[Tavro]

First off, I've been rocking the z10 for over a month now and i think it's an amazing phone and a solid OS, a great starting point for the new BlackBerry. Yet I still use my 9700 as my main communication device bcuz i can't do without my physical keyboard.

Now when the Q10 was first announced i was one of those people who were really disappointed with the removal of the trackpad as its one of my favorite features of the legacy BBOS (never been a fan of touchscreen navigation). But after using BB10 I can see myself living without it as the gestures and overall design work well enough... except for one thing: TEXT SELECTION

Now i know a lot of you will respond that blackberry have improved the selection circle on OS 10.1 but i still really think thats not enough. Its just way too clunky to do a long hold then press select and try to navigate the small start and end points even on the z10's large screen, so it will be worse on the Q10.

Now i don't like complaining just for the sake of it, so i thought up a solution that can be easily implemented into any qwerty device if blackberry would be kind enough to consider adding it as an option for power users who have been frustrated by this (like pretty please add this).

Basically, remember how nice and easy it was to select text by holding down shift and dragging your thumb across the trackpad? This is the same idea but instead of the trackpad you can hold down the shift button and press the lower volume button to select the text after the cursors location (logical because youre going down the text) and press the upper volume button to select text before the cursors position (moving up). One click moves down one letter and longer holds moves faster word by word. This can also be used to move the cursors location back and forth by holding alt and pressing the volume buttons. I like how its also kind of a throwback to the trackwheel, part of BBs identity.

Now I'm not expecting blackberry to add this as a default feature, but having it as an option that can be turned on frm the settings menu would be a great service to their fanbase. It shouldnt be that hard to add since from what ive seen a bluetooth mouse can select text on the z10 by clicking and dragging.

So what do you guys think? If you like the idea please reply so we can get this thread noticed by the people who can make this happen. Its a long shot, but this is crackberry after all so you never know


Posted via CB10

[2cats1dog]

i really like this idea.

it is variation of the 6280 & 7280 - when we used the volume dial (it clicked around) to scroll up and down the screen. combining shift or alt plus the volume scroller allowed you to move around the screen, or highlight text to copy/paste.

i equally miss the trackpad, to the point i will pass on the Q10 if they might offer it on a future handset. But if they implement your ideas as an option, i would consider jumping from Z10 to Q10. Predictive text works great, but I miss keyboard shortcuts, track pad, and being able to type accurately.

[momofteme]

Cool thoughts for sure, but since we are in the touch screen age, how about holding down shift/alt and dragging your finger accross the tex that needs highlited?

like a big giant trackpad?

[Tavro]

Cool thoughts for sure, but since we are in the touch screen age, how about holding down shift/alt and dragging your finger accross the tex that needs highlited?

like a big giant trackpad?

The only issue would be that due to the size of the text on screen, it would be difficult to accurately select the part you want. For me at least the main reason i miss the trackpad is the finesse and accuracy it provided when moving through and selecting text. I find myself wasting a lot of time trying to move back and forth to correct typos when writing on the z10 (happened twice while writing this post). It seems even blackberry have acknowledged the need for improvement by updating the select tool this quickly. I think this solution is relatively easy to implement and provides a good level of tactile accuracy in comparison with the touch screen approach.

Posted via CB10

[knownastron]

Cool thoughts for sure, but since we are in the touch screen age, how about holding down shift/alt and dragging your finger accross the tex that needs highlited?

like a big giant trackpad?

This guy gots it right.

[Bbnivende]

Did not read any Q10 reviews that lamented the loss of the trackpad .. The major issues being the small screen and lack of Apps.

No trackpads were used in this post .

[Tavro]

Did not read any Q10 reviews that lamented the loss of the trackpad .. The major issues being the small screen and lack of Apps.

No trackpads were used in this post .

Well most of the reviewers on tech sites aren't blackberry users to begin with so that they may mention it. That is, except for our very own crackberry, who listed the missing trackpad as a potential issue in their conclusion

Posted via CB10

[drewread]

The only issue would be that due to the size of the text on screen, it would be difficult to accurately select the part you want. For me at least the main reason i miss the trackpad is the finesse and accuracy it provided when moving through and selecting text. I find myself wasting a lot of time trying to move back and forth to correct typos when writing on the z10 (happened twice while writing this post). It seems even blackberry have acknowledged the need for improvement by updating the select tool this quickly. I think this solution is relatively easy to implement and provides a good level of tactile accuracy in comparison with the touch screen approach.

Posted via CB10

I find the current (10.0.01.xxx) selector circle very accurate and easy to use.. what method are you using?

Forget trying to drag that circle, simply tap where you want to edit (which I have gotten quite accurate at, or the ZED has learned to adjust just like the keyboard) and then nudge it if you miss by simply tapping the circle in the direction you want to move the cursor. For example if you miss select by two letters to the right, simply tap the circle twice on the left side of the ring. It will jump two spaces to the left, exactly and accurately. Easy as pie.

Not sure what the big deal with the stretching multi select pin cushions is either, I find them accurate and easy to use.. even with my big thumbs..

I have used all of the BlackBerry selection methods since the click wheel on the 950 and the selection, right up through my 9900, and the copy/paste process on the ZED is just as efficient as any of the others are... I just don't understand everybody's issues.


Yeah.. from the ZED on CB10

[Tavro]

I understand that there are many like you who have no issue with the touch screen method (why else would touch screens be so ubiquitous?). But from the posts I've read i know there are others who find it overly clunky and inaccurate in comparison with the trackpad. I started this thread to simply see if there are enough users who agree to warrant an addition of a similar OPTION and no more. Choice is always good, especially for a device that is built to cater to a very specific type of user. To each his own i guess

Posted via CB10

[Alex_Hong]

Cool thoughts for sure, but since we are in the touch screen age, how about holding down shift/alt and dragging your finger accross the tex that needs highlited?

like a big giant trackpad?

This could work well on the Q10. I like. Tap where you want to start selection, hold shift (like we used to do on BBOS), and then drag the selector.

Posted via CB10

[drewread]

I am that user, I have been selecting text on BlackBerrys for as many years as just about anybody.. BlackBerry 950 (horribly marketed as the 2 way pager) right through to the 9900 and now the Z10.

Yes you need to learn to adapt to the new touch methods, but when you do you will quickly forget the clunky old two handed methods of selecting text. If they can further improve it, then all the better.

It sometimes sucks to need to learn new things, but you have to move on and learn them. the touch pad is another costly component that takes up valuable PCB real estate and it is now gone, same reason as the track wheel went.

Two handed selection using volume rockers and other switches... you're moving back into very old territory (950 & 957 anybody??), so count me in as a 'no thanks', I appreciate BlackBerry finally moving forward and do not want to see them start to go backwards.

Besides, there are many other legacy features that I would rather see them spend their time on resurrecting. Notification granularity anyone???!

Yeah.. from the ZED on CB10

[Tavro]

New methods aren't always better than old ones. And there's no way you can convince me that selecting and removing big chunks of an email for example and then copying the rest to a bbm conversation is more efficient with the new method than it was with the trackpad. You might see it as a step forward with blackberry copying the norm on other handsets, but i see it as a step backwards in terms of efficiency and speed.

Posted via CB10

[evilxkilla]

Cool thoughts for sure, but since we are in the touch screen age, how about holding down shift/alt and dragging your finger accross the tex that needs highlited?

like a big giant trackpad?

I like!

Posted via CB10

[machoman1337]

On the Swype keyboard for Android, the volume keys can be configured to serve as a cursor which sounds similar to what OP suggests.

[usnberry]

I never though about it before but the track pad is one of my favorite features. Also, wish the would have put the BBRY branding between the screen and KB because it looks like it will be awkward yo do the requisite up-swiping.

I'm hoping for a slider this year.
Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express

[Bbnivende]

Watch closely . Let's wait for a month or two after the Q10 has been released to see whether users would have preferred a longer phone with a track pad or a phone with a smaller screen, narrow keyboard with a track pad or the Q10. I am voting for the Q10 because I get by easily without a track pad now but would like a 30% larger screen.

[freedomx20a]

On my windows phone you just tap the word and it highlights.

[imcurved]

Quick tap to bring up the cursor with the bubble. Tap and hold on a word to highlight that word.

Post via CB Z10

[pfluger]

I have been using the Dev Alpha C with its QWERTY keyboard for some time now. Using the bubble and touch is definitely accurate enough for most text editing.

I agree though that sometimes it would be nice to have some keyboard shortcuts for moving the cursor, especially when you want to do edits close to your current edit position. BlackBerry should have added something like ALT+N to move left and ALT+M to move right.

To select characters you can could hold down ALT+SHIFT at the same time. Perfectly doable, just tried it.

BTW, they do support ALT+Backspace to do a forward delete (remove characters right of edit position).

[LostOnThePianoRoll]

I just had a wild thought, was gonna start a thread but then saw this.

So it goes like, first you press anywhere in the text to place your cruser. Then you press the shift key and the lower part of the screen turns into something like the track pad, you can use it to get to where you want to edit.

As for text selection, while in track pad mode you press the alt button and you can use the same method to select text like older blackberrys. When you're done you long press the text to copy or cut.

Note it's shift then alt, because alt then shift is the known numbers only mode combination.

And you don't have to keep holding the buttons down. It will leave an indicator at the top right corner like old bbs with what mode you're in.

As for web pages, note how on the z10 it's a bit too tricky to copy text.

For the Q10 could go something like: when no buttons are pressed, you're in viewing mode.

Press and hold shift then press the area of text. To place your cruser, release shift to go into trackpad mode, precisely find the text you want, press alt to start the text selection.
When done you long press the block of text and you can copy it or search for it on the Internet.

After you copy the text it remains highlighted till you press anywhere else. But you automatically go out of trackpad mode.

While selecting or useing the trackpad mode you can always press shift at anytime to go back to viewing mode.

Another thing is while in trackpad mode the alt and shift keys act as they normally would (numbers & capital letters) as long as you don't touch the lower part of the screen.

Okay i know engeneers can come up with a lot of modifications for this but just thought I'll throw it somewhere before i* forget it

What do you think? Improvement or too confusing?

Posted via CB10

[sam_tek]

Cool thoughts for sure, but since we are in the touch screen age, how about holding down shift/alt and dragging your finger accross the tex that needs highlited?

like a big giant trackpad?

Great thread. And +1 to the above post.

To improvize, you don't even have to drag your finger. It could just be:

1. Touch (the place you'd want to start)
2. Press and hold "Shift" key
3. Touch (after the last letter that you'd want to be highlighted.

And another good use of the trackpad is to select checkboxes. For that, you could substitute the "Tab + Space" combo in windows with an "Alt (or double alt) + space" in bb to select checkboxes.

Now, BB devs, I know you like to read these forums to get feedback on how to improve your BB10. So, how about?

[drewread]

As for web pages, note how on the z10 it's a bit too tricky to copy text.

Web pages are actually the easiest place to select text and i wish all areas worked like this:

Tap and hold text, first word is selected, keep holding and then the paragraph will auto select, keep holding and then the next paragraph auto selects, keep holding and then the next paragraph auto selects.. and so on. Lift finger when done selecting and tap the highlighted text to bring up the menu, then choose copy.

Try it, it is easy as pie.

Yeah.. from the ZED on CB10

[SQN100]

[Omnitech]

On my Verizon Z10 running 10.0.9.2743, it is very inconsistent about when it decides to select and de-select text, when the keyboard pops up or doesn't pop up, whether the keyboard goes away when you still need it, or pops up on top of things you need to see in order to edit what you are trying to edit, etc etc. And inconsistent from app-to-app.

Re: the edit circle, what if you are 1 or 2 characters from the left margin and need to move it one character to the left? You can't just "tap on the left side of the edit circle" because the left side is not visible!

I also find the edit "pincushions" very unreliable. For example, if the text selection needs to move vertically and the line you are on is near the top of the screen, it should scroll the screen down so you can see as you move the selection area higher. It doesn't do that. It also seems to act very unpredictably when you move it around.

Both my 9650 and my old Palm Treo are vastly easier to position the cursor and edit existing text than the Z10. So is my Android tablet, though some of that could be due to the large screen size. I can say that Android 4.0's text selection system seems vastly more stable/predictable than the one on my Z10. The Z10's text-editing capability is almost as bad as the original Palm Pre was, and that was a key reason I returned that device less than a month after I bought it.

I think there are a variety of creative things that could be done to assist the text editing without the presence of a trackpad, though I doubt you could ever regain the accuracy of the trackpad on a tiny screen, especially a 3" one like the Q10 has.

Some of the suggestions here have been interesting. Here's one of my own: how about when you long press anything, you go into an "edit mode" which magnifies the section of the screen around the text you just long-pressed. Then you can more easily see and manipulate cursor position and text selection. Make sure if you try to go near one of the margins (top/bottom/left/right) while moving the cursor or selecting text that the screen smoothly scrolls (and doesn't go too far!) to allow you to continue in the direction you need to move to continue the edit.

When you are in "magnified mode" you could popup a small "on-screen trackpad" underneath the magnified portion and use that to position the cursor. Make the cursor large and/or blinky and/or colorful so it is easily seen. Long-pressing the on-screen trackpad returns cursor positioning to the active cursor again instead of the on-screen trackpad. Etc.

[drewread]

On my Verizon Z10 running 10.0.9.2743, it is very inconsistent about when it decides to select and de-select text, when the keyboard pops up or doesn't pop up, whether the keyboard goes away when you still need it, or pops up on top of things you need to see in order to edit what you are trying to edit, etc etc. And inconsistent from app-to-app.

Re: the edit circle, what if you are 1 or 2 characters from the left margin and need to move it one character to the left? You can't just "tap on the left side of the edit circle" because the left side is not visible!

I also find the edit "pincushions" very unreliable. For example, if the text selection needs to move vertically and the line you are on is near the top of the screen, it should scroll the screen down so you can see as you move the selection area higher. It doesn't do that. It also seems to act very unpredictably when you move it around.

A. Your lame carrier has you on a very old OS version. This is unfortunate, but not BlackBerrys fault. All I can say is, once you learn how it works, even on 10.0.9.xxx it simply works.

B. You don't have to tap the actual circle, inside the circle on the correct side (or top/bottom) of the letter works fine.

C. Pincushions near the top? Simply scroll up on line past the place you want to select and then back down to the place, I do find it accurate.

D. Wait for 10.1 and see what other new improvements there will be.

E. When you are finished learning how this all works, go out and learn something else new. It's the only way to a complete life.


Yeah.. from the ZED on CB10