1. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    Not sure what your quoting here man as svg files for blackberries are created using composer, which is a RIM distributed free program. They distribute it with the sole intent of developers using it to create themes, which RIM then sells and distributes in app world themselves. That being said I would think all the fonts included would be fine to use, otherwise whats the point of distributing the program. If it was not okay RIM would not be selling said themes in their own app store, we know they get sued enough. As for graphics my partner and I create all of the graphics used in our themes, and anyone selling icons and other graphics are using free open source graphics. You can find a ton of these with just a simple Google search. Some of these icons you have to pay for and some are free to use for whatever purpose you would like. They all come with a txt file that tells you just that. I have never used any graphics that were not open source, free to use as you please, as well as most of the good theme developers here. If you are using your above statements as justification of piracy of themes they you logic is greatly flawed.
    You're screenshots for the "MoodBerry" theme tell a different story. Besides using images and likeness belonging to Microsoft and Apple, you're using folder icons released under the GPL. Every Moodberry theme you have sold or even given away must have a full copy of that license attached. You did this right? I'll let Apple and Microsoft worry about their license, but I'll forward a link to this thread to the original developer who released the GPL icons you are using. We have to protect developers right?

    Flawed logic? Piracy? You interpret your violation of the Gnu Public License however you would like, but you'll get no sympathy from me when your stolen graphics get stolen by someone else.

    Once you hand edit your SVG files, they are no longer wholly created by Plazmic composer and are outside of the RIM blanket. You'll have to read the terms and conditions you agreed to if you want to see what is required when you make changes to RIM's source.

    The fonts bundled into Plazmic Theme Builder were clearly developed by Adobe and HP. I would certainly think RIM has licensed them to be released by users of their software, but if I were trying to profit from their use I would check the terms and be familiar with them, rather than plead ignorance.

    And I wasn't going to start naming examples or names. But since you spoke up....
    01-11-10 12:38 PM
  2. Sparkmaster's Avatar
    I think you have the wrong idea about UK laws and ISP Terms of Service. Reputable UK ISPs will act against sites hosting warez or users engaged in illegal file sharing.

    In most cases the site will pull the offending content on request from the owner (just like we do here on CB - we can't check every member upload) but if that doesn't work a little effort to locate the upstream provider can be *very* productive if they are approached right.
    Like I mentioned, There was a news report but I couldn't remember which country it was that has no laws to it.. I spit out UK because for about 6 - 8 years now, i been a member to a site from the UK that has everything in the world from simple hows your family doing topic to any software or movie you like.. never has that site been shut down..

    Anyways, im moving on but would like to ask each and everyone of you that is complaining, Have you ever downloaded a MP3 file without paying for it?? Bet pretty much everyone has..
    01-11-10 01:55 PM
  3. wanderer82680's Avatar
    You're screenshots for the "MoodBerry" theme tell a different story. Besides using images and likeness belonging to Microsoft and Apple, you're using folder icons released under the GPL. Every Moodberry theme you have sold or even given away must have a full copy of that license attached. You did this right? I'll let Apple and Microsoft worry about their license, but I'll forward a link to this thread to the original developer who released the GPL icons you are using. We have to protect developers right?

    Flawed logic? Piracy? You interpret your violation of the Gnu Public License however you would like, but you'll get no sympathy from me when your stolen graphics get stolen by someone else.

    Once you hand edit your SVG files, they are no longer wholly created by Plazmic composer and are outside of the RIM blanket. You'll have to read the terms and conditions you agreed to if you want to see what is required when you make changes to RIM's source.

    The fonts bundled into Plazmic Theme Builder were clearly developed by Adobe and HP. I would certainly think RIM has licensed them to be released by users of their software, but if I were trying to profit from their use I would check the terms and be familiar with them, rather than plead ignorance.

    And I wasn't going to start naming examples or names. But since you spoke up....
    First off I don't plead ignorance to anything. The folders you speak of are distributed on multiple sites WITH permission to edit and use for commercial use. This is part of your beloved gpl you speak so much of. Also part of the gpl, you do NOT have to distribute a copy of the gpl with every copy sold ... just a link where the information is publicly accessible. Of course that is if the program/icon in question was not released for commercial use.

    Also the hand editing of the svg code is nothing that can not be accomplished in the program. I am just more accustomed to editing it command line versus gui. Having a degree in computing programming myself, editing code is editing code, the code is still being used for it intended purpose. Not and issue.

    Also considering RIM has invested untold millions into their app world which they have included themes created using this software, wouldn't you think the font files are not an issue. I mean come on ... really.
    01-11-10 06:08 PM
  4. ahaz86's Avatar
    just a little heads up, if your premium theme is posted in appworld then technically RIM owns the theme in a sense. We have contacted RIM's legal department about sites like the one you are talking about and RIM can actually contact them and have a little more weight behind them.
    01-11-10 06:50 PM
  5. wanderer82680's Avatar
    just a little heads up, if your premium theme is posted in appworld then technically RIM owns the theme in a sense. We have contacted RIM's legal department about sites like the one you are talking about and RIM can actually contact them and have a little more weight behind them.
    thanks ahaz, we are currently in the final stages of getting some of our themes on app world. Once that is complete I will email them. Thanks again man
    01-11-10 07:50 PM
  6. Jerry Hildenbrand's Avatar
    First off I don't plead ignorance to anything. The folders you speak of are distributed on multiple sites WITH permission to edit and use for commercial use. This is part of your beloved gpl you speak so much of. Also part of the gpl, you do NOT have to distribute a copy of the gpl with every copy sold ... just a link where the information is publicly accessible. Of course that is if the program/icon in question was not released for commercial use.

    Also the hand editing of the svg code is nothing that can not be accomplished in the program. I am just more accustomed to editing it command line versus gui. Having a degree in computing programming myself, editing code is editing code, the code is still being used for it intended purpose. Not and issue.

    Also considering RIM has invested untold millions into their app world which they have included themes created using this software, wouldn't you think the font files are not an issue. I mean come on ... really.

    Code:
    You may convey verbatim or modified copies of the source as you
    receive it, in any medium, provided that you conspicuously and
    appropriately publish on each copy an appropriate copyright notice;
    keep intact all notices stating that this License and any
    non-permissive terms added in accord with section 7 apply to the code;
    keep intact all notices of the absence of any warranty; and give all
    recipients a copy of this License along with the Program.
    That also applies to downstream works derived from the original. And no where, in any shape or form does the GPL stop applying if you release a work for commercial use.

    I say your modified version of folder icons released under the GPL still need to abide by the terms of the GPL. Are you saying something different? Should I go further and mention that if the said works are used as a portion of a user interface that a prominent menu item leading to the terms and conditions of the software license must appear on the interface? Those particular icons were created and originally distributed by a very strong supporter of the free software foundation. Just because another party distributed them to you incorrectly does not absolve you from following the terms of their original license.

    The rest of my nit-picking was/is simply to reinforce the idea that most theme publishers have no idea what they do and do not hold copyright or responsibility on. RIM is no longer responsible nor are they the sole licensee of the source when you hand edit a svg file created by their software. The person redistributing works derived on RIM's license to use Adobe TTF materials should know exactly what the terms and conditions of the license are. Responsibility comes with the territory.

    This is widespread. As I said, I was not trying to single anyone out originally. You at least seem to have a grasp on the free as in beer and share and share alike ideas I'm talking about. That makes you better than most in this area. Nobody (not even myself when I'm being an ignorant ****) thinks you really need to have a link to the GPL on every menu, or that you should force a user to gnu.org before they can download your theme. I'd bet that the original author of the icons would be pleased with the way youre using them, especially since you aren't trying to claim them as your own. I'm just making a point that some house cleaning is in order for MANY theme makers.

    And for the record - I'm biased as h e ll. Some self inflated pay theme maker(s?) took offense when I started letting others know how simple svg tricks were done. When I explained how one could edit the settings files on Plazmic to unlock features for older devices, they went to RIM and I got a nastygram, which I completely ignored. It did sour me though, and I can see it shows.

    I should have read some of your postings on this site, looked at your work, and realized that YOU (IMO) didn't need my lecture and passed. On the flip side, I did state that I wasn't pointing the finger at everyone, so you could have passed as well

    I suggest you keep making themes and offering them at a fair price, and I'll direct my juvenile sniping at those who deserve it. Sound good?

    Also for the record - I don't support software theft in any way shape or form, and I think that shows.
    01-11-10 08:30 PM
  7. jlsparks's Avatar
    Let me begin by saying that I do NOT in any way support any site that basically cheats and steals dev's themes to give away free. That sucks, and the developer's hard work should always be rewarded.

    Here's a question, and I don't know if it's been broached yet, but for the most part, I only download free themes, because I rarely keep one for very long, and usually the screenshots are not enough for me to decide to use one regularly.

    I am usually amused by certain properties, and impressed by the technical abilities of a theme above and beyond what precision zen does.

    The question: Wouldn't it make sense for the premium themes to be time-capped, say work for 2 days, and then be unlockable by a purchase for forever use? That way, a potential buyer could try a theme for a time, see if it wiorks, and if they really like it, buy and have it forever?

    I can usually tell within 10 minutes of a theme's activation if it is something I'd really use, and any price would seem silly for that amount of time.

    Also, as someone who has owned many different phones and love the idea of changing them up (i've used the n-Gage taco, communicators, Treos, blackberrys, etc) I am looking to always go to the next technically-advanced device.
    I'm currently waiting out my Storm's contract until I can consider an Android device or WebOS. So the themes on a Storm are fun, and certainly satisfy in the interim, but not necessarily worth paying for short term UI advances.


    Again, much respect to developers who devote tons of time to their craft!!
    I completely agree. In fact, I posed a similar question way back <--- in this thread.

    $7 isn't a lot of money. But $7 twice a month does add up. When all that you (the developers) give us prior to purchase are a handful of screenies, maybe a short YouTube video, and a thread with comments (the bulk of which are often from your beta testers, at least right after the theme's been released), can you blame us (your consumers), at being frustrated when we shell out the money and the theme isn't what we were expecting?

    I'm not implying that anyone is misleading anyone else. There's just only so much you can do with screenies and a short vid. You, and we, would all be far better served if a 1 day or so trial period for premium themes was offered. I find it difficult to believe, frankly, that you can't either clock your themes from download to expiry, or key your free trial themes and your final themes such that it's most difficult to pirate them. I've always paid full boat for premium themes; I always donate generously to those who accept donations, and I've used plenty of free theme. Like the poster above I know within minutes of the theme being installed on my device whether it'll do what I need it to do or not.

    Failing to come up with a trial process does a disservice to you, as developers, and us, as your prospective consumers.

    And to those who would summarily dismiss this by saying 'oh you can't key a theme', I'd challenge you to develop an app to do just that. I'll even donate to support its development. PM me.
    01-11-10 08:45 PM
  8. wanderer82680's Avatar
    Code:
    You may convey verbatim or modified copies of the source as you
    receive it, in any medium, provided that you conspicuously and
    appropriately publish on each copy an appropriate copyright notice;
    keep intact all notices stating that this License and any
    non-permissive terms added in accord with section 7 apply to the code;
    keep intact all notices of the absence of any warranty; and give all
    recipients a copy of this License along with the Program.
    That also applies to downstream works derived from the original. And no where, in any shape or form does the GPL stop applying if you release a work for commercial use.

    I say your modified version of folder icons released under the GPL still need to abide by the terms of the GPL. Are you saying something different? Should I go further and mention that if the said works are used as a portion of a user interface that a prominent menu item leading to the terms and conditions of the software license must appear on the interface? Those particular icons were created and originally distributed by a very strong supporter of the free software foundation. Just because another party distributed them to you incorrectly does not absolve you from following the terms of their original license.

    The rest of my nit-picking was/is simply to reinforce the idea that most theme publishers have no idea what they do and do not hold copyright or responsibility on. RIM is no longer responsible nor are they the sole licensee of the source when you hand edit a svg file created by their software. The person redistributing works derived on RIM's license to use Adobe TTF materials should know exactly what the terms and conditions of the license are. Responsibility comes with the territory.

    This is widespread. As I said, I was not trying to single anyone out originally. You at least seem to have a grasp on the free as in beer and share and share alike ideas I'm talking about. That makes you better than most in this area. Nobody (not even myself when I'm being an ignorant ****) thinks you really need to have a link to the GPL on every menu, or that you should force a user to gnu.org before they can download your theme. I'd bet that the original author of the icons would be pleased with the way youre using them, especially since you aren't trying to claim them as your own. I'm just making a point that some house cleaning is in order for MANY theme makers.

    And for the record - I'm biased as h e ll. Some self inflated pay theme maker(s?) took offense when I started letting others know how simple svg tricks were done. When I explained how one could edit the settings files on Plazmic to unlock features for older devices, they went to RIM and I got a nastygram, which I completely ignored. It did sour me though, and I can see it shows.

    I should have read some of your postings on this site, looked at your work, and realized that YOU (IMO) didn't need my lecture and passed. On the flip side, I did state that I wasn't pointing the finger at everyone, so you could have passed as well

    I suggest you keep making themes and offering them at a fair price, and I'll direct my juvenile sniping at those who deserve it. Sound good?

    Also for the record - I don't support software theft in any way shape or form, and I think that shows.

    I wont argue you on icons or images, you can interpret the license as you wish ... which is the issue at hand. As I said the icons use where distributed as freeware open for commercial use and thats what I did with it. This is the problem with things of this nature, it is complete up to the interpretation of the reader. There are pages and pages to that license you are quoting (which is on it third revision if I am correct it not more). We could quote different pieces over and over and still get nowhere.

    As for the svg file you are completely wrong. I create the svg file from scratch period. It is my creation as it is simply lines of codes that I create specifically for my themes. Therefore I am not modifying anything ... I am creating. You can agree or disagree as you please, I personally do not give a rats a** any longer. I know my themes are just fine
    01-11-10 08:57 PM
  9. mechanizedmedic's Avatar
    “We want people who hate to lose, like myself. Now marinate on that.” -- Snoop Dogg

    ...thank you Snoop... thank you.
    01-12-10 06:15 PM
  10. parkerstorm's Avatar
    i just want everyone to know how real this effects us....

    this site let my 2.00 theme be downloaded over 100 times in one night.
    WHAT IS 2.00 FOR A THEME? MOST SELL FOR 6 or 7!
    That's $200.00 worst case I would have gotten 60% of that for a total of 120.00.
    Not much money right?

    1 24oz Can of Formula = $24.52 here.
    Do the math that is 5 cans of formula,
    that would have fed my child for a nice period of time.

    Please stop stealing our work,
    we are REAL people with REAL families to take care of.

    Think it's okay to steal? Look at it however you want, your stealing from someone.....
    01-12-10 07:24 PM
  11. Rooster's Avatar
    Yes the question of a trial version for themes was asked and answered by me personally.

    I personally would like nothing more than to be able to offer trials for themes but it just cant be dont because the software RIM provides for theme development does not allow for it.

    The question of whether themes can be PIN specific and have activation codes was also asked and answered. It simple cannot be done.

    Most of us wish it was otherwise but right now that's all it is... a wish.

    I completely agree. In fact, I posed a similar question way back <--- in this thread.

    $7 isn't a lot of money. But $7 twice a month does add up. When all that you (the developers) give us prior to purchase are a handful of screenies, maybe a short YouTube video, and a thread with comments (the bulk of which are often from your beta testers, at least right after the theme's been released), can you blame us (your consumers), at being frustrated when we shell out the money and the theme isn't what we were expecting?

    I'm not implying that anyone is misleading anyone else. There's just only so much you can do with screenies and a short vid. You, and we, would all be far better served if a 1 day or so trial period for premium themes was offered. I find it difficult to believe, frankly, that you can't either clock your themes from download to expiry, or key your free trial themes and your final themes such that it's most difficult to pirate them. I've always paid full boat for premium themes; I always donate generously to those who accept donations, and I've used plenty of free theme. Like the poster above I know within minutes of the theme being installed on my device whether it'll do what I need it to do or not.

    Failing to come up with a trial process does a disservice to you, as developers, and us, as your prospective consumers.

    And to those who would summarily dismiss this by saying 'oh you can't key a theme', I'd challenge you to develop an app to do just that. I'll even donate to support its development. PM me.
    01-12-10 07:35 PM
  12. jlsparks's Avatar
    Yes the question of a trial version for themes was asked and answered by me personally.

    I personally would like nothing more than to be able to offer trials for themes but it just cant be dont because the software RIM provides for theme development does not allow for it.

    The question of whether themes can be PIN specific and have activation codes was also asked and answered. It simple cannot be done.

    Most of us wish it was otherwise but right now that's all it is... a wish.
    It's unclear to me why that would be the case. Looking back at my apps/themes purchased I see that both Quadratic, Slideberry, invisberry, and (ironically) Ozone all came replete with activation codes. I have't reinstalled any of these themes to see if the code is required, but I assume it is (otherwise why push it out?)

    So again, if there is really no way to PIN themes, so be it. Know that I really am on y'alls side on this. I'm just trying to see if there's any way to meet the needs you have in protecting your IP, while better meeting your customers' needs.
    01-12-10 07:59 PM
  13. Rooster's Avatar
    No doubt. I hear you on that. The codes that we assign for our themes just helps us keep track of versions in the event that they might need to be updated and to help us differentiate OS versions. Not much more than this.

    I know you are a bit supporter of our work and our whole team is most grateful. I really do wish that trials and codes were available for themes and not just as a rhetoric for shriments sake.

    Believe me my intent in my response to you was sincere and genuine. We want the same things you want and simply put we know we wouldn't be able to do what we do with us much enjoyment without folks like yourself.

    Cheers


    It's unclear to me why that would be the case. Looking back at my apps/themes purchased I see that both Quadratic, Slideberry, invisberry, and (ironically) Ozone all came replete with activation codes. I have't reinstalled any of these themes to see if the code is required, but I assume it is (otherwise why push it out?)

    So again, if there is really no way to PIN themes, so be it. Know that I really am on y'alls side on this. I'm just trying to see if there's any way to meet the needs you have in protecting your IP, while better meeting your customers' needs.
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-12-10 08:28 PM
  14. pkcable's Avatar
    Keep it on topic folks!
    01-13-10 06:22 PM
  15. epicdraws's Avatar
    I may be able to write an app to expire themes. PM me if you are interested and would be willing to pay for such a solution.
    01-14-10 02:44 AM
  16. semmtexx's Avatar
    I hear that the government is going to take over blackberry. Under the new "Obamaberry" themes will be confiscated from developers and evenly distributed amongst Obamaberry users for free... I mean if one user can have a theme but another can't because they can't afford it... well thats just not right.
    01-14-10 06:56 AM
  17. TheMisses's Avatar
    This is for Theme Developers,

    I have come across a site that basically has ALL the primo themes being sold here on CB being given away.

    I would post the link here but I dont want to encourage anyone to go there.

    Please PM and I will send you the link so you all can report the illegal posts.

    Found a bunch f ours already and I am FUMING!

    I JUST LOOKED THRU ALL THE THEME THREADS AND EVERY SINGLE PRIMO THEME HAS BEEN POSTED THERE ILLEGALLY!
    I don't know. MOST developers I have seen here either still are using or have started to develop themes by using illegal versions of the well-known software used to build themes.

    So isn't it, to say the least, a bit hypocritical to now start to condemn other people for hijacking the hijackers? I say: Karma. Plain and simple.

    The hard work is appreciated though... :-)

    Ohw... was that not nice of me? Sorry, didn't mean to be not nice. Just as the hijackers don't mean to steal anything.

    Just a load of blabla from the most here, hypocritical sounds.

    I'm not saying you are, but the ones that are, know very well.

    Also, I like to point out: yep, I bought several themes and other apps for the BB Storm, all of which I found very disappointing, apart from berryweather. So that is cash down the drain. Oh, and I almost forgot, I also donated to some people here for their free themes.

    Just to point out that not every theme that has been downloaded would have sold a copy. Not to mention the amount of illegal versions of photoshop etc that are being used to create them. So I think that a *whole* lot of you should really really really not be itching and moaning, but be gratefull you haven't yet been arrested for copyright infringement yourselves. Be glad you can make a buck for exercising your hobby with illegal copies of your software.

    And if you aren't using those now, then you have in the past. I know not of 1 student who hasn't started out that way, a lot of students who evolved into companies are still using a lot of pirated software. So sorry, I cannot feel grieve for those of you. Only the ones who bought plazmic and learned how to use it themselves, and the ones who are using legal copies of MacOS and Windows (linux is free, so not counting that one right now) AND who bought photoshop etc too, AND create good stuff, THOSE people can report via PM to me, and I will wire you money, after you have shown me the receipts. I do not need a theme in return.

    Speaking about linux... I even BOUGHT a copy of the suse 7.0 linux distro back in the day (before novell dugg its claws into it), just to support the open source community.

    Now, anyone who isn't downloading movies, series, and MP3's and that complies to all of the above, those people have a right to speak.

    That would be?....

    No-One.

    Thanks...

    So, in light of all that, I want to ask again: don't you think its a bit hypocritical to say the least?

    EDIT: sorry, have to correct myself I believe? Plazmic is free these days? I did not know that. I thought it was quite an expensive program to buy, in the past at least. Beta versions were also illegally being used and themes were/are being sold using those versions. So if that has changed, the plazmic part does not currently apply. Although it did in the past and for those that started back then via the same way as I outline above, you have no right to speak out about this. Well, you will, of course. But still... that's karma for ya.
    Last edited by TheMisses; 01-15-10 at 03:37 PM.
    01-15-10 03:32 PM
  18. TheMisses's Avatar
    I may be able to write an app to expire themes. PM me if you are interested and would be willing to pay for such a solution.
    Hahaha, good one!! :-)
    01-15-10 03:38 PM
  19. shankeith's Avatar
    I don't know. MOST developers I have seen here either still are using or have started to develop themes by using illegal versions of the well-known software used to build themes.
    Photoshop...

    anyways, honestly, as a future soft dev
    and current thememaker

    i've always dreamed of someone bootlegging my stuff, its like the biggest compliment

    however as soon as i found out someone made a theme very close to mine and posted it up here for free once just to get back at me for some stupid reason, i quickly reported it, its true that we cant stop this kinds of things, it just kinda happens

    i have 2 forums i usually monitor for these things just in case my themes go up

    (sorry to bring up an old thread like this)
    03-02-10 08:59 PM
  20. kdjayo's Avatar
    It kind of bugs me that TheMisses assumes theme developers pirated photoshop, their copy of windows, and any other programs used to create graphics or themes.

    Honestly? What proof do you have of that?
    03-02-10 10:15 PM
  21. Rooster's Avatar
    It kind of bugs me that TheMisses assumes theme developers pirated photoshop, their copy of windows, and any other programs used to create graphics or themes.

    Honestly? What proof do you have of that?
    none... just suppositions and accusations. she didnt even know that plazmic is a free app!

    and yes, I really was hoping this would go away
    03-02-10 11:31 PM
  22. kdjayo's Avatar
    none... just suppositions and accusations. she didnt even know that plazmic is a free app!

    and yes, I really was hoping this would go away
    Sorry...but I do think its good to be aware of pirated themes...all the other stuff can be tossed and lets just focus on trying to get rid of pirated themes.
    03-02-10 11:51 PM
  23. Rooster's Avatar
    Sorry...but I do think its good to be aware of pirated themes...all the other stuff can be tossed and lets just focus on trying to get rid of pirated themes.
    yes, that's why I posted it in the first place but as you can read, it's taken an ugly turn... justifications for stealing, accusations that all devs are stealers anyway and should have our work stolen, absurd amount of PM requests asking for the site to 'check it out bc I'm so angry"... sigh. I'm tired just reliving the whole experience of this thread. I'm pretty sure I might have asked it to be closed. lol
    03-02-10 11:56 PM
  24. kdjayo's Avatar
    yes, that's why I posted it in the first place but as you can read, it's taken an ugly turn... justifications for stealing, accusations that all devs are stealers anyway and should have our work stolen, absurd amount of PM requests asking for the site to 'check it out bc I'm so angry"... sigh. I'm tired just reliving the whole experience of this thread. I'm pretty sure I might have asked it to be closed. lol
    I see...no further bumps shall be added for now then, my apologies
    03-03-10 12:11 AM
  25. littlegreenmen's Avatar
    Does anyone take into account that the majority of people who respond to this crap are usually kids or those whose minds havent fully grown into adulthood yet? Devs shouldnt be offended by what they read here. Most of you should know how this game works with forum based convo.
    As far as people strealing your stuff, yea its wrong and if you can stop it your well within your right as a creator to protect what you created.
    Only point ive seen on here that made me think theres two sides here is when it comes to downloading movies, music, and apps and such. I myself am guilty of it. I havent paid for music in a long, long time. Common sense says alot here complaining about being stolen from have done the same.
    Just an opinion nothing more.
    03-04-10 01:41 PM
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