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  1. gautamkhanna's Avatar
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    Default To, Mr Heins on the Q10

    Mr. Heins,

    Let me start by saying Thank You. What you have churned out in 1 year, has been far more significant in comparison to what was done int he few years preceding your leadership.

    My love for Blackberry stated at a very young age. Research in Motion as it was known was the biggest reason I chose the University of Waterloo. MY first blackberry I myself could afford was a Pearl.

    Then, I got a Curve and then the 8800. I still have the curve and the 8800. They work mighty fine. I may just have convinced the whole world that Blackberry was the way to go. The keyboard gave a feeling or empowerment. As a student, I felt like I was what Kevin dubs a 'mover and shaker'.

    You brought to us the Bold and that changed everything. Then, came Apple. I was defiant. I stayed the course. then the 3G and then 3GS and Android. I stayed the course. LIke many, I went astray when the iPhone 4 came out. Heck, I got a job at Apple Retail. I still had a blackberry. There were still so many people on BBM.

    Then the fall happened. Blackberry wasn't where it needed to be. there were Galaxy's of phones and iPhones everywhere. You released the 9900 and I remember August 8, 2011 when I was moving to a different part of the country and Kevin put up an update saying he found a Bold 9900 at a store in Winnipeg. I called every store and found one in Red Deer, Alberta as I made my way to Vancouver. I bought it. It was mine. I was so proud.

    Then, I realized that there were no Apps. I bought the iPhone 4S after that. I also had a blackberry through work that I cherish to this day.

    My father used a Blackberry at that point and so did my Mother.

    The Z10 was good. Really good. You put everything you had in it but, I waited for the Q10. I'm thrilled. It beautiful. its everything I imagined it would be.

    In a world where one can freely buy a Nexus 4 for 350 + shipping and taxes, FIDO (my provider) is charging me $350 before taxes on a 2 year contract. My love for Blackberry runs deep. Unfortunately for them, I am also educated.

    I am being asked to fork out the same amount of money for a stock Android phone that does a bit more, all for a QWERTY keyboard. If it wasn't after using a playbook, it is now that my faith in Blackberry is shaken. You do realize that the Nexus 4 starts at 350 + taxes, unlocked and outright?

    A move like this, is a slap in the face of a user that has always been a blackberry user. This time, after all this wait, it has hurt. I want a Q10. Will I pay $350 to lock myself into a 2 year contract? No Sir. I can not in good conscience do that.
    The argument can be that the Q10 had more space and 4G and a physical Keyboard. Well, they have more Apps.

    The Q10 is your flagship phone and no amount of marketing will change that. You know it and we all know it. You want it in every persons hands? Only you can make it happen. Kevin nicknamed the Q10 the 'Cash Cow' That may be. But, it's not fair. It taking undue advantage of those that have been faithful to Blackberry.

    I sincerely hope that you will do something about this.
  2. jasonmelling's Avatar
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    Default

    I'm with you on the price issue

    SO! Perhaps they will come out with the mid-tier $300-$400 device VERY quickly. I can't/wont afford the q10 unless on sale (which is bad for Blackberry), so if they come out with R10 quickly, then: Hooray! Sale for BB.
  3. Bbnivende's Avatar
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    In my neck of the woods I am not sure that I would want to go Fido for coverage. Nexus seems fine but I would not want to go Android as well. If I go rogue it will be as with all my other devices - on Apple. ( Don't count the PB as a device).
  4. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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    Here's a thought guys: wait a bit. The prices come down. They always do.
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  5. Fr3lncr's Avatar
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    It's not really fair to compare the Q10 to the Nexus 4 (or really any phone to the Nexus 4). Google is subsidizing the price of the phone (or at least the middle man is cut from the process) to keep the phone less expensive than the competition. Plus, the main advantage of the Nexus 4 isn't necessarily the specs but the fact that it is running stock Android (so you don't have to deal with updated delays). I say this because based on specs, the competition (Z10 or even Q10) is better in many areas. (Quad core doesn't count because believe me it doesn't really make a difference).

    So, I don't think it is reasonable for the Q10 to sell at the same rate. For sure I think anything over $600 is crazy and I'll wait until the price drops before buying but historically the Bold line always sold for $600 CDN and this just continues it.

    I think though that BB or the carriers are gambling a bit as they might think they can do a cash grab for all those desperate for a real upgrade to the 9900 and if it works they'll be sitting pretty. But it could backfire as well with slow sales. At the end of the day, demand will dictate the price. If it sells well, it will likely stay high. If it doesn't, then expect the rebates to kick in.

    It never pays to be an early adopter so waiting a month or two will likely save you from kicking yourself if the phone drops $100. The Z10 dropped a bit on the discount carriers thanks to Koodo for selling it for $550 and buying it on contract certainly dropped as well as you can get it for free now on a three year contract.

    Plus the longer you wait, the more apps will be released and hopefully more OS updates. Personally, as much as I want one, I think I'll still wait until the summer since I already have another phone I can use (Nexus 4) and I'm still wanting those holster profiles back (love those holster profiles!).
    9000 > 9700 > 9780 > 9800 > 9900 > 9810 > 9900 > Z10 > Q5 > Z10 > Z30 > Passport > Z30
  6. slagman5's Avatar
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    Just curious, but how often do you guys switch carriers? I've been on AT&T ever since my first cell phone, and don't really see any reason to switch because I like the reception AT&T offers. Everyone I know on Sprint can never get a signal. Forget about Metro PCS, Verizon is comparable to AT&T but costs even more, T-Mobile I've also noticed have more issues with signal as compared to AT&T, so for me, using the 2 year contract so subsidize the cost of the phone is fine by me. I'm not going to switch any time soon anyway... And even if you do decide to switch early, the early termination fee is actually less than the amount you save by signing up for the contract...
  7. Empyrean's Avatar
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    The phone is overpriced relative to what? There is, quite literally and definitively, no other QWERTY smartphone of the Q10's calibre. It's a top-of-the-category sovereign, the phone that the Nokia Ashas and 'droid keyboards look up to and want to be when they grow up. There is no substitute if you're going down the apples-to-apples route. The price it's at is the price it's at, you can't say it's 'too high' since there is no real comparable product.
    ----------------------------
    Shantih shantih shantih,
    The Empyrean
  8. white shirt only's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberChicken76 View Post
    Here's a thought guys: wait a bit. The prices come down. They always do.
    For the FIDO tab24 plan, prices will not change: look at the Z10, it's still at 350 on a tab24 (2 years).
  9. knownastron's Avatar
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    Who said it was $350? The price I'm hearing is $250 on a two year contract. Which is $50 more than a Z10 on launch.

    $50 isn't going to make or break you. If it does, then you shouldn't be in the market for a premium phone. Because really, that is what the Q10 is, a premium phone with a premium price. Why does $50 get people so riled up? Now I'll admit, it should be priced at the same price as the Z10 since that is also a premium phone.

    But this $50 increase shouldn't be enough to feel like "a slap in the face of a user that has always been a blackberry user." Because if it is, I think you're just oversensitive and the problem isn't BlackBerry's pricing, but your sensitivity to things you can't control.
  10. punbb's Avatar
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    How are people complaining about this? I don't think the price is bad.

    Posted via CB10
  11. nikesu's Avatar
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    I totally agree with OP. Price is absolutely ridiculous. I think being underdog, BB should price their devices lesser than iphone & top android lines. Right now, Q10 is more expensive than Galaxy S4. I will wait a month or 2 for price to go down.
  12. SK122387's Avatar
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    The price isn't ridiculous to me, because I will get my money's worth out of the Q10, and someone would have to pay ME $350 to use an Android phone.
    Sean

    Twitter: @SeanKelleher
    Jake Storm likes this.
  13. k-fos's Avatar
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    ill buy it. best looking phone ive ever seen.
    Pearl9100>Bold9790>RedQ5
    Downloading now.
  14. LordCrankypants's Avatar
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    The price isn't ridiculous, and based on the build quality and specs we've seen when comparing this to the Z10, there is no reason it should sell at the same price as the Z10 sold for when it was launched. AMOLED, glass-weave battery door, bigger battery, physical keyboard, etc. All of those things set this phone apart from the Z10, making it more expensive to produce than the Z10. Asking for $50 more than the Z10 was sold for initially isn't a stretch to think about, nor is it a slap in the face to "loyal BlackBerry users." It's a niche market, so if people want an updated, full QWERTY phone, then this is the phone to get (there are no others that can compete). Businesses have been waiting for this phone, and I can't see an extra $50 per handset holding them back and forcing them to go with Android or iOS. $249.99 is not unreasonable for this device.

    Chances are what you will see happen is that for now, the price will remain at $249 in the US, and then when it comes close to the time for the S4 to launch in June, we'll likely see the price drop to $199 to compete with that. Just an observation.

    If you really want to complain, here in Canada, the S4 is going to be sold for $199 on a THREE year term, the same price as the S4 is on a TWO year term in the USA. So really, I don't think there is any reason to complain about the price of the Q10. At least the price is comparable between the two countries. You're paying an extra $50 for a year less on your contract.

    JB
    If I've helped you or given you a healthy dose of reality, click the Like or Thanks button
  15. tanknitrous's Avatar
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    I think it all comes down to how much you value your device. My cell phone is my ONLY phone. I always think "who needs to call me in an emergency, or who do I need to call in an emergency?" My cell phone is not a luxury. I NEED it, and I NEED it to work... every time, all the time. What price can you put on that? I guess I don't know. Just food for thought.
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  16. Armada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empyrean View Post
    The phone is overpriced relative to what? There is, quite literally and definitively, no other QWERTY smartphone of the Q10's calibre. It's a top-of-the-category sovereign, the phone that the Nokia Ashas and 'droid keyboards look up to and want to be when they grow up. There is no substitute if you're going down the apples-to-apples route. The price it's at is the price it's at, you can't say it's 'too high' since there is no real comparable product.
    You compare it to every other smartphone, of coure. Like every Average Consumer Joe will. He makes no distinction between what phones have keyboards and what don't. It's more like "The iPhone" an "Everything Else." Believing the Q10 should only be compared to other QWERTYs is very narrow minded and is lying to yourself. The Q10 has to compete with everything else. While it's certainly the king of keyboards it is not top dog of all smartphones. Don't fall into that line of thinking. It's a long, hard climb from here.
    Drew808 likes this.
  17. jegs2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by punbb View Post
    How are people complaining about this? I don't think the price is bad.
    My guess is that they're complaining, because they think the price is bad. But perhaps I missed their point...
    March of the Smartphones: Handspring Visor with Digital Link > Handspring Treo 600 > Sprint PPC 6700 > Palm Centro > Blackberry Tour 9630 > Blackberry Bold 9650 > Blackberry Torch 9850 > Palm Treo 755p > Blackberry Bold 9930 > iPhone 4s (issued by work) > Palm Treo 755p > BlackBerry Bold 9930 > BlackBerry Q10
    barnfoot likes this.
  18. lyles's Avatar
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    #18  

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    Quote Originally Posted by LordCrankypants View Post
    The price isn't ridiculous, and based on the build quality and specs we've seen when comparing this to the Z10, there is no reason it should sell at the same price as the Z10 sold for when it was launched. AMOLED, glass-weave battery door, bigger battery, physical keyboard, etc. All of those things set this phone apart from the Z10, making it more expensive to produce than the Z10. Asking for $50 more than the Z10 was sold for initially isn't a stretch to think about, nor is it a slap in the face to "loyal BlackBerry users." It's a niche market, so if people want an updated, full QWERTY phone, then this is the phone to get (there are no others that can compete). Businesses have been waiting for this phone, and I can't see an extra $50 per handset holding them back and forcing them to go with Android or iOS. $249.99 is not unreasonable for this device.

    Chances are what you will see happen is that for now, the price will remain at $249 in the US, and then when it comes close to the time for the S4 to launch in June, we'll likely see the price drop to $199 to compete with that. Just an observation.

    If you really want to complain, here in Canada, the S4 is going to be sold for $199 on a THREE year term, the same price as the S4 is on a TWO year term in the USA. So really, I don't think there is any reason to complain about the price of the Q10. At least the price is comparable between the two countries. You're paying an extra $50 for a year less on your contract.

    JB
    S4 launches on ATT shortly at 199, and Verizon May 30 at 199.
  19. Skeevecr's Avatar
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    #19  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fr3lncr View Post
    It's not really fair to compare the Q10 to the Nexus 4 (or really any phone to the Nexus 4). Google is subsidizing the price of the phone (or at least the middle man is cut from the process) to keep the phone less expensive than the competition.
    I think this is a crucial point, if you want to complain about the price because of how it compares to a GS4, ip5 or whatever then that would be fair enough, but picking out a device that is being sold at cost as the comparison simply weakens your argument.
  20. kartcdn's Avatar
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    All I have to say is that you get what you pay for. I bought a Nexus 4 to try out the raw google android experience and I have to say its an awful communication device. Gmail aggregates emails into conversations, call quality is sub-par... overall not that great. I am more than willing to drop double what I paid for the nexus 4 for the Q10 and buy it outright. I have never had any problems with my BBs.
  21. belleg's Avatar
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    why is it not a top dog of all smartphones? it is the best phone running BB10 - an in-house OS which makes it premium... just like iPhone - if you compare specs of iPhone with various Android phones, iPhones pales but it is the top/only one running in-house IOS. like watches - my watch (not mentioning it on purpose) runs in-house automatic movement hence I expected to (and I did) to pay more for it even though (compared to even $20 cheap Chinese quartz watches) it is not as accurate as quartz.
    Jake Storm likes this.
  22. Supa_Fly1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gautamkhanna View Post
    Mr. Heins,

    Let me start by saying Thank You. What you have churned out in 1 year, has been far more significant in comparison to what was done int he few years preceding your leadership.
    I'm curious why is this sentiment still portrayed amongst the boards here? Sorry I'm not trying to attack your opinion but the FACT is Heins has been part of BlackBerry for close to 10 years and was ELECTED after being presented by the former Co-CEO's whom had the QNX aquisition, development with TAT and the hole BB10 ball rolling LONG before the outcry for 1 new CEO at RIM!

    Do you recall both Ballsillie and Lazaridis specifically stating the new smartphone, the first one based on BBX (licensing and patented product prevented this name from being used thus BB10 was born in name only), would be 1/2 the PlayBook?!

    Facts:
    resolution = 1280x768 very close to PlayBooks
    volume/play/pause buttons = identical to the PlayBook
    high end front & rear cameras = again based off what the PlayBook hath brought.
    Finish, even right down the the rear batter cover finish is part of the PlayBook.

    I don't doubt that Heins' organization prowess, motivational, and management skills are to be argued nor contended with, yet he himself THANKED Lazaridis and Balsillie publicly at the BB10 Official product announcement at the beginning for their leadership and hard work in beginning the BB10 platform! The perception amongst non-educated users on this board that Heins is the bringer of everything positive at BlackBerry is falsely instigated by CrackBerry Chief Editor as well. Not trying to point fingers but the proof is in the history in the past year here.

    Heins' is GREAT for BlackBerry, however he's not SOLELY responsible for BB10, its development from scratch (that credit should goto Dan Dodge and his QNX team really!). It IS good to highlight Heins by CrackBerry as it helps the perception that the diving RIM is gone, but stating that the old CEO's where stagnant without the actual evidence or PROOF that development of BB10 could have been less than 1.8yrs is actually slander! There is nothing on the internet, BlackBerry's press documentation or QTR results spanning back 3yrs now to refute this - if there was a HUGE lawsuit would be successful for investors - the most recent was shot down by the supreme court in the USA.

    Back on topic:

    Your post is WELL thought & laid out, for this I commend you - honestly!

    In particular you mentioned
    I am being asked to fork out the same amount of money for a stock Android phone that does a bit more, all for a QWERTY keyboard.
    however how much does it do MORE for YOU!?! That is what you'll need to pontificate on. I've said it before in other threads, and here it apply's just the same ... being a BB user, of no doubt influenced by the media and shift in market trends ... to the major successful players of the competition ... it matters not what the other devices CAN do or OFFER you ... it matters what benefit to YOU they can bring, that you can use daily, weekly, monthly, or say 5 months down the road, or 2yrs since you're on a contract and of no doubt restricted from subsidized upgrades without paying a higher $$ penalty of your hard earned spinach ($)!

    Case in Point:
    Millions of applications in App World for iOS:
    - I'm not an app *****, I consume only what I need or what benefits me daily/weekly, the others don't matter. The others if they don't improve my life or wellbeing what's the point!?!!
    Specifications of Android devices:
    - I think BlackBerry with BB10, and also the upcoming FireFox OS has proven just how up to date, fast, and robust a modern OS can do with just an efficient Dual-Core mobile cpu! Applications still have yet to fully really use or take advantage of x-Core mobile cpu's with killer, star destroyer gpu's, and some kind of crazy technology that will make Princess Leia in her prime orgasm and you feel it on your leg half way around the world! Specifications ... on paper their great, but if you cannot use them to your daily advantage it doesn't mean a thing. Battery life is the single crippler of any smartphones specifications today.

    Right now the main competition is the S40 Asha device just announced from Nokia with a dedicated WhatsApp key (all in pastel colours), good luck enjoying that device. Also there is a Samsung Replenish, also with a full qwerty kb, GingerBread 2.3 Android, 2MP camera,
    There's no Flash support in the browser, and the Replenish feels a bit cheap and cramped. In addition, the processor is a little laggy.
    and which CNet states this, you gotta wonder if BlackBerry is really pricing this wrong?!

    yes there will be some bit of an adjustment for you with the Q10 coming from traditional OS BB's, in particular is navigation and input just before interaction, but I think once you've used it for 60 minutes you'd sing a different tune.

    PS: Take heed of the Q10 on a 2/3yr contract ... I have a feeling this although represents a high-end device, its really a mid-tier from BlackBerry which their being mum about. If I'm right, and I pray I am, the upcoming top-tier qwerty will have us creaming our shorts this xmas holiday season.

    Good luck on whatever you decide that best suits YOU!
    BlackBerry Passport - Serious Mobility for Serious Business; No Procrastination.
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  23. Empyrean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armada View Post
    You compare it to every other smartphone, of coure. Like every Average Consumer Joe will. He makes no distinction between what phones have keyboards and what don't. It's more like "The iPhone" an "Everything Else." Believing the Q10 should only be compared to other QWERTYs is very narrow minded and is lying to yourself. The Q10 has to compete with everything else. While it's certainly the king of keyboards it is not top dog of all smartphones. Don't fall into that line of thinking. It's a long, hard climb from here.
    Maybe. But in my mind - maybe because I'm all about function in addition to form factor - it's like the difference between a quad-core tablet and a laptop.
    ----------------------------
    Shantih shantih shantih,
    The Empyrean
  24. Dgree03's Avatar
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    People compare the Q10 to the other heavy hitters on the market because.... well THEY ARE IN THE SAME MARKET. Z10, Q10, S3, S4, HTC One, iPhone 5, 4s.... all have the same things in common. They all have keyboards, they all make calls, they all use "apps", they all can email, text, and browse the internet. q10 is hardware keyboard everything else is software... Q10 has for more disadvantages on paper than advantages... it really comes down to how much you value a hardware keyboard...
  25. luddite2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanknitrous View Post
    I think it all comes down to how much you value your device. My cell phone is my ONLY phone. I always think "who needs to call me in an emergency, or who do I need to call in an emergency?" My cell phone is not a luxury. I NEED it, and I NEED it to work... every time, all the time. What price can you put on that? I guess I don't know. Just food for thought.
    The asking price for the new Blackberries bust my budget a bit but I am keeping in mind that a quality phone should be able to last me several years or more. I have been clinging to a four-year-old dumb phone for the last year waiting to see what Blackberry released with their new OS. I don't know that many brands have same longevity as older Blackberry models have had. We have an old Blackberry Tour 9630 that still works. The person who had that phone moved onto Android when touch screens became the trend. If my LG Glance can last me four years with infrequent use then a Blackberry lifetime will be stupendous.
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