Very long detailed comparison - PB vs. new iPad (hopefully objectiv)
- Also, to the OP, I can't believe you gave the iPad the edge for the back camera o.O
Regardless, I agree with everything else and find this to be a fantastic, honest, and unbiased review. Thanks for being objective!03-21-12 06:18 AMLike 0 - Random stuff..
iPad does not have native MKV support. Unless you consider AVPlayerHD or such Apps to be native support. To play MKV without any Apps.. Yes, MKV will have to be converted.
Omg yes mother I am sure SAMOLED+ is cheaper than Retina.
Who ever said it was? I just said Apple holds high budgets and financials ($500bn in brackets).. If you were smart then you would obviously understand I'm talking about market caps and not sales figures.. Bro no need to argue on everything..Last edited by varunsain; 03-21-12 at 06:57 AM.
03-21-12 06:54 AMLike 0 - i gave the ipads back camera the edge bacause of the way better pictures,in terms of videos the are pretty similar,but like mentioned,didnt use both that much03-21-12 08:11 AMLike 0
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You still failed to point out what is wrong in my post, is WinCE not a RTOS or RTOS have some great advantage in general purpose computer that I don't know?
Better start at something basic, right?
What is a Real-Time Operating System (RTOS)? - Developer Zone - National Instruments
Do I Need a Real-Time System? - Developer Zone - National Instruments
Real-Time Systems - OSDev Wiki
Then later you can do some research about the drawback of RTOS for general purpose computer, like context switch, low throughput, etc...
So, like I said before, different systems for different purpose. Plus the fact that WinCE running on many PDA in a decade is a RTOS.
Sorry to break your illusion, but nothing fancy or revolutionary about RTOS, it isn't even new in mobile space.Last edited by Vindicators; 03-21-12 at 08:48 AM.
03-21-12 08:46 AMLike 0 -
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm today is a bad day but good learning.Last edited by varunsain; 03-21-12 at 10:30 AM.
03-21-12 10:12 AMLike 0 - Microkernel performance.... in the very document you just posted, right?
And based on what you just said, I think you don't even understand the important part of RTOS (hard real-time scheduling, priority deadline, response time,...)
General purpose computers, like your tablet, run all sort of system services, keep multi network connection, play media in background, do graphic animation, game and office stuff, fancy GUI,... yes, it is a general purpose computer.
For the last part, I already said that WinCE is a RTOS, is it that hard for you to accept reality? LOL03-21-12 11:03 AMLike 0 - So atleast you agree RTOS has some importance.. I guess those important parts are what's required. We are on a consensus here?
It is only Steve Jobs who said that the tablet was better than a personal computer (well sort of in a way at ipad1 launch) but now the world thinks that even the tablet is a general purpose computer.
So even your new age radio is a general purpose computer.. Did you know that?
Let's leave the tablet as a 'mobile computer'.
But for argument sake I would like to refer to any pc or mac as a general computer and everything else has it's category..
WinCE itself is developed for embedded systems and I posted earlier that embedded systems require RTOS.03-21-12 11:51 AMLike 0 - LOL, really?
WinCE is a RTOS but it is not revolutionary because it is developed for embedded systems but QNX is revolutionary because it is developed for embedded systems, wait, what???
So, I get it that you don't have any slightest idea about RTOS, context switch, throughput, priority, schedule,... in general, but love to talk about the revolutionary based on your illusion. And you don't even read (or understand) the link posted by yourself.
It is not worth for me to continue this debate, sorry.Last edited by Vindicators; 03-21-12 at 12:28 PM.
03-21-12 12:25 PMLike 0 - Who said it wasn't revolutionary? It was.. but somehow revolutionary can just be a one time thing for you..
QNX can be revolutionary for RIM in the simplest of terms let alone for consumers.
Ofcourse I don't have detailed knowledge on RTOS.. Not an engineer.. but I love to talk about it since I know the kind of things that can be achieved by an RTOS system.
The link simply states the performance of Monolithic kernel vs. Microkernel.. Because you stated that Monolithic are superior since general computers prefer using them..
Your points have dissolved from many to none.. Ofcourse it's not worth for you to continue.03-21-12 12:37 PMLike 0 -
oh, even your link said that microkernel OS (just microkernel, don't have anything regard to RTOS) must be directly optimized for the processor in order to get performance up to the level of monolithic kernel.
Of course my points have dissolved, lol03-21-12 12:56 PMLike 0 - Here’s my problem with your review. Although it reads very objectively, you appear to attribute the same weight to every element which in my view is its weakness. If we consider the PC and Mac debate of yesteryear, one point that Mac users would point to was how good Macs were at Photoshop and graphic design in general. Software developers have closed the gap and the diff is not so big. On the enterprise side, for the longest time PCs were the only option so the debate on semantics was almost pointless.
My point is this, for a tablet or other mobile smart-device, Apps are everything. You can talk of camera resolution, processor speed, 4G connectivity, form factor and so forth but if there are no Apps then it’s a nice paperweight. This is this PB Achilles heel. Android and Apple are so far ahead that BB, Microsoft and the likes are constantly trying to catch up but it’s an uphill battle because it relies solely on developers to step up and develop and/or convert existing apps. I find there is a serious lack of productivity apps which I can easily find on my Android and iOS devices. I should mention that I own a PB, iPad 2 and G Note.
I was underwhelmed by the OS2 update. It does all that it should have done back when it was launched but then it should have from the outset.
I freelance so for the purpose of real-world testing, I’ve travelled with each device separately just to see which was best. In the end, for me it was the G Note hands down. iPad suffers from poor integration with my work tools, and its inability to do true multitask is a problem. The PB simply does not have enough tools and I also find it integrates poorly unless you use native apps ad even then I’m not a big FB or Twit user. It’s not a bad device but RIM failed from the outset and I like many have moved on. We gave them a shot and they blew it and I’m not here to be liked by them they should be pandering to me not expecting me to wait almost a year for basic functionalities.
The review compared pricing by noting the quality of the build but value is far more than the sum of its parts. The PB has some enviable traits and the OS has some cool features, but WebOS and the Pre had that also and look where that got them. My sad prediction for the PB is a slow and ungraceful demise due almost exclusively to a poor selection of Apps and not for any other inherent weakness. It checks all the right boxes on features and specs. It always did.03-21-12 01:16 PMLike 0 - You are hilarious. If this is random, then you are the master of random things. "True software" and "i5/i7 tablet processors"
Also no need to twist things. Everybody knew the iPad 3 was coming. But the only person who seems to know i5/i7 tablet processor could be coming in 2012 was you.
Of course you are. We know how fact-based your arguments are
Furthermore, I don't remember that I ever said anything about sales revenues. So you may want to look up the definition for "assets" as well. They are not sales.Last edited by kennyliu; 03-21-12 at 01:26 PM.
03-21-12 01:23 PMLike 0 -
Read up a little more in detail rather than rushing into an argument.EricB1968 likes this.03-21-12 11:41 PMLike 1 -
So let's see what's random in this dicussion. We were discussing about OS/Processors and Kernels being able to run embedded programs which would take advantage of the build structure.
Difference Between Software and Application | Difference Between | Software vs Application - Take this website for example.
'True software' would refer to 'Software' in this article and 'Software' would be referring to 'Applications'.
i5/i7 Tablet Processors... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrandale_(microprocessor) - Arrandale is the code name for a mobile Intel processor[clarification needed], sold as mobile Intel Core i3, i5 and i7... I'm sorry - I should have referred to i5/i7 Tablet processors as i5/i7 Mobile Intel processor.
i5/i7 Tablet processor doesn't seem so mythical after all right? Please explain how is it mythical, random, false, misinformation, sci-fi jabber, etc.? ASUS Eee Slate Tablet EP121-1A011M is already using Intel i5 tablet processor. Hmmmmmmm the horror.
How is Quantum processor relevant in this discussion?
Possibilities are endless, but we are talking about the new iPad in 2012 where there is no technology that is even close to i5/i7 tablet processors. Mind you that Intel is also sitting on a pile of cash that is quite comparable to that of Apple's and as you know Intel specialized on chips, unlike Apple. So even Intel couldn't come up with anything close to i5/i7 tablet processor (whatever that may mean) and is trying hard to compete with underpowered (by desktop processors' standards) ARM and the only thing that they could come up is Medfield. Here is another fail in your argument that Apple, being a non-chip-maker could develop a revolutionary "i5/i7 tablet processor' just because it has resources.
It is new for you since I believe you have never seen or used the iPad3. There is a special category / section in App store for Retina-Apps which has only around 60 Apps as of now.
Again, SAMOLED+ is cheaper than Retina.
And furthermore, market capitalization is based on a market estimate of a company's value, based on perceived future prospects, economic and monetary conditions. So mentioning market cap can be of more interest rather than sales revenue or assets.
Ps. I don't get into much arguments or debates on forums, but I've noticed you ruining every justified RIM/PlayBook thread by misleading people in here so I did not want to let it go this time.Last edited by varunsain; 03-22-12 at 01:15 AM.
EricB1968 likes this.03-22-12 12:21 AMLike 1 - Quantum processor (irrelevant here) vs. True software and i5/i7 Tablet processor..
So let's see what's random in this dicussion. We were discussing about OS/Processors and Kernels being able to run embedded programs which would take advantage of the build structure.
Difference Between Software and Application | Difference Between | Software vs Application - Take this website for example.
'True software' would refer to 'Software' in this article and 'Software' would be referring to 'Applications'.
OK, I don't really know what prevails in your comments. Ignorance or you being so relentless.
Anyway, there are no such things as "true software". That's a term that you just made up. And, please, reread your linked article. The four criteria listed do not support how you described a 'true software' in any way.
i5/i7 Tablet Processors... Arrandale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Arrandale is the code name for a mobile Intel processor[clarification needed], sold as mobile Intel Core i3, i5 and i7... I'm sorry - I should have referred to i5/i7 Tablet processors as i5/i7 Mobile Intel processor.
i5/i7 Tablet processor doesn't seem so mythical after all right? Please explain how is it mythical, random, false, misinformation, sci-fi jabber, etc.? ASUS Eee Slate Tablet EP121-1A011M is already using Intel i5 tablet processor. Hmmmmmmm the horror.
It's another term made up by you.
Now go to the Arandale description and take a look at the TDPs. How on earth are you going to get 20+ hours with that?
Go to the Asus Slate Tablet specs. Here is a link for you:
Newegg.com - ASUS Eee Pad (Eee Slate) EP121-1A011M Tablet PC Intel Core i5 470UM(1.33GHz) 12.1" Wide SVGA 2GB Memory DDR3 1333 32GB SSD HDD Intel HD Graphics
See what the battery life is? 3 hours. That's with a 34 W/h battery, which is only 20-25% less than the one on the new iPad.
20+? Really? You must be a time traveler form 2020.
It is as relevant as a non-existent i5/i7 tablet processor that gets you 20+ hours.
You said that 4G is becoming the standard which I clearly denied (since we were talking about year 2012). It might become the standard in mobile communication but by maybe the year 2015. Until then GSM is the definite standard. My argument here was that iPad could hold off their 4G support until next year launch (when 4G gains momentum) and focus on other priority issues on the iPad (since iPad2 already has 2G & 3G support). As of now, 4G/LTE is also a major factor in battery drain & overheating on the new iPad.
See the bolded text above. That's not what your argument was. You just realized that you were wrong by saying iPad should have 2G/3G instead of 4G, whereas it has all three.
Yawn.. What do you call this? FUD? I don't believe in that though.. Again. i5/i7 Tablet Processors... Arrandale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Arrandale is the code name for a mobile Intel processor, sold as mobile Intel Core i3, i5 and i7... I'm sorry - I should have referred to i5/i7 Tablet processors as i5/i7 Mobile Intel processor. ASUS Eee Slate Tablet EP121-1A011M is already using the i5 Mobile Intel processor which I mistakenly called i5 Tablet processor.
Yeah, you wish.
Btw, what is "monetary budgets"? "Financials"?
'You mentioned 120-150$ bn so I assumed you were talking about 'Apple had $127.8 billion in sales during the 2011 calendar year' .. Next time you can be a bit more specific on the figure as I don't understand how Assets, Revenues or any financials can be quoted as a range?
I can give you an example:
Playbook "Javascript Browser" Beats iPad because the PB scores higher on Sunspider
ROFL
Edit: Don't bother responding. As the above shows you really don't know what you are talking about. Don't cause more harm.Last edited by kennyliu; 03-22-12 at 02:21 AM.
03-22-12 01:43 AMLike 0 - Bla1zeCB OGYou all keep reporting each others posts, if it's that big of an issue.. stfu and move on. I'm not killing any of your posts, you're the ones sitting here arguing with yourselves and are too stubborn to walk away from each other. If you can't manage to do that, then stop wasting my and the rest of the mod teams time by reporting each other.03-22-12 02:04 AMLike 5
- You all keep reporting each others posts, if it's that big of an issue.. stfu and move on. I'm not killing any of your posts, you're the ones sitting here arguing with yourselves and are too stubborn to walk away from each other. If you can't manage to do that, then stop wasting my and the rest of the mod teams time by reporting each other.
I am out of this.Last edited by kennyliu; 03-22-12 at 02:30 AM.
03-22-12 02:25 AMLike 0 - kennyliu I don't even know what I can quote from your last post. I'm still trying to make sense out of it..
You're going on arguing with stuff like when I say 'there's water in the glass..' you come back with a response like 'non-sense.. there's NO water in the glass.. there's just 30 ml of clear liquid in there..'
Asus is using an i5 processor on its tablet which I have been trying to convey since the very beginning.. and now that you understand that - you're bringing battery life into issue. Don't you think Apple is better capable of providing improved battery life than Asus?
Ofcourse there is no official term as 'True Software' but I think I clearly explained the meaning of it earlier.. I don't know why you going crazy over this like you have never heard people make up a term for something that doesn't have an official name?
Same with i5 Tablet processor - You can keep repeating that i5 Tablet processor does not exist.. but it does not change the fact that 1. Intel has a modified version of it's desktop i5 processor for use in tablets. 2. Asus is using i5 tablet processor which is a stripped down version of the i5 desktop processor and called i5 mobile processor. So technically even your tablet is a mobile computer but you call it a tablet computer right?
Sure it might not be called i5 'Tablet' processor but it's definitely an i5 Mobile processor which is being used on a tablet.. Something like Retina display is not actually like your 'Retina' but it's called so because it's the closest right..
i5 Tablet processor/120gb storage/+20 hours battery life/ Minus(-) Retina display /4G /Quad graphics.. It was a suggestion brother.. You wanna pick dirt on this?
'You say, LTE is becoming standard atleast in the markets where Apple has most sales in' .. China which is second largest market for Apple (and was to be considered as the largest) has to wait on LTE for next 2-3 years. Europe, Asia also have no LTE availability. Coming back to my point, 4G is only readily available is US and Canada.. So I suggested that iPad should have retained its 2G/3G status and provided some other feature rather than 4G.
And don't hold a stupid argument. It's obvious that any successor provides legacy support.
Retina-Based apps - Again, arguments with you are very repetitive. They might not be called 'Retina-based' apps but they are surely called 'Retina-Ready' apps all over the internet. Refer to my water example stated in the beginning. And I have to correct myself - there are NOT 60 but infact only 24 apps in this category.
Some personal grudges in the middle to which I don't have any remarks and they are pretty much expected..
And the Sunspider score was from one of the initial new iPad test results which marked the iPad at 2300ms and the PB at 2240.. Test results might have been off.. and can change overtime.. like PB browser would lead in HTML5 score but now Opera takes first place.. That was a light-hearted post since that day was a mad pb vs. ipad day on all threads.. so it was with some sarcasm.. but you had to troll on that too.. anyways
don't think you have anything left to share since you've shouted out everything that came to your mind..03-22-12 03:24 AMLike 0 - I pointed out wrong on this.. It is clearly showcased on the RIM PlayBook that RTOS and Microkernel can provide enhanced multi-tasking capabilities and also embedded OS functions which can enable device to be used as single-purpose tabs. So I don't understand why you say there is a performance drawback and this kind of system is not suited for Tablets. Please explain in detail rather than make general statements.
And so the kernel on the PlayBook is optimized directly for the processor and provides the performance. It's right that this needs to be done to bring it up to the performance of a monolithic.. But that's half information. Once the kernel is optimized, it provides additional functions like multi-tasking, etc. which the monolithic kernel cannot match.
Read up a little more in detail rather than rushing into an argument.
Did you even read anything at all?
The PlaybookOS or iOS, Android are a different story, because it is consumer OS with software stack, touch interface and GUI build on top of those QNX, Mach/XNU, Linux kernels. It is not likely Android running in a supercomputer, PlaybookOS powered a nuclear power plant or something need hard realtime schedule, low latency,.....
And what exactly are the things you called "enhanced multi-tasking capabilities" and "additional functions the monolithic kernel cannot match"???
It is not "clearly showcased" because the way I see, the multitasking model in the Playbook is exactly like my WM 5 phone from years ago, they keep all apps running with fully UI render in background, oh, and with WM 5 you can even have overlay windows and app hooked up to another app, is this what you called "enhanced" lol
BTW, googled Nokia N900, it's also have enhanced multi-tasking capabilities =)
Sorry but the world moves on, they realize that with the current state of mobileOS which is a single window, single application model, you can't see another program in backgroud. There is no point to waste resource render UI in background, so they switch to background service multitasking model.
To sum it up, that "enhanced multi-tasking capabilities" is a design decision's model, nothing to do with a kernel, and it is not even new, in fact it is too old that most of other mobile OS shifted to another model.
Oh, and BTW, that retina-ready category you said, it is apps promoted by Apple. Nothing to do with the number of retina-ready apps, that thing updated day by day. I can counted at least over 100 apps are retina-ready in AppStore, and that is just from their top paid/top free categories. Get your fact straight =)
About the benchmark score, no, it is not change overtime, it change by software update. And in fact, from iOS4 and PBOS1 to iOS5 and PBOS2, javascript performance of iOS always superior than PBOS, and browsermark score always almost double PBOS score.
Don't spin it, just stick with your illusion about those i5 processer and 'True Software' =))Last edited by Vindicators; 03-22-12 at 04:07 AM.
03-22-12 03:58 AMLike 0
- Forum
- BlackBerry PlayBook Forums
- BlackBerry PlayBook
Very long detailed comparison - PB vs. new iPad (hopefully objectiv)
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD