[z3user]

The reason being the - leaked - model number.
If you look at all the model numbers (code) for all the full touch phones,
Z10- STL100
Z30- STA100
Z3 - STJ100
Leap - STR100
And the qwerty phones
Q10 - SQN100
Q5 - SQR100
Passport - SQW100
Classic - SQC100
So the pattern for the model numbers are ( I think)
'S'martphone - 'T'ouch - codename
'S'martphone - 'Q'werty - codename
(ex. Z10- 'S'martphone - 'T'ouch - 'L'ondon)
And the leaked Model number (code) for the Venice was
STV100
So it means 'S'martphone - 'T'ouch - 'V'enice
And that means BlackBerry considers the Venice as a full touch device than a Qwerty one.
So for anyone who was hoping for a high end Full Touch only smartphone (no hardware keyboard at all) after the Venice... Might have to wait longer

(hopefully I made sense... English isn't my first language)

Quit hating, Start appreciating! Android is good and BlackBerry10 is good! 그만 싸웁시다

[dc2000]

The reason being the - leaked - model number.
If you look at all the model numbers (code) for all the full touch phones,
Z10- STL100
Z30- STA100
Z3 - STJ100
Leap - STR100
And the qwerty phones
Q10 - SQN100
Q5 - SQR100
Passport - SQW100
Classic - SQC100
So the pattern for the model numbers are ( I think)
'S'martphone - 'T'ouch - codename
'S'martphone - 'Q'werty - codename
(ex. Z10- 'S'martphone - 'T'ouch - 'L'ondon)
And the leaked Model number (code) for the Venice was
STV100
So it means 'S'martphone - 'T'ouch - 'V'enice
And that means BlackBerry considers the Venice as a full touch device than a Qwerty one.
So for anyone who was hoping for a high end Full Touch only smartphone (no hardware keyboard at all) after the Venice... Might have to wait longer

(hopefully I made sense... English isn't my first language)

Quit hating, Start appreciating! Android is good and BlackBerry10 is good! 그만 싸웁시다

This is a good explanation. Good job!

[z3user]

This is a good explanation. Good job!

Thanks

Quit hating, Start appreciating! Android is good and BlackBerry10 is good! 그만 싸웁시다

[ayngling]

Yeah good job!

For those wanting touch only, I hope you can like this phone now that is has been shown to be as thin as it is! No trade-off (I know, you would like a bigger battery instead, but give it a chance please, we need this phone to be a success).

[Sallem]

Very nicely explained Points

Posted via CB10

[00stryder]

This makes so much sense.

Posted via CB10

[Mr2KiEu]

Great detective work! What we're all of the code names for the other previous BlackBerrys?

[Mataras]

Z30-STA=Smartphone-Touch-Aristo

Posted via Z30

[dusanvn]

The reason being the - leaked - model number.
If you look at all the model numbers (code) for all the full touch phones,
Z10- STL100
Z30- STA100
Z3 - STJ100
Leap - STR100
And the qwerty phones
Q10 - SQN100
Q5 - SQR100
Passport - SQW100
Classic - SQC100
So the pattern for the model numbers are ( I think)
'S'martphone - 'T'ouch - codename
'S'martphone - 'Q'werty - codename
(ex. Z10- 'S'martphone - 'T'ouch - 'L'ondon)
And the leaked Model number (code) for the Venice was
STV100
So it means 'S'martphone - 'T'ouch - 'V'enice
And that means BlackBerry considers the Venice as a full touch device than a Qwerty one.
So for anyone who was hoping for a high end Full Touch only smartphone (no hardware keyboard at all) after the Venice... Might have to wait longer

(hopefully I made sense... English isn't my first language)

Quit hating, Start appreciating! Android is good and BlackBerry10 is good! 그만 싸웁시다

So, the initial intention was to introduce new OS on an all-touch phone with the well-proven 16:9 screen aspect ratio. Just features, without gimmicks.

That was a very good plan. Unfortunately a 'smart' decision maker has came up with an idea like 'an additional physical keyboard shouldn't harm, just can make it better-seller'. The Slider was born, and following it...

I can't find words to say how big a mistake it was.


P.S. I like physical keyboards.

Posted via CB10/BB PP SE.

[z3user]

Great detective work! What we're all of the code names for the other previous BlackBerrys?

Yet to study those

Quit hating, Start appreciating! Android is good and BlackBerry10 is good! 그만 싸웁시다

[guygardner73]

Z3, smartphone, Touch, Jakharta.

PassportSQW100-1/10.3.1.2576 O2 UK

[guygardner73]

Passport = smartphone, qwerty, Windermere

PassportSQW100-1/10.3.1.2576 O2 UK

[CarGuy1368]

I agree. The Venice will IS the high end touch device.

Also, I would have guessed English was your first language until you said it wasn't.

Posted via the super amazing BlackBerry Q10

[ayngling]

So, the initial intention was to introduce new OS on an all-touch phone with the well-proven 16:9 screen aspect ratio. Just features, without gimmicks.

That was a very good plan. Unfortunately a 'smart' decision maker has came up with an idea like 'an additional physical keyboard shouldn't harm, just can make it better-seller'. The Slider was born, and following it...

I can't find words to say how big a mistake it was.


P.S. I like physical keyboards.

Posted via CB10/BB PP SE.

I think it is more likely that someone said "why would people buy our slab over other slabs?" and after the "we have the productivity suite", "oh wait, we'll release that to everyone" they figured the most recognizable BlackBerry feature out there is their keyboard.

As long as the phone is perfectly usable as an all touch device, having the keyboard underneath doesn't hurt them, and it being touch makes for a nice gimmick, if nothing else (personally I don't think it is a gimmick, but if you believe it will be then you can think of it that way).

[Mr2KiEu]

I was curious of my previous question so I did a little bit of Google-ing and found the codenames for all the BB10 devices just in case anyone is interested:

Z10- STL100 = LONDON
Z30- STA100 = ARISTO
Z3 - STJ100 = JAKARTA
Leap - STR100 = RIO
Q10 - SQN100 = NEW YORK
Q5 - SQR100 = RAINIER
Passport - SQW100 = WINDERMERE
Classic - SQC100 = CLASSIC

[dusanvn]

I think it is more likely that someone said "why would people buy our slab over other slabs?" and after the "we have the productivity suite", "oh wait, we'll release that to everyone" they figured the most recognizable BlackBerry feature out there is their keyboard.

As long as the phone is perfectly usable as an all touch device, having the keyboard underneath doesn't hurt them, and it being touch makes for a nice gimmick, if nothing else (personally I don't think it is a gimmick, but if you believe it will be then you can think of it that way).

Yes I see it as a gimmick. I dislike it for missing Delete and Insert keys. A few my friends (who are former BlackBerry's users) dislike it for being sliding. In Czech republic, an European country that's on par with Canada in population, people may dislike it for missing the entire number row which is necessary to implement their national keyboard. There could be thousands different reasons to dislike and to call it gimmick.

In my locality, BlackBerry Passport SE is recognized much more positively than the original Passport, and that's just because (thanks to new decoration) the keyboard is getting more clearly visible. If it's supposed to be a nice feature/gimmick, it ought to be clearly visible, not hidden under the screen. Right?

There is another problem. The price tag. Elephone, a Chinese vendor, has just offered an all-touch, premium-looking, smart phone with specs similar to Venice, for $300. A non-slider Venice would be reasonably offered for roughly the same price of the Passport SE, i.e. $600 in my locality. The actual (slider) Venice is rumoured to be much more expensive than that. Yes, it could be THREE times pricier than a comparable rival phone.

In short, the 'someone' at BlackBerry has decided to release a new phone with a very important feature -- the keyboard -- in a very disputable and [almost] invisible implementation, for astronomic price. Smart move, or big mistake? I'd say mistake.

Posted via CB10/BB PP SE.

[Prem WatsApp]

So, the initial intention was to introduce new OS on an all-touch phone with the well-proven 16:9 screen aspect ratio. Just features, without gimmicks.

That was a very good plan. Unfortunately a 'smart' decision maker has came up with an idea like 'an additional physical keyboard shouldn't harm, just can make it better-seller'. The Slider was born, and following it...

I can't find words to say how big a mistake it was.


P.S. I like physical keyboards.

Posted via CB10/BB PP SE.

No mistake. It's a differentiator. It makes it a BlackBerry, unmistakably! :-D



�   Leakers' gonna leak... :-)   �

[ayngling]

Yes I see it as a gimmick. I dislike it for missing Delete and Insert keys.

Sorry, the keyboard is a gimmick because it lacks the Delete and Insert key? Alt+backspace is delete, by the way, I use it a lot When you say "insert key" you mean you want to switch from insert mode to overtype mode? Can you do that with other BlackBerry phones? Otherwise this criticism feels more relevant to BlackBerry as a whole than this particular device that we are discussing.

A few my friends (who are former BlackBerry's users) dislike it for being sliding.

Right, so they want an all touch device like the Z30? Or do they want the screen smaller and the keyboard permanent like the Q10 (my favorite phone ever)? I am pretty sure BlackBerry designed this phone primarily for the all touch crowd, so they could attract people from iOS or Android that evidently are ok with no keyboard, but still wanted to introduce them to a keyboard for longer emails etc.

In Czech republic, an European country that's on par with Canada in population, people may dislike it for missing the entire number row which is necessary to implement their national keyboard.

Don't worry, I am not ignorant of European needs (I am a Norwegian living in Sweden) It still annoys me that the right shift button + other keys cannot be used to type �, � �, � and �, I still need to long-press the keys and click the screen menu to get those.

However, I am not sure I understand. Alt + WERTASDFZXC gives 1-9, and there is a dedicated button for 0, so how would you need a numbers row? I feel pretty sure the Czech republic does not have other numbers than the rest of us

There could be thousands different reasons to dislike and to call it gimmick.

I am not sure I follow your reasoning. What I was trying to say was that this phone was built primarily to attract people that are already on all touch phones. Thus, some might feel that adding a covert touch-sensitive keyboard only for long emails (or typing posts like this ) might be a gimmick to differentiate BlackBerry android phones from Sony, LG, Samsung, etc. Personally I think people will discover how great a physical keyboard is when they start using it for longer typing tasks, but I understand that some people disagree.

How can there be thousands of reasons why the keyboard is a gimmick? Either people will never use the keyboard (and it is a gimmick), or it will be used and appreciated (and it won't be a gimmick). I don't see more than a single reason it can be a gimmick (that people won't use it, but it is there for differentiating in marketing).

In my locality, BlackBerry Passport SE is recognized much more positively than the original Passport, and that's just because (thanks to new decoration) the keyboard is getting more clearly visible.

Great, it sounds good that people like the newer version better, the other way around would not be good.

If it's supposed to be a nice feature/gimmick, it ought to be clearly visible, not hidden under the screen. Right?

Sorry, a gimmick is kinda the opposite of a nice feature, so I am not sure I understand you fully. A gimmick implies it it there just because it sounds cool in marketing, but it never really used.

If a keyboard was a feature a lot of people know they need (like me), putting that feature front and center is the way to go. The Q10 and the Classic does this, and so does the Passport (but the verdict is still out on that keyboard, I never got used to it and went back to my Q10). The problem is that no-one knows if a Classic with Android can sell well... but we do know that all-touch phones with Android can sell (because all Android phones now are all slab phones).

BlackBerry has chosen to give people what they are already used to (an all-touch device), but opted to provide them with the possibility of opening the keyboard if they want to write longer messages. I think this is brilliant, a nice way to introduce people to the keyboard, but only when it really shines (longer typing, I will probably use the virtual keyboard for short messages).

There is another problem. The price tag. Elephone, a Chinese vendor, has just offered an all-touch, premium-looking, smart phone with specs similar to Venice, for $300. A non-slider Venice would be reasonably offered for roughly the same price of the Passport SE, i.e. $600 in my locality. The actual (slider) Venice is rumoured to be much more expensive than that. Yes, it could be THREE times pricier than a comparable rival phone.

Now you are changing the subject, so I'll only say that yes, I agree that the price point will be a potential pitfall. (The rest is a longer discussion, I do not agree with your choice of comparison device.) Personally I hope it will cost exactly the same as a Samsung S6 Edge. No more, no less. It is a flagship device, and should be premium, just not more than an equivalent flagship device.

In short, the 'someone' at BlackBerry has decided to release a new phone with a very important feature -- the keyboard -- in a very disputable and [almost] invisible implementation, for astronomic price. Smart move, or big mistake? I'd say mistake.

I feel that what you mean is that you would like the slider to be a Classic with Android? (I'll ignore the price comment.) I would love for BlackBerry to release an updated Q10 (the perfect formfactor for me) with better specs and camera, I would buy it in a hearbeat. But, I don't think it would sell well, so it would probably be a bad business decision. So, contrary to you I would say a slider like this is a smart move, it has a big potential market.

Let's hope I am right, because if I am then it may lead to BlackBerry doing exactly what we both want, a QWERTY android device.

[dusanvn]

Let's hope I am right, because if I am then it may lead to BlackBerry doing exactly what we both want, a QWERTY android device.

It seems basically, I agree with you. You hope you're right, and I hope I'm wrong. We both want a QWERTY (android or not) device.

But we seem to have different visions about a QWERTY device. You seem to be satisfied with the Venice keyboard, which is basically identical to one in BlackBerry phones of the year 2005 (or earlier, I don't know), probably because you're already familiar with it and/or you find it sufficient. I'm not satisfied with it because it is very different to the standard desktop/laptop computer keyboard (the missing Delete and Insert keys being examples), and we're not living in 2005 any more.

There may be thousands different visions about a keyboard and, unless it is standard, the vast majority will dislike it thereby find it less useful, which makes it a gimmick by definition. (BTW, I didn't invent the term 'nice gimmick'. It was originally yours.)

Here are some of my points that (from your post I think) need more explanation:

-- I use Insert fairly frequently, but rarely to switch between insert and overwrite mode.

-- I use both Delete and Alt+Backspace frequently, which (we all know) have different semantics.

-- The Czech standard keyboard uses the top row (i.e. the row that would otherwise contain numbers) and some other keys (i.e. ones that would otherwise contain punctuations) from the standard physical (ANSI) layout for accented letters. These letters are first-class citizens in their keyboard, and as such they are typed simply without using any modifier key (Shift, Alt etc). I think the situation is similar in Scandinavian standard keyboards.

-- I didn't try to change subject. I've mentioned price tag because I think the excessive price could be likely caused by adding the physical keyboard and the supporting (sliding) mechanism. And because talking about smart move versus mistake in business, price does matter.

[AnimalPak200]

Lol... it's a physical keyboard *for a smartphone*.

I'm sure someone used to working with an IBM POS cash register will chime in that the Venice keyboard is a gimmick because it DOES NOT HAVE THE DOUBLE 00 KEY!

Posted via CB10

[ayngling]

It seems basically, I agree with you. You hope you're right, and I hope I'm wrong. We both want a QWERTY (android or not) device.

Indeed we do

But we seem to have different visions about a QWERTY device. You seem to be satisfied with the Venice keyboard, which is basically identical to one in BlackBerry phones of the year 2005 (or earlier, I don't know), probably because you're already familiar with it and/or you find it sufficient. I'm not satisfied with it because it is very different to the standard desktop/laptop computer keyboard (the missing Delete and Insert keys being examples), and we're not living in 2005 any more.

I think the reason I am confused is because you originally responded to a post where I said some people could see the keyboard as a gimmick, as the slider is mainly an all-touch device. Your comments was, and I quote: "Yes I see it as a gimmick.". I naturally thought you felt adding the keyboard was a gimmick, as that was the topic. But then it seems what you really want is a QWERTY device and not full touch... which really has nothing to do with my post. (Again, my post was about the venice being primarily an all-touch phone, and some people may see the keyboard as a gimmick that will never be used.)

Now it seems your real point is that QWERTY keyboards on BlackBerry has never been good enough, you want a different layout and many more keys. I am sorry, but I do not see the relevance to my post (which was about the keyboard possibly being a gimmick), nor this entire subforum (the slider), since the slider's keyboard clearly has the classic BlackBerry keyboard (plus touch capacitive like the Passport), as seen in the leaked images.

BTW, I didn't invent the term 'nice gimmick'. It was originally yours.

I fail to see what you mean... you said that "If it's supposed to be a nice feature/gimmick, it ought to be clearly visible". I responded with explaining that a feature should be visible, but not a gimmick... How does this comment relate to that?

-- I use Insert fairly frequently, but rarely to switch between insert and overwrite mode.

I thought this was the only thing is does. You press it and it goes into overwrite mode. You press it again and it goes back to insert mode. How do you use it?

-- I use both Delete and Alt+Backspace frequently, which (we all know) have different semantics.

I must have missed that, how are they different? If I hit Alt+Backspace on my BlackBerry I thought it acted exactly like Delete. It doesn't?

-- The Czech standard keyboard uses the top row (i.e. the row that would otherwise contain numbers) and some other keys (i.e. ones that would otherwise contain punctuations) from the standard physical (ANSI) layout for accented letters. These letters are first-class citizens in their keyboard, and as such they are typed simply without using any modifier key (Shift, Alt etc). I think the situation is similar in Scandinavian standard keyboards.

Yes, it is the same on the Scandinavian language keyboards. But, unless you want to put more smaller buttons on the BlackBerry keyboard I do not see what you want to do. I would prefer a nice shortcut, like right-shift + a to write �, for instance (all the alt shortcuts are already taken, and I have never ever used the right shift button).

-- I didn't try to change subject. I've mentioned price tag because I think the excessive price could be likely caused by adding the physical keyboard and the supporting (sliding) mechanism. And because talking about smart move versus mistake in business, price does matter.

Well, again, the topic was that the venice is an all-touch phone, and the keyboard can be seen as a gimmick (although I feel it is not). Your reply even started with "Yes I see it as a gimmick.". How is that not changing the subject? Besides, do you want a phone with no keyboard now?

[dusanvn]

A smartphone is not just a phone. It's a computer.

True, it may not be the best candidate for using as a cash register lol.

But for editing business documents or spreadsheet formulas, it must be legitimate candidate.

Many of us, me including, appreciate and want physical keyboard.

But 'physical keyboard' and 'BlackBerry keyboard' are not one and the same.

I don't think BlackBerry understands that. But deeply inside, I hope I'm wrong.

Posted via CB10/BB PP SE.

[AnimalPak200]

A smartphone is not just a phone. It's a computer.

True, it may not be the best candidate for using as a cash register lol.

But for editing business documents or spreadsheet formulas, it must be legitimate candidate.

Many of us, me including, appreciate and want physical keyboard.

But 'physical keyboard' and 'BlackBerry keyboard' are not one and the same.

I don't think BlackBerry understands that. But deeply inside, I hope I'm wrong.

Posted via CB10/BB PP SE.

I'm fairly certain they do know the limitations of their keyboards,.. but what else could they do? Some sort of fold out keyboard that inflates to full size? You can already get pretty good bluetooth keyboards if you really need such a capability,.. but for more users, most of the time,.. they just want the increase in control and precision afforded by a 'BlackBerry physical' keyboard.

Posted via CB10

[dusanvn]

Well, again, the topic was that the venice is an all-touch phone, and the keyboard can be seen as a gimmick (although I feel it is not). Your reply even started with "Yes I see it as a gimmick.". How is that not changing the subject? Besides, do you want a phone with no keyboard now?

I want a smartphone with a good screen form factor and a rich keyboard, basically a revised Passport. (In case you're interested, I presented my desire in full details in a separate thread named Passport v.2 Concept in Concept/Dream Devices subforum.) The Venice fails to satisfy my desires so I wish it cheaper and without the physical keyboard, which (I think) is also the initial design intention.

Sorry I wish I can find time to answer all your questions. Maybe latter



Posted via CB10/BB PP SE.

[ayngling]

Sorry I wish I can find time to answer all your questions. Maybe latter

That would be nice, I am especially curious about these two :

-- I use Insert fairly frequently, but rarely to switch between insert and overwrite mode.

I thought this was the only thing is does. You press it and it goes into overwrite mode. You press it again and it goes back to insert mode. How do you use it?

-- I use both Delete and Alt+Backspace frequently, which (we all know) have different semantics.

I must have missed that, how are they different? If I hit Alt+Backspace on my BlackBerry I thought it acted exactly like Delete. It doesn't?