1. Sergeant HCR's Avatar
    Since I got the Playbook, I've had to do the occasional reboot, the browser crashes from time to time, other little hiccups and issues, etc. I immediately give the PB a hard time in my mind wishing that these issues would be fixed. I also think that the iPad likely does not have these issues.

    Although I do not own an iPad, I do own an iPhone 3GS. I came to a realization recently that my iphone isn't perfect either. Although I've been led to believe by superior marketing and hype that Apple product are superior, Safari occasionally crashes, sometimes the iOS feels like its struggling (5.01 JB), needs the occasional reboot, etc etc. But I just ignore and accept the quirks with my iPhone. I don't ignore or easily accept the same on my PB. It is almost like I'm brainwashed to believe Apple products are perfect and if they do not operate 100% all the time it is something we must accept.

    Yes, I do realize a JB iPhone may not be helping, but I only use it for some basic stuff (a handful of free apps and SBSettings)
    03-26-12 07:21 AM
  2. alnamvet68's Avatar
    It's Monday morning, and I'm at a loss for words. Why should I be surprised.
    03-26-12 07:36 AM
  3. jamesbondOO7's Avatar
    I have an iPad and I don't think it is a bad product. I think the UI of the PlayBook is far superior, but I enjoy the iPad.
    I am usually vehemently against Apple, essentially because I think it is totally unfair that they get so much publicity. Their products are fine, but really the competition has a lot to offer, certainly nothing to be ashamed of and are often superior. Now, as far as religious marketing is concerned, nothing comes close, that is for sure. People are usually proud to show they use Apple products. That takes some good marketing.
    03-26-12 07:46 AM
  4. yorkshireman2's Avatar
    You use the term 'brainwash', which I think is particularly apt.

    Over the last few years people DO seem to have been brainwashed regarding all things Apple, and this has created an odd stigma regarding other devices, particularly Blackberry.

    If something is wrong with an Apple device people seem to either think it is their own inadequacy rather than the device, or that it is like that for a special reason only known to Steve Jobs.

    People didn't seem to moan that the initial iPhone/iTouches didn't have cut and paste (amazing but true) or that they didn't have a video camera, or multimedia messaging. Apple were forgiven all of these things. heck, the initial iTouch didn't even have volume control buttons - the only way to do it was on the OS itself. Brainwashed!

    iPad2 users didn't moan that the front and rear cameras were truly terrible. They don't moan that when 'multitasking' was introduced it just wasn't multitasking at all. Brainwashed!

    Apple users don't moan that everything has to go through the clunky iTunes. You can't just copy a file from one device to another.

    Apple users don't moan that the OS on the iPhone and iPad is amazingly clunky in comparison to the Playbook, for example.

    Apple users don't moan that the App Store is literally full to the brim of second rate applications and that only about 1% of the apps are any good at all, and the rest are just poor alternatives to the best of breed app.

    On the flip side, Blackberry users on Crackberry seem to always see the negative and don't always sing the praises what to me is a truly amazing device that is far nicer to use on a daily basis than the iPad, or the Bold 9900 which is just so quick to call people on (short cut keys), get email on (using just your thumb whilst you doing something else with the other hand), or that truly multitasks.

    The problem as I see it is RIM. They are completely to blame. They are absolutely terrible at communicating the features and benefits of the devices and seem to leave it to us loyal Blackberry users to try and explain to others why these devices are so good.

    In addition to poor marketing they pay hardly any attention to customers. Just reaching anyone at RIM is impossible and even if you got through they wouldn't listen ... I mean REALLY listen!

    And then there is the non-existant PR department.

    Apple on the flip side have superb marketing, get a gazillion column inches of positive commentary written about them every day, and actually listen to their customers. Even if they don't always do what customers ask for, at least the customers feel someone is listening.

    And lastly Apple has made technology a fashion. Until RIM realize it isn't all about the technology they will continue to decline.

    I do have an iPad, an iTouch (both of which I now rarely use), a Macbook Pro and two desktops. I also have a Playbook and a Bold 9900 and I can tell you which devices I prefer, even with all their quirks.
    03-26-12 07:48 AM
  5. Sergeant HCR's Avatar
    York enhanced my point, thanks.

    I'm not bashing the PB, I am just saying that me personally shouldn't be quick to judge. and perhaps other should not as well.
    03-26-12 07:55 AM
  6. Reckage's Avatar
    My first experience with Apple products was my first gen ipod touch. Which for the first 10 months I owed it, would take upwards of 12 hours to sync. The problem affected a good portion of ipod touch owners. Since this problem I have not bought any more Apple products.

    What gets me is that Apple has had major issues like this in the past and no one cares. The non functioning wifi on the macbooks a few years back comes to mind. That took a year to fix. The "you are holding it wrong" incident; and so on.

    Gladly I don't suffer from Appleitist.
    03-26-12 08:02 AM
  7. barkomatic's Avatar
    Since I got the Playbook, I've had to do the occasional reboot, the browser crashes from time to time, other little hiccups and issues, etc. I immediately give the PB a hard time in my mind wishing that these issues would be fixed. I also think that the iPad likely does not have these issues.

    Although I do not own an iPad, I do own an iPhone 3GS. I came to a realization recently that my iphone isn't perfect either. Although I've been led to believe by superior marketing and hype that Apple product are superior, Safari occasionally crashes, sometimes the iOS feels like its struggling (5.01 JB), needs the occasional reboot, etc etc. But I just ignore and accept the quirks with my iPhone. I don't ignore or easily accept the same on my PB. It is almost like I'm brainwashed to believe Apple products are perfect and if they do not operate 100% all the time it is something we must accept.

    Yes, I do realize a JB iPhone may not be helping, but I only use it for some basic stuff (a handful of free apps and SBSettings)

    I don't think there is a stigma for non-apple devices. In fact, for awhile it was kinda edgy and cool to be sporting a Android phone or tablet. However, now that those devices are becoming more common that's over. It seems like everyone either has an Android phone or an iPhone. Ironically, if BB10 works out for RIM they could pick up some new customers who are looking for something different to those two alternatives.

    By the way, you're running a jailbroken 3GS so of course Safari is going to crash from time to time. The iPhone wasn't designed to do what you are using if for.
    03-26-12 08:27 AM
  8. madman0141's Avatar
    It is all about personal preference. Some folks are brainwashed by Apple and their marketing some folks are standing by BlackBerry. Both tablets have good and bad points. I usually mock apple products but I have an Ipod. At this site I stand by my Bold 9930 and my 64gig PlayBook.
    03-26-12 08:35 AM
  9. Spencerdl's Avatar
    Let's face it, the "MEDIA" has a great influence on......well everything, and Apple has been the chosen "ONE". Not saying that Apple doesn't make a good product, but ALL products have shortcomings, but the media hype would have you believe that Apple makes a "perfect" product. BlackBerry works for ME.
    shemaree09 and kbz1960 like this.
    03-26-12 08:51 AM
  10. anthogag's Avatar
    People can be brainwashed E.g. those people that buy every product they make like nothing else is good enough
    03-26-12 08:53 AM
  11. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    Thats not entirely true about jailbreaking. You can jailbreak to get admin/root access to the device and it not cause any issues. It is very possible however the application installed after jailbreaking (from non Apple sources) did indeed mess with the device.
    03-26-12 08:59 AM
  12. hpulley's Avatar
    Apple is what most people want and it has a great rep but iOS 5.1 is bad on my wife's iPhone4S, needing more reboots than ever before for network issues and has other bugs too. Latest Lion release on Macs has problems too so even Apple is not perfect.

    I love my Bold and PlayBook even though they do have issues.
    03-26-12 09:08 AM
  13. shemaree09's Avatar
    I agree. Thats why I always give it up to Apple's marketing.

    Their marketing is top notch, making you feel like you have to have an i-product, because you just do.

    Think about apps. Before Apple, nobody cared about an app.

    Now, EVERYthing is centered around an app and HAVING to have one.

    iPod synonymous with the mp3 player
    iPad synonymous with all tablets

    Even their pricing is smart. Think about it. If you pay a premium for something, your gonna feel that is the best out no matter what.

    Anything expensive is going to be wanted and held in high regard.

    The tech geek in me just cant buy electronics based on hype and popularity. Im a specs and functionality kind of girl
    Last edited by shemaree09; 03-26-12 at 09:28 AM.
    03-26-12 09:25 AM
  14. SoCalRedbird's Avatar
    Is there a stigma associated with Blackberry products? You bet.

    As a Playbook and 9810 owner, I cannot tell you how many times I've heard the same comments and seen the same situations play out over and over. I live in Southern California too, where BBs are as rare as unicorns this day in age.

    They usually go like this:

    Playbook:
    "Is that an iPad?"
    "I didn't know Blackberry even HAD a tablet."
    "Why didn't you just get an iPad?

    9810 / OS7 / BB10:
    Me: "Just wait until <insert anticipated device> comes out!"
    "They still make Blackberrys?!?"
    "Why would you waste an upgrade on a BB?"

    It's all good though. I'll keep defending RIM until I feel their products bring nothing to the table. As it stands though, I'm perfectly content defending solid products that ultimately enhance the landscape of mobile communications. I cannot blame the masses for A) not being informed about Blackberry devices, and B) believing that iDevices are the best.
    03-26-12 09:25 AM
  15. slashd0t's Avatar
    My biggest gripe is with the closed minded iUsers... They are so brainwashed that they aren't even willing to see that there are better alternatives... I agree it's all in marketing.. RIM really needs to communicate more what their devices actually do differently and start trying to build desire amount the public that a blackberry device is the device to have..

    I actually quite like the tool not a toy messaging, even if it isnt totally true.. Sending doubt into iphone users minds that they are perceived to be using a toy can have a great psychological effect - especially among the status minded users..
    03-26-12 09:56 AM
  16. anthogag's Avatar
    I think one of the Apple board members is from Avon (or some other large cosmetics business)...that whole world is about making women feel insecure about not looking good enough.

    I think the marketing machine hi-jacked that company. E.g. 99 cent apps = candy
    Last edited by anthogag; 03-26-12 at 10:46 AM.
    03-26-12 10:42 AM
  17. gimpy666's Avatar
    I have an iPhone 3Gs that was given to me and after installing ios 5 the thing turned into a phone with issues. It's slow to boot and freezes. One of my principal uses is getting audio books from the library and now it has lots of problems that it didn't have before. Steve Jobs should have admitted that they screwed up with the antenna in the iPhone 4 and not try to spread their poor engineering as a common problem for all of their competitors. My phone couldn't get a signal but two other people with BlackBerry could on the same network as I use. Anyone who thinks BB support is lousy try calling Apple.
    03-26-12 11:26 AM
  18. BBplaybookJS's Avatar
    Since I got the Playbook, I've had to do the occasional reboot, the browser crashes from time to time, other little hiccups and issues, etc. I immediately give the PB a hard time in my mind wishing that these issues would be fixed. I also think that the iPad likely does not have these issues.

    Although I do not own an iPad, I do own an iPhone 3GS. I came to a realization recently that my iphone isn't perfect either. Although I've been led to believe by superior marketing and hype that Apple product are superior, Safari occasionally crashes, sometimes the iOS feels like its struggling (5.01 JB), needs the occasional reboot, etc etc. But I just ignore and accept the quirks with my iPhone. I don't ignore or easily accept the same on my PB. It is almost like I'm brainwashed to believe Apple products are perfect and if they do not operate 100% all the time it is something we must accept.

    Yes, I do realize a JB iPhone may not be helping, but I only use it for some basic stuff (a handful of free apps and SBSettings)
    Hey brother,greetings from a fellow Newfoundlander. Funny you should mention that. I've always stigmatized iPhone/ipad owners to be honest. I always felt that they were somehow more shallow and dare I say brainwashed into thinking that's the way things had to be done. It is never good to generalize, it wasn't until I came to this website that I realized that reasonable intelligent people could he happy with such a device, but I can't imagine ever being happy doing things the "Apple" way.
    03-26-12 11:34 AM
  19. Gouk's Avatar
    Dear OP,

    It s not Apple's evil doing that you are being brainwashed but it is RIM oversight not to brainwash you first.

    With non existence customer service and half baked products, it is not a wonder why RIM is in the slump nowadays.

    RIM needs to wake up or the user might smack you on the face.
    Snap51 likes this.
    03-26-12 11:43 AM
  20. Tomcat_Alley's Avatar
    Apple is in fashion at the moment, Just as Blackberry was a few years ago and Nokia before that, however, with the 4S and the New iPad being HUGE let downs. favour is beginning to fall, Just like it did with Apple.

    However, while whatever it is that's in fashion is in fashion, those who have them look down upon those with different things. but lets face facts, iOS is so restricted and user friendly (read, proof) that even old folk can use it, and now, old folk are using apple products, i saw an old woman who must have been about 90 playing solitaire on her iPad2 on the train a few weeks back and i immediately thought how uncool the iPad2 looked now.
    It wont be long now before the youth move on to something else to disassociate themselves from what the old folk are doing.
    jamesbondOO7 likes this.
    03-26-12 12:08 PM
  21. Bluemoonjules's Avatar
    In a word....no.

    Stigma, why stigma, just a different choice, like buying Adidas instead of Nike....
    ambarmetta likes this.
    03-26-12 12:10 PM
  22. OttawaGabe's Avatar
    After decades of being 2nd banana Apple has now graduated to the status once held by Micro$oft. So in a way, they're now the evil empire, but they're still riding the reputation of being cool, since they've always been big with the artist crowd.

    Now Google/Android represents the rebellion, just because they're not M$.

    Where does that leave RIM/BB? Unfortunately in the same category as M$. The name and company is so tied to the soulless corporate world, that it's going to take a lot of cool stuff to break that mold.

    You also have to keep in mind that to most non-techies, talking about "how superior the multi-tasking is", just puts a huge NERD sticker on your forehead and the Playbook.
    03-26-12 01:57 PM
  23. torndownunit's Avatar
    People really need to just stop worrying about what other products people are using. And you need to shake the paranoia that other people care about what products you are using. Yes there are Apple users who are brand snobs... but there are a lot of RIM brand snobs as well. They form a small group of people that is going to be more apparent when you are on a product specific forum. The reality is that most people just use what they like to use, for whatever those reasons may be. It doesn't really matter.

    What I can tell you is that I use forums focused on a lot of other brands, and there isn't a single other forum I use where so much time is spent criticizing other people for what products they use. I think people have the misconception that that is what's going on. I use a dozen other forums though, and this forum is pretty unique in that regard. It's amazing the range of insults I see directed towards Apple and Android users on this forum (mainly Apple users).
    03-26-12 02:22 PM
  24. anon(4018671)'s Avatar
    After decades of being 2nd banana Apple has now graduated to the status once held by Micro$oft. So in a way, they're now the evil empire, but they're still riding the reputation of being cool, since they've always been big with the artist crowd.

    Now Google/Android represents the rebellion, just because they're not M$.

    Where does that leave RIM/BB? Unfortunately in the same category as M$. The name and company is so tied to the soulless corporate world, that it's going to take a lot of cool stuff to break that mold.

    You also have to keep in mind that to most non-techies, talking about "how superior the multi-tasking is", just puts a huge NERD sticker on your forehead and the Playbook.
    Thats cause they wouldn't know the difference :P

    I bought a Mac for the integrated monitor and computer, I regret it often. I would not buy an iPad based on owning the computer and can't stand when things are too simple. At least I can load Microsoft and Linux...where a PC can not load Mac OS. Aside from form factor it isn't worth it IMO.

    But you have something important in your post. The iPad is kinda like the peoples computer...so easy to use a senior citizen can use it. (non-techies)

    I like the Tools not Toys but RIM has to step it up a lot! Lookin at you DocsToGo
    03-26-12 02:23 PM
  25. alnamvet68's Avatar
    I don't know that any non-Apple product is a stigma, but after handling an iPad3 at the Apple store earlier today, for 5 minutes or so, my left palm was left with a stigmata thanks to the crematorium level heat generated by that bad boy. Apple really should consider issuing a pair of "Ove Gloves" with the purchase of each 3rd gen iPad. Hmmmm, I may have a winner idea here, Apple logo'd fire/heat retardant iPad3 gloves and market it through Kick Starter.........

    P.S. I wonder if there's a heat shield or a heat sink for the CPU in the iPad3?
    oldtimeBBaddict and Yemson like this.
    03-26-12 02:31 PM
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