[BBKrzy]

If you look at any polls run on this site or others, the actual ratio seems to be more like at least 2:1 in favour of the z10 over the q10.

LOL! Only because the Z10 has launched already and is the first one being launched before the Q10. I see alot more people asking about the Q10. Much more anticipated than the Z10. All about the Qwerty!

[Bbnivende]

I'll see your LOL and raise you two LOL's

Even Thor Heins estimates the Z10 will outsell the Q10 . Don't really care as long as people buy !

[Acharas]

I anticipated the coming Q10, just as much as all of you. And yes Blackberry is to be blamed for the communication strategy. The too huge expectations and the ever pushed forward timing, leads to "too late, to little perception" now.

But... imho, we are talking about a smartphone. As I remember it, this is a piece of plastic hardware. It is available at limited cost. If we dont like it, if it stalls all the time, if it is stolen, if it's broke... we go to the store, grab another one. Real relevance in real life... well... let's say... none.

For me, it ended up changing last week my old Bold 8900 with a new Bold 9900. I need the hardware keyboard badly, and I'm not prepared waiting any longer after the first impressions on BB10. The 9900 works (very!) well for me, in comination with my Playbook. The 9900 costs me probably 1/3th of the price of a new Q10. As I experience how my 9900 - Playbook combination works in real life. It's great.

More than happy. Let's wait for the second generation BB10's. Let's hope they are still up and running...

[Thunderbuck]

I anticipated the coming Q10, just as much as all of you. And yes Blackberry is to be blamed for the communication strategy. The too huge expectations and the ever pushed forward timing, leads to "too late, to little perception" now.

What "too huge expectations"?

But... imho, we are talking about a smartphone. As I remember it, this is a piece of plastic hardware. It is available at limited cost. If we dont like it, if it stalls all the time, if it is stolen, if it's broke... we go to the store, grab another one. Real relevance in real life... well... let's say... none.

For me, it ended up changing last week my old Bold 8900 with a new Bold 9900. I need the hardware keyboard badly, and I'm not prepared waiting any longer after the first impressions on BB10. The 9900 works (very!) well for me, in comination with my Playbook. The 9900 costs me probably 1/3th of the price of a new Q10. As I experience how my 9900 - Playbook combination works in real life. It's great.

More than happy. Let's wait for the second generation BB10's. Let's hope they are still up and running...

And in your particular case, that may be the better choice right now, anyway. If there's an unreasonable expectation at all, it's users migrating to a brand new platform and expecting exactly the same features and implementation that they had on the old one. For many users, particularly those who depend on finely-tuned notification profiles and Outlook sync over USB, or who have a specific app that they relied on that's not on BB10 yet, an OS7 device may well be the better choice.

I'm honestly very hopeful about BB at this point. The Z10 is an excellent device right now. Maybe not specifically for you, but there are many users it would fit to a T. I also believe that as more people see how good it actually is, word of mouth will help sell it.

[mike Steele]

So we all should be remembering The Storm?

[BBKrzy]

I'll see your LOL and raise you two LOL's

Even Thor Heins estimates the Z10 will outsell the Q10 . Don't really care as long as people buy !

And i am supposed to have faith in anything he says WHY??? And how does he know what will outsell what? Both phones have not even been released worldwide!! The qwerty has and always will be their best phone. Thor doesn't know his *** from a hole in the ground. Polls on websites don't mean ****.

[TheScionicMan]

Everyone is so upset about BIS being gone when it was always being said that BIS slows everything down so bb will never compete also when the blackouts happened what where they? BIS blackouts. Now all of a sudden people want their slow unreliable BIS back.

I thought I heard many people left bb because of BIS. Can't win.

Like many of the contradictory stances we see here on CB, it could be a case of different factions wanting different things. Not so sure that the same people that hated BIS are the same ones complaining about the lack thereof...

[TheScionicMan]

And i am supposed to have faith in anything he says WHY??? And how does he know what will outsell what? Both phones have not even been released worldwide!! The qwerty has and always will be their best phone. Thor doesn't know his *** from a hole in the ground. Polls on websites don't mean ****.

Do you think that's the only input they've received? Thor's ideas and website polls?

I guess asking YOU would have given them the definitive answer...

[Crowezine]

Yes. BlackBerry is extremely popular here in the UK. I've heard people say they'll keep their iPads, but not their iPhones.
Apple is still heavily competetive on the tablet side of things, but their phone popularity is going down, because a lot of iPhone users are moving to Z10's/BlackBerry.

I know a friend who has 700 bbm contacts, and there is 700 customers right there. Ok, a company can't live off 700 people, but it still proves that loads of people love BlackBerry.

So whatever, BlackBerry - formerly RIM - have had some bad experiences as a company, and Legacy OS will never be the best. But BlackBerry 10, the rebranding, and the firing of some useless employees have given the company a new start.

Thorsten is really an inspirational man, and he will always do what he can.

[BBKrzy]

Do you think that's the only input they've received? Thor's ideas and website polls?

I guess asking YOU would have given them the definitive answer...

Wow, someone just climbed out on the wrong side of their baby bed today! It is so immature to even be starting arguments over a device that has not even been released yet.Honestly who CARES what phone outsells what other phone. I won't go there. All i can say is.. OPINIONS VARY!

[Bbnivende]

I anticipated the coming Q10, just as much as all of you. And yes Blackberry is to be blamed for the communication strategy. The too huge expectations and the ever pushed forward timing, leads to "too late, to little perception" now.

But... imho, we are talking about a smartphone. As I remember it, this is a piece of plastic hardware. It is available at limited cost. If we dont like it, if it stalls all the time, if it is stolen, if it's broke... we go to the store, grab another one. Real relevance in real life... well... let's say... none.

For me, it ended up changing last week my old Bold 8900 with a new Bold 9900. I need the hardware keyboard badly, and I'm not prepared waiting any longer after the first impressions on BB10. The 9900 works (very!) well for me, in comination with my Playbook. The 9900 costs me probably 1/3th of the price of a new Q10. As I experience how my 9900 - Playbook combination works in real life. It's great.

More than happy. Let's wait for the second generation BB10's. Let's hope they are still up and running...

I like you have a PB and a 9900 . Unlike you I have no urgency in my buying decision. There is an electronics store beside my grocery store and they have a tester Z10 on display. Every time I try it, I come back to my 9900 and think ... no big deal. My screen seems as sharp but more vivid than the Z10. The one aspect of the Z10 I appreciate is the multitasking features. I do think over time I could get used to the touch keyboard ( because I am not a big business e-mailer). So my bottom line is that my 9900 fully meets my purposes at least for another year.

Next to the Z10 was a Iphone 5. I really like its display... so bright , crisp and cheery. The icon based system is just fine for the type of uses I have. Graphically, the Z10 seems rather dull and uninspired. BB needs to up its game in the graphics area. I still would get a Z10 over an Iphone 5 however . The Iphone is too tall and narrow for virtual typing whereas the Z has very comfortable dimensions. The keyboard on the Z is bigger as well. I WANT to buy blackberry but ultimately I will go with the best phone a year from now.

[Bbnivende]

And i am supposed to have faith in anything he says WHY??? And how does he know what will outsell what? Both phones have not even been released worldwide!! The qwerty has and always will be their best phone. Thor doesn't know his *** from a hole in the ground. Polls on websites don't mean ****.

I will throw an dog a bone . BB once had a 30% market share in the USA even after the Iphone came out. Since then the percentage of BB users has fallen to less than 5%. There are a lot of former BB owners that are using Iphones and Androids currently. I can see how former BB owners who have had their Iphone fling might want to come back to the "classic BB" now that the OS is "modern" . The Q10 pick up should be a greater % of total BB10 sales in the USA than for example in Canada or the United Kingdom where the BB drop off was not as extreme.

[lynxs_claw]

LOL! Only because the Z10 has launched already and is the first one being launched before the Q10. I see alot more people asking about the Q10. Much more anticipated than the Z10. All about the Qwerty!

No I wouldn't say this is entirely true. Many BB users have the Torch like my wife and I. Why? Cause you get the bigger screen and the physical keyboard cause typing for us under glass is less effective for us. But we are both partial to the bigger screen and if the typing experience under glass was better we'd switch. So my wife now uses the z10 and mine is on order from work - many BB users at work/family/friends have put their order's in for the z10 cause they've tried the demo on the predictive keyboard on the z10 and it's reallythat good - and good enough to switch. So that's several individuals that were once diehard keyboard fans that are willing to make the switch. The z10 sales will far outweigh the q10 due to BB's new keyboard technology.

[Skeevecr]

Wow, someone just climbed out on the wrong side of their baby bed today! It is so immature to even be starting arguments over a device that has not even been released yet.Honestly who CARES what phone outsells what other phone. I won't go there. All i can say is.. OPINIONS VARY!

When people are declaring things have been messed up and use the argument that it is because BB have released the qwerty phone first then it is not those who correct that opinion that are getting out the wrong side of bed this morning it is those who choose to use insults or abuse of posters on here or Thor such as yourself.

While opinions vary, it is a simple fact that all-touch devices sell far more in general than qwerty phones and the gap is widening, so even if they did think the q10 would sell more to current BB users (which they don't), the crucial thing for them was to show that them and bb10 had changed from the old BB and the easiest way to do that was to start straight away with an all-touch device that people would actually want to buy, whereas launching the q10 first would have sent the message of same old BB stuck in the physical qwerty world and allowed negative press to dismiss bb10 too.

[Thunderbuck]

^ This.

The market has changed. And at this point millions of people are now familiar with virtual keyboards. Mind you, most of those people now hate virtual keyboards, but are prepared to tolerate them for the sake of having maximum screen area for media and games.

In many cases, these users will be impressed with the Z10. Had the Q10 been released first, I agree that the public would have dismissed BB10 as another "old fashioned" boring old BlackBerry.

Posted via CB10

[os30]

Bottom line is this... announcing a product one month and it only being available 2-3months later in important markets (for whatever reason/excuse) is pretty unacceptable. Perhaps Apple can get away with this but BlackBerry cannot! (Talking about the Q10 here). The buzz, etc would have died down. Also I hear Samsung is releasing their Galaxy S4 in March (possibly swaying customers further away from BB). It's as simple as this... delays give the competition time to react and get a foothold. This is not great for a company that's "Making a Comeback". I think people on this forum that are "Complaining " are voicing their frustration at this. And they are quite entitled to do so without the personal abuse from others that don't agree.

Posted via CB10

[os30]

Also, why don't blackberry sell the devices direct to customers unlocked from their website to get around the "Carrier Testing" issue? BBM, bis , etc do not require any specific data plan (users can just pop their sim in and go) so this is feasible too.

Agreed they don't have the physical store distribution network that Apple does, but surely they could partner with amazon (although they are in theory a competitor) or some other bug retailer to shift the volume.

Posted via CB10

[Thunderbuck]

Bottom line is this... announcing a product one month and it only being available 2-3months later in important markets (for whatever reason/excuse) is pretty unacceptable. Perhaps Apple can get away with this but BlackBerry cannot! (Talking about the Q10 here). The buzz, etc would have died down. Also I hear Samsung is releasing their Galaxy S4 in March (possibly swaying customers further away from BB). It's as simple as this... delays give the competition time to react and get a foothold. This is not great for a company that's "Making a Comeback". I think people on this forum that are "Complaining " are voicing their frustration at this. And they are quite entitled to do so without the personal abuse from others that don't agree.

Posted via CB10

BlackBerry is far from the only company to have "Staged" launches. I've been pointing out that Nokia showed the Lumia 920 in early September even though it wasn't available until November.

You mentioned the new SG IV, and sure it's being announced March 14, but nobody is expecting it in the US much before May.

Posted via CB10

[os30]

Finally a valid and balanced counter argument. Thanks ThunderBuck.

Yes agreed, a staggered launch is quite popular. But imagine the buzz If Thorsten said " these are the new BB10 Devices and they are available now from our website! " even by pre order a la Mr Jobs. The buzz would have been incredible! But I do take your point.

What are your thoughts re direct sales from their site of unlocked devices from the blackberry website? BlackBerry has traditionally depended on carriers in the past (I'm guessing because of the specific data plans that were required) but since they don't have to worry about that anymore, one wonders why they don't give it a go and just sell to who ever wants them, no matter where in the world they may be (within reason of course)? Google does it too. Thoughts?

Posted via CB10

[Thunderbuck]

Remember that even the iPhone wasn't available directly from Apple for years, and only after it was an established hit.

BB still needs to accommodate the carriers, like it or not.

Posted via CB10

[imz]

BB still needs to accommodate the carriers, like it or not.

The carriers don't really seem to be accommodating Blackberry, well the people working for the carriers anyway... they are still pushing Samsung & Apple over here in the UK, and we're supposed to be one of the biggest markets for Blackberry.

Over in the US, they don't seem to be in any rush to get the Z10 out, not that I care, I'm in the UK and have my Z10, just saying...

[os30]

One wonders how difficult it would be for BlackBerry to do direct sales. Even via some sort of partnership website. I'm not in the sales business so I guess there are challenges with this. But it would solve the "Carriers" testing issue IMHO. They can do this in addition to the Carrier launch that they are currently doing. But then again, like I mentioned, I'm not in sales...

Posted via CB10

[Thunderbuck]

No, the carriers in the US aren't particularly accommodating. Are they supposed to be?

Posted via CB10

[imz]

But it would solve the "Carriers" testing issue IMHO.

I for one would like to know what testing actually entails. I have this image of a Z10 on some IT guy's desk gathering dust whilst he's busy reinstalling a new rom on his Android phone.
What kind of testing takes more than a couple of days or a week at max?

Does the phone switch on? Check
Does it make & receive calls? Check
Send & receive texts? Check
Internet? Check

[os30]

Yes agreed. Not sure what the carriers are actually testing that's taking so long. Other manufacturers have never given this reason for delayed products before (as far as I know but I'm sure googling that will correct me). But let's hope that there are no further delays. Wouldn't be a good look at all. I and a lot of people are really looking for ward to the Q10 (some unlucky ones the z10)

Oh.. and mr_z10, since you are in the UK have you downloaded the "National Rail Times " app, rated 5stars yet? I'm joking obviously.... before someone verbally attacks again lol.

Posted via CB10