[erose75]

50% of what to support? What products will you threaten not to buy??

Posted via CB10

LOL, you're killing me. Take it somewhere else man. Show me where I threatened not to buy anything. I guess generalizations make me a hater right. Next post please.

[Chuck Finley69]

I don't believe in market getting N will in any way hinder KEYone sales. In fact, abandoning their current devices will likely hurt the KEYone more as people lose confidence in them ever following through or supporting devices.

BlackBerry quit spending $100 to make $25 when Prem took over with Chen. You think anything has changed. If BlackBerry Mobile chooses to pay for update... do you see that happening?

Posted via CB10

[Chuck Finley69]

LOL, you're killing me. Take it somewhere else man. Show me where I threatened not to buy anything. I guess generalizations make me a hater right. Next post please.

I don't mean you as "you". Think of it as "they"... 50% of small amount of support they have left...

BlackBerry doesn't care about the vocal minority..

Posted via CB10

[ray689]

BlackBerry quit spending $100 to make $25 when Prem took over with Chen. You think anything has changed. If BlackBerry Mobile chooses to pay for update... do you see that happening?

Posted via CB10

What? BlackBerry mobile is paying for updates now?
The reality is Prem is still riding the whole security train for this turnaround. They need to keep up with updates if they expect to keep that reputation. As for the costs, one would have to be pretty delusional to not believe they have N running on all their devices already internally. If not then they are worse off then I thought. Remember, N was out long ago and even Chen himself said they were working on it and it will be as secure as as BB10. At the time, the only Android device they had was the Priv.

[Chuck Finley69]

What? BlackBerry mobile is paying for updates now?
The reality is Prem is still riding the whole security train for this turnaround. They need to keep up with updates if they expect to keep that reputation. As for the costs, one would have to be pretty delusional to not believe they have N running on all their devices already internally. If not then they are worse off then I thought. Remember, N was out long ago and even Chen himself said they were working on it and it will be as secure as as BB10. At the time, the only Android device they had was the Priv.

Sure they secured N, for KEYone..... Pushing N out to PRIV and DTEK generates no revenue let alone profits. Pushing out N to older devices only delays people upgrading to KEYone and if they don't because of not getting N, minimal effect. Again, vocal minority..

Posted via CB10

[conite]

What? BlackBerry mobile is paying for updates now?
The reality is Prem is still riding the whole security train for this turnaround. They need to keep up with updates if they expect to keep that reputation. As for the costs, one would have to be pretty delusional to not believe they have N running on all their devices already internally. If not then they are worse off then I thought. Remember, N was out long ago and even Chen himself said they were working on it and it will be as secure as as BB10. At the time, the only Android device they had was the Priv.

Of course the licencees pay for updates. Their package includes the OS, the patches, the updates, and the app suite - for however long they negotiated.

BlackBerry does not need a device to run its code - it's all done on a computer. Device integration is done last - as it was on the KEYᵒⁿᵉ and Aurora. That's the part that has not likely been done yet on the Priv and DTEKs.

[ray689]

Sure they secured N, for KEYone..... Pushing N out to PRIV and DTEK generates no revenue let alone profits. Pushing out N to older devices only delays people upgrading to KEYone and if they don't because of not getting N, minimal effect. Again, vocal minority..

Posted via CB10

They have touted all their devices as the most secure Android devices and if N is now more secure then clearly their reputation is on the line which will generate them a heck of a lot more revenue over the years if maintained then what it would cost to push an update to these devices.
And by your logic, why does any OEM push any update to any device after they release it?

[Chuck Finley69]

They have touted all their devices as the most secure Android devices and if N is now more secure then clearly their reputation is on the line which will generate them a heck of a lot more revenue over the years if maintained then what it would cost to push an update to these devices.
And by your logic, why does any OEM push any update to any device after they release it?

Why do you think OEM's drag their feet with updates? Lenovo bought Motorola from Google. Has either company made sure their customers are getting latest OS upgrades?

BlackBerry touted most secure when they were still in the hardware business. Now they can help BlackBerry Mobile claim they have that with KEYone. They can point to all the old devices as last generation models and recommend upgrade if latest security desired with new manufacturer.

Posted via CB10

[ray689]

Of course the licencees pay for updates. Their package includes the OS, the patches, the updates, and the app suite - for however long they negotiated.

Package as in what? How do you even know they paid BlackBerry anything to licence the name besides a small fee on device sales? It's not like OEMs were falling over each other to licence the brand. And had their been some major payment made by TCL then that likely would have been disclosed and reflected in the last earnings report (similar to the EMTEK deal). So rather then make assumptions, I will go with that which likely means the licence "payment" is simply a small percentage on device sales. Highly doubtful there was some upfront licencing package that TCL spent millions on or anything.

[conite]

Package as in what? How do you even know they paid BlackBerry anything to licence the name besides a small fee on device sales? It's not like OEM we falling over each other to licence the brand. And had their been some major payment made by TCL then that likely would have been disclosed and reflected in the last earnings report (similar to the EMTEK deal). So rather then make assumptions, I will go with that which likely means the licence "payment" is simply a small percentage on device sales. Highly doubtful there was some upfront licencing package that TCL spent millions on or anything.

The "package" as I described above, and the brand are being obtained for a fee. How they actually choose to breakdown the payments is just part of the negotiation.

[ray689]

The "package" as I described above, and the brand are being obtained for a fee. How they actually choose to breakdown the payments is just part of the negotiation.

Where did you get that information?

[Chuck Finley69]

Package as in what? How do you even know they paid BlackBerry anything to licence the name besides a small fee on device sales? It's not like OEMs were falling over each other to licence the brand. And had their been some major payment made by TCL then that likely would have been disclosed and reflected in the last earnings report (similar to the EMTEK deal). So rather then make assumptions, I will go with that which likely means the licence "payment" is simply a small percentage on device sales. Highly doubtful there was some upfront licencing package that TCL spent millions on or anything.

You're supporting my case for not spending resources based on "small percentage on device sales". BlackBerry Original isn't going to spend $100 to make $25 let alone send $100 to make BlackBerry Mobile $25 to pay $5 in licensing back to BlackBerry Original.

Posted via CB10

[conite]

Where did you get that information?

This is how licencing works.

[ray689]

You're supporting my case for not spending resources based on "small percentage on device sales". BlackBerry Original isn't going to spend $100 to make $25 let alone send $100 to make BlackBerry Mobile $25 to then pay $5 in licensing.

Posted via CB10

So you are saying licencee devices won't get updated either?

[ray689]

This is how licencing works.

I know how it works typically and the last time they licenced something they had to disclose the payment it as they are a public company. Now tell me where in their earnings do they show a payment from TCL to licence the brand? In fact, they don't even refer to it.

[Chuck Finley69]

So you are saying licencee devices won't get updated either?

I'm saying BlackBerry Mobile will pay BlackBerry Original for that per device sold that BlackBerry Mobile wants updated. As Conite stated in a similar fashion, that's negotiated as part of licensing deal at initial point or later with add-on deal.

Posted via CB10

[conite]

I know how it works and the last time they licenced something they had to disclose the payment it as they are a public company. Now tell me where in their earnings do they show a payment from TCL to licence the brand? In fact, they don't even refer to it.

The terms are negotiated as any contract is. How much is upfront and how much is per unit sales is between them.

[Chuck Finley69]

I know how it works typically and the last time they licenced something they had to disclose the payment it as they are a public company. Now tell me where in their earnings do they show a payment from TCL to licence the brand? In fact, they don't even refer to it.

They don't have to break down the revenue unless they choose to. Just like they never broke down their device sales.

Posted via CB10

[ray689]

I'm saying BlackBerry Mobile will pay BlackBerry Original for that per device sold that BlackBerry Mobile wants updated. As Conite stated in a similar fashion, that's negotiated as part of licensing deal at initial point or later with add-on deal.

Posted via CB10

They won't spend a 100 to make 25 but they will spend a 100 to make 5. By the way, not sure where you are getting your numbers for cost to update and return. Because no OEM would ever update anything if it costs 100 and return 25.

[ray689]

They don't have to break down the revenue unless they choose to. Just like they never broke down their device sales.

Posted via CB10

But it would show up somewhere. Where did you see an anomaly that could be attributed to licence fees? It sure wasn't in their device business as that went down again.

[Chuck Finley69]

They won't spend a 100 to make 25 but they will spend a 100 to make 5. By the way, not sure where you are getting your numbers for cost to update and return. Because no OEM would ever update anything if it costs 100 and return 25.

Pretty sure we're all familiar with BB10 and everybody whining on here for 10.3.3...

Posted via CB10

[Chuck Finley69]

But it would show up somewhere. Where did you see an anomaly that could be attributed to licence fees? It sure wasn't in their device business as that went down again.

Who knows? Maybe it's too little to notice.. maybe it's not paid until devices are sold. Publicly traded does not mean that companies have to share important trade secrets. That's big reason for companies to buy secure devices, right? ;-)

Posted via CB10

[ray689]

Who knows? Maybe it's too little to notice.. maybe it's not paid until devices are sold. Publicly traded does not mean that companies have to share important trade secrets. That's big reason for companies to buy secure devices, right? ;-)

Posted via CB10

Disclosing revenue (or potential revenue) is not a trade secret.

[conite]

But it would show up somewhere. Where did you see an anomaly that could be attributed to licence fees? It sure wasn't in their device business as that went down again.

Year end statements. Two entries - software and services, and hardware.

[Chuck Finley69]

Disclosing revenue (or potential revenue) is not a trade secret.

But they're not required to get deep in the details and explain where the potential or actual best profits come from.

Posted via CB10