[CHIP72]

The point is that this is not what is being done. I'm not sure how deeply you've explored what will be involved with windows 8, but if you spend a few days looking into it, you'll find that out. WP7 and windows 8 are also not a good comparison. A lot of the reason for windows 8 is due to the lack of WP7's success and lessons learned from it.

The reason for Windows 8 is that Microsoft is (rightfully, IMO) fearful that mobile OS's, or more specifically Apple's iOS, could eat its lunch AND dinner in say 5 years when mobile OS and conventional computer OS have merged into one OS used on all devices. Microsoft wants to protect its market share for desktop/laptop OS by creating a compelling mobile OS, one that will work particularly well on tablets AND is different than iOS. Period.

Windows 8's creation has nothing to do with Windows 7's "lack of success"; in most people's opinions Windows 7 has been quite successful.

[ody360]

I'm kind of excited for the Windows tablets. I did the windows challenge yesterday, where if your phone beats their phone in a challenge, like searching for a movie time, you win a laptop, but if you 'lose', you win a new windows phone with no contract (I got the HTC titan)

Anyway, while at the ms store, I played with their new tablets, and it feels familiar enough to my pb that igotta say, it really intrigues me. Plus the ability to sync with my pc and my upcoming windows phone has me excited.

Now, if rim comes out with a contest too where they give out free phones if your current phone is slower then I'd be even more ecstatic!

[BlazorBoy]

There is still talk of MS buying some or all of RIM (see the WSJ today). The new Win8 convertible tablet being discussed (a foldout keyboard) sounds VERY interesting to me (anything to keep that Apple away) for I love the PC and hate the Mac. A good BB that tied to such a tab might be a very great combo.

[simu31]

Right, and MS is not an insanely massive company that doesn't have the resources to learn from that either. They're going to go bankrupt. I guess I better uninstall windows on this PC today.

^ that's what I mean by you being off base. No need to get your socks in a bunch. Your "numbers" (gotta love that catch-all argument weapon) mean nothing in light of MS's capability to recover and fight back. A smaller company failing to fight for a place in the market on their first try might be at risk. That doesn't apply here. Your opinion is also obviously based on pretty much zero knowledge of what's being done with win8.

It's one thing to spend some time on the beta, or a week or more learning what win8 will be about, and reading mostly negative write ups (which isn't happening BTW) and then saying it will fail. It's quite another to do none of the above and say "well WP7 failed so this will too kthxbye"

Actually, if you bothered reading what I wrote, rather than interpreting what you THINK I wrote, you'd understand that I never said it would "fail".
I'll try and make it easy for you: it's not an open and shut case that Windows8 on a tablet will succeed. Microsoft definitely have massive potential in the tablet market, but they also have massive potential in the mobile phone market, and so far have fallen (relatively) flat.

I'm not saying they can't or won't do as much as a multi-billion dollar company can to impose themselves, but I'm not convinced that their presence in the tablet market is the death nail for the Playbook.

I'm sorry to disagree with you, but that's my right.

Take care.

Si.

[mud314]

The elephant in the room is not Apple or Google but rather Microsoft. There is a lot of buzz around the Windows 8 tablets coming at the end of the year and it makes me think that RIM should stop competing with Apple and Google's tablets and rather focus on getting their s%&t together before the Windows 8 tablets are released at the end of the year.

The Playbooks strong point is the QNX OS being a different approach to tablets than Android or iOS but Windows 8's Metro is also a very different and intuitive approach. In addition, Microsoft has support that RIM doesn't from companies like Nvidia, Motorola, Nokia and ARM on top of having an expansive distribution base already set with vendors. If that wasn't enough, they're already in bed with app developers and if the Windows phone 7 is any indication (already 70,000+ apps) the tablets will be supped up with all the major apps upon release. Let's just wrap it up with Windows 8 tablets having far more business features (RIM's fall back) and will probably be priced competitive.

The Playbook can stay afloat seemingly until this other major tablet competitor gets in the race. IMHO Rim needs to have these things done before the release of the Windows 8 tablets in Fallish.

1) Release a new tablet/tablets in the summer so they can thwart the Windows 8 hype and not compete with it's release
2) Release a tab that is thinner, faster CPU, more RAM and higher resolution screen with 4g/wifi option. (just being realistic to the upcoming competition)
3) Get all the major apps that are missing in native form on the Playbook (Netflix, Hulu+, Skype, Words With Friends, Instagram, etc, etc.) This is an obvious and over discussed one.
4) Price it VERY competitive so that you can get the consumer thinking, "Well I've heard of Android and iPad but this tablet is $100 cheaper, feels more intuitive and has all the apps I want/need"

If not, my prediction is the Playbook will be drowned by Windows 8 and the Microsoft machine.

I gotta tell you, I was not at all interested in Windows 8, but I started using the Nokia 710 and after using it, I love the OS and Windows 8 of course will be building on that. I think you have some valid points. Microsoft is typically one to never be at the top as soon as something new comes out, but they are good at expanding and making things better. Who know you may be right.

I do hope though RIM is able to produce some great devices. I like variety. I am a geek at heart and will buy something even if it's for a short while of pleasure. As far as I'm concerned I don't want to see any one single company fail, too many people would suffer and then what would I have to spend my money on, that gives me so much pleasure????

[omniusovermind]

The reason for Windows 8 is that Microsoft is (rightfully, IMO) fearful that mobile OS's, or more specifically Apple's iOS, could eat its lunch AND dinner in say 5 years when mobile OS and conventional computer OS have merged into one OS used on all devices. Microsoft wants to protect its market share for desktop/laptop OS by creating a compelling mobile OS, one that will work particularly well on tablets AND is different than iOS. Period.

Windows 8's creation has nothing to do with Windows 7's "lack of success"; in most people's opinions Windows 7 has been quite successful.

I said WP7 not windows 7

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[omniusovermind]

As much as I agree that RIM needs to get in gear (I'm not saying they aren't already, but they need to show us something before other major potential competitors hit the market), I'm not 100% convinced that Windows8 on a tablet will change a huge amount in the tablet market.

If Windows was such a great threat to Apple or Android, then they wouldn't be languishing in 4th place in the US (and not doing too great elsewhere in the world either).

I'll clarify that the Nokia Lumia Windows Phone is a fantastic piece of kit. A friend of mine has one and I've had a chance to play with it. If I was to move away from BB right now (for a phone), I'd definately go for that phone.

But they just haven't made an impact so far in the smartphone market and I don't see the tablet market suddenly having a different attitude.

Si.

But you see, I did take the time to read what you said. It's hardly MY fault that your posts after this one I just quoted here contradict this one. You just said all through this post how windows 8 won't have the ability to compete or be a threat and now you're denying it in your posts after this

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[Pearl9100]

lol, what?

Win95, Win98, WinME, WinXP, Win Vista, Win7

Out those releases only WinME and Win Vista had major issues. WinME was a diaster and was over in a year. Vista however, turned out to be a solid OS with the release of SP2. 95, 98, XP and Win7 have been solid and hugely successful. Now what's this BS about stumbling quite a bit?

Exactly. Vista is not without its problems...but it is a stable/solid os.

Not sure what you are getting at. You dont need to be a network architect in order to arrive at the conclusion that Microsoft tends to stumble quite a bit on new OS's.

My point is: how can you really evaluate an os when you probably are only familiar with less than half of its features? That coupled with you being an outsider makes you lose all credibility in my eyes. This is the same exact scenario when others (especially android and iphone users) start telling me how defunct BBs are when they cannot even fathom the potential that BB's have when they are on BES servers.

[Pearl9100]

Couldn't agree more. It would be irresponsible to count out a company the size and with the resources of Microsoft.

The point I was trying to get across is that it's not (and more than likely will not be) as easy, nor as cut and dry, as simply Microsoft launching a tablet on the market. Their experience to date (with Nokia) in the mobile market has been so far short of stellar, it's not even mildly funny.

As I said before, the product itself is great, but for some reason that hasn't moved things in their favour.

Si.

I totally agree. With Ms's size, they can throw a lot of money at you. They gave me tons of free stuff just so that you are familiar and aware of what MS products have to offer. Anyone would be a fool to count them out just yet.

I gotta tell you, I was not at all interested in Windows 8, but I started using the Nokia 710 and after using it, I love the OS and Windows 8 of course will be building on that. I think you have some valid points. Microsoft is typically one to never be at the top as soon as something new comes out, but they are good at expanding and making things better. Who know you may be right.

I do hope though RIM is able to produce some great devices. I like variety. I am a geek at heart and will buy something even if it's for a short while of pleasure. As far as I'm concerned I don't want to see any one single company fail, too many people would suffer and then what would I have to spend my money on, that gives me so much pleasure????

I am glad you are more aware of what other companies have to offer.

The reason for Windows 8 is that Microsoft is (rightfully, IMO) fearful that mobile OS's, or more specifically Apple's iOS, could eat its lunch AND dinner in say 5 years when mobile OS and conventional computer OS have merged into one OS used on all devices. Microsoft wants to protect its market share for desktop/laptop OS by creating a compelling mobile OS, one that will work particularly well on tablets AND is different than iOS. Period.

Windows 8's creation has nothing to do with Windows 7's "lack of success"; in most people's opinions Windows 7 has been quite successful.

Agreed. I am glad that MS is taking proactive steps to ensure their future. Unlike another fruit company, who is now playing catch up and will face many quarters unprofitable.

[mjs416]

banks aren't people and clearly RIM is far less sensible.....

Less sensible than credit default swaps or risk hedging derivatives? Show me an instance where RIM sells a BB to someone and then bets against that person being able to pay their cell bill - then I'll believe you.

[mjs416]

Exactly. Vista is not without its problems...but it is a stable/solid os.

LOL!

My point is: how can you really evaluate an os when you probably are only familiar with less than half of its features? That coupled with you being an outsider makes you lose all credibility in my eyes. This is the same exact scenario when others (especially android and iphone users) start telling me how defunct BBs are when they cannot even fathom the potential that BB's have when they are on BES servers.

And outsider? WTF are you talking about? Ive developed software for several Windows OS platforms (everything from simple applications to data acquisition and control systems)- built my own PC's and owned at least 1 PC/laptop for every single iteration of windows since 98. Ive dabbled with the NT platform a bit and managed a very small network on Windows 2K servers using login scripts and active directory.

So no - its not the exact same scenario. Try again.

[Pearl9100]

LOL!

And outsider? WTF are you talking about? Ive developed software for several Windows OS platforms (everything from simple applications to data acquisition and control systems)- built my own PC's and owned at least 1 PC/laptop for every single iteration of windows since 98. Ive dabbled with the NT platform a bit and managed a very small network on Windows 2K servers using login scripts and active directory.

So no - its not the exact same scenario. Try again.

I really don't want to get in an argument with you. But IF you are as knowledgeable about MS as you claim to be, then that makes things even worst because you should know better. Although Vista may not be anyone's favorite flavor, it is still stable, especially after SP2.

If you cannot even admit that it is a stable os, then really, there is no point in even discussing with you on this topic because your bias blinds you to the point that any discussion with you on this topic would be moot.

[JamesDax3]

I really don't want to get in an argument with you. But IF you are as knowledgeable about MS as you claim to be, then that makes things even worst because you should know better. Although Vista may not be anyone's favorite flavor, it is still stable, especially after SP2.

If you cannot even admit that it is a stable os, then really, there is no point in even discussing with you on this topic because your bias blinds you to the point that any discussion with you on this topic would be moot.

Truth be told.

[CHIP72]

I said WP7 not windows 7

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Oops, you're right. My bad.

[bpdude]

Personally I think rim should stay the course, slim down, hire some real talent and kick out updates as quickly as possible. They need to get the bb10 phones out there asap. The big mistake is time not product. They need to speed things up, no more excuses.

[Pearl9100]

Personally I think rim should stay the course, slim down, hire some real talent and kick out updates as quickly as possible. They need to get the bb10 phones out there asap. The big mistake is time not product. They need to speed things up, no more excuses.

Lol, that is easier said than done. And staying the course would be the definition of insanity...doing the same thing and expecting different results...They obviously need a new direction and I am glad the new ceo recognizes/acknowledges that.