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  1. wiredr's Avatar
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    #51  

    Default re: Blackberry lost face on product release

    Quote Originally Posted by tomsobon View Post
    what they need , is to release those handsets... and if those handsets are not ready, then don't ghost launch them. this is ridiculous I'm sorry, I've read everything that was there to read about the hub, flow, peek etc etc, OVER AND OVER. I've been hooked on blackberry news for months before the luanch, only to find out i need to wait 3 more months?

    Am i the only one pissed off?? really?
    you need to get real you could buy an unlocked phone tomorrow. there are heaps of them for sale its just your carrier won't be selling for 3 months . my carrier in nz won't be carrying the z10. or q10 till probably after xmas but I can get one next week from mobicity if I wanted . its not blackberrys fault you are a tight !@#@ . the choics are there and yet. guys fill the forums up with winging and complaining instead of being positive. and making things happen
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  2. njblackberry's Avatar
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    #52  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbuck View Post
    Actually, BB could survive without the US market. They remained profitable in 2012 on pretty much every other market BUT the US.

    Clearly, it's better for them to get that market back, and that means making sure everything is in place.

    Now, consider this: Verizon's CEO just said yesterday words to the effect of "testing is going ahead of schedule, and we're moving the launch up to mid-March". I could take that at face value, or I COULD interpret that as "we wanted to see how this phone would be received in other markets before we committed".

    Personally, I'm fairly certain that the delay for the US launch wasn't BB's choosing.
    I think you may be incorrect about the profitability. BBRY is showing an operating loss. They are losing money on operations.
    They are doing massive cost cutting. This quarter - with the expected $1bn spent on BB10 marketing - will make a dent. Also, they will not have a full quarter of BB10 sales. I believe their quarter ends 28 Feb.

    "RIM has just announced its earnings for Q3 2013 (the three months ending December 1, 2012 in non-RIM terms), including a five percent drop in revenue to $2.7 billion and an adjusted net loss of $114 million. GAAP net income from "continuing operations" was $14 million, though, or $9 million when taking into account the loss from discontinued operations, and it's also reporting a cash increase of about $600 million to $2.9 billion."

    P.S. I do want them to succeed. They have bet the ranch on BB 10.
  3. Thunderbuck's Avatar

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    #53  

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    Quote Originally Posted by njblackberry View Post
    I think you may be incorrect about the profitability. BBRY is showing an operating loss. They are losing money on operations.
    They are doing massive cost cutting. This quarter - with the expected $1bn spent on BB10 marketing - will make a dent. Also, they will not have a full quarter of BB10 sales. I believe their quarter ends 28 Feb.

    "RIM has just announced its earnings for Q3 2013 (the three months ending December 1, 2012 in non-RIM terms), including a five percent drop in revenue to $2.7 billion and an adjusted net loss of $114 million. GAAP net income from "continuing operations" was $14 million, though, or $9 million when taking into account the loss from discontinued operations, and it's also reporting a cash increase of about $600 million to $2.9 billion."

    P.S. I do want them to succeed. They have bet the ranch on BB 10.
    As you say, they're much of the way (though not all the way) through their cost-cutting program. As well, they've introduced a new product that is receiving a reasonably warm reception. I believe that between these two factors that no, they wouldn't absolutely need the US market to return to profitability. No question, it would help, though.

    Success in the US is going to depend on a good launch there, and that has not happened yet. We actually DON'T know what apps will be available by then, and that's likely the greatest weakness.
    “Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

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  4. Thunderbuck's Avatar

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    #54  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SparkyBC View Post
    The Q10 was NEVER going to be released at launch and was a well known fact. 4-5 months after? Not sure where you went to school but you are WAY off.
    He's going by the (erroneous) press reports that the Q10 might not arrive in the US until June. That was based entirely on speculation.
    “Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

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  5. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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    #55  

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    Quote Originally Posted by njblackberry View Post
    IThis quarter - with the expected $1bn spent on BB10 marketing - will make a dent.
    They are not spending a billion on marketing. This keeps popping up but it isn't true. What Thorsten Heins said was "we will spend more heavily on the launch of BlackBerry 10 (production, sales, marketing, distribution, operations, inventory management etc etc etc) but I do not expect our cash to dip below $2 billion"

    No where has RIM ever said, at any point, we're spending a billion on marketing!
    ------------------------------------
    I like how BlackBerry 10 is evolving, but when are they going to fix BlackBerry Link for Mac?

    The fact that it doesn't reliably do what it's supposed to do ... most of the time ... is utterly appalling. The only consistency is the "Music not copied to Z10 message"
  6. njblackberry's Avatar
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    #56  

    Default

    OK, will see what the next quarter looks like.
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    #57  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ealvnv View Post
    Plain Wrong the phone was available the day after the announcement, now i would it been better to have it already in the US? yes it would, but the fact is that it is already available in some markets, mind you the strongest for BlackBerry, not defending anyone i got your point, but still you are wrong
    He is waiting on the Q10, it clearly says this. YOU are wrong
  8. njblackberry's Avatar
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    #58  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbuck View Post
    As you say, they're much of the way (though not all the way) through their cost-cutting program. As well, they've introduced a new product that is receiving a reasonably warm reception. I believe that between these two factors that no, they wouldn't absolutely need the US market to return to profitability. No question, it would help, though.

    Success in the US is going to depend on a good launch there, and that has not happened yet. We actually DON'T know what apps will be available by then, and that's likely the greatest weakness.
    We are in agreement - but there is a huge risk that corporations (not consumers) may not be ready for a new BES, new hardware, new support costs - particularly if they already have a Mobile Device Management system in place (which won't work with BB10) and have no desire to run two MDMs. And some companies will not allow BYOD unless it is under control of an MDM... Just a consideration. All the chatter so far has been about consumers (who may or may not come back and are much more sensitive to apps) and not so much about the enterprise.
  9. jonty12's Avatar
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    #59  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbuck View Post
    He's going by the (erroneous) press reports that the Q10 might not arrive in the US until June. That was based entirely on speculation.
    That's what we were told when we saw the (not so) erroneous reports saying the Z10 wouldn't release in the U.S. till March.

    Also, at the Canadian launch they said Q10 release would be in April. They didn't say beginning of April, they said April. In BB-speak that means April 30. The Launch was January 30. Even if they hit that date, that would be three months. In what world, unless we're speaking archaeologically, is three months "shortly after" to quote Mr. H.?! Three days ago he said each carrier would release the Q10 8-10 weeks after the Z10. Again, BB-speak that means 10 weeks. We're well into June. How is it erroneous reporting when the CEO says it? See link, but here's the relevant language http://bigstory.ap.org/article/new-b...d-us-mid-march:

    The Q10 will follow and will have a physical keyboard, a feature that has kept BlackBerry users loyal over the years because it makes typing easier. RIM said last week the Q10 will start going on sale on some global carriers in April, but didn't say when U.S. carriers will have it.
    Heins told the AP it depends on the carriers, but said keyboard versions will likely be released eight to 10 weeks after a carrier releases the touch version.

    Kind of makes Kevins blog on the Dec 6 (Sometimes analysts say unfounded things and Forbes quotes them.. BlackBerry 10 phone w/ QWERTY keyboard WILL BE HERE before June | CrackBerry.com ) seem silly now that the CEO has basically confirmed the Forbes piece was right.

    Bottom line: if you want a Q10 in the U.S., expect it in June, be pleasantly surprised if it comes sooner. That way you may not be disappointed. It's all about expectations.
    Last edited by jonty12; 02-08-2013 at 07:02 PM. Reason: fixing link
  10. glennster28's Avatar
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    #60  

    Default

    Think about it this way. Us Canadians and UK folk are beta testing this product. The phone is not perfect, and I expect a few OTA updates before the big US launch. The US is the market they want to get right. So chill bro.
  11. LCW
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    #61  

    Default And once again, Blackberry lost his face on product release

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadWulf View Post
    The launch event was planned months in advance, the US carriers delaying their release was not. Should Thor have moved the main launch site out of NY, to say Toronto? Of course not. Imagine what that would have done to public sentiment and image.

    I understand the frustration. You're not alone. Launch day was a plethora of posts expressing the same feelings. Some things are beyond the manufacturer's control. The Q being a secondary priority I can see getting pushed back, with resources focused on US augmentations.

    Tis what it is
    You gotta admit - it's pretty f'ed up to have the main launch event in NYC and yet the US doesn't get the Z10 on launch, not even in Feb.... But in MARCH!! And the way it's going, will probably be END of March!!!.... Stupid move IMHO.
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    #62  

    Default

    Why are there so many post relating to the Z10 in this Q10 forum. Does anybody even read, the op is refering to the Q10, nobody has this yet.
  13. kbz1960's Avatar
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    #63  

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    Quote Originally Posted by rottonj View Post
    Why are there so many post relating to the Z10 in this Q10 forum. Does anybody even read, the op is refering to the Q10, nobody has this yet.
    From the sounds of it this is a good thing.
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  14. TheScionicMan's Avatar
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    #64  

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    What were their options? Delay the rest of the world until the US carriers were ready to go or maybe they should have blocked the launch broadcast from the US market?

    It's not a sprint, it's a marathon.
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  15. aniym's Avatar
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    #65  

    Default re: Blackberry lost face on product release

    Quote Originally Posted by r0v3rT3N View Post
    Are you joking?
    BlackBerry only needs a strong presence in UK, Canada, India, and Asia.
    They don't fully need the US...
    No electronics manufacturer has made such a ridiculous claim. the ones that don't actively target the US and can survive are companies propped up by governments (Huawei, ZTE etc) or are engaged in businesses outside of consumer electronics (Kyocera, Siemens).

    The US smartphone market is roughly 4x larger than the UK and Canada combined. There is another thread on the board estimating that ~3 million Z10s in Canada could make up 16 percent of all the smart phones in that country. Compare that to the 9 million active BBs in America, a market where they are all but finished.

    Also, the vast majority of high profile tech coverage happens on US based sites: why else would BB have its principal BB10 event in New York? The tech blogs are essentially de facto taste makers for consumers. If the emerging markets are really the land of opportunity, they should think carefully if an Indian consumer who can afford BB10 will even consider it if the Galaxy S3/4 is available at a similar price.

    The type of emerging market customer who can afford a $550 phone unlocked is not the same customer who buys a BB curve for $100 and uses it with his/her $5/month BBM plan.


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    #66  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by njblackberry View Post
    We are in agreement - but there is a huge risk that corporations (not consumers) may not be ready for a new BES, new hardware, new support costs - particularly if they already have a Mobile Device Management system in place (which won't work with BB10) and have no desire to run two MDMs. And some companies will not allow BYOD unless it is under control of an MDM... Just a consideration. All the chatter so far has been about consumers (who may or may not come back and are much more sensitive to apps) and not so much about the enterprise.
    Most business has not gone to MDM/BYOD, so BB has a great opportunity to become the dominant MDM platform. The upgrade is actually fairly easy (we're doing it in my shop right now), and for an awful lot of corporate customers this WILL be their MDM.
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    #67  

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    Lol now it feels good to be a Canadian, its okay Americans.
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    #68  

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    Quote Originally Posted by r0v3rT3N View Post
    Are you joking?
    BlackBerry only needs a strong presence in UK, Canada, India, and Asia.
    They don't fully need the US...
    Yea you must not understand why berry is in the hole they are in.. image is perception is reality.. the US jumps on the Iphone, the world jumps on the iPhone.. the US jumps on Samsung, the world jumps on samsung... the US buries blackberry, the world starts to bury blackberry.. dont be naive, Blackberry needs the US and thats a fact....
  19. kjjb0204's Avatar
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    #69  

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    Blackberry had plenty of time to get this right and they failed as far as the launch goes. Samsung had the sgs3 released on all four major us carriers within a couple weeks of each other. And that was after a short six month development time. There hasn't been a new bb in the us since August 2011. I will definitely give the q10 a look when it finally comes to verizon, but I've always been a bb fanatic and can't see any of my iPhone carrying friends even looking at a new bb.
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  20. Thunderbuck's Avatar

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    #70  

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    Quote Originally Posted by kjjb0204 View Post
    Blackberry had plenty of time to get this right and they failed as far as the launch goes. Samsung had the sgs3 released on all four major us carriers within a couple weeks of each other. And that was after a short six month development time. There hasn't been a new bb in the us since August 2011. I will definitely give the q10 a look when it finally comes to verizon, but I've always been a bb fanatic and can't see any of my iPhone carrying friends even looking at a new bb.
    There's a huge difference between "I didn't like the launch" and "it's a failed launch".

    These guys clearly did the Z10 launch differently from the PlayBook launch. Remember that? The one that actually missed the desired deadline of making it to market before the iPad 2? The one where they offered it for sale before they knew whether or not they'd be able to create a BBOS Java runtime? (btw, that was how they planned to implement e-mail and backward compatibility until they had to finally admit that it wasn't going to work)

    The Z10 had a decent launch. Especially in comparison to their last major launch.
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    #71  

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomsobon View Post
    I don’t know how long I will keep defending you...
    Yeah, right there. Why in the h*ll do you and others feel the need to defend BlackBerry? Nothing wrong with being a fanboy. But, why not let BlackBerry defend BlackBerry? I'm on my 14th BlackBerry. Big Woop! There's now one more thing I don't feel the need to argue about: Women, religion, politics, and BlackBerries. Wars have been fought over the first three. The other is only a d*mn phone! But, a very good one. But, I do agree with your post. If we're that important of a market, the BlackBerries are ready(not talking about the apps), and the carriers want them........WTF? Yeah, I know. But, I still don't have to like it or the BS, overpriced SuperBowl infocrapmmercial.
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  22. kjjb0204's Avatar
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    #72  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbuck View Post
    There's a huge difference between "I didn't like the launch" and "it's a failed launch".

    These guys clearly did the Z10 launch differently from the PlayBook launch. Remember that? The one that actually missed the desired deadline of making it to market before the iPad 2? The one where they offered it for sale before they knew whether or not they'd be able to create a BBOS Java runtime? (btw, that was how they planned to implement e-mail and backward compatibility until they had to finally admit that it wasn't going to work)

    The Z10 had a decent launch. Especially in comparison to their last major launch.
    That's the beauty of an opinion. I don't have to agree with yours and you don't have to agree with mine. I think it was a massive failure. I think the launch should have been an event that created massive excitement and hope. Should have had music, lighting, dynamic presentations. What we got was a bland CEO speaking in monotone, showing his nerves. The audience had to be poked for applause and it was plain boring. Almost no time spent on the q10, few details on hard launch dates, awkwardness throughout the whole thing. Bb can learn a lot from the apple marketing machine. They do such an amazing job with launches and events that average products seem like shining stars. Please don't try to compare this with the playbook launch. The future of the company didn't ride on the playbook success or failure. The z10 and q10 mean everything to the future of bb.
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    #73  

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    I too have used numerous BB's battery pulls and all. I have used a couple Android devices, but always returned to the Apple Ecosystem. Currently I use an iPhone 5 and have been very happy, it is a great OS and phone. However I have really been desiring a new modern BB. I was really angry about the presentation in NY and belied a few of my less than kind posts about it were deleted. I am a Canadian living in the States and was looking forward to buying Canadian. As a matter of fact I was down right excited. Not only is the delay unacceptable, but the loss of blackberry distinctives is ridiculous! Where are the profiles? The BIS? I am disappointed beyond words! Disappointed in Thor and Rim! I may buy a 10Q if and when it gets here ... then again I might not.
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    #74  

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    Everyone is so upset about BIS being gone when it was always being said that BIS slows everything down so bb will never compete also when the blackouts happened what where they? BIS blackouts. Now all of a sudden people want their slow unreliable BIS back.

    I thought I heard many people left bb because of BIS. Can't win.
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  25. Thunderbuck's Avatar

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    #75  

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    Quote Originally Posted by kjjb0204 View Post
    That's the beauty of an opinion. I don't have to agree with yours and you don't have to agree with mine. I think it was a massive failure. I think the launch should have been an event that created massive excitement and hope. Should have had music, lighting, dynamic presentations. What we got was a bland CEO speaking in monotone, showing his nerves. The audience had to be poked for applause and it was plain boring. Almost no time spent on the q10, few details on hard launch dates, awkwardness throughout the whole thing. Bb can learn a lot from the apple marketing machine. They do such an amazing job with launches and events that average products seem like shining stars. Please don't try to compare this with the playbook launch. The future of the company didn't ride on the playbook success or failure. The z10 and q10 mean everything to the future of bb.
    The only objective measure I can think of to judge a launch is the success of the product, and we have little clear sense of what that is. You call it a bland presentation, I call it "managing expectations". Anyone who'd buy a Z10 strictly because they'd been impressed by a flashy launch event would have returned it in a week.

    And for the sake of full disclosure, no, I wasn't nuts about the launch presentation either, but I have a hard time seeing how it reflects on the product. Maybe you can clear that up for me.

    I also think the late US launch has more to do with the carriers wanting to see how well the Z10 did in other markets before they risked too much money on marketing an unknown quantity. That's not BB's fault.
    “Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

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