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  1. eddy_berry's Avatar
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    Default Just saw this article... we 'lljust have to wait and see

    http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-...hones/-1125931

    BlackBerry 10 apps may suck on the QWERTY handset
    Touchscreen focus until after launch

    The first QWERTY keyboard-toting BlackBerry 10 device may be at a disadvantage with apps not optimised for its display.
    According to Canadian news site the Financial Post, Victoria Berry from RIM has said the firm won't release the SDK for its QWERTY handsets until after the January 30 launch date.
    This would mean developers cannot adapt their applications for the smaller display ahead of time meaning devices will go to market without properly coded native apps.
    App-oh

    It's not like the QWERTY keyboard has gone off the boil with RIM Senior Director Bob El-Hawary telling Vodafone recently the firm "will also be announcing a physical keyboard device" at the January 30 launch event.
    El-Hawary was also quick to point out that the number of new apps being submitted to BB 10 is breaking records: "we're confident that we'll launch with tens of thousands of apps, a record for the launch of any new mobile platform."
    With so many apps apparently ready to go it's even more surprising that the physical keyboard device - currently referred to as the BlackBerry X10 - won't be able to take full advantage of them from the word go.
    We're sure all will become clear at the end of the month when RIM finally launches BlackBerry 10 and hopefully gets its business back on track.
    From Financial Post and Vodafone

    I feel us qwerty fans are going to need to wait a bit.

    What do you guys think of this kind of news?
    For the best typing experience only one brand does it the best. That brand is BlackBerry.
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  2. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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    I think like your title ... "wait and see".

    "meaning devices will go to market without properly coded native apps."

    This is a bit of a leap, given that the announce date for the QWERTY device hasn't actually been given. For all we know, RIM could say on January 30th:

    "Touchscreen device shipping now and in your hands in the next two weeks. QWERTY device to ship at the end of March, but SDK and Dev Alpha C available today for devs to adapt their apps in time".
  3. eddy_berry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just saw this article... we 'lljust have to wait and see

    Quote Originally Posted by RubberChicken76 View Post
    "meaning devices will go to market without properly coded native apps."

    This is a bit of a leap...
    Oh I completely agree with you there. I think I am more worried about it being very different experience on qwerty devices. For example not having the same selection of apps at release.

    Either way we have to wait and see how it pans out.
    For the best typing experience only one brand does it the best. That brand is BlackBerry.
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  4. Bbnivende's Avatar
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    The issue is is twofold. No Apps is a big issue. I expect that the device will not be released until the Apps have reached a sufficient number. The bigger issue is the size of the X10 itself. It appears that the X10 will be very close in size to the current BB9900 in which case there is not enough additional real estate to support a screen of sufficient size to support a good browsing experience. I hope I am wrong but it appears that the additional screen you see is just due to the loss of the trackpad etc. Can that small additional area be available for browsing? It appears that RIM would have been far better off to develop a new Torch that would have the same screen as the Z10. Presumably then the development of Apps for the Keyboard would not have been a problem.

    If I were Samsung, I would be developing a bigger screen keyboard device ASAP. In my view, the total screen AREA ( square screen) should be the same size as the Iphone 4.(rectangle).
    I think we have to give up on Keyboards and embrace the Z10. Keep your BB9900 or even buy one if you don't have one because that may be as good as it gets. If the X10 is not as wide as the Galaxy III, I can't see it succeeding.
  5. girl_Interrupted513's Avatar
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    Totally agree. With the ever-increasing sizes of screens, 4-4.5 in. is the minimum you can go these days, especially with Samsung going 5 in. with the S4 and 6.3 (insane) for the Note 3. Phablets are the future, unfortunately, but for those of us that just care about battery life, call quality and text/email, etc., I feel like BB has dropped the ball here. I currently have an Android slider, and the keyboard is no where near the quality of the one on the Torch I have. Battery life was excellent as well (over a day and a half per charge with moderate use), but that could be because I kept it "bare bones", with the lack of app selection, which is why I switched over in the first place. I just feel that with the launching of a whole new platform, BB's core user base should be wowed with a device they can be proud of, both in terms of aesthetics and OS experience. I feel that RIM has dropped the ball, in favor of placating the masses, and trying to sway users from other the other platforms, which is NOT happening. Native Apple folks are quite happy with their iPhones, and folks on Android have their heads so far up their bums with a feeling of superiority and juvenile hatred towards other platforms, the only way any of those people would even get a BB10 is out of sheer curiosity, but not as a main device. RIM has sold out its core user, and it's disappointing.
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  6. rottonj's Avatar
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    I hope they come out with a slider, that should provide a bigger screen experience. Not thrilled at all from the pics we have seen, Safe to say I will not be getting any of those we have seen so far..
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    The problem is that before long you get too large of a surface to use with a single hand, which is important with a gesture based operating system like BB10. Besides, the Z and X series phones are targeting different audiences: the Z is a consumption device while the X is a communications/productivity device. After all, if phones keep getting larger we'll end up carrying something like the giant phone in the old movie Top Secret
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Just saw this article... we 'lljust have to wait and see-big-phone.jpg  
  8. eddy_berry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Just saw this article... we 'lljust have to wait and see

    ^^ HAHAHA! Funny. Only it will be more like getting a 10.1" iPad, sticking it to your ear and talkin to ur buddy. BT a must.
    For the best typing experience only one brand does it the best. That brand is BlackBerry.
    BlackBerry. Nobody likes a typo.

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  9. Bbnivende's Avatar
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    So the audience that wants to "consume " and use a physical keyboard is left out. If RIM offered a Bold type device with the width of the Galaxy III and one the size of the 9900 possibly the Galaxy width sized device would be the bigger seller BUT perhaps I am wrong. Since the X10 is a just "new" 9900 , I will just keep my current 9900 until I can convert over to the Z10. ( note the screen is square so all I ask for is 5 more mm in width and height )

    Personally I think that the Z10 will outsell the X10 by a margin of 7 to 1 but perhaps that is enough . Essentially, keyboard lovers are captives ... where are they to go, if not to RIM.
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 01-18-2013 at 01:57 PM.
  10. rthonpm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbnivende View Post
    So the audience that wants to "consume " and use a physical keyboard is left out. If RIM offered a Bold type device with the width of the Galaxy III and one the size of the 9900 possibly the Galaxy width sized device would be the bigger seller BUT perhaps I am wrong. Since the X10 is a just "new" 9900 , I will just keep my current 9900 until I can convert over to the Z10. ( note the screen is square so all I ask for is 5 more mm in width and height )

    Personally I think that the Z10 will outsell the X10 by a margin of 7 to 1 but perhaps that is enough . Essentially, keyboard lovers are captives ... where are they to go, if not to RIM.
    It's not so much that they're left out, but that there are trade offs that have to be made. Let's also keep in mind that there are more models that are supposed to be coming this year so what we're seeing as the X and Z series may not be the true high end models for each form factor, or the only size coming. For the most part everyone's uncertainty really won't be cleared up until the actual hardware is in our hands. Truth be told, I initially thought that the 9900/9930 was going to be unwieldly for the width and depth listed in the specs. Of course that turned out to be completely unfounded.

    We'll all rest a little easier once the hardware and OS are complete and released.
  11. mathking606's Avatar
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    If you survived with the current apps on BBOS7 devices then you will survive with having not as optimized apps on the Qwerty phone. It will just be something you might have to sacrifice but anyway we should just wait and see because we do not know everything.
  12. cjcampbell's Avatar
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    The X10 will not be going to market without the same app selection and without the apps being optimized for the screen size. Ever since they announced that there will be two devices, it has been said that the QWERTY will be released sometime after the full touch. 30-60 days is what I recall Thor saying in an interview. The dev C will be handed out after launch for a good reason.... currently, they are working ridiculously long hours to sort through the thousands upon thousands of app submissions already. These need to be done beforehand. Flooding them with pretty much double the apps to work with would cripple the whole dept.

    As for people saying that they aren`t looking out for the users who simply love the physical keyboard, I would have to disagree. If that were the case, why would they even release a QWERTY phone then? Also, the screen is larger than the 9900... not by a lot but still larger. I read people saying "what's the point in going to the X10 if it's just another 9900?" Well, it's not just another 9900. It is a whole new experience... way faster, more apps, better specs, better browser, better camera, better everything.

    Before condeming, try waiting and seeing what it really is all about. Heck, maybe the 9900 will be better for you.... maybe not but don't pass judgement until you really know.
  13. Skeevecr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjcampbell View Post
    The X10 will not be going to market without the same app selection and without the apps being optimized for the screen size. Ever since they announced that there will be two devices, it has been said that the QWERTY will be released sometime after the full touch. 30-60 days is what I recall Thor saying in an interview. The dev C will be handed out after launch for a good reason.... currently, they are working ridiculously long hours to sort through the thousands upon thousands of app submissions already. These need to be done beforehand. Flooding them with pretty much double the apps to work with would cripple the whole dept.
    Indeed and also in many instances, apps will need little to no changes to work just fine on the smaller display. One obvious exception would tend to be games where plenty of those implement their own ui elements and as such would require more rework, but realistically the qwerty blackberry is more of a workhorse that won't expect every single game to be there for it.

    As for people saying that they aren`t looking out for the users who simply love the physical keyboard, I would have to disagree. If that were the case, why would they even release a QWERTY phone then?
    The very idea that Rim would neglect the qwerty audience is laughable, they have continued to improve the keyboards on their devices and the way people are so quick to write stuff off with a negligible basis to do so just seems so silly. Even from the fairly crappy photos we have seen so far there are things to pick up on that could readily result in a better typing experience e.g. the frets between the keys look like they are wider than on my 9900 and just something as simple as that could make you faster or more accurate when typing.
    cjcampbell and eddy_berry like this.
  14. rottonj's Avatar
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    Well Rim really needs to do well with the Qwerty model for the keyboard faithfull. I have been using them for over 10 years as it is easy to use. But times change, and if this isnt a big hit people will be forced to look elsewhere. As there are not many decent keyboard phones left people may switch to touch screen. If that happens lets be truthfull most of the new power phones on the market are very similar, unless the faithfull stay brand specific Rim could lose alot of customers to the Android and Iphone market.
  15. Bbnivende's Avatar
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    I am not condeming X10 . There are no reviews of the X10 so we do not know that it will be "way faster, more apps, better specs, better browser, better camera, better everything. " All I am saying is that the current form factor may not be large enough to entice any excitement in the market place. Perhaps this is just as well .. it is the Z10 that will keep RIM afloat and will be the focus of the launch.
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    I have no idea how people can think that apps won't be adapted for the different resolution.

    Anyone who already develops for BBs already has to optimise for different resolutions, so those guys will be ready for it. Anyone who develops for android has to optimise for dozens of different resolutions (and hardware configurations), so they'll be ready for it. They know what size the screen is going to be too. Have you seen how much effort RIM is putting into getting apps ported ? Huge amounts of effort. You think they are going to neglect that for the X10 launch? Come on people. Give RIM more credit.

    The article is just hilariously negative speculation and scaremongering. Ignore it and move on with your life.
  17. Bbnivende's Avatar
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    OK Crackberries to quote StephenBB81 from another blog:

    RIM has plans and design tools to assist in bringing apps to the N series from the L series, well made apps with the knowledge that resolutions moving forward will have a 720x720 or 1280x720 should be designed as such, content of the app fills the middle while interaction icons are top and bottom allowing the removal of 560 pixels of content while retaining 720 pixels of interaction methods.

    also RIM is addressing things like the size of the notification bar, being smaller on N series vs L series. so don't spread your hate on the PKB by assuming the worst.
    GOOD developers will have planned for both devices in their design phase, indie developers while we love them might have to retool,
    and depending on N series consumer popularity will depend on if they actually do it.

    __________________________

    So on the App side .. looks like your glass is half full
    And for those who are uber e-mailers above all else , your glass is full.
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 01-18-2013 at 09:38 PM.
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  18. Andrew4life's Avatar
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    I don't think the X10 series will be out until at least a month after Z10 availability which should give developers sometime to make changes.
    On the other hand, WP8 didn't launch with that many apps either, but after launch, app development ramped up. So even if the X10 releases to market without lots of apps, it won't take long for devs to port their apps. Also, black barring the app can also be done. Similar to what happened to the old apps on the iPhone when the iPhone 5 came out with an elongated screen.

    It's not going to be fun playing on a tiny screen, but I'd imagine most people with a qwerty aren't going to be playing too many games in the first place so the slight inconvenience won't be a big issue.

    I tried getting the best of both worlds by going with the Torch, so I'm hoping there will be a BB10 torch!!
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  19. lorax1284's Avatar
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    The X10 screen is 720 x 720. What exactly do developers need to know other than that to optimize an app for that resolution? If the SDK / layout apps fight every step of the way to stretch things to 1280 x 768, then yeah, developers will have a hard-ish time, but if all they have to do is write in conditional layout rules or even just include a different "stylesheet" to rearrange screen assets, I don't see how this is too extremely hard.

    Sure, go ahead and design an app with 1280 x 768 resolution paying no mind to how it might look on 720 x 720, then go try to redesign after it's done to fit or adapt to 720 x 720, you're not going to have fun... but if you plan ahead and design for both resolutions from the outset, it's not an impossible task.

    Sure, you can also CHOOSE to rule out 720 x 720, but I don't think anyone designing for iPhone 5 and iPhone 4 and iPad is going to be surprised by trying to develop one code base for 3 different resolutions, and making compromises or forking the code along the way.
    I was tapering off. I'm all tapered out now.
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  20. Goint's Avatar
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    If they are using Cascades then they are fine because of how it does the anchoring. Unless the developer specified an absolute value, which would be crazy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorax1284 View Post
    The X10 screen is 720 x 720. What exactly do developers need to know other than that to optimize an app for that resolution? If the SDK / layout apps fight every step of the way to stretch things to 1280 x 768, then yeah, developers will have a hard-ish time, but if all they have to do is write in conditional layout rules or even just include a different "stylesheet" to rearrange screen assets, I don't see how this is too extremely hard.

    Sure, go ahead and design an app with 1280 x 768 resolution paying no mind to how it might look on 720 x 720, then go try to redesign after it's done to fit or adapt to 720 x 720, you're not going to have fun... but if you plan ahead and design for both resolutions from the outset, it's not an impossible task.

    Sure, you can also CHOOSE to rule out 720 x 720, but I don't think anyone designing for iPhone 5 and iPhone 4 and iPad is going to be surprised by trying to develop one code base for 3 different resolutions, and making compromises or forking the code along the way.
    I totally agree here...App develpers have known FOR EV ER what the two screen resolutions are....I cant imagine BB would make the mistake of telling devs to develop only for the full touch screen resolution....they have everything riding on this release and will make sure everything EXCEEDS our(consumers) expectations....ALSO..although BB is ramping up with this full touch screen...BB bread and butter has always been the physical KB...Im expecting we will all be amazed when BB drops the new devices on us!! *Grins* BlackBerry NATION!!
    ~ Still waters run deep ~
  22. EGerhardt's Avatar
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    Just as another thought... Since there's going to be a 720x720 dev device... How could developers not be in a position to test their apps on that form factor ? The dev kits and SDK will come with that... And presumably RIM aren't dumb enough to give those out AFTER the actual device hits the market...

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