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  #31  
Old 08-24-2009, 12:41 PM
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****, I used piezo electric patches as strain gages under Michie Stadium at West Point over 10 years ago. They are amazingly accurate in measuring minute deflections of material. I attached them to the underside of the concrete stadium bleachers to measure the deflection in the concrete, as it was cracking under the stress of so many people jumping up and down during games.

I can see this technology being applied in these "buttons" very simply.

I'm not trying to be a **** here bud, but there are some really big brains on these boards that have a much more broad understanding of piezo technology than you do as a car mechanic. It might not make sense under the application that you are used to, but it sure as **** makes sense to me based on the research that I did. Furthermore, my research was over 10-years ago. I'm sure the technology has advanced from that point, so I would hardly call it cutting edge.
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  #32  
Old 08-24-2009, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackberryjoel View Post
Lol I'm done here your right its piezo.

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I would hope no one is saying it has to be piezo technology, but you just completely dismissing it because you use piezo based sensors in a car, is just not a good base reference. Like I said, there are many many applications to this technology beyond sensors for cars.

In the end, it might not be, but based on what I know and have personally been published on, it at least theoretically makes sense that it could be applied here.
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  #33  
Old 08-24-2009, 12:58 PM
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Oh, and just to add something else to the mix. Piezo electric strain gages don't have to be powered. hmmmmmmmmm.
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  #34  
Old 08-24-2009, 01:02 PM
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People are saying it has no Piezo, others still see that it could quite possibly contain. I will stick with the idea that it is there just because I have a pretty good understanding of how it works now, and there is nothing that has canceled the idea out yet.
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  #35  
Old 08-24-2009, 01:21 PM
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Exactly. Who knows at this point. It would be cool if they found a way to use it. If not, then I guess the addition of 4 large buttons is a better and more accurate version of the first one. I do remember someone saying way back when after the S1 came out that the next storm will have 4 buttons instead of 1.

Can't wait to get the spec sheet on this one and see how they improved it.
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  #36  
Old 08-24-2009, 01:33 PM
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4 contat points, on a piezo device, seems tha many of the screen touch must be interpolated, so limited multitouch is here.
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Old 08-24-2009, 01:47 PM
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Can't wait to find out all the piezo tech has to do with the phone is the power button

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  #38  
Old 08-24-2009, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ahyougotme View Post
Can't wait to find out all the piezo tech has to do with the phone is the power button

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loololllololol.....classic
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  #39  
Old 08-24-2009, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ahyougotme View Post
Can't wait to find out all the piezo tech has to do with the phone is the power button

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ahh..you got me there... really.
lololol

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  #40  
Old 08-25-2009, 01:25 AM
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Some input (guesses) from my long electronics experience...

If you look at the four points, notice that there are a pair of circuit board traces to the big "disc", and another pair to the interleaved contacts on the inner "disc".

Any button contact closure uses 2 traces, and a pressure sensor or piezo element would also use two contacts.

It seems to me that the four points have two devices each.

The interleaved fingers on the inner disc a very typical design for buttons. A small voltage is present on one set of the fingers, and the other side goes to the devices "input". When the button is pressed, a tiny conductive pad is pushed onto the fingers, completing the path and sending the voltage to the device, signaling that it is pressed down. Tear open an old calculator and look at the board under the buttons and you will see the same fingers.

In the S2 pic, these buttons are covered with a bubble of soft plastic, i.e. bumpers. It seems the screen would actually rest on these. These would offer the feeling of a click as they are normal buttons.

The larger disc appears to support the button "fingers" above the button "shorting pad". The large disc is the mystery, but is likely some material between the two big metal discs. The big circuit traces likely go to the discs, to either supply voltage to them (to unlock, or soften the material between them), or sense voltage from them (sensing degree of pressure). In other words, the material between those discs probably has an electromechanical property, and forms the "springs" or "sponges" that support the display. Piezos are usually in that same form, but it's impossible to tell what they really are from the pics.



Piezos can sense teeeeny variations in pressure. If you have four under a rectangular panel, it would be simple to triangulate the position of at least two pressure points just by looking at the difference in pressures (voltages) from the 4 piezos. But then why are there traditional buttons as well?

Last edited by TBacker; 08-25-2009 at 01:46 AM.
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  #41  
Old 08-25-2009, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBacker View Post
Some input (guesses) from my long electronics experience...

If you look at the four points, notice that there are a pair of circuit board traces to the big "disc", and another pair to the interleaved contacts on the inner "disc".

Any button contact closure uses 2 traces, and a pressure sensor or piezo element would also use two contacts.

It seems to me that the four points have two devices each.

The interleaved fingers on the inner disc a very typical design for buttons. A small voltage is present on one set of the fingers, and the other side goes to the devices "input". When the button is pressed, a tiny conductive pad is pushed onto the fingers, completing the path and sending the voltage to the device, signaling that it is pressed down. Tear open an old calculator and look at the board under the buttons and you will see the same fingers.

In the S2 pic, these buttons are covered with a bubble of soft plastic, i.e. bumpers. It seems the screen would actually rest on these. These would offer the feeling of a click as they are normal buttons.

The larger disc appears to support the button "fingers" above the button "shorting pad". The large disc is the mystery, but is likely some material between the two big metal discs. The big circuit traces likely go to the discs, to either supply voltage to them (to unlock, or soften the material between them), or sense voltage from them (sensing degree of pressure). In other words, the material between those discs probably has an electromechanical property, and forms the "springs" or "sponges" that support the display. Piezos are usually in that same form, but it's impossible to tell what they really are from the pics.

Piezos can sense teeeeny variations in pressure. If you have four under a rectangular panel, it would be simple to triangulate the position of at least two pressure points just by looking at the difference in pressures (voltages) from the 4 piezos. But then why are there traditional buttons as well?
I agree. The white pannels have electrodes at the circular tip above the disc. Those are resistive gauges for sure.
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