[chaddeus]

I see a lot of people are actually being hostile to Blackberry quitters especially for Playbook. My intention of this post is to tell others not to be hostile. If you dont like the OP's post and feel angry about it, simply DON'T reply. Just ignore it. No point tell them that you don't care about them and tell them to leave

For those posters sharing their thoughts on why they are quitting, they are just sharing. And its us being hostile and scolding them back doesn't do much good to the Blackberry / Crackberry community. Plus there must be a valid reason for why they quit and move to other platform. Isn't it better to listen to them and constantly push RIM to resolve those issues and come out with a better product?

If someone is being frustrated with their Playbook, shouldn't we try to prove them wrong, and that the Playbook is actually a good device by telling them the work around? Rather than getting angry ourselves and claiming they are trollers doesn't help them at all.

For example:
PlaybookUser: I am frustrated with my Playbook. I can't read Kindle on my Playbook!! I am quitting and going to to other Tablets
HostileUser: Go F yourself. We dont need idiots like you in this forum.
AngelUser: You can sideload Kindle. This is where to get the file. Instructions on how to sideload Kindle can be found here.

Looking at the scenario above, HostileUsers actually kick PlaybookUser out of Crackberry community. Most probably PlaybookUser will get their New Tablet and go to other forums and tell others how lousy Playbook is without Kindle etc but a reply from AngelUser solved PlaybookUser's problem and PlaybookUser continue using the Playbook

If we simply tell them to leave, basically we are admitting their are right because we can't use words to persuade them otherwise. We resort to "violence". If so, aren't we leaving in denial? Just as what some expert claim that RIM is living in its own world when their market share in U.S. was taken by other Smartphones and still don't see a problem in it.

NOO. We can do better and our first step is not to be hostile to people who say bad things about Playbook. If you can't counter argue their concerns, simply shut your fingers and don't reply them. Lets make this forum an open environment where people can discuss about Playbook, and discuss how to make Playbook a better device. We need as many people as possible to create a Playbook user base so that developers can start to see the potential!!

[elphie28]

Very well put! Thank you!

[JeepBB]

I agree with the sentiment of your post entirely and said much the same in another thread.

I think the problem lies in these forums being a hang-out for many "true-believers" who are actually personally offended when someone dares to suggest that PB is less than it should be, or that other platforms offer more.

I sometimes wonder who the true-believers are really trying to convince.

As an aside, and taking nothing away from your plea for people to show good manners and basic politeness, your example from AngelUser would soon become "I'm afraid Kindle isn't available for PB"... which is why I suspect people are passionate about the removal of sideloading in future OS's.

Other than that. An excellent post which I fully endorse!

[JWWDUKE]

What I find most disappointing is the fact that most of the time it's a member that's been here for a long time doing all the hating. I agree that all they are doing is turning people off of crackberry and blackberry. I've actually reduced the amount of forum browsing that I do here because of all the bulls@it.

It's the Internet and you're going to get people that act like idiots, unfortunately.

[JasW]

What I find most disappointing is the fact that most of the time it's a member that's been here for a long time doing all the hating. I agree that all they are doing is turning people off of crackberry and blackberry. I've actually reduced the amount of forum browsing that I do here because of all the bulls@it.

It's the Internet and you're going to get people that act like idiots, unfortunately.

Actually, I've found the opposite -- a lot of the PB defenders who brook no criticism are those who joined the forum within the past year or even six months. People who have been around here for a while (particularly Storm owners) seem to be less apt to jump on people who have problems or criticize the PB. It's not a black and white division in any event.

[joski]

Actually, I've found the opposite -- a lot of the PB defenders who brook no criticism are those who joined the forum within the past year or even six months. People who have been around here for a while (particularly Storm owners) seem to be less apt to jump on people who have problems or criticize the PB. It's not a black and white division in any event.

That was me. Maybe THAT is why I shrug of so much when it comes to OS7 and PlayBook quirks!

While I totally agree with the direction of this thread, I'm more apt to get angry with the "HostileUser" and their entitled feeling to make an effort to COME HERE AND TELL US that they're jumping ship. There's a difference between the example you've provided and the many other instances of this. And in most cases, there's no convincing them otherwise.

But the thing that gets me is they deal with it like an ex-girlfriend. I don't CARE if you're leaving me and seeing other guys. What makes you think I need to know that enough to start a new thread about it?! They're subconscious jealousy mind-games it seems - and I had no idea that THIS would be the place we would see it!

[BBplaybookJS]

For example:
PlaybookUser: I am frustrated with my Playbook. I can't read Kindle on my Playbook!! I am quitting and going to to other Tablets
HostileUser: Go F yourself. We dont need idiots like you in this forum.
AngelUser: You can sideload Kindle. This is where to get the file. Instructions on how to sideload Kindle can be found here.

How about:
Semi-ambivalent User: Really doesn't care that someone does not like their Playbook, but hates to see said user spreading misinformation or anti BB propaganda on these forums simply because they were too lazy to learn to use the device they bought.

I have a simple yardstick by which I judge complaints. If people have a legitimate problem or need that PlayBook does not fulfill, fine, ask, perhaps there is a solution, if not they should look elsewhere. If they whine that ipad or android does this better, or why isn't there an app for that like ipad or android has, guess what, they should have bought an one of those tablets. People should learn how to use this amazing device before they give up on it,if they don't bother, I have little sympathy for them. That having been said I usually don't bother replying unless their complaints are nonsense .

[apengue1]

In a way you are right, but thinking about this situation you speak of, and viewing it in a purely sociological state of mind, one must think to themselves.. why is the community like this?

There's a reason for EVERYTHING. Believe me. Look everywhere around the world. So many different cultures. Also, do you think that for example, the damage done to African Americans or Jews in the past doesn't reflect who they are today? They are very defensive still and might be quick to jump on the offensive if a certain situation arises, and with good reason. (Sound familiar?)

Its definitely not true that all BlackBerry users are the way you say. They were a peaceful people once, now, not so much.

Groups of people usually follow one idea. There's a reason that they follow this though, and believe in it the way they do. America as a whole is just one whole big community, with many sub communities within it. As a whole, all Americans generally feel the same way about certain things. Europeans, for example, might not agree with these views.

So in the end, my point is, that they may not be entirely incorrect to react the way they do. Whats important is to get down to the root of the problem, to when things started changing around that reflects their point of view today, and there is a relevant amount of history to comb over to get down to what you're looking for, and probably many more reasons than just one. It takes a while.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using Tapatalk

[Tre Lawrence]

In a way you are right, but thinking about this situation you speak of, and viewing it in a purely sociological state of mind, one must think to themselves.. why is the community like this?

There's a reason for EVERYTHING. Believe me. Look everywhere around the world. So many different cultures. Also, do you think that for example, the damage done to African Americans or Jews in the past doesn't reflect who they are today? They are very defensive still and might be quick to jump on the offensive if a certain situation arises, and with good reason. (Sound familiar?)

Its definitely not true that all BlackBerry users are the way you say. They were a peaceful people once, now, not so much.

Groups of people usually follow one idea. There's a reason that they follow this though, and believe in it the way they do. America as a whole is just one whole big community, with many sub communities within it. As a whole, all Americans generally feel the same way about certain things. Europeans, for example, might not agree with these views.

So in the end, my point is, that they may not be entirely incorrect to react the way they do. Whats important is to get down to the root of the problem, to when things started changing around that reflects their point of view today, and there is a relevant amount of history to comb over to get down to what you're looking for, and probably many more reasons than just one. It takes a while.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using Tapatalk

Okay... wow.

[Gooseberry Falls]

I see a lot of people are actually being hostile to Blackberry quitters especially for Playbook. My intention of this post is to tell others not to be hostile. If you dont like the OP's post and feel angry about it, simply DON'T reply. Just ignore it. No point tell them that you don't care about them and tell them to leave

I def agree that the "ignore" option is not taken in this forum very frequently...when it should.

[Economist101]

In a way you are right, but thinking about this situation you speak of, and viewing it in a purely sociological state of mind, one must think to themselves.. why is the community like this?

Uh oh.

There's a reason for EVERYTHING. Believe me. Look everywhere around the world. So many different cultures. Also, do you think that for example, the damage done to African Americans or Jews in the past doesn't reflect who they are today? They are very defensive still and might be quick to jump on the offensive if a certain situation arises, and with good reason. (Sound familiar?)

Its definitely not true that all BlackBerry users are the way you say. They were a peaceful people once, now, not so much.

So here we have a stereotype (defensive) and a bad analogy (comparing the groups mentioned above to BB/PB users) in the same paragraph, addressing both a racial group and a religious one. That means we're just one nationality-based stereotype away from the trifecta!

Groups of people usually follow one idea. There's a reason that they follow this though, and believe in it the way they do. America as a whole is just one whole big community, with many sub communities within it. As a whole, all Americans generally feel the same way about certain things. Europeans, for example, might not agree with these views.

And there it is, a nationality-based stereotype. You have achieved the trifecta. Congratulations.

[sagec]

Nice post OP.

A wise man once said "He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool"

I really would like post voting buttons so the hater posts could be collapsed by the community.

[apengue1]

Economist, you're a pretty funny guy. Every one of your posts just makes me break out in laughter! How do you do it?

I guess the truth is a problem for some people, huh? Yeah, my reply made absolutely no logical sense

That's not how the world works at all, but since someone clearly knows the answer to this so called problem, how about you offer it up?

Economist, care to go first? I haven't ever seen you offer up a solution to a problem, only bash other people's thoughts and solutions (some deservingly, but many not so much). Care to talk about your problems? Obviously you have had something bothering you for a very, very long time, or you wouldn't pessimisticly unleash your fury on every post by a forum member you think you can jump on, or is it just because you are DEEPLY pessimistic by nature?

Yeah yeah, I know.. I KNOW! Who am I to call out your pessimism and where are the facts to support my proposition? I mean who the am I to have any sort of opinion on you?!? What gives me the right to post anything unless I subjectively go through the pile of data available to me and make it just right, just for you!

Seriously just cut the crap with your next reply, try not to be so predictable all the time.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using Tapatalk

[cdelcampo216]

I see a lot of people are actually being hostile to Blackberry quitters especially for Playbook. My intention of this post is to tell others not to be hostile. If you dont like the OP's post and feel angry about it, simply DON'T reply. Just ignore it. No point tell them that you don't care about them and tell them to leave

For those posters sharing their thoughts on why they are quitting, they are just sharing. And its us being hostile and scolding them back doesn't do much good to the Blackberry / Crackberry community. Plus there must be a valid reason for why they quit and move to other platform. Isn't it better to listen to them and constantly push RIM to resolve those issues and come out with a better product?

If someone is being frustrated with their Playbook, shouldn't we try to prove them wrong, and that the Playbook is actually a good device by telling them the work around? Rather than getting angry ourselves and claiming they are trollers doesn't help them at all.

For example:
PlaybookUser: I am frustrated with my Playbook. I can't read Kindle on my Playbook!! I am quitting and going to to other Tablets
HostileUser: Go F yourself. We dont need idiots like you in this forum.
AngelUser: You can sideload Kindle. This is where to get the file. Instructions on how to sideload Kindle can be found here.

Looking at the scenario above, HostileUsers actually kick PlaybookUser out of Crackberry community. Most probably PlaybookUser will get their New Tablet and go to other forums and tell others how lousy Playbook is without Kindle etc but a reply from AngelUser solved PlaybookUser's problem and PlaybookUser continue using the Playbook

If we simply tell them to leave, basically we are admitting their are right because we can't use words to persuade them otherwise. We resort to "violence". If so, aren't we leaving in denial? Just as what some expert claim that RIM is living in its own world when their market share in U.S. was taken by other Smartphones and still don't see a problem in it.

NOO. We can do better and our first step is not to be hostile to people who say bad things about Playbook. If you can't counter argue their concerns, simply shut your fingers and don't reply them. Lets make this forum an open environment where people can discuss about Playbook, and discuss how to make Playbook a better device. We need as many people as possible to create a Playbook user base so that developers can start to see the potential!!

Thank you so much for your post. I recently submitted something very similar to it. I have been defending the PlayBook on here since I joined and I feel like I shouldn't have to. There are so many people who attack "Fan Boys" of Apple, but let me tell you, I have owned 7 iPod/Touches & my in-laws have an iPad 1 & iPad 3 & they have everything they want. They don't have FLASH, but yeah, they have the APPS that have it built in. You Tube, games etc.

I find myself using my wife's Kindle Fire all the time when she is away from it to watch Amazon Prime or Netflix when I am away from our TV. I've already decided to either buy one for myself or save up & get an iPad & if that means that a bunch of strangers are going to bash me for it, so be it... I don't want FART APPS, I want APPS that work. I want to use Skype, Netflix or Amazon Prime... Is that too much to ask?!

RIM NEEDS to get these if they expect to keep the PlayBook to compete because right now, I have a kick device that just doesn't compete in the REAL Tablet world.

Let the bashing begin if you want, but sometimes the TRUTH hurts...

[kbz1960]

I think it can be summed up in one word.

Trolls. There have been so many that users are starting to see it all as trolls. Also it is how a title reads or how the post reads.

Thread title
PB wifi = fail.

Not a good start.

Why can't I connect to wifi?

Will get help.

Post
First let me say this isn't a bashing thread but...... IPad, android, if this if that, I should've bought this or that instead because this pos does absolutely nothing.

Look as troll.

Can anyone tell me if I can get kindle working and if so how?

Will get answers.

[torndownunit]

This is a Blackberry forum, so I can understand some users frustrations because of the 'quitter' posts are trolling or borderline trolling. But the bigger problem to me is when people post about an issue they are having with a Playbook to see if there is a solution, and people rip them apart for even asking. There are a lot of users who don't see any difference between constructive criticism or trying to find solutions, and trolling. And that makes for some needlessly hostile threads on here.

It also doesn't help that if you mention a feature of another device in a positive light as an example that maybe RIM should follow, then you are ripped apart as a Fan Boy. Yes there are troll on this forum, but there are also a ton of over-sensitive, hostile, RIM fans who seem to think RIM can do no wrong.

[I am JT]

Looking at the scenario above, HostileUsers actually kick PlaybookUser out of Crackberry community. Most probably PlaybookUser will get their New Tablet and go to other forums and tell others how lousy Playbook is without Kindle etc but a reply from AngelUser solved PlaybookUser's problem and PlaybookUser continue using the Playbook

I agree with the premise of civility in the forums and your example sounds all nice and good but what you fail to mention is that the "hostility" goes both ways. The reality is that your Angeluser often gets bashed and told to quit defending the PlayBook and that you shouldn't have to sideload. Happened to me recently in a thread about improving the PlayBook's productivity. Most of these threads where people are quitting the PlayBook aren't asking for help, they are just announcing a decision. If you've made up your mind why not just leave? Why the announcement? What are we supposed to do? Wring our hands in despair? When I decided on a PlayBook as my tablet of choice I came to a Blackberry forum for a support tool. I didn't run to the Android or IPad forums to tell them the reasons why I didn't like their devices. Here's some simple thoughts. If you have questions, ask them. If you want opinions, ask for them. If you need help, ask for it. Why come here merely to announce your decision to change to another device and then complain because people aren't falling over themselves trying to talk you off the ledge?

[torndownunit]

I agree with the premise of civility in the forums and your example sounds all nice and good but what you fail to mention is that the "hostility" goes both ways. The reality is that your Angeluser often gets bashed and told to quit defending the PlayBook and that you shouldn't have to sideload. Happened to me recently in a thread about improving the PlayBook's productivity. Most of these threads where people are quitting the PlayBook aren't asking for help, they are just announcing a decision. If you've made up your mind why not just leave? Why the announcement? What are we supposed to do? Wring our hands in despair? When I decided on a PlayBook as my tablet of choice I came to a Blackberry forum for a support tool. I didn't run to the Android or IPad forums to tell them the reasons why I didn't like their devices. Here's some simple thoughts. If you have questions, ask them. If you want opinions, ask for them. If you need help, ask for it. Why come here merely to announce your decision to change to another device and then complain because people aren't falling over themselves trying to talk you off the ledge?

The other obvious step people can take is to just not 'feed the trolls'. If it's a thread posted by someone who just wants to knock RIM products and that is glaringly obvious... don't post in it and it will go away.

But again, I think people here need to do a better job separating those troll threads, and what are reasonable discussions. I have seen ridiculous hostility directed towards posters on here for asking perfectly reasonable questions about the Playbook or trying to discuss solutions for a limitation with it. In a lot of those threads, I swear people don't even read the original post. They just assume it's an 'attack thread' and post hostile responses. There is room for the Playbook to improve and room for discussion as to how.

[Tomcat_Alley]

Im only hostile to people who read up on the PB, buy it, then slate it for things they already knew.
Im sure Apple forums are the same when people come on and slag off the iPad with "i bought it but i cant play any of the flash games i like so its a crap product and everyone should hate it."

People who knew the PB didn't have Skype/hulu/netflix who went out and bought one then complain about these things. they are damaging RIMs reputation for no reason. no doubt when they get an android tablet or ipad they will go onto other forums and rave about how much they love their tablet and how much Playbook sucks. RIM is being hurt, and therefore, our chances of pulling in more developers and improving the playbook and its future offspring are being hurt, by people who were fully aware of the limitations. and chose to buy it anyway, and then about how much they hate the limitations.

I will say i am nicer to those who bought it without prior knowledge of the app situation and are disappointed, to those i will try and offer solutions and work arounds, i havent just linked to a thread but ive actually taken time out to walk people through the sideloading process before, introduced them to apps they hadnt heard of etc, but people who know better, who are dragging the Playbook through the mud for the sake of it, those people are the issue, not the PB, and they deserve to be told as much.

[barskin]

Well, here's my experience. I have only recently even mentioned owning other devices on this forum. I do not discuss them in detail. I have also recently taken part in other forums on the subject of these other devices (which is what I consider to be the proper place to engage in such discussions). On other forums, though, I have to report, people criticize their devices and the manufacturers to high heavens. We also discuss what else we own, and other posters generally ooh and ahh about my collection, speaking admiring about the PlayBook, for instance. There is none of the "you own that beeping [insert name of other device/platform here]? Get out you infidel!!" kind of reaction. I have also been outspoken about posters who come here only to insult and belittle other posters. That is nasty and wrong. If, however, people want to insult and belittle the PlayBook, I might not agree with them, but, for pity's sake, it's only a piece of electronic equipment. Why should I care?

[JeepBB]

The other obvious step people can take is to just not 'feed the trolls'. If it's a thread posted by someone who just wants to knock RIM products and that is glaringly obvious... don't post in it and it will go away.

But again, I think people here need to do a better job separating those troll threads, and what are reasonable discussions. I have seen ridiculous hostility directed towards posters on here for asking perfectly reasonable questions about the Playbook or trying to discuss solutions for a limitation with it. In a lot of those threads, I swear people don't even read the original post. They just assume it's an 'attack thread' and post hostile responses. There is room for the Playbook to improve and room for discussion as to how.

Excellent post, which makes many good points. What's a reasonable person like you doing on these forums? LOL

PB isn't terrible, but it isn't perfect either. If it were perfect, we wouldn't be eagerly awaiting the OS2 update... and that update wouldn't be fixing a reported 8,000 bugs!

I am irritated by posts that needlessly praise other platforms, but I am irritated more by posts that say: "PB is perfect, it does everything I want, if it doesn't do what you want, leave... Troll!", or posts that claim that they've never experienced a crash (when even RIM admit to "stability issues") and that every crash must be because you are using it wrong.

Mostly though, I try to ignore the extremists on both sides (as you advise ). They are zealots and cannot be reasoned with, so reasonable men don't try.

[phoanyone]

The overall goal of this forum is to make the PB a better device. I will argue that troll or criticizing posts are more useful that praise posts. Which post below contributes to making the PB better?

A) The PB sucks, there are no apps.
B) The PB is awesome, you can use the browser instead of apps.

If RIM personnel visits this forum to collect data (I hope they do), which post would be more useful? If you were borderline on buying a tablet and doing your research, which post would you put more weight on? If, "I hate the PB" posts are label as trolls, shouldn't the, "I love my PB" be as well? Extreme haters are trolls, but extreme fanboys are not? Strange.

[torndownunit]

Well, here's my experience. I have only recently even mentioned owning other devices on this forum. I do not discuss them in detail. I have also recently taken part in other forums on the subject of these other devices (which is what I consider to be the proper place to engage in such discussions). On other forums, though, I have to report, people criticize their devices and the manufacturers to high heavens. We also discuss what else we own, and other posters generally ooh and ahh about my collection, speaking admiring about the PlayBook, for instance. There is none of the "you own that beeping [insert name of other device/platform here]? Get out you infidel!!" kind of reaction. I have also been outspoken about posters who come here only to insult and belittle other posters. That is nasty and wrong. If, however, people want to insult and belittle the PlayBook, I might not agree with them, but, for pity's sake, it's only a piece of electronic equipment. Why should I care?

I never bring this up because I am afraid of being lambasted on here, but I can agree that it's the exact same at other forums I use. Even on Apple specific forums. You can discuss the limitations or strong points of a product (ANY product) without being ripped apart. Which is how people generally find solutions/workarounds. It could be just a case of more vigilant moderation, but I just don't see the hostility I see here. I don't want to come across as 'hating' this forum because there are some incredibly helpful posters here. People have helped me, mainly an Apple user, a ton with my transition to Playbook.

[Tre Lawrence]

Well, here's my experience. I have only recently even mentioned owning other devices on this forum. I do not discuss them in detail. I have also recently taken part in other forums on the subject of these other devices (which is what I consider to be the proper place to engage in such discussions). On other forums, though, I have to report, people criticize their devices and the manufacturers to high heavens. We also discuss what else we own, and other posters generally ooh and ahh about my collection, speaking admiring about the PlayBook, for instance. There is none of the "you own that beeping [insert name of other device/platform here]? Get out you infidel!!" kind of reaction. I have also been outspoken about posters who come here only to insult and belittle other posters. That is nasty and wrong. If, however, people want to insult and belittle the PlayBook, I might not agree with them, but, for pity's sake, it's only a piece of electronic equipment. Why should I care?

I belong to quite a few tech enthusiast threads. I love all types, and it such a privilege to own and discuss mobile technology.

I have to agree with Barskin. In my limited experience, I see tech people in other communities criticize the heck out of their stuff. People don't get mad. It's a piece of machinery. I have never seen the angst or need to "defend" a platform. Yes, there is tongue-in-cheek ribbing of other platforms, but it does not tend to get so testy.

Case in point (in this very thread): when your mobile experience begins to feel like the Holocaust or the black person's experience in the United States, you NEED to take a step back. For real.

I also agree with Barskin: variety of ownership is lauded. My BBs, Androids, Palms, WinMos are looked upon with envy. That is how it should be... a community of folks who like tech. Yes, there will be bran loyalty, but not enough to engender discord.

I am a big believer of the power of ignoring. Someone does not like your device? It should not be painful. It should not be the red flag in front of the proverbial bull. Relax! LOL.

It doesn't have to be a remake of MJ's Beat It video all the time. There will be troublemakers, but I still think diversity of thought unified by an interest in RIM's products is what makes CB a great community.

[apengue1]

Case in point (in this very thread): when your mobile experience begins to feel like the Holocaust or the black person's experience in the United States, you NEED to take a step back. For real.

You're the only one who feels i expressed that. I simply gave an example of a community with different conflicts, but the basis is the same. Are we not mature enough to mention these kinds of things?

Voldemorte (oh crap i said the name we never speak of!)

Do you equally freak out if a reference was made by a teacher if say you went to school?

lol you're such a d-bag. I never said my mobile experience feels like the holocaust. I made reference just to facilitate your understanding of my point of view. Clearly you are still too dumb to properly decipher and understand the series of words I posted. All you saw was Jews and African Americans.


Anyway since some are mentioning that apparently on other sites this problem deoesn't exist, ill say it again there is a reason. On those other sites there are other problems, and there's also a reason for it.

To assume that its just 'the way this forum is' and that 'BlackBerry owners are so defensive and can't take criticism' is obviously false fact. That's a crazy generalization.

If a woman goes to the supermarket and a stranger simply says hello, and then tells the woman to look at that really ripe banana over on the counter, and then steals her purse that was resting on her carriage and runs off while she was looking the other way, well then no crap she is going to be extremely weary of future friendly encounters at the supermarket where the dialogue simply starts with a simply, friendly, NON-THREATENING ... 'hi'.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using Tapatalk