[spencerdl]

Although perhaps the title of the OP's post might not reflect the corporate nature of his problem and has hence made a few 'die on the bridge' boys throw their cardigans in the air I do feel his pain somewhat.

I also manage our internal BB phones and tablets. I also championed the Playbook on release but the two of us in our office who have one are uninspired by it. Yeah it does stuff 'kind of' but what RIM needed was this scenario:

Man at business lunch sees other man with tablet..... "hey how do you find the Playbook?"

The answer should be the same as we used to say about our handsets: "I can't imagine how I ever lived without it. I pretty much run my day on it. What I love most is that it simply works leaving me to concentrate on getting stuff done. What's even more impressive is that when I leave work I can keep in touch with the kids on business trips and even stream my music from Spotify and play scrabble with them. In the car I slap it in a cradle and it navigates me with turn by turn navigation. I can choose from a wealth of providers for that in App world. I've ditched all my other devices, sold my i-pod, my Tom Tom and it's me and my BB handset/tablet combo travelling carry on all the way for me!! Check in at Heathrow has never been easier".......


The answer is: "hmmm, well it's a great concept but it doesn't really inspire confidence and I also have to travel with loads of other devices if I want to do what I want outside work and.......etc,etc

Therein lies RIM's challenge. Make me and the original OP, as the guys making the choices, stand up and declare with confidence "you can not live without this device as a businessman". We used to do it with our handsets......(whole other thread there too....)

I'm am a BlackBerry "fanman", but I totally agree with jimbo. It becomes a time when patience starts running out, I'm tired of saying; its coming, it's getting better, it's still growing ect. I want it to work NOW. I understand that "enhancements" take time, but it's taking to long. Don't get me wrong I like my PlayBook and it's come a long way in one year, but most of the features should have been there at release and not being part of updates during the past year. I use the PlayBook for personal use and I personally couldn't imagine using it for business. IMO ....I don't think any tablet in the present could replace a laptop completely, hence the PlayBook's form factor makes it a little easier to travel with both.
It's not a contest between manufacturers for me, I purchase what best suits my needs and wants.....and what makes me HAPPY......NO device is PERFECT

[jimbo_hippo]

Regarding the Apple IOS comparison, their OS has come on leaps and bounds in the last 12 months to catch up where BB platforms had the edge for more 'mature' users. Their spell-checker now doesn't make you want to murder anyone and although i-cloud isn't perfect it kind of works (after 6pm my i-pod gets hammered in my hands and the PB stays in my bag) so if security and mail issues were addressed by Apple what would RIM have to come back with? Is RIM's email and security infrastructure so far ahead they will never be challenged? At the moment a safe device with bridge functionality seems to be the main defence to stick with Playbook. But what's the point of a secure device with leading hardware if it doesn't do what you want day to day?

I'm happy to be set straight on this (with grown up replies) because I'm not knowledgeable enough to argue how easy that would be for Apple to achieve. But if they did achieve it it there would surely be little little reason to hang on?

[Sith_Apprentice]

Regarding the Apple IOS comparison, their OS has come on leaps and bounds in the last 12 months to catch up where BB platforms had the edge for more 'mature' users. Their spell-checker now doesn't make you want to murder anyone and although i-cloud isn't perfect it kind of works (after 6pm my i-pod gets hammered in my hands and the PB stays in my bag) so if security and mail issues were addressed by Apple what would RIM have to come back with? Is RIM's email and security infrastructure so far ahead they will never be challenged? At the moment a safe device with bridge functionality seems to be the main defence to stick with Playbook. But what's the point of a secure device with leading hardware if it doesn't do what you want day to day?

I'm happy to be set straight on this (with grown up replies) because I'm not knowledgeable enough to argue how easy that would be for Apple to achieve. But if they did achieve it it there would surely be little little reason to hang on?

Apple and RIM have taken very different approaches on this. Apple is all about user experience, and to their credit they are doing VERY well with that. RIM prides themselves on security first, and have built their entire platform with end to end security, thus their success in the business world and why they are lagging behind in the consumer world.

RIM has people working with NSA and DoD on security aspects and cater their devices/services to these segments. Apple has flat out refused to make the changes that DoD/NSA want them to make because (obviously) it would compromise user experience.

Government is a very small segment to Apple, their consumer market presence dwarfs it. They don't need government contracts. RIM on the other hand thrives in these segments, but its over all a MUCH smaller market.

[spencerdl]

At this stage of the Technical world, I'M thinking it comes down to user preference, most consumers pretty much know what they want in a device. Unfortunately RIM is not providing the tech that most people want. Let's hope that changes in the near future. Apps, apps, apps, is what people want, even if they don't use any of them, they want them there just in case...that's the vibe I get just from talking to people in general about devices.

[Muttypint]

I honestly thought this would be a positive post. I personally find pants useful, in fact I never leave home without them. The same goes with the PlayBook actually.

Yes you are right, I'm using docs2go on my playbook and works just fine, so to me it's just like my pants I take it with me wherever I go, the only thing is that at night I also use my play book so.....

[wuulfy]

you could just buy laptops....

[look_alive]

Patently and completely false. A reason trend micro study shows it is not even CLOSE in security to BlackBerry. A fully patched and updated iPhone/iPad can be hacked in less than 6 minutes using commercially available tools. The Department of Defense does not approve iOS use either, and only does so for testing purposes (not official deployment) when it is layered with GOOD mobile security and locked down further. The C-level execs want the device that is why it is there, NOT because of security. Next time try using facts in your argument, it will make it far more persuasive.

"PATENTLY AND COMPLETELY FALSE." Pot, meet Kettle. How about YOU do some research:

The DOD's recent approval to allow the deployment of Apple iOS devices represents a quantum change in how mobility solutions are embraced by our military.
DOD Gets New Weapon For Securing iPhones - Government - Mobile & Wireless - Informationweek

US GSA Now Procures iOS, Android Alongside BlackBerry - Feb 14, 2012
US GSA now procures iOS, Android alongside BlackBerry | Electronista

Federal Government Loosens Its Grip on BlackBerry - Washington Post, May 2011
Federal government loosens its grip on the BlackBerry - The Washington Post

The flashy consumer products that have been adopted in the corporate workforce — upending BlackBerrys for iPhones, Microsoft Outlook for Gmail, and lately laptops for iPads — are now invading the federal government. The State Department. The Army. The Department of Veterans Affairs. NASA.

92% Of Fortune 500 Companies Using or Testing iPad - October 2011
92% of the Fortune 500 companies are testing or deploying iPad - The Next Web

Research In Motion is Doomed: 93% of Fortune 500 Using iPhone Yahoo Finance, Oct 2011
Research in Motion is Doomed: 93% of Fortune 500 Testing iPhone - Yahoo! Finance

[whoppo]

It's unfortunate that the OP has experienced problems with his attempt to validate the PlayBook as a viable tool for his company. I wish him and his company the very best of luck with whatever solution they choose to deploy.

I'm happy to report (to those who G.A.S.) that my experience integrating the PlayBook into my corporate life has been pretty good. We support multiple platforms via BES and ActveSync, so the iFans and 'droiders are happy and productive and the 'Berry users feel fulfilled as well. My Torch 9810 happily and securely chats with the BES all day long and with 7.1's mobile hotspot, keeps my 64G PB well connected when I'm away from WiFi. Connecting the PB to the corporate AS server invoked the "Balance" feature, providing a reliable, feature rich email and calander experience with the security of local encryption, password policy enforcement and remote wipe capability that protects my corporate data and leaves the "personal" part of the PB alone.

Yes, there's still a LOT room for improvement with the PB, but so far it's doing quite well... and my iFriends and Droid pals are constantly complimenting the PB's construction quality, form factor and functionality... and yes, some of them have become PB owners as well.

[joski]

"PATENTLY AND COMPLETELY FALSE." Pot, meet Kettle. How about YOU do some research:

The DOD's recent approval to allow the deployment of Apple iOS devices represents a quantum change in how mobility solutions are embraced by our military.
DOD Gets New Weapon For Securing iPhones - Government - Mobile & Wireless - Informationweek

US GSA Now Procures iOS, Android Alongside BlackBerry - Feb 14, 2012
US GSA now procures iOS, Android alongside BlackBerry | Electronista

Federal Government Loosens Its Grip on BlackBerry - Washington Post, May 2011
Federal government loosens its grip on the BlackBerry - The Washington Post

The flashy consumer products that have been adopted in the corporate workforce — upending BlackBerrys for iPhones, Microsoft Outlook for Gmail, and lately laptops for iPads — are now invading the federal government. The State Department. The Army. The Department of Veterans Affairs. NASA.

92% Of Fortune 500 Companies Using or Testing iPad - October 2011
92% of the Fortune 500 companies are testing or deploying iPad - The Next Web

Research In Motion is Doomed: 93% of Fortune 500 Using iPhone Yahoo Finance, Oct 2011
Research in Motion is Doomed: 93% of Fortune 500 Testing iPhone - Yahoo! Finance

So, apparently you take "news articles" as factual information. Poor lil fella!

[Sith_Apprentice]

"PATENTLY AND COMPLETELY FALSE." Pot, meet Kettle. How about YOU do some research:

The DOD's recent approval to allow the deployment of Apple iOS devices represents a quantum change in how mobility solutions are embraced by our military.
DOD Gets New Weapon For Securing iPhones - Government - Mobile & Wireless - Informationweek

US GSA Now Procures iOS, Android Alongside BlackBerry - Feb 14, 2012
US GSA now procures iOS, Android alongside BlackBerry | Electronista

Federal Government Loosens Its Grip on BlackBerry - Washington Post, May 2011
Federal government loosens its grip on the BlackBerry - The Washington Post

The flashy consumer products that have been adopted in the corporate workforce — upending BlackBerrys for iPhones, Microsoft Outlook for Gmail, and lately laptops for iPads — are now invading the federal government. The State Department. The Army. The Department of Veterans Affairs. NASA.

92% Of Fortune 500 Companies Using or Testing iPad - October 2011
92% of the Fortune 500 companies are testing or deploying iPad - The Next Web

Research In Motion is Doomed: 93% of Fortune 500 Using iPhone Yahoo Finance, Oct 2011
Research in Motion is Doomed: 93% of Fortune 500 Testing iPhone - Yahoo! Finance

If you have a DoD CAC please go to the DISA PKI protected site and actually READ the STIG. IF you dont know what those are then I cannot help you. The Mobile Device working group of DoD have also indicated that iOS is "un-secureable" at this time. News articles not withstanding, actual knowledge of the situation paints a far different picture. Android will come to DoD long before iOS has any real approval. (In fact one version of Android on a single device was approved for general use, but the device has since been discontinued).

Pilot programs were listed in my post, and the Army is one of the Agencies performing this. Air force is another, specifically with iPads. For the most part, these devices are being used as document readers, and not exactly an integrated part of the network.

I am well familiar with SteelCloud and chat frequently with their CEO. I also manage a pair of Good servers with a handful of test users. Good Mobile holds a very small percentage of installs in DoD, and many of those are legacy installs from Windows Mobile days that are being upgraded.

[joski]

If you have a DoD CAC please go to the DISA PKI protected site and actually READ the STIG. IF you dont know what those are then I cannot help you. The Mobile Device working group of DoD have also indicated that iOS is "un-secureable" at this time. News articles not withstanding, actual knowledge of the situation paints a far different picture. Android will come to DoD long before iOS has any real approval. (In fact one version of Android on a single device was approved for general use, but the device has since been discontinued).

Pilot programs were listed in my post, and the Army is one of the Agencies performing this. Air force is another, specifically with iPads. For the most part, these devices are being used as document readers, and not exactly an integrated part of the network.

I am well familiar with SteelCloud and chat frequently with their CEO. I also manage a pair of Good servers with a handful of test users. Good Mobile holds a very small percentage of installs in DoD, and many of those are legacy installs from Windows Mobile days that are being upgraded.

Reading this interests me 10x more than reading any article every published - especially as far as technology is concerned, so thanks for the read!

However, I think all the pot/kettle talk was just because the guy wanted to have a tea with you!

[Sith_Apprentice]

Reading this interests me 10x more than reading any article every published - especially as far as technology is concerned, so thanks for the read!

However, I think all the pot/kettle talk was just because the guy wanted to have a tea with you!

A good fresh green tea is fantastic and I would definitely enjoy some.

[meske]

It's funny. At the end of the day, any article linked or referenced in this thread related to Apple security relies on a third party tool to make it happen. And for those that have tried Good (for example), it's a craptastic experience on the iPhone.

Sure, Apple and Android products are not being used in "92%" or fortune 500's... great. Any good company tests and adopts new technology and devices. It doesn't mean they are being used widespread, or in mission-critical areas. I would theorize that Blackberries are still in use at 100% of those same fortune 500's... Does that mean that RIM is winning?

To the OP, I understand the frustration with the PB. I too would like to see it succeed, and I'm sure in time it will take it's place. We need more than one OS and Tablet that's worth something in the market place. But tabs will not replace the desktop in the near future (unless maybe the Win8 tabs... that could make things interesting).

[Sith_Apprentice]

It's funny. At the end of the day, any article linked or referenced in this thread related to Apple security relies on a third party tool to make it happen. And for those that have tried Good (for example), it's a craptastic experience on the iPhone.

Sure, Apple and Android products are not being used in "92%" or fortune 500's... great. Any good company tests and adopts new technology and devices. It doesn't mean they are being used widespread, or in mission-critical areas. I would theorize that Blackberries are still in use at 100% of those same fortune 500's... Does that mean that RIM is winning?

To the OP, I understand the frustration with the PB. I too would like to see it succeed, and I'm sure in time it will take it's place. We need more than one OS and Tablet that's worth something in the market place. But tabs will not replace the desktop in the near future (unless maybe the Win8 tabs... that could make things interesting).

Unfortunately this is persistent across all the devices they support. Fixmo is coming out with an MDM solution that should put GOOD away. Its as/more secure, much faster, better UI, and allows for more to be done by the end user in the secure container. Overall its a better solution and goes toe to toe with RIM's Mobile Fusion. It will be very interesting on that front.

[padamssm]

Regarding Docs to Go, there was a bug that it wouldn't open files with a comma (and maybe other special characters) in the file name. That looks to be fixed in this new maintenance release. Could that have contributed to your low success rate with opening docs?

[TheScionicMan]

Still wondering how those Apple products are going to get email without EAS... I'm sure it will be magical and it will "just work"...

[narci]

Still wondering how those Apple products are going to get email without EAS... I'm sure it will be magical and it will "just work"...

I know of a company that just hired a new president. He wanted to use an iPhone, iPad and Mac instead of BB and PC. It's a relatively information sensative company for the country.

The guy doesn't care about security. He rather have his emails sent to his iPhone via a forward to a gmail account to have access to his corporate emails on the iPhone.

[Sith_Apprentice]

In any company, C level execs hold all the power. In an ideal world the IAM/IAO would have the ability to over rule these requests, but we all know that generally doesnt happen. People never want to upset the top execs.

[TheScionicMan]

Sorry, I'm just basing my posts in this thread on the points that the OP put forth...

[look_alive]

If you have a DoD CAC please go to the DISA PKI protected site and actually READ the STIG. IF you dont know what those are then I cannot help you. The Mobile Device working group of DoD have also indicated that iOS is "un-secureable" at this time. News articles not withstanding, actual knowledge of the situation paints a far different picture. Android will come to DoD long before iOS has any real approval. (In fact one version of Android on a single device was approved for general use, but the device has since been discontinued).

Pilot programs were listed in my post, and the Army is one of the Agencies performing this. Air force is another, specifically with iPads. For the most part, these devices are being used as document readers, and not exactly an integrated part of the network.

I am well familiar with SteelCloud and chat frequently with their CEO. I also manage a pair of Good servers with a handful of test users. Good Mobile holds a very small percentage of installs in DoD, and many of those are legacy installs from Windows Mobile days that are being upgraded.

Since Brian Hajost, the CEO of SteelCloud is your buddy, why don't you ask him why he said this this next time you "chat" with him:

"The DoD's recent approval to allow the deployment of Apple iOS devices represents a quantum change in how mobility solutions are embraced by our military," said Brian Hajost, President, and CEO of SteelCloud. "Our timely announcement gives the military a powerful option to quickly embrace Apple mobility on the DoD network. With the only securely configured 'out of the box' STIG and security compliant platform for Good and Apple iOS, SteelCloud is ready to help our military take mobility to the next level."

----------------------------------

Not trying to be hard headed here, or a troll. Honestly. But there are discrepancies that are glaring to me.

Another of the companies you quoted above, Good Technology, also stated the following almost a year ago:

"Prior to the release of Good for Government for Apple iOS4, Federal and DoD employees had limited device options in the workplace based on stringent requirements for S/MIME and Common Access Card (CAC) reader integration," said John Herrema, senior vice president of corporate strategy at Good Technology. "Now, with Good for Government, these employees can use Apple's most popular devices like the iPad 2 and the iPhone 4 in the workplace, and rest easy knowing sensitive government data is protected and secure."
Current Press Releases

So, I'm very curious why your CEO buddy at SteelCloud, Reuters, The Associated Press, Newsweek, Information Weekly, Forbes, The Wall Street Journal, and even RIM THEMSELVES are saying that iOS 4 and 5 ARE CURRENTLY BEING USED IN THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE and other Government agencies. Is it just one gigantic lie and conspiracy?

YES, iOS requires a third-party mobile security suite to bring the OS to "Department of Defense-grade security." The question is, SO WHAT? BLACKBERRY DOES,TOO! (That's what BES does!) The flood of iOS in Enterprise and Government is happening right now as we speak, whether you want to believe it or not. You know who DOES believe it? RIM.

I'm not trying to argue with you for no reason. I'm just pointing out what seems to be stated as fact by many highly-trusted sources, INCLUDING RIM THEMSELVES!

RIM created Mobile Fusion as a last-ditch effort to create a revenue stream by harnessing the security features required to satisfy all the iOS and Android devices that are flooding enterprise and government.

RIM saw the writing on the wall long ago, and decided to provide their own third-party mobile device security suite to compete against the flood of lost marketshare in the Enterprise and Government sectors, which are the VERY ONES you seem to claim are not using iOS. Odd, don't you think?

[jabwylie]

All,

Great debate started by me being a bit fed up after OS update that d2g was still not happy about opening files from bridge, but ok from file manager, and that the 'pretty' new calendar application and email application still wouldn't link up via bridge ( how hard can this be?).
As for the 'ok smart arse, how are you going to get your emails on an ipad' , firstly I have my lovely BB, and then there's VPN I guess.
My company exclusively use Salesforce.com as a CRM tool, there's a fantastic application on the BB, but nothing on the PlayBook, which seems crazy, yet the ipad has Salesforce apps a plenty. How have BB for full functionality from the handset, and bugger all from the BUSINESS tablet?

A post way back summed up my thoughts EXACTLY, and I will paraphrase here.

I have been a huge champion of the PB and desperately want to tell my business it's changed my working life, trouble is it hasn't, but with a teeny bit of effort it could.

So here's hoping RIM listen, and sort it out , to be honest the only thing in its favour at the moment is its dirt cheap.

[chrispipe]

The fact that there is no salesforce app on playbook isn't RIM/Playbook's problem... Contact the developers of that application... Another case of "the dog shat on the floor, better punish the cat."

For everyone else who is pissy that their favorite/business apps aren't available for the Playbook: CONTACT WHOEVER MAKES THE APPLICATION - ODDS ARE IT IS NOT RESEARCH IN MOTION AND THEY CAN NOT MAGICALLY CREATE APPS AND PUBLISH THEM USING STOLEN CODE.

Sorry for the caps, but this horse has been beaten to death and people still don't get it. I'm sure you know how to read, so put that skill to work before you post these "wtf my apps aren't on pb" threads/comments. Please. For the love of god, use the search button and a little common sense.

[twdawson]

I looked at what apps where available before i bought the PB, so i knew what was and was not available so was happy at the time to put down the cash for the Playbook, but OS updates have screwed some of those apps up and dont work anymore.
Would love to be able to go back to 1.0.8 when everything was just working nice.

[wuulfy]

apple is ladies panties...

[Sith_Apprentice]

Since Brian Hajost, the CEO of SteelCloud is your buddy, why don't you ask him why he said this this next time you "chat" with him:

"The DoD's recent approval to allow the deployment of Apple iOS devices represents a quantum change in how mobility solutions are embraced by our military," said Brian Hajost, President, and CEO of SteelCloud. "Our timely announcement gives the military a powerful option to quickly embrace Apple mobility on the DoD network. With the only securely configured 'out of the box' STIG and security compliant platform for Good and Apple iOS, SteelCloud is ready to help our military take mobility to the next level."

----------------------------------

Not trying to be hard headed here, or a troll. Honestly. But there are discrepancies that are glaring to me.

Another of the companies you quoted above, Good Technology, also stated the following almost a year ago:

"Prior to the release of Good for Government for Apple iOS4, Federal and DoD employees had limited device options in the workplace based on stringent requirements for S/MIME and Common Access Card (CAC) reader integration," said John Herrema, senior vice president of corporate strategy at Good Technology. "Now, with Good for Government, these employees can use Apple's most popular devices like the iPad 2 and the iPhone 4 in the workplace, and rest easy knowing sensitive government data is protected and secure."
Current Press Releases

So, I'm very curious why your CEO buddy at SteelCloud, Reuters, The Associated Press, Newsweek, Information Weekly, Forbes, The Wall Street Journal, and even RIM THEMSELVES are saying that iOS 4 and 5 ARE CURRENTLY BEING USED IN THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE and other Government agencies. Is it just one gigantic lie and conspiracy?

YES, iOS requires a third-party mobile security suite to bring the OS to "Department of Defense-grade security." The question is, SO WHAT? BLACKBERRY DOES,TOO! (That's what BES does!) The flood of iOS in Enterprise and Government is happening right now as we speak, whether you want to believe it or not. You know who DOES believe it? RIM.

I'm not trying to argue with you for no reason. I'm just pointing out what seems to be stated as fact by many highly-trusted sources, INCLUDING RIM THEMSELVES!

RIM created Mobile Fusion as a last-ditch effort to create a revenue stream by harnessing the security features required to satisfy all the iOS and Android devices that are flooding enterprise and government.

RIM saw the writing on the wall long ago, and decided to provide their own third-party mobile device security suite to compete against the flood of lost marketshare in the Enterprise and Government sectors, which are the VERY ONES you seem to claim are not using iOS. Odd, don't you think?

Yes companies make press releases. The iOS STIG is an interim one for testing only. Steelcloud does offer an integrated solution for iOS and Windows Mobile along with one for BlackBerry. They work with Good and RIM on these "servers in a box".

IOS 4 has an IATT, not an ATO. As I said (again), approval to test only. There are three allowed platforms in the DoD for mobility. Windows Mobile (not WP7), Android, and BlackBerry (BES 5). Good for Government is also allowed as another MDM solution.

Many agencies are taking advantage of the iOS testing and making deployments (large and small). But it is not an outright approval.

There are also some aspects within DoD that will make large scale deployments under the guise of testing, and just leave it "labeled" as a test environment. After all, that's how RIM was first introduced to DoD by the Air Force. For years (literally) BlackBerry devices were testing only. It took that long for a full STIG to come along.

Not seeing you as hard headed, as you are only going on what you have access to. I'm just telling you news reports and press releases aren't everything that's going on.