1. MikeRotch76's Avatar
    So why does DTEK think that a picture password is LESS secure than a password or PIN? If anything it's a LOT more secure. I can have someone looking directly at my phone while I am using a picture password and they still won't know my "password".
    05-02-16 02:15 PM
  2. Ment's Avatar
    Probably because of enterprise adoption, the effectiveness of PP can vary by the user depending on what focus they use to trigger. BES12 doesn't even support it unless something changed recently. There is some risk of triggering PP by accident as well. Enterprise hates variables in security.

    I would agree PP when done properly is better than PIN.
    05-02-16 02:45 PM
  3. tanzarian's Avatar
    I also do not agree with DTEK regarding picture password.

    -- Sent from my BlackBerry Priv
    05-02-16 02:48 PM
  4. conite's Avatar
    PIN password is more secure because it activates on boot.

    Fortunately with MM update, you can set a PIN to protect the boot sequence AND set a picture password.
    05-02-16 03:16 PM
  5. FF22's Avatar
    I think I asked a similar question a while ago. Seems strange that for better security, dtek wants you to drop picture password.
    MikeRotch76 likes this.
    05-02-16 04:09 PM
  6. MikeRotch76's Avatar
    I think I asked a similar question a while ago. Seems strange that for better security, dtek wants you to drop picture password.
    Yah, I searched the forum titles for DTEK PICTURE PASSWORD and nothing came up with all 3 keywords so I started this thread.
    05-02-16 04:27 PM
  7. anon(9208252)'s Avatar
    How would a twin make this work. Lmao
    05-02-16 04:32 PM
  8. Renwick's Avatar
    So why does DTEK think that a picture password is LESS secure than a password or PIN? If anything it's a LOT more secure. I can have someone looking directly at my phone while I am using a picture password and they still won't know my "password".
    Literally, it's simply math.
    With picture password, there are only two variables (a number and a place on the screen), but with PINs and passwords there are multiple variables.
    So in a way, it's easier to guess a picture password than a four digit PIN.

    In the real world, picture password looks as secure, as PINs and passwords, but so far I unlocked 2 BB10 deviceds locked with picture passwords with a random guess, which might never be the case with a proper password or PIN.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    05-02-16 04:48 PM
  9. laid-back's Avatar
    Dtek must be high but true though it is only two things that you need to get right
    05-02-16 05:29 PM
  10. MikeRotch76's Avatar
    Literally, it's simply math.
    With picture password, there are only two variables (a number and a place on the screen), but with PINs and passwords there are multiple variables.
    So in a way, it's easier to guess a picture password than a four digit PIN.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    I'm going to have to disagree with your math there.

    The possibility for a PIN is finite (10*10*10*10 = 10000

    As for PP, tes there are two variables. One variable has 10 different values (0-9), but it's the second variable that makes the PP a much better option than a PIN. The location of the first variable on the screen can be almost anywhere, I am sure there are a LOT more than 10000 possibilities.

    In the real world, picture password looks as secure, as PINs and passwords, but so far I unlocked 2 BB10 deviceds locked with picture passwords with a random guess, which might never be the case with a proper password or PIN.
    I've had over a dozen of friends and family try and crack my Picture password and over literally hundreds of tries have not cracked it even after I deliberately unlock my phone right in front of their faces. I am not sure how you cracked their PP with a random guess. You must have known their favorite number or something and they must have picked a VERY simple picture. As with ANY password, people can pick really simple passwords, or more complicated ones. I've seen waaaaay too pins that are 0000 or 1111 or something like that. And according to the Internet, among the top 10 passwords are still "password" "qwerty" "123456".
    fanisk likes this.
    05-02-16 05:32 PM
  11. MikeRotch76's Avatar
    Dtek must be high but true though it is only two things that you need to get right
    Ok, so if I ask you, "Can you guess what I am thinking of?" it should be REALLY easy then since it's only ONE thing you need to get right.

    LOL!

    It's not the number of variables but the number of possible values the variable can be.
    FF22 likes this.
    05-02-16 05:32 PM
  12. ajwan's Avatar
    I'm going to have to disagree with your math there.

    The possibility for a PIN is finite (10*10*10*10 = 10000

    As for PP, tes there are two variables. One variable has 10 different values (0-9), but it's the second variable that makes the PP a much better option than a PIN. The location of the first variable on the screen can be almost anywhere, I am sure there are a LOT more than 10000 possibilities.
    I think the second variable is actually much smaller than you think. I say this as a spot can be chosen for the number anywhere on the screen of course. But the actual "trigger area" or margin of error if you will, actually needs to be bigger to accommodate our imprecise fingers! LOL!
    05-02-16 06:00 PM
  13. Ment's Avatar
    I've had over a dozen of friends and family try and crack my Picture password and over literally hundreds of tries have not cracked it even after I deliberately unlock my phone right in front of their faces. I am not sure how you cracked their PP with a random guess. You must have known their favorite number or something and they must have picked a VERY simple picture. As with ANY password, people can pick really simple passwords, or more complicated ones. I've seen waaaaay too pins that are 0000 or 1111 or something like that. And according to the Internet, among the top 10 passwords are still "password" "qwerty" "123456".
    Unfortunately PP doesn't have the enterprise controls that PIN does which can exclude PINs like 1234 or require a pin of larger length than 4 digits. The difference in security of a PP picked with very close start/end with an image with only a few probable locations is much different than PP picked farther away with an image like leaves on a tree or something grid-like. Enterprise hates variables like that.
    05-02-16 06:03 PM
  14. MikeRotch76's Avatar
    I realize that there has to be a margin of error. But in my experience it's about 1/4 of the size of the digit (or less!). So I don't think that the possible number of locations is that much smaller than I am saying

    Posted from my Priv
    05-02-16 06:03 PM
  15. MikeRotch76's Avatar
    Unfortunately PP doesn't have the enterprise controls that PIN does which can exclude PINs like 1234 or require a pin of larger length than 4 digits. The difference in security of a PP picked with very close start/end with an image with only a few probable locations is much different than PP picked farther away with an image like leaves on a tree or something grid-like. Enterprise hates variables like that.
    I guess that is one thing PP lacks that enterprise requires, the "control". Where I am also wrong is that a pin can be longer than 4 digits in some enterprise security software. What PP can do is add more characters or symbols instead of just digits.

    Posted from my Priv
    05-02-16 06:16 PM
  16. laid-back's Avatar
    i like PP, i guess it also depend son what picture to choose and the location of the digit. a picture made of tiles or squares can be less difficult to guess as opposed to a picture of nature or something like that without any specific patterns
    05-02-16 06:41 PM
  17. FF22's Avatar
    Have at it:

    Picture password and DTEK-devilsclub32.jpg
    MikeRotch76 likes this.
    05-02-16 07:09 PM
  18. app_Developer's Avatar
    I think this may not be about how easy/hard it is to guess the password. I think it's more about what information the phone has to store to validate the picture password and then how the actual encryption key(s) is/are unlocked from there.

    I have some questions about this, but it's all speculation until I read more about how picture password is actually implemented. Has BB published any papers on this?
    MikeRotch76 likes this.
    05-02-16 07:17 PM
  19. MikeRotch76's Avatar
    Never looked at it from that angle. That's a very valid point.
    05-02-16 08:46 PM

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