[chaddeus]

surprised you got so many thanks/likes for this post. No don't be upset, I'm not playing "HostileUser" to you, but I really and honestly don't think all of those in agreement with your assessment are considering one large hole in your theory:

Purely anecdotal on my part but in my own experience, I've never seen PlaybookUser actually listen to AngelUser and end up staying, as you predict would be the case. In fact, the very reason for the existence of HostileUser appears to be because the majority of PlaybookUser threads end up being created by people who have irrevocably decided once and for all to move on to another device, and want to take a few parting shots at it purely to make themselves feel better about their decision, and self-reinforce their decision to dislike Playbooks.

In the end, it is in my opinion, PlaybookUser who should be held to blame at the very least on an equal level to HostileUser. If you have decided you no longer will be using this device, what purpose does it serve anyone here in this community to create a post telling the rest of us that you think we have made an inferior choice to yours, when you have zero intention on doing anything to improve things here? How is that in any sense constructive? The answer is easy. It's not. And hence you get the hostile responses.

What exacerbates the matter even further is those who create those posts not out of ignorance or negativity, but to deliberately inflame others (trolling). I'm not holding those who reply with venom blameless, but I do understand the reason they exist, and unlike what you appear to suggest, I do not hold them as the ones to be blamed for not "ignoring and not replying" as you suggest. I hold them as equally to blame as the "I quit" posters.

Once again, let me make this very clear - posts that do not contain constructive criticism or any desire to improve things, and are nothing more than "I quit and here's why" are useless. Posts that are frustrated about an issue and are asking for help to resolve them are not useless. Your "PlaybookUser" falls into the former category.

My point is not to say they are right or wrong. The point here is that we create a more welcoming environment. If a PlaybookUser decided to vent his anger about how bad the Playbook is, we should just ignore it rather than being hostile and venting our own anger.

Imagine him being attacked by Crackberry forum members when he post certain stuffs that displeases some members, and assuming Playbook improve in the future, and the user decided to give Playbook a try again. Whats the chance of him joining Crackberry.com when he remembers being attacked? I am sure the chance is lower. He might join other forums.

Also, venting our own anger doesn't do much to improve the situation. The best is just to ignore and lets the post bury itself. Nobody needs to be angry.

- Charles

[oldtimeBBaddict]

I believe that there is value in the "[fill in device] sucks" or "I'm quitting [fill in device]. " Just not here. The posters, whether sincere or trolling, should be telling the company that makes said device why they think it sucks or why they're quitting.
The decision makers need to see why people are not happy. Maybe they can address the shortcomings, real or perceived, similar to the sideloading question. Alec Saunders is at least trying to clarify RIMM's position on sideloading.
So, to the posters who feel the need to express their dissatisfaction, feel free. But direct it where it might actually be noticed by someone who can address the problem.

[EricB1968]

Some of these quitters who bought the PlayBook or their parents bought it for them only paid $199 for the tablet instead of $499 and then they start bashing it because it's not living up to what they expected. Next time they should do their homework before purchasing and the others who begged their parents to get it because it's a steal at $300 less then when it was released. It's those who deserve the boot.

[sashlon]

Some of these quitters who bought the PlayBook or their parents bought it for them only paid $199 for the tablet instead of $499 and then they start bashing it because it's not living up to what they expected. Next time they should do their homework before purchasing and the others who begged their parents to get it because it's a steal at $300 less then when it was released. It's those who deserve the boot.

Wow. Thanks for that highly elitist argument. So because you spent more, you're more deserving of respect huh? Interesting.

I spent $322 of my very hard earned money on my PlayBook 64gb. It was a major financial decision for my wife and I to make. I just don't want it to be wasted money, because I CANT Afford another tablet.

I'm happy for you that you live in a world where $322 isn't much money.

[EricB1968]

Wow. Thanks for that highly elitist argument. So because you spent more, you're more deserving of respect huh? Interesting.

I spent $322 of my very hard earned money on my PlayBook 64gb. It was a major financial decision for my wife and I to make. I just don't want it to be wasted money, because I CANT Afford another tablet.

I'm happy for you that you live in a world where $322 isn't much money.

I only paid $189 for my 16gb over BlackFriday. All I cared about was a tablet with flash and got what I wanted. I couldn't be happier thank you very much.

[bohbohboh]

sorry to burst your bubble (and many others out there). that's not the way the world works, or that's not the way humans work in general.

there are a lot more factors in play when someone makes a purchasing decision than "doing one's homework". it's hardly a sufficient reason for you to be hostile to someone who expresses disappointment in his purchase. in fact, i determine anyone who says that phrase as more trollish than someone who is complaining that his pb doesn't have skype.

Also, "homework" is such a broad definition. if i google playbook and is directed to rim's site, and i see the skype logo on the pb, have i done my homework?

i fully agree with the op. just go away if you don't like what you see.

Some of these quitters who bought the PlayBook or their parents bought it for them only paid $199 for the tablet instead of $499 and then they start bashing it because it's not living up to what they expected. Next time they should do their homework before purchasing and the others who begged their parents to get it because it's a steal at $300 less then when it was released. It's those who deserve the boot.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

[sam_b77]

Wow. Thanks for that highly elitist argument. So because you spent more, you're more deserving of respect huh? Interesting.

I spent $322 of my very hard earned money on my PlayBook 64gb. It was a major financial decision for my wife and I to make. I just don't want it to be wasted money, because I CANT Afford another tablet.

I'm happy for you that you live in a world where $322 isn't much money.

Well to be honest all tablets are still in the realm of "wants" rather than "needs". If the price was a major financial decision for you then maybe you should have curtailed your "wants". I can understand "having" to pay for clothes, electricity, gas etc. You can't live without these things. Tablets, trust me you can live without one. Even the magical iPad.

[southlander]

How does me reading a "quitters" post help rim make the playbook better?

I do not think rim is reading the posts or responses.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9850 using Tapatalk

[bodjor]

My point is not to say they are right or wrong. The point here is that we create a more welcoming environment. If a Playbook User decided to vent his anger about how bad the Playbook is, we should just ignore it rather than being hostile and venting our own anger.

This is obvious but I'll say it. Why is there so much "anger" among us Playbook users? Because we love our tablets but we are very frustrated about the lack of the most popular apps and stressed with the uncertainty about the Playbook's future and RIM´s future in general.

No one likes to listen the painful truth, especially when it's about his/her "loving" one and over and over again.

Let's maintain our hopes that the best of the Playbook is yet to come.

[sashlon]

Well to be honest all tablets are still in the realm of "wants" rather than "needs". If the price was a major financial decision for you then maybe you should have curtailed your "wants". I can understand "having" to pay for clothes, electricity, gas etc. You can't live without these things. Tablets, trust me you can live without one. Even the magical iPad.

I never said I needed it.

But it was a major purchase for us. Not something trivial.

[sashlon]

How does me reading a "quitters" post help rim make the playbook better?

I do not think rim is reading the posts or responses.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9850 using Tapatalk

Sadly I think you are correct, RIM are not listening. The evidence of this is their shrinking market share. This is sad because they make excellent hardware.

[addicted44]

The other obvious step people can take is to just not 'feed the trolls'. If it's a thread posted by someone who just wants to knock RIM products and that is glaringly obvious... don't post in it and it will go away.

But again, I think people here need to do a better job separating those troll threads, and what are reasonable discussions. I have seen ridiculous hostility directed towards posters on here for asking perfectly reasonable questions about the Playbook or trying to discuss solutions for a limitation with it. In a lot of those threads, I swear people don't even read the original post. They just assume it's an 'attack thread' and post hostile responses. There is room for the Playbook to improve and room for discussion as to how.

The real solution is stricter moderation. I am usually against much moderation at all, but at turbulent times like these, where some threads/responses are destroying the community, it becomes necessary.

[BBplaybookJS]

Well, of course, my problem is that I don't know any great PlayBook app developers. You know who I bet does? The development team at RIM, the people who should be encouraging the great PlayBook appp developers.

But, that is not the point I, and many others, are trying to make. We are talking about there being no need for hostility for people who have criticisms of the PlayBook, nor should we be declaring war upon all other devices and platforms and those who own them.

And yet it appears that many do, instead of taking the time to hunt down developers from other platforms some could put that energy into finding out who these people are. Most of the apps I have downloaded from Appworld have contact emails in their support section.

[BBplaybookJS]

Sorry, but this is utter nonsense. There is no way anyone can determine ambivalence as you suggested. And even if a poster is truly so, so what. No one died and made anyone moderators or the thought police. This isn't 1930s Russia. Just move on to the next post - we do not have a quota here.

The solution is civility at minimum, helpfulness if you are apt, and avoidance otherwise. If the post is truly nonsense, you keep it afloat by further adding the hate and glib hokum. What a conundrum: perpetuating what you don't like.

You are the final arbitrary of what happens between your ears and what you type, but please, if you don't like a post and can't offer any help to the community, just move on.

Fortunately you don't get to tell others what posts they can and cannot reply to.

[sam_b77]

I never said I needed it.

But it was a major purchase for us. Not something trivial.

True. But sometimes even major purchases turn out to be lemons. Especially something which is new to market. For example a newly launched car. The initial customers are taking a risk buying it. So if one cannot justify it as a trivial purchase, then one should not risk buying something new to the market. Go with the safer and proven product. In this case the iPad is definitely the proven product. Since it was not a trivial purchase for you, you should have bought the iPad. I don't believe in having blind loyalty to a brand or company. If it doesn't work for you, buy something which does. Thats the beauty of having many competing products. But after buying a new to market product one cannot complain about the money spent on it if it turns out to be a lemon.

In short you knew what you were getting into before you bought the PB. If you didn't know what you were getting into, then you did a poor job researching a purchase which for you was a major one.

Its different if someone has $300 lying around to throw away. But in case one doesn't then it is wise to throughly research it and then purchase it.

[sharonjpp]

I think a lot of the people that bought pb,s really wanted ipads or android tablets but couldn't afford them so when rim dropped the price they snapped up the pb thinking they where getting a tablet that could do as much as ipads or android,well it doesn't it's a very good tablet but ipads are better and some pb users will never be happy because its not the tablet they really wanted,as far as the hostility towards users who moan about the pb it is deconstructive all they are looking for is support because if we all complain to rim maybe they'll do something to make the pb competitive,in my honest opinion bb is dead in the water they lost to much ground to the other tablets and phones can you really see bb around in five years?.

[sam_b77]

I think a lot of the people that bought pb,s really wanted ipads or android tablets but couldn't afford them so when rim dropped the price they snapped up the pb thinking they where getting a tablet that could do as much as ipads or android,well it doesn't it's a very good tablet but ipads are better and some pb users will never be happy because its not the tablet they really wanted,as far as the hostility towards users who moan about the pb it is deconstructive all they are looking for is support because if we all complain to rim maybe they'll do something to make the pb competitive,in my honest opinion bb is dead in the water they lost to much ground to the other tablets and phones can you really see bb around in five years?.

Well you have a point here. But again if I really wanted BMW and all I could afford is a Honda and bought one, then it wouldn't be fair for me to say that the Honda doesn't have Heads Up Display, doesn't have 16 air bags etc etc.



As for where RIM would be in 5 yrs, that's still to be seen.

[omniusovermind]

Okay... wow.

Yeah save me some too!

Sent from my Atrix using Tapatalk

[joski]

I think a lot of the people that bought pb,s really wanted ipads or android tablets but couldn't afford them so when rim dropped the price they snapped up the pb thinking they where getting a tablet that could do as much as ipads or android,well it doesn't it's a very good tablet but ipads are better and some pb users will never be happy because its not the tablet they really wanted,as far as the hostility towards users who moan about the pb it is deconstructive all they are looking for is support because if we all complain to rim maybe they'll do something to make the pb competitive,in my honest opinion bb is dead in the water they lost to much ground to the other tablets and phones can you really see bb around in five years?.

That's not your opinion. That whole line of nonsense was fabricated by some Android hipster f-bag who thinks they know the market. These are also the idi0ts who fall victim to BS "marketing" who are nothing but sheep.

The term "dead in the water" gives me chills now and that just drove me ba-nanners

[omniusovermind]

My point is not to say they are right or wrong. The point here is that we create a more welcoming environment. If a PlaybookUser decided to vent his anger about how bad the Playbook is, we should just ignore it rather than being hostile and venting our own anger.

Imagine him being attacked by Crackberry forum members when he post certain stuffs that displeases some members, and assuming Playbook improve in the future, and the user decided to give Playbook a try again. Whats the chance of him joining Crackberry.com when he remembers being attacked? I am sure the chance is lower. He might join other forums.

Also, venting our own anger doesn't do much to improve the situation. The best is just to ignore and lets the post bury itself. Nobody needs to be angry.

- Charles

Fair enough but your solution is still resting on the premise that we must bear the burden of making concessions, rather than the "I quit" posters. I don't feel your solution is the best path to take because it suggests the responder should shoulder more of the blame or responsibility than the initiator.

I apologize for using an extreme analogy, but your social beliefs sound similar to the ones who would see people defending themselves from a robbery get charged for assaulting the perpetrator, who was "startled by his victim and so the fight wasn't really his fault."

At the risk of being too blunt, this entire line of thinking is ... I can't even say it, there's just so much wrongness wrapped around the political correctness segment of western society that I wouldn't know where to begin.

Even your terminology is highly suggestive of a bias against the responder. The "offender" in your example, is simply an innocent "PlaybookUser" rather than the aggressor/initiator/offender. The "defender" or perhaps responder, or reactor(grammar check?) in your example is given the sinister label of "HostileUser". You might as well just change your example to read something like "The evil and sinsiter HostileUser, eater of a thousand worlds, lashed out his poisonous tentacles to inflict pain and suffering unto the poor defenseless innocent PlayBookUser, and the skies opened, and they wept"


You don't happen to work in politics by any chance do you? (j/k )

Sent from my Atrix using Tapatalk

[omniusovermind]

Well you have a point here. But again if I really wanted BMW and all I could afford is a Honda and bought one, then it wouldn't be fair for me to say that the Honda doesn't have Heads Up Display, doesn't have 16 air bags etc etc.



As for where RIM would be in 5 yrs, that's still to be seen.

whoa, WHOA there, easy now! Don't hate on my Honda or we're gonna have words!!!

[sashlon]

True. But sometimes even major purchases turn out to be lemons. Especially something which is new to market. For example a newly launched car. The initial customers are taking a risk buying it. So if one cannot justify it as a trivial purchase, then one should not risk buying something new to the market. Go with the safer and proven product. In this case the iPad is definitely the proven product. Since it was not a trivial purchase for you, you should have bought the iPad. I don't believe in having blind loyalty to a brand or company. If it doesn't work for you, buy something which does. Thats the beauty of having many competing products. But after buying a new to market product one cannot complain about the money spent on it if it turns out to be a lemon.

In short you knew what you were getting into before you bought the PB. If you didn't know what you were getting into, then you did a poor job researching a purchase which for you was a major one.

Its different if someone has $300 lying around to throw away. But in case one doesn't then it is wise to throughly research it and then purchase it.

I love that you are arrogant enough to make so many assumptions about me.

I will not buy iOS products. I have many issues with the way apple does business and I dislike the limitations that they impose upo their devices.

I researched tablets for 4 months. I read countless reviews. I considered the Sony tablet, but decided it was too big. The Samsung 7.0 tabs are a bit crude IMO. I was very intrigued by the UI of the Playbook and I have a high opinion of BlackBerry as hardware builders. I knew that app content was limited. I also knew I could sideload Android apps. I also (perhaps wrongly) believed that a company such as RIM would work very hard to fill the app void.

From a UI standpoint I think the playbook is superior to the IPad. I love the device. I use it a lot. But a device of its capabilities is screaming for apps. RIM has failed to support it sufficiently. I find sideloading a bit hit and miss. Some apps are great, some buggy. I want Native apps. I also want choice. I bought the playbook because it offered choice. Now the future of sideloading is uncertain. I am left very disappointed by events.

[barskin]

And yet it appears that many do, instead of taking the time to hunt down developers from other platforms some could put that energy into finding out who these people are. Most of the apps I have downloaded from Appworld have contact emails in their support section.

"instead of taking the time to hunt down developers from other platforms some could put that energy into finding out who these people [BB developers?] are..." Huh? I am not even sure what you are saying to me. I have never "hunted down" developers from any platform. I don't want to. It is absolutely not my job to do so. I expect the people who own and run the companies that build the devices that I, the customer, the consumer, purchase to do that for me.

It would make for great advertising though, wouldn't it?

The New SamcerBerry Iconia TabBook A500, Loaded with Functionality! All you have to do is hunt down the developers and beg them to come up with some great apps!

[deanrw1]

I am no "True Believer" or "Believer".

I use and enjoy my playbook. I use it for what it offers me and I do find entertainment with it. I have a Skype and a Netflix account, but hardly ever use them and could care less if they ever made it on to the playbook.

I do not want it to do everything. I am still primarily a computer user. In my opinion a tablet is meant to offer a convenient workaround by being a fun alternative device at certain times. The playbook offers that to me.

I come to these forums to see what is new and available, to see if it falls within my realm of interest. What I see much of though is constant belly-aching from certain users who simply put, remove the fun from the experience.

[apengue1]

Fair enough but your solution is still resting on the premise that we must bear the burden of making concessions, rather than the "I quit" posters. I don't feel your solution is the best path to take because it suggests the responder should shoulder more of the blame or responsibility than the initiator.

I apologize for using an extreme analogy, but your social beliefs sound similar to the ones who would see people defending themselves from a robbery get charged for assaulting the perpetrator, who was "startled by his victim and so the fight wasn't really his fault."

At the risk of being too blunt, this entire line of thinking is ... I can't even say it, there's just so much wrongness wrapped around the political correctness segment of western society that I wouldn't know where to begin.

Even your terminology is highly suggestive of a bias against the responder. The "offender" in your example, is simply an innocent "PlaybookUser" rather than the aggressor/initiator/offender. The "defender" or perhaps responder, or reactor(grammar check?) in your example is given the sinister label of "HostileUser". You might as well just change your example to read something like "The evil and sinsiter HostileUser, eater of a thousand worlds, lashed out his poisonous tentacles to inflict pain and suffering unto the poor defenseless innocent PlayBookUser, and the skies opened, and they wept"


You don't happen to work in politics by any chance do you? (j/k )

Sent from my Atrix using Tapatalk

I like your analogy.




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