[gitchies]

funny thread...someone had too much time on their hands to even start this thread...nothing is perfect, defects here and there. its like buying a car, could blow a fuse the first day....buying a dvd player, it could malfunction...what are are you going to do.

[SarahBara9196]

OP: My eye hurts.

Reply 1: You must be the only one having trouble with your eye. My eye has worked since day one.

Reply 2: Another useless eye thread.

Reply 3: I'm so sick of these "my eye hurt" threads. I mean, it really makes me physically sick and upset. I actually need a doctor now. I may even beat my wife.

Reply 4: If you don't like your eye, take it back and go get an iEye.

I don't get it.

[bigman2]

Regardless of what ppl think of the OP in this thread, these threads are symptoms of the overall problem... RIM/VZW shipped a buggy phone. They knew it was a buggy phone when they decided to ship it. Even after an update, it's still a buggy phone.

Well, RIM/VZW was in a very unenviable position with the Storm. All the new tech in the phone probably meant that the usual development lead time RIM's developers get wasn't really sufficient in this case. However, the carriers (and it's not just VZW, but Vodaphone over on the other side of the pond) were likely pushing to have this phone released in time for all the holiday buying. It's an especially sweet deal if people buy a phone a month or two in advance, and then never use it because it's intended as a gift, so they're paying for service and not even using it. Anyway, the carriers wanted to get something out in time for the holidays, and if they delayed the phone any longer, they may as well have just delayed it by another year. Of course if they did that, then not only would the mobile press be smearing them up one side and down the other, but people on forums like this one would be b!tching about it as well.

So really, no matter what they did, they were screwed. In the end, I'm sure they decided it's better to be d@mned if you do (this idiotic profanity filter is really getting obnoxious) and make some money on holiday sales.

At least in the case of the Storm, like other BB phones, there will be a steady stream of updates coming along to fix things. Apple tends to release updates for the Jesus Phone when it's good and ready, not a moment before. People are fortunate for the work of the "jailbreak" devs, since they tend to force Apple's hand at releasing minor updates much quicker. Then there's Windows Mobile where it might be years before Microsoft releases a new version of the OS, and then there's no real guarantee that will be workable with your phone. And let's not forget the feature phones, where firmware updates can take several months, and might only fix a dozen or so issues.

IMO, if you see a complaint thread, it's best to either try to address the posted issue or don't reply at all. Thus, legitimate posters may get the help they need while trolls will just get empty threads.

And if this were a complaint thread, I'd agree, but it wasn't. I'm kind of divided on whether it was just someone seeking attention or if the OP is just one of those people who whines and complains about everything.

[mulder]

I don't get it.

[mulder]

So really, no matter what they did, they were screwed.

I think the jury will be out until we see some sale figures. My gut tells me that in the long run, I will make more money if I ship a great phone after christmas than if I ship a buggy phone before christmas. I think the original iphone shipped in June/July...

On the other hand, if I thought that my phone would always be buggy, I would ship it before christmas.

And if this were a complaint thread, I'd agree, but it wasn't. I'm kind of divided on whether it was just someone seeking attention or if the OP is just one of those people who whines and complains about everything.

[BzB]

jerk? am i saying anything that is wrong?

yes. you're saying that rim and/or vzw won't fix or address bugs on the storm. that's not true. they've already released an updated OS and there's more to come.

and the part about being a **** might have been a little rough, but you started this thread by making an antagonistic statement that's not rooted in reality. based on rim's long history they WILL address these bugs.

all i want is a working phone! and my point is simple: some of the things that are wrong are so blatantly obvious. Can you debate that?

fair enough. there are bugs. although i will say the core functionality that the bb is for works fine for me. bes integration with the exchange server does exactly what it's supposed to. the phone works fine.

the only issue (i think) is people getting used to the gui and touchscreen interface on the phone. it was a learning curve for me, but after two weeks i'm good to go with basic functions. i've been using a bb since the 7230 model and i left a curve to get the storm. having the new consumer based features from the multimedia aspect makes it an even more atttractive device for me.

My point is simple: The phone is not up to par by OUR standards (evident by many threads of complaints not by me but by you guys) and we want it fixed.

what standard? a perfect jesus phone? i don't expect any device to be that. my standard is having the phone do what a bb normally does (email and phone calls) and it does that just fine. and with a beautiful screen i might add.

i think the issues people do have are with the bells and whistles. in that aspect you have some legitimate complaints. the storm was created to be a bells and whistle device for bb users that wanted more. in that aspect they've missed the target some. but personally the only problem i have is getting video camera to save/replay videos. pictures, web browsing, music playing, all of that works fine. the only other issues i have are with 3rd party apps that are still being developed and optimized for the storm.

jAt the end of the day, think what you want of my opinion but we are all in the same boat and would like the storm to function as was advertised, described, and how blackberrys should be

agreed. the storm's OS definitely needs more work and some of the perks they've added just aren't very stable yet. our difference of opinion is that i believe rim and vzw will address these issues and the storm will mature into a powerful smart phone that can also be a lot of fun (hopefully in short order).

[1magine]

OP: My eye hurts.

Reply 1: You must be the only one having trouble with your eye. My eye has worked since day one.

Reply 2: Another useless eye thread.

Reply 3: I'm so sick of these "my eye hurt" threads. I mean, it really makes me physically sick and upset. I actually need a doctor now. I may even beat my wife.

Reply 4: If you don't like your eye, take it back and go get an iEye.

OMG - thanks - laughed so hard.

[bigman2]

I think the jury will be out until we see some sale figures. My gut tells me that in the long run, I will make more money if I ship a great phone after christmas than if I ship a buggy phone before christmas. I think the original iphone shipped in June/July...

Considering they sold out of their initial supply before noon on the first day, and they've been scrambling to fill orders ever since, that suggests some pretty good sales. I know when I got my Storm, I went down to the local store to get an ESN swap done, and while the poor (but very cute) CS rep was trying to figure out why the second phone wasn't activating, probably at least 2-3 different people were asking about buying a Storm. This was a day or two after thanksgiving.

And Apple is an undisputed master of convincing people they need these overpriced gadgets *** status symbols. And the Jesus Phone was riding the coat tails of the iPod's success. The initial version of the Jesus Phone was really not much more than tacking on a rather poor phone to the iPod. It's probably why VZW passed on it when Apple approached them. A bad move in hindsight, but I'm sure from VZW's standpoint it really wasn't that compelling of a device at the time.

But, my marketing background says to me that the most likely reason here was the carriers wanted to release the phone to take advantage of holiday buying. RIM probably would have been happy to hold back the launch a little longer, but the carriers wanted to have some new phone for the christmas buying season. Even if they end up buying some other phone, they just wanted something to get people into the stores.

On the other hand, if I thought that my phone would always be buggy, I would ship it before christmas.

It's often used as a kind of blanket excuse by apologists, but there is a lot of truth to the notion that complex programs are invariably going to have bugs. Think of it like trying to write something like The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire by hand and never once misspelling anything, using incorrect punctuation, or making any other kind of grammatical error. Companies like Microsoft tend to be very quick to use this excuse for gross oversights on their part, but the majority of the issues people report with the Storm are really pretty minor. The random rebooting bit seems to be the worst of it, and quite frankly that sounds like defective hardware. I'm running the same code they are (well, I have .76, but it's not significantly different) and my phone doesn't reboot unless I tell it to. Computers are the same way. You try running any operating system on defective hardware, it's going to be problematic at best.

I think RIM has generally set the bar so high with its past phones, that when they had to devote more time to implementing things like the touch screen thus allowing some smaller bugs to go unfixed, people get upset. People with other phones might see it as a luxury that these things are our biggest complaints.

I don't really find myself running into these bugs very often. The camera's a little slow, so what? Get a real camera if you take a lot of pictures. The OS lags a little... Again, so what? Why are we so obsessed with getting one thing done when it's only so we can get started on the next thing? Take it as an opportunity to have an extra second or two to consider your response to an email or text, or to look up and take note of the world around you. Relish the journey, don't focus on the destination. The random reboot thing is something worth getting annoyed over, and I would say people with this problem should be looking to get a replacement. Otherwise, people just need to relax a little and remember it's just a cell phone. There are a number of things in this world far more deserving of your ire.

[jakeh0]

Considering they sold out of their initial supply before noon on the first day, and they've been scrambling to fill orders ever since, that suggests some pretty good sales. I know when I got my Storm, I went down to the local store to get an ESN swap done, and while the poor (but very cute) CS rep was trying to figure out why the second phone wasn't activating, probably at least 2-3 different people were asking about buying a Storm. This was a day or two after thanksgiving.

And Apple is an undisputed master of convincing people they need these overpriced gadgets *** status symbols. And the Jesus Phone was riding the coat tails of the iPod's success. The initial version of the Jesus Phone was really not much more than tacking on a rather poor phone to the iPod. It's probably why VZW passed on it when Apple approached them. A bad move in hindsight, but I'm sure from VZW's standpoint it really wasn't that compelling of a device at the time.

But, my marketing background says to me that the most likely reason here was the carriers wanted to release the phone to take advantage of holiday buying. RIM probably would have been happy to hold back the launch a little longer, but the carriers wanted to have some new phone for the christmas buying season. Even if they end up buying some other phone, they just wanted something to get people into the stores.



It's often used as a kind of blanket excuse by apologists, but there is a lot of truth to the notion that complex programs are invariably going to have bugs. Think of it like trying to write something like The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire by hand and never once misspelling anything, using incorrect punctuation, or making any other kind of grammatical error. Companies like Microsoft tend to be very quick to use this excuse for gross oversights on their part, but the majority of the issues people report with the Storm are really pretty minor. The random rebooting bit seems to be the worst of it, and quite frankly that sounds like defective hardware. I'm running the same code they are (well, I have .76, but it's not significantly different) and my phone doesn't reboot unless I tell it to. Computers are the same way. You try running any operating system on defective hardware, it's going to be problematic at best.

I think RIM has generally set the bar so high with its past phones, that when they had to devote more time to implementing things like the touch screen thus allowing some smaller bugs to go unfixed, people get upset. People with other phones might see it as a luxury that these things are our biggest complaints.

I don't really find myself running into these bugs very often. The camera's a little slow, so what? Get a real camera if you take a lot of pictures. The OS lags a little... Again, so what? Why are we so obsessed with getting one thing done when it's only so we can get started on the next thing? Take it as an opportunity to have an extra second or two to consider your response to an email or text, or to look up and take note of the world around you. Relish the journey, don't focus on the destination. The random reboot thing is something worth getting annoyed over, and I would say people with this problem should be looking to get a replacement. Otherwise, people just need to relax a little and remember it's just a cell phone. There are a number of things in this world far more deserving of your ire.

[mulder]

Considering they sold out of their initial supply before noon on the first day, and they've been scrambling to fill orders ever since, that suggests some pretty good sales.

I don't know how many phones were available. I don't know how many phones vzw/rim projected to sell. I don't know how many were returned or exchanged. I don't know how much it cost vzw/rim to develop, produce, and market this phone. So on the notion that vzw/rim were screwed whether they shipped a buggy phone now or a finished phone later, the jury is still out. Frankly, I think the storm sells out in march like it sold out in november.

It's often used as a kind of blanket excuse by apologists, but there is a lot of truth to the notion that complex programs are invariably going to have bugs.

And it follows that the program developer can chose to ship or not ship a program that has many bugs. I develop software for a living and I often see applications delpoyed that are less than 100%. That's why you classify software defects in different categories (critical, high, medium, low, etc.). To me, having a significant amount of phones randomly reboot is a critical defect and I would never put software like that into production. But that's just me.

I don't really find myself running into these bugs very often.

Just know that other ppl are running into these bugs often enough to complain and eventually return the phone.

[bigman2]

I don't know how many phones were available. I don't know how many phones vzw/rim projected to sell. I don't know how many were returned or exchanged. I don't know how much it cost vzw/rim to develop, produce, and market this phone. So on the notion that vzw/rim were screwed whether they shipped a buggy phone now or a finished phone later, the jury is still out. Frankly, I think the storm sells out in march like it sold out in november.

Economics 101: A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow.

It may have sold just as well a few months from now, but there are a lot of associated costs that the carriers and RIM would have to swallow. And it's not just about selling the Storm, it's about getting people into the store. Major retailers have been doing this for years, and they call it a loss leader. They advertise some product at below their own cost with the hope that people will come in looking for that product and buy other stuff at the same time.

So Joe Q. Public walks into his local VZW store, finds out the Storm is sold out, looks around at the other phones and accessories, walks out the owner of a new Curve. Along with say a car charger, extra battery, charge/sync cradle, etc.

And it follows that the program developer can chose to ship or not ship a program that has many bugs. I develop software for a living and I often see applications delpoyed that are less than 100%. That's why you classify software defects in different categories (critical, high, medium, low, etc.). To me, having a significant amount of phones randomly reboot is a critical defect and I would never put software like that into production. But that's just me.

Yes, but as I'm sure you're aware, developers don't really get to say when a product will or won't be released. It's management and the marketing department that decide that. RIM's code monkeys probably did the best they could given the amount of time they had, but it was out of their hands when the release date was set.

I would love for companies to be able to have all the time they need to work out the kinks from products, and I loathe the mentality of "we'll just fix it later" that is so pervasive these days. But people today have the attention span of a gnat with fast food, TV, the Internet, and all the other sources of instant gratification out there. They don't want to wait an extra 3-6 months because a product needs a little more time in development, they want it NOW. Then they complain when it's not perfect.

Just know that other ppl are running into these bugs often enough to complain and eventually return the phone.

Most of the serious bugs strike me more as hardware defects is the thing. Those I completely agree should be sent back for replacements. Most everything else I've seen is people complaining about petty things. Like the Storm isn't exactly like the Jesus Phone only better, why can't the Storm be exactly like the Jesus Phone only better?

You just have this big group of people who think that RIM just slapped together the Storm from scratch 6 months ago. You have people saying things like, "With the price of RAM these days, I don't see why RIM only put in 128MB," with absolutely no concept of the problems it would create for developers if RIM altered the design spec of a unit already in production. You also get people who say things like, "Why doesn't RIM add a GPU?" Never mind that most of these people don't even know what a GPU is, or how it would impact the cost or battery life of the Storm. So few people have even the slightest of clues what goes into making a device like the Storm, but this doesn't stop them from thinking that they know how to do things better than RIM.

There are some very legitimate problems with the Storm... Most of them are software based and CAN be fixed in future updates. How long until they are addressed, or if they even are, has yet to be seen. Some of them appear to be hardware based, and those problems are very deserving of replacement phones.

[BzB]

the number of people returning the phone seem to be in line with similar new to the market devices. i also think part of the dissatisfaction is not because of the bugs or shortcomings, but attributed to the high learning curve and amount of time/patience it takes to get acquainted with the storm. i mean, a touchscreen bb? really? when it was first speculated i had to check myself, because many bb purists would never think a touchscreen bb could ever have a place in the business market. i was wrong because there's a lot of people in the business world that not only work hard, but play hard. the storm is the device for us.

as for rushing this phone to market, i think they did. it just wasn't fully baked yet which is why they're scrambling to get OS updates out. i also think they wanted to release the storm in time for the holiday rush. consumer spending is already off and the forecast for next year won't be better. to get as many sales in as they can right now was the plan. they figured people would be pleased enough with the device in it's current state and could wait for the (mostly) minor bugs to be fixed. personally i'm fine with the device being at about 85% ready and i'm almost giddy at being able to realize the next 10 to 15% of functionality left on the table.

[bigman2]

Nothing says, "Look at me! I'm a dork obsessed with a crappy 80s TV show!" faster than a picture of good old Captin Q-Ball. Now all we need is a good Star Wars reference to complete the circle of shame.

[Fyrecracker]

Nothing says, "Look at me! I'm a dork obsessed with a crappy 80s TV show!" faster than a picture of good old Captin Q-Ball. Now all we need is a good Star Wars reference to complete the circle of shame.

how about this?...best i could do

[czm2000]

I'm sure it's been said, but I have zero will to read through this entire thread.

Didn't Verizon/RIM recently release an update/upgrade for the Curve? If after the release of the holy Storm their still releasing updates for previous models, why would they stop releasing updates for the Storm after the 8900 is released?

To ASSume that Verizon will toss future updates aside due to future models is a pretty naive hypothesis.

[coilone]

I'm sure it's been said, but I have zero will to read through this entire thread.

Didn't Verizon/RIM recently release an update/upgrade for the Curve? If after the release of the holy Storm their still releasing updates for previous models, why would they stop releasing updates for the Storm after the 8900 is released?

To ASSume that Verizon will toss future updates aside due to future models is a pretty naive hypothesis.

well said!

[mulder]

Economics 101: A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow.

I took economics over 10 years ago and don't remember this notion. My work experience tells me that it costs money to provide support a buggy product. Calls to CSRs, calls to level 2 support, visits to the local vzw store, returns, exchanges, refurbishings, etc. all cost money. If I ship a product that is not buggy, I save all of that support money. Thus, we are still where we were several posts ago... Does the additional christmas sales out weight the cost of shipping a buggy phone.

So Joe Q. Public walks into his local VZW store, finds out the Storm is sold out, looks around at the other phones and accessories, walks out the owner of a new Curve. Along with say a car charger, extra battery, charge/sync cradle, etc.

And Vzw and Rim still makes money.

Yes, but as I'm sure you're aware, developers don't really get to say when a product will or won't be released.

I'm not talking about the guys writing code. I'm talking about the business owner who decied to allow critical defects to go into production.

Most of the serious bugs strike me more as hardware defects is the thing. Those I completely agree should be sent back for replacements. Most everything else I've seen is people complaining about petty things. Like the Storm isn't exactly like the Jesus Phone only better, why can't the Storm be exactly like the Jesus Phone only better?

What is petty to some is critical to others. I just don't see how ppl can ignore all of the bad published reviews and bad customer feedback and consider any complaints as petty.

[mulder]

I'm sure it's been said, but I have zero will to read through this entire thread.

Didn't Verizon/RIM recently release an update/upgrade for the Curve? If after the release of the holy Storm their still releasing updates for previous models, why would they stop releasing updates for the Storm after the 8900 is released?

To ASSume that Verizon will toss future updates aside due to future models is a pretty naive hypothesis.

Doesn't vzw have a number of smart phones with defects that have never been fixed? Does the vzw pearl still leak memory like the titanic leaked ocean water?