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  1. dieudos's Avatar
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    Default When would Waterloo show us respect?

    Is what is going on now with the PB the equivalent of the Chinese Water torture? Obviously, we are waiting for the OS update on the playbook. It is not like Waterloo is not aware of this...I am getting tired of carrying a device that I am starting to feel is under par everyday when I look at the competition. I can no longer take it back, sell it, or do anything but wait for the bloody update. When is that going to happen? I cannot be the only person who is totally pissed at this situation; talk about creating loyalty...
  2. mozzamay's Avatar
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    I take it you didn't do your research prior to buying the device? It is what it is, can't see what all the fuss is about. I love my playbook as it is; anything else that comes along during the monthly upgrades is an added bonus IMHO
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  3. dieudos's Avatar
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    You know; I have to agree with you there. I had a choice between the PB and an Ipad, being a long time RIM fan (I had every rim phone) I expected a lot more and still do from the Waterloo brain trust.
  4. Scrapegoat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieudos View Post
    I am getting tired of carrying a device that I am starting to feel is under par everyday when I look at the competition.
    You are not alone and it's not hard to understand why people are getting impatient. From the beginning, it was touted on these pages that due to the "unique" micro kernel set up with QNX, that updates and bug fixes would be very easy to do and regularly and quickly rolled out.

    Yes, improvements have been made, albeit a lot slower than predicted and YES, this device's current capability is definitely underwhelming, considering its touted potential. Couple this with the frustration that is RIM's silence and their lack of marketing savvy to increase awareness and interest of the product, and you have a sure fire recipe for the angst and lack of faith among some current customers.

    Yes, we are all waiting for the "Holy Grail" of updates that is supposedly Version 2.0, but again, true to RIM's nature of deafening silence, this is still nothing more than a speculative rumor, especially relating to the contents of said update.

    I will be very interested to read the feedback on these pages from diehard supporters if this "Holy Grail" is anything less than what the rumor mill has inflated it to be.

    I will be thankful if it is everything the rumor mill suggests, but I will STILL be expecting more until "the potential" is fullfilled.
    Last edited by Scrapegoat; 09-14-2011 at 02:38 PM.
    Bold 9900 rockin v7.1.0.205 & Playbook 64GB
  5. lookhere2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozzamay View Post
    I take it you didn't do your research prior to buying the device? It is what it is, can't see what all the fuss is about. I love my playbook as it is; anything else that comes along during the monthly upgrades is an added bonus IMHO
    Why do people say this??? research.... well if you bought the device from day one you were promised the moon. There is your research!
    Rello and lnichols like this.
  6. trsbbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozzamay View Post
    I take it you didn't do your research prior to buying the device? It is what it is, can't see what all the fuss is about. I love my playbook as it is; anything else that comes along during the monthly upgrades is an added bonus IMHO
    Many did research the PB and it's issues before purchasing.

    It's the slowness of releasing what should of been on the PB to start with.
    It's the dates RIM indicated that the items would be added and then not delivering.
    It's the denying they ever set a date for said items to be added.
    It's the removal of resources once dedicated within RIM to the PBs development.
    It's the saying certain games would be here this last summer and still have not arrived.
    It's the fact they showed certain app icons on their images of the PB that have not been delivered.


    I purchased mine knowing what it would do and not do. I also took their word on when items
    that I need and want would be added. None of which has happened.

    OS2.0 will decide if I remain with BB products. Until then I will not spend one red cent
    on a RIM product. If 2.0 turns out to be lacking still the PB will become a thing of the past
    for many.

    So to blame all the issues of the PB has or the items it is lacking on the consumer is plain wrong.

    The low sales of the PB along with the many bad reviews and returns of the PB speak louder
    than anyones words.

    Tim
    Verizon Z10 STL100-4 OS: v10.3.1.1151
    Playbook OS v2.1.0.1526 and not used!
    BlackBerry continues to act anti-American! Another no U.S. launch for the largest dollar making country (BBs own numbers) for them on the planet!
  7. louzer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapegoat View Post
    You are not alone and it's not hard to understand why people are getting impatient. From the beginning, it was touted on these pages that due to the "unique" micro kernel set up with QNX, that updates and bug fixes would be very easy to do and regularly and quickly rolled out.
    The last OS update was significantly smaller than the one before. If a large part of the OS contains updates, then the file delivered will inherrently be large. I believe that this infrastructure is now in place. Also, updates and bug fixes which now can supposedly be regularly and quickly rolled out, have the time constraint of time to analyze, develop and test before rolling out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapegoat View Post
    Yes, improvements have been made, albeit a lot slower than predicted and YES, this device's current capability is definitely underwhelming, considering its touted potential. Couple this with the frustration that is RIM's silence and their lack of marketing savvy to increase awareness and interest of the product, and you have a sure fire recipe for the angst and lack of faith among some current customers.
    I like the device and like the fact that it's release was not held off until now. You're right about the angst, however, RIM is not one to provide teaser leaks on OS patches. I also think that the majority of the angst is based on the media/bloggers' reactions to RIM in general. When they say the device sucks and RIM is dead, as an owner of a Playbook, you are certainly going to become more concerned.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapegoat View Post
    Yes, we are all waiting for the "Holy Grail" of updates that is supposedly Version 2.0, but again, true to RIM's nature of deafening silence, this is still nothing more than a speculative rumor, especially relating to the contents of said update.
    Being someone who never saw a need for a tablet before the Playbook, I (maybe a minority of 1) considered 1.0 a "Holy Grail" of updates. Keep in mind that nothing firm has been promised. Some time frames have been floated around. The frustrating part is that we have a good idea what's coming. We just don't know when.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapegoat View Post
    I will be very interested to read the feedback on these pages from diehard supporters if this "Holy Grail" is anything less than what the rumor mill has inflated it to be.

    I will be thankful if it is everything the rumor mill suggests, but I will STILL be expecting more until "the potential" is fullfilled.
    I'm not expecting this "Holy Grail" to all be contained within a single update (if by Holy Grail you mean native PIM and the Android Player). Having a Bold 9650 and the Bridge, I am in no hurry for native PIM. And, from what I saw of the leaked Android Player, I'm in no hurry to install a pre-release version of that.

    I feel for the people who either don't have BBs to bridge to and thus have a device without native email capabilities. My stance is that I'd rather be waiting for these updates for my Playbook than have an HP Touchpad and know that it is what it is and that's all.
    Why is it that when your contract commitment is up, the phone you always wanted is now old and the phone you now want won't be out until the next quarter? - Checkout Planet Loser on Channel C003DAB77

    Curve 8330 4.5.0.131 -> Bold 9650 6.0.0.706 --> Qued 10 - Plus not one but two totally awesome (albeit extinct) kickin' Playbooks
  8. louzer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trsbbs View Post
    Many did research the PB and it's issues before purchasing.

    It's the slowness of releasing what should of been on the PB to start with.
    It's the dates RIM indicated that the items would be added and then not delivering.
    It's the denying they ever set a date for said items to be added.
    It's the removal of resources once dedicated within RIM to the PBs development.
    It's the saying certain games would be here this last summer and still have not arrived.
    It's the fact they showed certain app icons on their images of the PB that have not been delivered.


    I purchased mine knowing what it would do and not do. I also took their word on when items
    that I need and want would be added. None of which has happened.

    OS2.0 will decide if I remain with BB products. Until then I will not spend one red cent
    on a RIM product. If 2.0 turns out to be lacking still the PB will become a thing of the past
    for many.

    So to blame all the issues of the PB has or the items it is lacking on the consumer is plain wrong.

    The low sales of the PB along with the many bad reviews and returns of the PB speak louder
    than anyones words.

    Tim
    Considering that the Playbook, as originally introduced, was supposed to be available around October 2010 and the fact that RIM was going through a transition phase while having to complete a new set of phones running a new version of an OS that quite different than QNX, while steering the two development efforts to a nexus (no pun intended), while developing a strategy for a new phone that will run QNX, while fending off vicious attacks from media, bloggers, investors, and inside employees, I tend to cut them a bit of slack on this. You have to be impressed by the new line of phones they released to hold them over. They are showing a commitment and that's what's important to me (aside from the fact that I love my Playbook!).

    The apps that they showed icons of might just be apps that they thought they were going to have an agreement in place for and then something went wrong or the agreement went sour. This is more a function of the litigious times we live in more that promise breaking.

    As long as they retain a commitment to the Playbook, I have faith that they'll deliver. The only question is when. And historically, this isn't the first time I'm hearing people angry with RIM not delivering on time.
    Why is it that when your contract commitment is up, the phone you always wanted is now old and the phone you now want won't be out until the next quarter? - Checkout Planet Loser on Channel C003DAB77

    Curve 8330 4.5.0.131 -> Bold 9650 6.0.0.706 --> Qued 10 - Plus not one but two totally awesome (albeit extinct) kickin' Playbooks
  9. lnichols's Avatar
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    When the CEO of a company tells me on release day in a news interview that Native e-mail and PIM are 60 days out, I'd like to think I can believe the guy. We are at almost 150 days out and nothing. While I'm not sure if I would use said functions, I know that they are expected for this type of device, and that not having them is hampering sales, which means the platform will not be adopted enough to get developers interested. When the marketing material on the company's website shows icons for Skype and other important apps, the consumer is led to believe that means that these apps are coming. I didn't expect it to be able to do everything from day 1, and RIM implied that a lot would be happening in reasonable pace which it hasn't. RIM has also done nothing since release to tell people what is going on and when we can expect things. It looks like they are even going to miss their "by the end of summer" statements for these features. This is what I gathered from my "research" at purchase:

    - RIM is committed to QNX (they haven't really shown it IMHO)
    - Native PIM/e-mail coming soon (Nope)
    - Apps like Skype, Fantasy Football, great apps from TAT would be out soon (Nope)
    - Android Player would be out soon for "App Tonage" (Nope)

    Again I love the device, but I'm getting sick of RIM's apparent lack of love for it, because it hurts the growth of the QNX ecosystem. I know this device has a lot of promise and the OS is amazing, but my knowing this won't get developers interested in it. I want to see this platform succeed, but all I see is RIM sitting back and watching it die!
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  10. eds817's Avatar
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    Even with it's limitations I would still take the PlayBook over the iPad or any Android tablet.
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  11. zank's Avatar
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    exactly what i was about to say on all fronts, time periods, ceo's word, widespread adoption, etc. I'm glad someone other than me said it i was starting to sound like abroken record.


    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols View Post
    When the CEO of a company tells me on release day in a news interview that Native e-mail and PIM are 60 days out, I'd like to think I can believe the guy. We are at almost 150 days out and nothing. While I'm not sure if I would use said functions, I know that they are expected for this type of device, and that not having them is hampering sales, which means the platform will not be adopted enough to get developers interested. When the marketing material on the company's website shows icons for Skype and other important apps, the consumer is led to believe that means that these apps are coming. I didn't expect it to be able to do everything from day 1, and RIM implied that a lot would be happening in reasonable pace which it hasn't. RIM has also done nothing since release to tell people what is going on and when we can expect things. It looks like they are even going to miss their "by the end of summer" statements for these features. This is what I gathered from my "research" at purchase:

    - RIM is committed to QNX (they haven't really shown it IMHO)
    - Native PIM/e-mail coming soon (Nope)
    - Apps like Skype, Fantasy Football, great apps from TAT would be out soon (Nope)
    - Android Player would be out soon for "App Tonage" (Nope)

    Again I love the device, but I'm getting sick of RIM's apparent lack of love for it, because it hurts the growth of the QNX ecosystem. I know this device has a lot of promise and the OS is amazing, but my knowing this won't get developers interested in it. I want to see this platform succeed, but all I see is RIM sitting back and watching it die!
  12. lookhere2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdS817 View Post
    Even with it's limitations I would still take the PlayBook over the iPad or any Android tablet.
    And I guess if you were floating around the sea you would prefer the 2 ton bolder over a life raft as well??
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    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols View Post
    When the CEO of a company tells me on release day in a news interview that Native e-mail and PIM are 60 days out, I'd like to think I can believe the guy. We are at almost 150 days out and nothing.....
    That's exactly what is most annoying! For some reasons I need native e-mail, without my PlayBook is a nice but worthless gadget for me. I was confident that RIM will deliver on short notice, now I am deeply disappointed!
    cheers - mike
  14. louzer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lookhere2000 View Post
    And I guess if you were floating around the sea you would prefer the 2 ton bolder over a life raft as well??
    The Touchpad is th 2 ton boulder. The HTC View (with stylus), original Galaxy Tab, Dell Streak, Acer Iconia, Asus Transformer, and Xoom are life rafts with a slow leak (where's the OS support for these a few months out?). The Playbook is a usable but not complete lifeboat. And as of right now, the iPad is a life raft with a small outboard engine and about a days worth of food.

    As far as apps go, Skype, Netflix, etc are not RIM's to decide if they should or should not be on the Playbook. It's completely up to the vendors (as discussed ad naseum in this forum).

    New apps and OS updates take time to develop. As far as TAT goes, I'm not sure what's up there, but I'm willing to bet that they've got their hands full working on UI changes/enhancements for the forthcoming OS.

    As far as the 60 day and end of summer committment is concerned, Apple delayed the launch of the iPhone 5 missing their usual June release. They also just recently pushed off the release date of the iPad 3 from an announce end-of-year to Q2 2012. And who knows what was up with Motorola and the wisdom-teeth-pulling angst users had with the release of the Droid Bionic.

    Release day slips are not something that is RIM-specific. Secrecy and closed communications channels is not either (sic. Apple security guarding phones). It seems to me that these discussions gain traction before updates are delivered. Remember that it's not even a month since RIM surprised us with an update that contained an unannounced (and hopefully intentionally and not a bug) feature of giving most connected apps connectivity via the bridge. As I said when the update hit and as I still say now, that was huge!
    Why is it that when your contract commitment is up, the phone you always wanted is now old and the phone you now want won't be out until the next quarter? - Checkout Planet Loser on Channel C003DAB77

    Curve 8330 4.5.0.131 -> Bold 9650 6.0.0.706 --> Qued 10 - Plus not one but two totally awesome (albeit extinct) kickin' Playbooks
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdS817 View Post
    Even with it's limitations I would still take the PlayBook over the iPad or any Android tablet.
    I like the pb but I'm not so sure anymore. The damn thing can't even spell. And when I spell, I can't use the browser to find the word I spelled - there is no FIND function in three pretty important apps, Browser, PDF and Word.

    I canNOT copy paste cells/blocks in Spreadsheets. After 5 full months I cannot rename or move around Bookmarks. I canNOT enlarge the fonts or pinch/zoom email. I cannot easily place the cursor in an email reply to edit it since it can't correct my spelling. I cannot create any new folders for my proliferating list of anemic apps.

    So, again, I'm not so sure. To put it bluntly, I'm disappointed in the device and more so, in rim.
  16. louzer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by munichblue View Post
    That's exactly what is most annoying! For some reasons I need native e-mail, without my PlayBook is a nice but worthless gadget for me. I was confident that RIM will deliver on short notice, now I am deeply disappointed!
    I'd have been more disappointed if they released native PIM prematurely and it didn't work right.

    Remember, we have no idea what Playbook 2.0 is or what the relaunch entails (from software enhancements to marketing). If it's really not fitting any of your needs, then sell it. But, if the limitations are not hampering your ability to conduct business, then I think it could be a fun couple of months coming up.
    Why is it that when your contract commitment is up, the phone you always wanted is now old and the phone you now want won't be out until the next quarter? - Checkout Planet Loser on Channel C003DAB77

    Curve 8330 4.5.0.131 -> Bold 9650 6.0.0.706 --> Qued 10 - Plus not one but two totally awesome (albeit extinct) kickin' Playbooks
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    Quote Originally Posted by louzer View Post
    As far as the 60 day and end of summer committment is concerned, Apple delayed the launch of the iPhone 5 missing their usual June release. They also just recently pushed off the release date of the iPad 3 from an announce end-of-year to Q2 2012. And who knows what was up with Motorola and the wisdom-teeth-pulling angst users had with the release of the Droid Bionic.
    Apple has yet to publicly acknowledge even the existence of an iPhone 5 or an iPad 3, so it's a bit of a reach to compare those "delays" to Jim B. saying the PB was scheduled to have native e-mail within 60 days.
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    Generally speaking, when you manage a store (RIM), it is your business to be in touch with your clients (us) as they are the ones who keep the lights on. Pissed off clients don't spend money in your store; I believe that is the "golden rule" in commerce.! It would a whole different ball game if RIM management was forthcoming and keeping communication going. But, they do not and it looks as though they don't care. Frankly for a company under so much pressure, to develop a sphinx mentality, and simply not follow up on promises made and or not even keep its client base informed on what is happening, is strange. Rim management has the email address of every person who purchased a PB, by way of registration through the system. How about starting with some sort of frequent (bi-monthly for example) email notification on where things are. I am starting to think RIM should have had a major recall a la Toyota when a product is known to be defective or limited in its functionality; etc...While I recognize that we have been had, I have traveled a bit too far to make a u-turn. I am in for a few hundreds and the truth is, I now have major reservations about any RIM products. Maybe, just maybe, I could be turned around, but this whole PB reminds me of certain Chevy Monza I used to own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozzamay View Post
    I take it you didn't do your research prior to buying the device?
    He may have done his research and seen a CEO say on video "Native email within 60 days of release" or read an official press-release saying "the Android player is on track for a beta release in August" and purchased based on that assumption. Think before you speak.
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    THERE IS NO OS 2.0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




    We have taken a rumor (something someone assumed just because updates slowed down) to be fact. RIM never said anything about an OS2.0 as a matter of fact the only place I've ever heard about it is here. And the other places on the net that talk about it, got the notion from here. And we know that this whole idea came from a damn brainstorm!!

    Please let it go. If you have buyers remorse. Tough. But don't hang RIM for "delaying" an OS update that by all accounts doesn't even exist.

    I plan on purchasing a Playbook for Christmas and I'm doing it based on what the tablet can do NOW. If they decide to add an android player... cool, Skype... cool, native email... yeah whatever, but I'm not gonna be pissed about "promised OS updates" that don't even officially exist!

    Wow!
    "In the end, the amount of people that attend your funeral will depend on the weather"
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    I really dont understand why the updates are taking so long. Do they not have enough programmers? Is QNX too hard to program for? I just really dont get it.
  22. #22  

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    Quote Originally Posted by m23haz View Post
    I really dont understand why the updates are taking so long. Do they not have enough programmers? Is QNX too hard to program for? I just really dont get it.
    Yes and yes. They probably don't have enough skilled programmers who can work under qnx. And they have probably found that native email on a SECURE platform like the pb is not as easy as they anticipated.

    Now why some of what appears to be simple stuff is still missing like SEARCH functions and spell/auto/etc text, well, they probably don't think it is important in relation to other issues.

    But my answer is like most of the facts around here - speculation.

    I tend to agree that no one from rim has marched out in front of a microphone and said we are working a reboot/relaunch dubbed OS2. More conjecture.

    What is probably sad is that rim has probably sold more pb's based on these smoke/mirror and silent tactics, suckering, yes, suckering in those who actually expect results. But then buyer beware as well as the ol' "fool me once, shame you, fool me twice, shame on me" applies.

    I suspect rim is losing some loyal fans. Maybe not a ton but some and word-of-mouth and forums like this will not help their tarnished reputation.

    I am willing to be "disappointed" in reverse by them releasing something sweet but the sour taste left so far will be hard to overcome.
    Last edited by F2; 09-15-2011 at 12:48 AM.
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  23. snapperhead23's Avatar
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    Default respect from Waterloo

    I don't know that any of us can fathom what it must be like to manage a corporation the size of RIM. I co-own a small countertop business and I know it's mostly a lot of hard work. A key to success is to do a better job than your competition. i have found it beneficial to treat all of my customers as if they were all like the 1-2% that are very demanding and sometimes quite challenging. This keeps me on my toes and continually looking for improvements. it also gives me insite as when to draw the line.

    500,000 units delivered, returns? anybody's guess. 250,000 playbooks in hand and climbing? 10,000 negative post in this forum ( probably an exaggeration, but sure seems like a lot ). acceptable numbers? maybe.

    25 years ago I bought my first VCR, for a lot of money, they gave me a payment plan. My first smartphone was a Pocket PC. It was a marvel of technology. My first BB was an 8320 curve and now i have a 9780 Bold. I wanted a PB in April, but I read and waited till my birthday in mid July. I am not the most tech savey or the most literate, but my playbook provides a very satisfactory experience.

    I have tons of pictures. I organized them on my PC and wifi transfered to PB pictures. My customers like it, like it, you get the idea. My wife emailed me several Power Point presentations that downloaded with ease. This is pretty cool stuff to show my customers. I use this Playbook more than any other computer I have ever had.

    I personally am not looking for any more respect from RIM and apparently not alone in this position. Technology will continue to change. (It won't be like this for long) Those of you that have suggestions for improvement have been provided several threads specifically for that purpose. Your opinions have been and will continue to be scrutinized with tremendous appreciation and interest. I don't believe a lot of us have any patience or sympathy for anyone that apears to be irrational or immature.

    I do have a lot of hope and high expectation for this platform. I have been mostly satisfied with the RIM products I have purchased thus far. Like any software I have ever used, there are always issues that could be different. Companies always seek feedback, sometimes it makes a difference.

    As for large corporations, they have to deal with security of ideas in regards to competition, cost, legalities and a population that has been taught to raise cain when they don't get what they want.

    It has been well documented here that customer support has been somewhat responsive, several RMA's have been executed in timely fashon. That looks like respect to me. I have read horror stories and been frightend that my playbook would die. I am sure that a lot of these issues are real, but I am just as sure some of them are no more than incompetence.

    I think i might go into a Best Buy tomarrow and fuss if the display is not up to par. Sales increases will help us all.
    Good luck
    can't leave my PB alone
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    Quote Originally Posted by louzer View Post
    Considering that the Playbook, as originally introduced, was supposed to be available around October 2010 and the fact that RIM was going through a transition phase while having to complete a new set of phones running a new version of an OS that quite different than QNX, while steering the two development efforts to a nexus (no pun intended), while developing a strategy for a new phone that will run QNX, while fending off vicious attacks from media, bloggers, investors, and inside employees, I tend to cut them a bit of slack on this
    You are much more generous that I would be towards management at Research In Motion. Simply stated management screwed up and making excuses for their incompetence only rewards these miscreants. If the development teams are not up to the challenge terminate these team members including management and hire people with the technical knowledge and motivation to rise to the challenge. The loss of focus on delivering high-quality products and services to the end-users despite some interference from the wireless carrier partners is inexcusable and the time for *****-footing around is over.

    If I had the money I would buy Research In Motion and take it private so a complete realignment of priorities could be undertaken. By the end of six months every deficiency would have been addressed and every CrackBerry abuser would be rejoicing (or calling for my head on a platter... but I enjoy living dangerously).
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    #25  

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    Here is a point unrelated, but it shines with behavior that defines this drone company. When the original crapware Storm 9530 was released, totally not ready for prime time, RIM Nitwits responded to a mountain of complaints and returned devices with two lame updates for the year since this garbage was released. The followup Storm2 9550 Glitch City unit had the same disregard and arrogant lack of support from these "titans." These product required major fixes! Days, weeks, months went by...Nothing! The RIM way? to ignore the remedy. Either their R&D is so bad, marketing clueless, or they are so much "over their head" with lack of talent, this is the approach from a group in a major free fall.

    When Microsoft 8 is released on tablets, say gooodbye to RIM-Less.....
    Last edited by stormsurvivor; 09-15-2011 at 11:03 AM.
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