one anyway because I love the BlackBerry experience but I'm still very disappointed that the new flagship device has such minimal specs.

[K Bear]

I do believe that the browser itself is a lot better than any previous Blackberry browser. On the other hand, without the proper processor, enough RAM, and a good connection, it's pretty much useless.

[fernandez21]

why are people complaining about the ram? 512 is what all highend smartphones have, and is twice as much as the ipad.

[ALpHa.Q.RoUgH]

Like all the BBgeeks here say, its not about the SPECS....its about "THE BATTERY LIFE MAN!!!!" Who cares if its slow as a baby crawling, the battery lasts for 36 days straight! [/sarcasm]

But honestly idk why its so slow, they acquired the Torch company that gives them a slow browser experience. Maybe after a few OS updates it will increase speed but who knows. Everybody loves how quick they emails and notifications comes on a BB as a "business person" but I guess the browser experience for a "business person" doesn't need to be as quick.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[ALpHa.Q.RoUgH]

But to put it in perspective, if you've been with Blackberries this whole time this Browser experience will be a greatly welcome addition and far superior to what I experienced on my 9000 and 9700. So to me that's all that matters is that its better than previous blackberries.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Fnord]

To do a side-by-side comparison with non-BB devices there is one very important fact that must be kept in mind. All data sent to a BB is being passed and compressed through RIM's servers. While this will definitely slow loading times, it also cuts the amount of data used by 3!

That is why RIM is so favorable of carrier tiered data plans.

[LionlinesCEO]

RIM is the equivelent of "going green"

[pattste]

why are people complaining about the ram? 512 is what all highend smartphones have, and is twice as much as the ipad.

I would guess that some people are upset that some Blackberries they bought only a few months ago cannot be upgraded to OS6 because they don't have enough RAM. I would not be surprised if same time next year it turned out that my Torch 9800 cannot run OS7 and I still have two-thirds of a three-year contract to go.

It isn't reasonable to expect cell phones to be future-proof and eternally upgradeable. But when a company has one of its biggest releases yet (Less an evolutionary leap, more like a triple axel, remember) you expect the phone to have more than bare-minimum specs.

[grover5]

Engadget and BGR are to the cell phone world what ESPN is to the sports world...thanks, it's cute and fun to keep up on what is coming my way or what happened...but I'll do my own analysis...I know limited when I read it.

[AG212]

Engadget and BGR are to the cell phone world what ESPN is to the sports world...thanks, it's cute and fun to keep up on what is coming my way or what happened...but I'll do my own analysis...I know limited when I read it.

Go watch Kevin's browser comparison then if Engagdet is somehow obscuring this. Same info, different person.

I would have thought it was a general consensus by now that, yes, the browser is better than any BB, but is still slower than others.

[grover5]

xAGx, I have a 9700, I'm good...I don't need to watch anyone's anything. I made my own assessment. Thanks for the tip.

[xyritheon]

Coming from an IT guy, I just have to say this:

That video is BS, you are watching something happen second hand. There are so many factors that could come into play there that would slow the browsing experience down. For Engadget to just pull up a page like that and dismiss the phone based on one page load out of the blue is BS.

In the scientific world they like to call what Engadget was lacking in that experiment a "controlled environment".

If I'm wrong, correct me.

[fernandez21]

I would guess that some people are upset that some Blackberries they bought only a few months ago cannot be upgraded to OS6 because they don't have enough RAM. I would not be surprised if same time next year it turned out that my Torch 9800 cannot run OS7 and I still have two-thirds of a three-year contract to go.

It isn't reasonable to expect cell phones to be future-proof and eternally upgradeable. But when a company has one of its biggest releases yet (Less an evolutionary leap, more like a triple axel, remember) you expect the phone to have more than bare-minimum specs.

Well if that's the case, isn't the problem with os6? I mean ios4 runs very smoothly on the 3GS and it's running a 600mhz processor and 256 ram. I don't see why os6 won't be able to run just as smooth, it probably just needs some optimization which can be taken care o in updates.

[chuckh0308]

why are people complaining about the ram? 512 is what all highend smartphones have, and is twice as much as the ipad.

Yes, but the other smartphones only use the RAM for currently running applications. The operating system and apps are stored in the ROM or other memory. In fact, Android now supports storing applications on the SD card! If RIM would just allow application storage to the device memory that is not RAM then that would solve a LOT of problems.

[blazed12]

My experience with Torch 9800 is not a good one. First of all, the lag or hiccups that they were saying? Yep it's real moving around is just terrible. The browser is hella slow I have no idea why.. I turn the wifi on, clear everything up I even check if there's any application running but nope still the same. Hopefully, they can fix this problems with the new OS whenever AT&T decide to release it. It looks promising.. but the overall performance is just horrible.

[xyritheon]

Yes, but the other smartphones only use the RAM for currently running applications. The operating system and apps are stored in the ROM or other memory. In fact, Android now supports storing applications on the SD card! If RIM would just allow application storage to the device memory that is not RAM then that would solve a LOT of problems.

From an engineering standpoint, this does bother me. I don't see any reason why RIM can't pull this off. It makes sense to do it this way.

[JasW]

Frankly, I can't wait until I and all the other BB users here have the phone next week, and the trolls, BB/RIM haters, and iPhone and Android loser users crawl back under their rocks, and this becomes a normal BB device forum where people talk about THEIR experiences with the phone, and not what some flaming doosh bucket on Engadget set up.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Cmaeda]

As a RIM fan, that was very painful to watch.. plus all the negativity and bashing the phone received. But, I do think they do have a point.. the fluidity is just not there, overall not just in the browser. One thing is for sure someone is learning from their past, and that is microsoft. The demo they did of Windows phone 7 has me very stoked for this platform.. Samsung phone with awesome screen and win phone 7.. count me in.

[vaca232]

why are people complaining about the ram? 512 is what all highend smartphones have, and is twice as much as the ipad.

It doesn't have 512MB of RAM. It has 512MB of flash memory for the OS and apps.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Sirhill]

I want to make one thing clear. The web kit browser will not be any faster if the spec were any different. The one thing you should know is that RIM has setup a sever just for the browser to take advantage of while using the att data. This one factor actually limits the speed of the browser because it is populated from that sever or set of severs. Now when you are on wifi the browser switches from that server directly to the net making for a faster experience because it's gateway to the net is now controlled by your wifi connection and not RIM.

This is what everyone should really be upset by not the speed. This will get better but as for now it is what it is. And like xyritheon stated there is no control environment so basing there judgment on this one page is beyond dumb and not knowing the real story is even more stupid. Say what you will but without proper research you look foolish.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[mke67]

Frankly, I can't wait until I and all the other BB users here have the phone next week, and the trolls, BB/RIM haters, and iPhone and Android loser users crawl back under their rocks, and this becomes a normal BB device forum where people talk about THEIR experiences with the phone, and not what some flaming doosh bucket on Engadget set up.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

YessireeeBob. My thoughts exactly. Effing monkeys.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[K Bear]

I want to make one thing clear. The web kit browser will not be any faster if the spec were any different. The one thing you should know is that RIM has setup a sever just for the browser to take advantage of while using the att data. This one factor actually limits the speed of the browser because it is populated from that sever or set of severs. Now when you are on wifi the browser switches from that server directly to the net making for a faster experience because it's gateway to the net is now controlled by your wifi connection and not RIM.

This is what everyone should really be upset by not the speed. This will get better but as for now it is what it is. And like xyritheon stated there is no control environment so basing there judgment on this one page is beyond dumb and not knowing the real story is even more stupid. Say what you will but without proper research you look foolish.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I distinictly remember posting in the initial thread where the 9800 was being compared over WiFi. I remember saying let's not judge this device over a WiFi connection, but rather over the network. Yeah, I caught heck for that. Seems I was right on this one. There will be a huge difference with the browser performance on the network which is not a positive.

[Sirhill]

I agree I was not calling you out but the source that the test was done. I was more or less stating the point of how this browser is used, which has really been the same until now, RIM now has taken it one step further by switching the type of browsing with you doing more less than just using wifi vs the network.

The average consumer uses the network and not wifi. As a person that sells phone I have all but stopped saying anything about the phones having wifi because most don't either know what its purpose is for or even know what it is. So when showing the browsers on these device over wifi may make a device look crazy fast it is also misleading. Kevin's demo of the browser was more on point of how it is really going to be (although painful). - still will use the browser and be more than happy so really its to each his own.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[NoahFecks]

To do a side-by-side comparison with non-BB devices there is one very important fact that must be kept in mind. All data sent to a BB is being passed and compressed through RIM's servers. While this will definitely slow loading times, it also cuts the amount of data used by 3!

That is why RIM is so favorable of carrier tiered data plans.

And this is EXACTLY why I would stick with BlackBerry. In the long run it would actually cost less to use a BB (assuming you use the network rather than WiFi and don't have an unlimited plan). Sure, the browser performance isn't the same as the others, but if your life hangs in the balance over something so trivial as how fast a web page loads or how smooth it scrolls and zooms (as it seems for most of the trolls here) then you have some serious issues.

To those who think the BB is so inferior and feel the need to troll these forums pointlessly, then congratulations, you just won the "I think I'm so much better than you because my phone outperforms your phone" award. Which hole would you like it shoved in?

[anon3396357]

And this is EXACTLY why I would stick with BlackBerry. In the long run it would actually cost less to use a BB (assuming you use the network rather than WiFi and don't have an unlimited plan). Sure, the browser performance isn't the same as the others, but if your life hangs in the balance over something so trivial as how fast a web page loads or how smooth it scrolls and zooms (as it seems for most of the trolls here) then you have some serious issues.

To those who think the BB is so inferior and feel the need to troll these forums pointlessly, then congratulations, you just won the "I think I'm so much better than you because my phone outperforms your phone" award. Which hole would you like it shoved in?

Sometimes it's not trivial. Although I can still surf the internet and google for information, there are times when speed IS the necessity. I was working for a consultancy firm which conducts staff training, and we're pretty much running all over the town especially when it's for occasions like soft openings while the building is not even ready yet.

Circumstances change right on the spot and problems have to be dealt pretty much straight away. Sound equipment went down - where's the nearest place to get a portable set? Our client had to find a solution right in the middle of the training to get it!

And to tell you the truth, nail-biting moments like these sometimes don't seem so bad in retrospect. But during crunch time, every second waiting for the browser to render a web page is painful. Several times the iPhone 3GS saved the day already.

So I would say the 9800 will come in handy. Or rather, OS6.