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  1. ofutur's Avatar
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    Default Q10 screen quality, the new EDOF "scandal"?

    There are a few problems with the Q10's OLED screen.
    • Colours are over-saturated. It just looks weird, particularly the blue of the OS and reds/oranges.
    • The screen has a blue/green colouration as soon as you're not exactly in front of the device
    • The screen is very difficult to read outside on a sunny day, especially when using the default dark theme (which is the only way to save a bit of battery life)

    Most of these effects are inherent to the technology used, but it's possible to minimise them and you have to put the pros in the balance to decide if it's worth it.

    Is the alleged battery saving, which only occurs if you're always using dark colours in your apps, really worth the trade-offs?
    Did BlackBerry pick a cheaper display to cut costs (since we know that today's amoled screens can be much better (Galaxy S4))?

    I suspect that, just like with BB's choice to downgrade the 9900's camera by removing autofocus, this will divide the community. Some will say it doesn't matter and that's the price you have to pay for a phone that can last all day while some will find it strange that BlackBerry went for a cheaper looking display compared to what's available on other platforms.

    What are your thoughts on the new screen?
    Last edited by ofutur; 05-07-2013 at 10:07 AM.
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  2. bobauckland's Avatar
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    I find it weird that the screen is supposedly cheaper.
    The trackpad isn't on it.
    The charging contacts on the bottom have been dropped, the only possible reason would be for cost purposes.
    So many things dropped, yet it's still launching at crazy expensive.
    Makes no sense.
  3. shadeofdawn's Avatar
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    The trackpad was not dropped to save cost. It was a design choice for how to use the OS.

    Have you seen the display? No reviews have complained of bad colour temperature or oversaturated colours. The colours are more vibrant, the white isn't as strong and if you view the screen off angle it gets bluer - this is what I've read in reviews. No one has complained about the screen looking cheap. What does it matter if the screen get's bluer for high viewing angles? Who views their phone at an off angle?
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  4. white shirt only's Avatar
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    All the reviews that I have read say that the screen is great. Where did you get your information? Do you have a unit?

    Please give your sources when posting rumors.
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  5. ofutur's Avatar
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    I've seen at least one review complain about the colours and I agree with the reviewer. It does look weird, not just "more vibrant". Maybe that can be changed in software.
    Regarding the blue tint, it's not just from a high viewing angle, just tilt the phone slightly and it's there. It gets worse as the angle gets higher. Let's say you have your phone on your desk, the hub is much more readable on a Z10 than it is on a Q10.
  6. ofutur's Avatar
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    You can read the comments on BerryReview and check out the BGR review. Yes, he's an arse, but he's got a point about the screen.
  7. white shirt only's Avatar
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    The problem is color calibration is that each user has his/her own eyes. When I got my MacBook Air, I couldn't stand the factory calibration. I had heck hecks and almost nausea. I picked a very blueish calibration that matches perfectly my eyes/brain/whatever.

    So a particular user cannot judge if a screen is good for the rest of the people.

    I think I read the same statement for the Galaxy S3, which has still 50 millions buyers across the globe.
  8. jdcfinisher's Avatar
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    I've been waiting for this phone for years! Now it's looking like it's the BB10 version of Os 6 phone. Things changed for an orphan phone. They are changing the screen on the next phones. So it looks like Q10 is just a stop gap till BB gets the' real 'keyboard phones they planned in production. Another year waiting

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  9. mmcpher's Avatar
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    Saturation came out of the lamentable BGR review. It's a comic masterpiece with Geller pining for old BB's he obviously never used and no doubt trashed back when.

    The price of the Q10 and the design decisions have me once again rethinking. For me, it will be a hands-on decision to see just how much progress I?ve made with the Z10 keyboard and how well the Q10 recaptures the sublime 9900 keyboard experience.
    Z10, 10.0.10.684 -- Playbook 64gb, 2.1.0.1032 and Surface Pro 128
  10. afinebalance's Avatar
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    I wonder if this has anything to do with blue being an issue on OLED screens still. Basically the OLED material used to create blue degrades faster than other colours and this creates colour balance issues over time. To combat this, some manufacturers may begin the lifespan of their OLED screens with an over saturated or deeper blue.

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  11. evilxkilla's Avatar
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    What an ignorant post, I'm sorry.

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  12. eddy_berry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by afinebalance View Post
    I wonder if this has anything to do with blue being an issue on OLED screens still. Basically the OLED material used to create blue degrades faster than other colours and this creates colour balance issues over time. To combat this, some manufacturers may begin the lifespan of their OLED screens with an over saturated or deeper blue.

    Posted via CB10
    I have seen reviews of other devices using this type of screen with the same blue tint. It was not a big deal for those phones as far as I know. I don't see a scandal here. Understood they could have used a different screen but would have been compromising other things for battery life.
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  13. jimmyjyc's Avatar
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    #13  

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    Quote Originally Posted by ofutur View Post
    There are a few problems with the Q10's screen.
    - Colours are oversaturated. It just looks weird, particularly the blue of the OS and reds/oranges.
    - The screen has a blue colouration as soon as you're not exactly in front of the device

    Did BlackBerry pick a cheaper display to cut costs?
    Is there a real increase in battery life with this display vs a better OLED screen (if that exists)?

    I suspect that, just like with the crappy EDOF camera of the 9900, this will divide the community. Some will say it doesn't matter and that's the price you have to pay for a phone that can last all day while some will find it strange that BlackBerry went for a cheaper looking display compared to what's available on other platforms.

    What are your thoughts on the new screen?
    The oversaturation is because the display is an AMOLED display. The same problem, if you want to call it a problem, exists with the Galaxy S3/4. You get very nice blacks compared to LCDs, but with whites it's the other way around. It's a tradeoff, and depends on what you prioritize. With LCDs you get "truer" colours, with AMOLEDs you get more vibrant colours (and truer blacks, because the pixels are actually off).
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  14. LordCrankypants's Avatar
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    Wait until demo models become available and make the determination for yourself. Reading a biased review by a biased person/organization and using the pictures they posted as gospel is ridiculous.

    Until you hold a final version of the phone in your hand and see for yourself, you will never know for sure.

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  15. ofutur's Avatar
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    Default

    Regarding the Galaxy line, there is a good analysis of the screen used here and how it compares to a good LCD:
    Galaxy S4 Display Technology Shoot-Out

    Seems like the S4 has fixed quite a few of the issues, but some like the colour shift do reside. Maybe BlackBerry is using last year's technology and as someone's mentioned, we'll get the good stuff next year.
    I'll have to go check out a S4 to see the difference.

    Regarding the power savings, it seems like it could be worth it if sticking to the dark theme. "Normal" pictures seem to consume about the same as a LCD while something like the Hub at max brightness would consume about twice as much .
  16. Skeevecr's Avatar
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    #16  

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    Quote Originally Posted by ofutur View Post
    What are your thoughts on the new screen?
    My thoughts is that there are zero problems with the display unless you are somebody who just doesn't like the look of oled screens in general where saturation is going to be higher than on an lcd.

    Given the number of areas where they could have easily shaved some money from the overall cost e.g. dropping the metal band, going with the same back as a z10 amongst others it is simply laughable that anyone would think they had gone for a cheapy display as if that had been their aim then they could have skipped oled entirely and just stuck with lcd.
  17. jegs2's Avatar
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    #17  

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    Quote Originally Posted by afinebalance View Post
    I wonder if this has anything to do with blue being an issue on OLED screens still. Basically the OLED material used to create blue degrades faster than other colours and this creates colour balance issues over time. To combat this, some manufacturers may begin the lifespan of their OLED screens with an over saturated or deeper blue.
    That makes sense, based on what I've read.
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    If it comes with a CRT display I will *****. Til then it's looks fine to me for the size of the screen. I'm not watching HDTV on the thing. I need to text everyone at a sick pace.
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  19. mdawson1's Avatar
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    BGR...that is all you need to know. I find it hard to read (actually I no longer do) a review from such biased individuals. Everything does not need to be compared to Apple. Of course Crackberry is biased...its a Blackberry site and we all know their tendencies. The Globe and Mail, Mobile Syrup....those reviews seem much more balanced.

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  20. CJH_'s Avatar
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    Considering that the Q10 screen uses a PenTile Matrix, it's one of the best available.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shadeofdawn View Post
    The trackpad was not dropped to save cost. It was a design choice for how to use the OS.

    Have you seen the display? No reviews have complained of bad colour temperature or oversaturated colours. The colours are more vibrant, the white isn't as strong and if you view the screen off angle it gets bluer - this is what I've read in reviews. No one has complained about the screen looking cheap. What does it matter if the screen get's bluer for high viewing angles? Who views their phone at an off angle?
    Agreed....
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  22. elgolfman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyjyc View Post
    The oversaturation is because the display is an AMOLED display. The same problem, if you want to call it a problem, exists with the Galaxy S3/4. You get very nice blacks compared to LCDs, but with whites it's the other way around. It's a tradeoff, and depends on what you prioritize. With LCDs you get "truer" colours, with AMOLEDs you get more vibrant colours (and truer blacks, because the pixels are actually off).
    And better battery life...
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  23. ofutur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elgolfman View Post
    And better battery life...
    Only when using the dark theme, dark wallpapers, dark icons, dark apps, etc. As soon as you're using it like a "normal" smartphone, there is no advantage in using an OLED screen.
  24. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
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    I read a lot of reviews and the only one where that complaint was really brought up was Gellers.

    Read the Ars review, definitely one of the best.

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  25. ofutur's Avatar
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    Yep and people who don't want to go through the whole S4 SuperAMOLED screen analysis, check out the summary on Ars as well.
    Three years in, AMOLED displays are finally getting it right | Ars Technica

    Here is what they say about OLED screens:
    "These screens cost less to manufacture but can have issues with color accuracy and text crispness"

    So it seems BB was definitely looking to cut costs there, especially if the screen is not as good as what's on the S4, being released at the exact same time.

    EDIT: The Ars review also mentions over-saturation and the hue
    "most colors are more vibrant (if sometimes a little too saturated) and blacks are blacker, but the screen can take on a greenish or purplish hue if viewed from an angle"
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