[belfastdispatcher]

The market for people treating their handset like you suggest they should do, is just not big enough.

The BBOS devices do not make a profit. As a business, keeping BBOS was a dead end into irrelevancy.


Posted via CB10

Make a new one that could make profit with efficiencies like using as many hardware parts from BB10 devices as they can.

The existing 2+ year old devices might not make money but a new improved on with the added service revenue bonus could make a profit.

They've made hardware for so long I'm sure they can make a profitable device again, after all OS7 was profitable at one point but for how long can they make a profit with it, it's so old now.

[crackcookie]

I have to say wow this is great, so many great thoughts and people have come out. I love that young guys are here too. Not saying you are little kiddies, but I love that I see people with low post counts debating with high post count guys, it is always fun seeing future crackberry people grow up here, and to do it in a respectful manner leaves me with high hopes for this board!

I must say, I don't have a Z/Q10 yet, and it is sad they talk more about being iphone than BB. Cuz why would an iphone user, leave his phone for a lesser phone? BB really does need to step up and bring the crack back, but that can be done easily via software patches and updates.

Let's not talk Windows 8 because that is so bad they are re-releasing it in a month or two because of all the hate for it.

While the Z10 took some steps forward I feel it took some back. And that is the problem with BB, fragmentation of the user base. Most would rather keep their clunky efficient device than upgrade. So when someone looks at their phone they wonder...why are you using that, as it doesn't appeal to most casual users. So the BB really must advance with all its lovely nuances, THEN, add netflix and that stuff.....but charity starts at home. Hopefully BB makes this phone better sooner!

[marcusperkins]

I don't think anybody wants the old OS. It was out of date, slow, and on its knees in comparison to the competition. However, it worked exceptionally well in certain core areas.

For all the power of the new OS, it can't compete with the old OS in those areas for sheer efficiency. This is down entirely to the UI for messaging.

The rest is extremely good - but misplaced on the Q10.

Look at BlackBerry maps for example, it probably has the best genuine satnav of any mobile ever, it works just like any car based system. It is simple and efficient. But people who need or use satnav probably already have one so it's not really that useful. The maps that people probably need most on their mobile is for walking and cycling, an area where android is king. In comparison BlackBerry's offering is woefully limited.

The browser is massively improved, but the experience won't be as good as on a full touchscreen phone. And if you're watching a movie, the image is four times smaller. Moving on to games, nobody is going to buy a Q10 to play games on - why would they?

So who and what is the Q10 for? For all the advancements, it can never compete in the areas of browser, mapping and games simply because of the screen size.

The only remaining area in which the Q10 should truly excell is in messaging (email/text/chat) but it appears to be less efficient than on an out dated OS. How can this be?

The Q10 cannot be a Z10 with a keyboard. It simply does not work. The Q10 needs to be its own system that makes the most of that beautiful keyboard.

In its current form the Q10 is a compromise, and if BlackBerry can't figure out how to turn it into a focused tool it will surely fail. And that will be a massive shame for us all.

[xanadome]

As a business, keeping BBOS was a dead end into irrelevancy.

A bit off the track. I do not think anybody here is talking about "keeping" the BBOS.

[MarsupilamiX]

Make a new one that could make profit with efficiencies like using as many hardware parts from BB10 devices as they can.

The existing 2+ year old devices might not make money but a new improved on with the added service revenue bonus could make a profit.

They've made hardware for so long I'm sure they can make a profitable device again, after all OS7 was profitable at one point but for how long can they make a profit with it, it's so old now.

The competition would crush everything that BlackBerry could produce with BBOS.
There is no profitability to be seen through that OS.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_operating_system

Look at these numbers, and then tell me, how great BBOS is compared to the competition.

And that is not even factoring in, the financial depreciation the enterprise had to go through, or the lost of shareholder value.
Its not hard to double the user base from 40 million to 80 million (+100%) when the whole market for smartphones grew a 1000%.

And we also didn't analyse where the sales and the growth from 40 to 80 million came from. If they came mostly from the low end, it also isn't hard to achieve that.

A bit off the track. I do not think anybody here is talking about "keeping" the BBOS.

BelfastD is

Posted via CB10

[xanadome]

The only remaining area in which the Q10 should truly excell is in messaging (email/text/chat) but it appears to be less efficient than on an out dated OS. How can this be?

The Q10 cannot be a Z10 with a keyboard. It simply does not work. The Q10 needs to be its own system that makes the most of that beautiful keyboard.

In its current form the Q10 is a compromise, and if BlackBerry can't figure out how to turn it into a focused tool it will surely fail. And that will be a massive shame for us all.

Fully agree. I suppose that people who lament the demise of legacy BB all share a similar thought. New improved and innovative platform? By all means!
But...
I am a (semi) convert from the iPhone. "Semi" because I discovered a BB (9700--->9780 at the time, I believe) a few years ago, and since have been rocking a BB (now 9900) as my daily driver. When I need to dig into Google, or navigation etc (I do not play games or watch movies etc), I reach for my iPhone 5. But I of course wished that I did not have to carry two devices.
When I joined this forum, I felt a bit alienated, as people here all seem to be fanatical BB fanboys (maybe so :-). They talked about BB bing a "communication" device. At the time, I thought it was some sort of sour grape against iPhone, Androids and the likes. Soon, I discovered that BB indeed was a very efficient device for email/text/inst. messaging, anything to do with fast texting. Calendar, to do list, and notes etc are also important to me. It was not at all difficult to know that BB was a joke when it came to graphic rendering and internet etc. But the merits overrode demerits, and I was comfortable enough to push my iPhone aside and carry the 9900 as a daily driver. The 9900 was just fine 90% of the time.

Sorry for a long episode of personal history on devices, but the moral of this background is this.
If the Q10 would bring some of those core functionalities and conveniences back with physical keyboard (mostly for the shortcuts in my case) and the current superb browsing capability of Q10, then I can ditch the iPhone (I still use my iPad etc). If BBRY realize why the die hard, a quarter century Apple user like me was willing to switch to a BB, then they would realize a huge market potential. Also, Q10's size is perfect. I do not mind a smaller screen for what I used the device for. Laptop/desktop and iPad are always within my reach anyway, if a larger display becomes critical.

Even if BBRY might start working on an "improved" version of the Q10, I would suppose that they might need at least another year or so before they could come up with something that might help rapidly increase the market share. Right now, I have to wonder if OS10 devices are selling that well, though.....

[xanadome]

MarsupilamiX, I am not challenging you in any way, but aren't we talking about building on the legacy of the BBOS, but not duplicating it?

Anyway, it was a good discussion. Hope Q10 will change her costume and reappear as a matured cougar (and soon :-).

[jegs2]

I've no wish to see BlackBerry retain the older OS, but I would like to see BlackBerry re-implement many of the features in the older OS (that were quite popular) into the newer OS. Really don't think that's so much to ask, especially since the newer devices and OS are supposed to be more capable.

[MarsupilamiX]

MarsupilamiX, I am not challenging you in any way, but aren't we talking about building on the legacy of the BBOS, but not duplicating it?

Anyway, it was a good discussion. Hope Q10 will change her costume and reappear as a matured cougar (and soon :-).

I agree fully there.
For the old fans, there needs to be a little bit more of the old BlackBerries in them, but without going the duplicate route.

Maybe it should be considered to make more physical keyboard device specified changes.
To my understanding, BlackBerry tries to do that already.

On the other hand, if someone just wants a really good PKB, without even knowing what shortcuts are (yes, there are a lot BlackBerry users like that), the Q10 is the only option on the market. This must be realised as well.

To say it again:
I do not disagree with the idea, of having some more specialised physical keyboard features, as long as BB10 doesn't come BBOS too close.

BB10 must also be a compelling Touchscreen only option. To ensure growth, through taking away sales that would have gone to the competition, this is absolutely needed.
I think we all know, how well BlackBerry's experiments with touchscreen only devices went.

Whitout convincing the market that BlackBerry can actually do that, its existence is far from being assured.


Posted via CB10

[xanadome]

BB10 must also be a compelling Touchscreen only option. To ensure growth, through taking away sales that would have gone to the competition, this is absolutely needed.
I think we all know, how well BlackBerry's experiments with touchscreen only devices went.

Whitout convincing the market that BlackBerry can actually do that, its existence is far from being assured.

I fully agree with this.

The market is going toward, and the usability dictates, touch screen device, eliminating the PKB and its space, which is only used occasionally. BBRY must be able to compete there. But then, they will become just "one of them" as well.
Actually, as I posted elsewhere in this forum, I dream about the possible homescreen keyboard shortcuts etc on Z10 VKB. I learned that you can call up the Z10's keyboard "on demand" by 2 finger gesture. If that's the case (I had a Q10 but not a Z10, so I am assuming that this is correct), and if BBRY can implement software keyboard shortcuts or speed dialling (those are not the only features missing in OS10), then Z10 would be a winner.
BBRY eliminated dedicated phone buttons and other useful keys, together with trackpad. I suppose they wanted to squeeze more screen real estate by eliminating those mechanical buttons, but they did not give us any substitutes. Dedicated phone buttons, for example, can bring up phone app from anywhere, while we have to seek for it in the OS10 before we can dial.
If the Z10 can accommodate all advantages of full touch screen phone, combined with those of PKB by way of some kind of software key magic, Z10 would be an undisputed winner of all. Did BBRY still have a chance? I do not know, but wish someone there would think all those wishes from BB fans and somehow accomplish the "magic" :-).

[belfastdispatcher]

I fully agree with this.

The market is going toward, and the usability dictates, touch screen device, eliminating the PKB and its space, which is only used occasionally. BBRY must be able to compete there. But then, they will become just "one of them" as well.
Actually, as I posted elsewhere in this forum, I dream about the possible homescreen keyboard shortcuts etc on Z10 VKB. I learned that you can call up the Z10's keyboard "on demand" by 2 finger gesture. If that's the case (I had a Q10 but not a Z10, so I am assuming that this is correct), and if BBRY can implement software keyboard shortcuts or speed dialling (those are not the only features missing in OS10), then Z10 would be a winner.
BBRY eliminated dedicated phone buttons and other useful keys, together with trackpad. I suppose they wanted to squeeze more screen real estate by eliminating those mechanical buttons, but they did not give us any substitutes. Dedicated phone buttons, for example, can bring up phone app from anywhere, while we have to seek for it in the OS10 before we can dial.
If the Z10 can accommodate all advantages of full touch screen phone, combined with those of PKB by way of some kind of software key magic, Z10 would be an undisputed winner of all. Did BBRY still have a chance? I do not know, but wish someone there would think all those wishes from BB fans and somehow accomplish the "magic" :-).

I can't remember how you called up the keyboard but the Storm 2 had what you suggest, virtual keyboard shortcuts, I guess BB forgot.

[OLY-JIM]

I have a Z10, but I continue to run my 9900 side by side. I like the Z10 a lot, but I know BBOS like the back of my hand and when I have to plow through a mountain of email, SMS, IM, and whatever else...I still turn to the 9900. I simply find the 9900 to be an incredibly efficient device and I continue to dig all of the shortcuts. Is a Q10 in my future, no doubt, but they'll need to fine tune the Q10's features before I'll make the jump. For the time being, the Z10 / 9900 is my combo and I like it that way.

[xanadome]

I can't remember how you called up the keyboard but the Storm 2 had what you suggest, virtual keyboard shortcuts, I guess BB forgot.

Oh, so RIM did have it those days! So, they can do it.
I guess BB indeed forgot it, LOL.

Failing that, I can use another way of calling up applications quickly like QuickLaunch used to provide. I can live with that at least for now. If that would be implemented properly, the need for the "home screen" shortcuts is pretty much eliminated. When I had a Q10 for a short while, one of my complaints was the tediousness to get to a needed application. I was not at all impressed by the "flow" thing (fear of being sued by Apple? :-), and constantly changing home screen whenever different application was opened. Press a space bar, for example, and the list of frequently used application will be displayed as a drop down menu. I can live with that :-).
Q10 (and Z10 as well) just needs some way to bring up an application quickly. Phone application does have the speed dial capability but the application has to be opened before taking advantage of it. One touch application caller will do.

[wirelessgal]

This is the perfect example of someone with common sense.

Posted via CB10 - FinalD_WPG - C00016D82

Thank you. Some people expect too much so soon. No company has ever accomplished that when they are rebuilding.

[dirtnapper75]

I miss the track on the bold...editing text on the Q10 can be irritating because I was so used to the track. It was also nice for mousing in the browser. Other than that, loving the Q10. It has some manageable glitches but I'm sure those will get ironed out before long.

[weiberry]

More I learned more I like 9900. Come on, let it be 9900-1, 9900-2, ... 9900-5. I also like Playbook Retina. I bought 4 Playbook for myself and family/friends.