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  1. sbndrf's Avatar
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    Default Q10 Carrier Testing?

    I just found this article saying that "the device hasn't even entered testing on at least one of the UK's major networks", i.e, at the only major network wired.co.uk asked / got an answer. It made me wondering how much carrier testing is actually necessary for the Q10. All the network relevant hardware and software such as radio chip and radio stack implementation is equal to the tested and approved Z10, aren't they? Maybe the antenna is shaped a bit differently due to the different size of the device and thus the metal frame including it but does that justify requiring an entirely new testing process? They didn't test the black and the white Z10 separately either (at least in my opinion) ...

    I keep hoping for a soon launch.
  2. BBKrzy's Avatar
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    Well i talked to verizon today and they said its coming soon but RIM hasn't even given them a release date yet so it is up to RIM when it is to be released. Crazy waiting game!
  3. Taigatrommel's Avatar
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    Yes waiting is crazy for sure. There will be a small BB10 launch event in germany next week and I just hope we'll get some positive information about the Q10 availability there.
  4. blanc71's Avatar
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    According to Crucial the Q10 was in testing at AT&T during Jan 30th.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbndrf View Post
    I just found this article saying that "the device hasn't even entered testing on at least one of the UK's major networks", i.e, at the only major network wired.co.uk asked / got an answer. It made me wondering how much carrier testing is actually necessary for the Q10. All the network relevant hardware and software such as radio chip and radio stack implementation is equal to the tested and approved Z10, aren't they? Maybe the antenna is shaped a bit differently due to the different size of the device and thus the metal frame including it but does that justify requiring an entirely new testing process? They didn't test the black and the white Z10 separately either (at least in my opinion) ...

    I keep hoping for a soon launch.
    Must be all the carriers faults again.
  6. machoman1337's Avatar
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    Just a hypothesis: Carrier testing is not really testing the phone to see if it works properly with the carrier. It's locking the phone, loading on carrier bloatware, and going through all sorts of tests to ensure that it's not too easy to bypass the SIM lock or remove the bloatware. I formed this hypothesis from the fact that Verizon loves to lock bootloaders on Android phones, and some Sony Ericsson android phones sold by Canadian carriers have been rejecting SIM unlock codes and need more low-level interaction (testpoint, etc) to unlock. Also very few phones can be SIM unlocked purely by software - likely due to carrier intervention.

    I have lived in both Canada and the US, and brought in unlocked phones from abroad, and some of them were never even sold in North America. They have all worked perfectly fine on the major GSM carriers on this continent. At worst, some unlocked smartphones may need the APN to be manually entered, but that's an easy step and carriers often give the procedure on their website anyway. With regards to call quality, signal strength, etc, there's zero issue bringing in an unlocked phone that wasn't "tested" by the carrier. The only thing to worry about is frequency support, for example an AWS-only phone won't work on AT&T's HSPA, but that's beyond either party's control and the buyer should do his homework beforehand.

    In fact, there are Americans who have imported and unlocked BB Z10s from Canada or the UK, and their phones are working fine, as should be the case. After all, in much of Europe and Asia people just buy handsets outright and choose the provider later (their monthly plans are MUCH cheaper than ours, offsetting the higher upfront cost in the long run), and don't have any issues, despite the providers not "testing" most of the phones.

    As for the Q10's delay, the main reason is to give devs time to optimize their apps for the different screen. That's RIM's fault, yes. However, the US will probably get it late again because of what I described above.
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  7. crackcookie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by machoman1337 View Post
    Just a hypothesis: Carrier testing is not really testing the phone to see if it works properly with the carrier. It's locking the phone, loading on carrier bloatware, and going through all sorts of tests to ensure that it's not too easy to bypass the SIM lock or remove the bloatware. I formed this hypothesis from the fact that Verizon loves to lock bootloaders on Android phones, and some Sony Ericsson android phones sold by Canadian carriers have been rejecting SIM unlock codes and need more low-level interaction (testpoint, etc) to unlock. Also very few phones can be SIM unlocked purely by software - likely due to carrier intervention.

    I have lived in both Canada and the US, and brought in unlocked phones from abroad, and some of them were never even sold in North America. They have all worked perfectly fine on the major GSM carriers on this continent. At worst, some unlocked smartphones may need the APN to be manually entered, but that's an easy step and carriers often give the procedure on their website anyway. With regards to call quality, signal strength, etc, there's zero issue bringing in an unlocked phone that wasn't "tested" by the carrier. The only thing to worry about is frequency support, for example an AWS-only phone won't work on AT&T's HSPA, but that's beyond either party's control and the buyer should do his homework beforehand.

    In fact, there are Americans who have imported and unlocked BB Z10s from Canada or the UK, and their phones are working fine, as should be the case. After all, in much of Europe and Asia people just buy handsets outright and choose the provider later (their monthly plans are MUCH cheaper than ours, offsetting the higher upfront cost in the long run), and don't have any issues, despite the providers not "testing" most of the phones.

    As for the Q10's delay, the main reason is to give devs time to optimize their apps for the different screen. That's RIM's fault, yes. However, the US will probably get it late again because of what I described above.
    This makes a lot of sense, they are probably doing some testing, but they are also trying to find ways to get apps that can milk money from the average customer. Every time I have a smart phone, there is some app on there that wants me to buy something from it in which I could easily do for free....but they also make it so you can't delete it, only hide it. And as for not being able to unlock it, that makes sense, someone could say I lost/damaged my phone and now I cannot afford a smart phone plan, so they would go and try to get on another network or just sell the phone.


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  8. CarGuy1368's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blanc71 View Post
    According to Crucial the Q10 was in testing at AT&T during Jan 30th.
    That is just too good to be true.

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    Apple iPhone 3G > BlackBerry Curve 8900 > BlackBerry Torch 9800 & Apple iPad 16GB > BlackBerry Bold 9900 & BlackBerry PlayBook 64GB > BlackBerry Q10

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  9. Skeevecr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by machoman1337 View Post
    Just a hypothesis: Carrier testing is not really testing the phone to see if it works properly with the carrier. It's locking the phone, loading on carrier bloatware, and going through all sorts of tests to ensure that it's not too easy to bypass the SIM lock or remove the bloatware. I formed this hypothesis from the fact that Verizon loves to lock bootloaders on Android phones, and some Sony Ericsson android phones sold by Canadian carriers have been rejecting SIM unlock codes and need more low-level interaction (testpoint, etc) to unlock. Also very few phones can be SIM unlocked purely by software - likely due to carrier intervention.
    Sorry, but your hypothesis is not actually true, carrier testing is far more than what you suggest and the reason the american carriers are so much slower is that they only trust their own results and do not leverage global standards such as GCF certification to reduce their testing cycles leading to these delayed launches, this is somewhat understandable for the cdma carriers since few other places bother with that technology but it is weird of the gsm carriers.
  10. Skeevecr's Avatar
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    One thing to bear in mind with the q10, for all those locations that took the LTE version of the z10, testing is going to be simplified since most of the hardware is identical and it will not be the first bb10 device they will have tested either so this scaremongering about not seeing a q10 until q3 just seems highly unlikely.
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  11. keel999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeevecr View Post
    One thing to bear in mind with the q10, for all those locations that took the LTE version of the z10, testing is going to be simplified since most of the hardware is identical and it will not be the first bb10 device they will have tested either so this scaremongering about not seeing a q10 until q3 just seems highly unlikely.
    it makes some sense,perhaps you're right about it. And,may i ask, when do you think they will release Q10?i mean First Release in any possible country.
  12. vizZir's Avatar
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    In France, the device is expected to come in April but there is no pre-order at the moment.
  13. slagman5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbndrf View Post
    I just found this article saying that "the device hasn't even entered testing on at least one of the UK's major networks", i.e, at the only major network wired.co.uk asked / got an answer. It made me wondering how much carrier testing is actually necessary for the Q10. All the network relevant hardware and software such as radio chip and radio stack implementation is equal to the tested and approved Z10, aren't they? Maybe the antenna is shaped a bit differently due to the different size of the device and thus the metal frame including it but does that justify requiring an entirely new testing process? They didn't test the black and the white Z10 separately either (at least in my opinion) ...

    I keep hoping for a soon launch.
    Honestly, I'd take what wired has to say with a grain of salt. I don't even consider that publication a real publication... I got a year of their print magazine for free and after trying to read through the first few issues, I just started throwing them away in the dumpster on the walk back from the mailbox...
  14. slagman5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeevecr View Post
    One thing to bear in mind with the q10, for all those locations that took the LTE version of the z10, testing is going to be simplified since most of the hardware is identical and it will not be the first bb10 device they will have tested either so this scaremongering about not seeing a q10 until q3 just seems highly unlikely.
    It's wired, what do you expect? Blackberry is not "cool" and current, so Wired will do what they can to make people not like it or not look forward to the new BB10... Those idiots cannot write a serious informative tech article to save their lives... They'd rather try to find some way to make some idiotic political statement instead of actually giving facts on the tech they are writing about...
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBKrzy View Post
    Well i talked to verizon today and they said its coming soon but RIM hasn't even given them a release date yet so it is up to RIM when it is to be released. Crazy waiting game!
    No. It is not "up to RIM".

    The Q10 is already in pre-order from Telus in Canada, and has been for over a week. That tells me it's a March launch.
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  16. BB_Bmore's Avatar
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    Default Q10 Carrier Testing?

    The delay of the Q10 is more to do with getting the OS and apps ready and not so much about Carriers this and Carriers that.

    These people who blog these articles never cease to amaze me with the extreme levels of ignorance.

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  17. Taigatrommel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vizZir View Post
    In France, the device is expected to come in April but there is no pre-order at the moment.
    Do you have any links for additional information on this subject? If France could get it in April, maybe Germany gets it around the same time too. I keep my fingers crossed.
  18. DomenicoMarco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taigatrommel View Post
    Yes waiting is crazy for sure. There will be a small BB10 launch event in germany next week and I just hope we'll get some positive information about the Q10 availability there.
    Echt jetzt? Where and when? Thanks for info. Didn't knew that one is planned in Germany.. Good to hear!
  19. sbndrf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DomenicoMarco View Post
    Echt jetzt? Where and when? Thanks for info. Didn't knew that one is planned in Germany.. Good to hear!
    Any information about Z10 in Germany?

    Der offizielle Launch fr das BlackBerry Z10 in Deutschland | MacBerry.de
  20. BBKrzy's Avatar
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    I really don't care when it releases in other countries. For some damn reason the US gets the short end of the stick and that's where they get most of their profit is here and yet we the LAST to get it.
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  21. kgwhat's Avatar
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    Again another dumb move, I don't buy the BS excuse given by Thor "oh well we know how to make keyboards so we went touch firrrrst cuz it's harder" (Arnold Schwarzenegger voice) #1. Don't ****in lie just say you fired a bunch of ppl and you didn't have the manpower to get both done at the same time. #2 How hard is it really the Q is a cleaner 9900. I'm desperately waiting for the q10 because my productivity has been a net increase of zero true there is no more typing then some ******* clock would appear out of no where for like 2mins but typing on the z10 is annoying for me at least. So it's basically a wash or slight improvement in terms of getting **** done. With the q10 A LOT of ppl will see a huge jump in productivity again. BTW before ppl say I'm too negative a **** remember they had two years to make these phones and I'm sure stuff was in development before that. So demand more my friends!
  22. DomenicoMarco's Avatar
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  23. BBKrzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgwhat View Post
    BTW before ppl say I'm too negative a **** remember they had two years to make these phones and I'm sure stuff was in development before that. So demand more my friends!
    I couldnt have said it better myself! It really pisses me off they had so long to make another qwerty phone and it's so anticipated and yet they are taking they precious ******* time. But yet they can advertise for it when their not even going to release it months later, people will lose interest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBKrzy View Post
    I couldnt have said it better myself! It really pisses me off they had so long to make another qwerty phone and it's so anticipated and yet they are taking they precious ******* time. But yet they can advertise for it when their not even going to release it months later, people will lose interest.
    It's getting harder & harder to wait for the Q10 as I watch our Network Admin show us all the things he can do on the Note 2 and he was a die hard BB guy !!
    Last edited by fastpitch_dad; 02-18-2013 at 10:18 AM.
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  25. BBKrzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastpitch_dad View Post
    It's getting harder & harder to wait for the Q10 as I watch out Network Admin show us all the things he can do on the Note 2 and he was a die hard BB guy !!
    It's getting very frustrating. Is it really worth waiting for? BB doesn't seem to care =/ All they care about is that damn Z10.
    fastpitch_dad likes this.
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