[crazy canuck]

if RIM haven't launched by the time their Q4 & Year end investor's call happens next week on the 24th, I suspect it will be a very uncomfortable Q & A session for Jimbo.

If RIM had a bad Q4 they will absolutely announce the Playbook before to downplay their bad quarter. If they had a good Q4 then they can wait and attempt to deflect any Playbook questions based upon their solid Q4.

that's my 2 cents and I am sticking to it...

[kb5zht]

interesting perspective, you have a good point but if the anybody at RIM knows the date now for the initial launch then I am not sure why they would wait for warnings reports to announce it.

We will see.

Imagine how good earnings would be if they had got of their a**es weeks ago and got this thing out so the revenue would show up for Q4.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[sleepngbear]

They usually don't do specific product announcements at an earnings call. You'll get a lot of numbers and highlights of what performed the previous year (and what didn't), and maybe a 30,000-ft strategic view of what they have planned for the coming year. I'd be very surprised if any dates for anything are announced beyond a generic Q1, Q2, Q3 or Q4.

I'm also seeing that earnings are expected to be better than previous estimates. Nothing concrete on that, just analysts' musings.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[kb5zht]

I'm also seeing that earnings are
expected to be better than previous
estimates. Nothing concrete on that,
just analysts' musings.

Wouldn't surprise me. Look at all the money they are saving not undertaking any research & development.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Sirhill]

Expect an announcement on or before the 22nd from RIM regarding the PB (my gut really says on the 22nd) but you all know that this is just my opinion but I feel good about this one. And btw I also have a feeling that the release dat will be on the 18th of April but again this all on a gut feeling.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[sleepngbear]

Wouldn't surprise me. Look at all the money they are saving not undertaking any research & development.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Now that is just patently wrong. New devices don't develop themselves overnight. Everything being rumored right now, and probably many more that will never see the light of day, R&D has been underway on them for at least a year. Come on now, let's try to keep this at least a little bit serious.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[kb5zht]

Now that is just patently wrong. New devices don't develop themselves overnight. Everything being rumored right now, and probably many more that will never see the light of day, R&D has been underway on them for at least a year. Come on now, let's try to keep this at least a little bit serious.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Well I'm sure they are but minimally, or else they wouldn't be over 6 months behind everybody else on smartphone tech and falling behind by the day on this generation of tablets.

Believe me, this is the better scenario because if they were blowing wads of cash and they were where they are at now then their R&D team isn't worth squat.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[_StephenBB81]

Well I'm sure they are but minimally, or else they wouldn't be over 6 months behind everybody else on smartphone tech and falling behind by the day on this generation of tablets.

Believe me, this is the better scenario because if they were blowing wads of cash and they were where they are at now then their R&D team isn't worth squat.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I'd love to have your crystal ball, and see all the things you see.

this "being behind" everyone in smartphone tech has little to do with R&D and a lot to do with Hardware partnerships,

R&D would be spent mixing and matching components to provide a uniform platform, we also Know that RIM spent heavily on R&D with Marvell only to later drop them and move to TI for the Playbook, that would certainly result in further R&D spending to play catch up.

On the Development side of things BES/BIS have both had advancements, RIM has clearly been looking at Cloud services and opening up software API's
RIM is developing 2 OS's right now, a QNX and an evolutionary OS6, we don't know how much that development over laps

AND in the Smartphone game, RIM still has the smallest number of Employee's they are the little guy.

[dcgore]

We can only hope for the best

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Wouldn't surprise me. Look at all the money they are saving not undertaking any research & development.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

This is the most absurd thing I've seen you say, and believe me there have been some doosey's. No R&D?? RIM showed an LTE device over two years ago at WES. 2yrs ahead of others. As Nifty said, do you think these devices test & develop themselves? The new touch w/final HW at Verizon, it just built, tested and shipped itself there.
What you fail to see obviously is RIM doesn't feel the need to be at the very leading edge of technology with everything they do. There's more to RIM than just the latest & greatest. When you have such esteemed clientele such as RIM, there are many more important things than having the absolute newest tech. Does it hurt? No. But it's not everything. Why have a brand new device that has an 8mp camera, front facing camera, 1GHz snapdragon, & LTE when you only get 5 hours of usage out of it. Again, some things are more important.

Now that is just patently wrong. New devices don't develop themselves overnight. Everything being rumored right now, and probably many more that will never see the light of day, R&D has been underway on them for at least a year. Come on now, let's try to keep this at least a little bit serious.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Agreed

[sf49ers]

Wouldn't surprise me. Look at all the money they are saving not undertaking any research & development.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Don't talk off your ***, RIM spends more money in R&D than most it's competitors do and you may not realize it as most of it is behind the scenes such as the BES, MVS, BIS, security, datacenters etc and last but not the least the phone OS, new devices, native apps etc.

Nokia's R&D Budget Waaaaay Bigger Than Competition

If you have listened to the last quarter earnings call you will know how much portion of their profits they have allocated for brand promotion and the playbook marketing. The % is so high even some of the analysts were surprised with proposed spending on the marketing. They are listening and coming back as never before and it is evident with the playbook, new BES and BIS versions, top quality native apps, cloud based apps like blackberry protect, upgraded devices and the upgraded OS 6.1 and at the same time laying a foundation for transition to the new phone OS in the midst of a cut throat competition.

[mcjohn]

Wouldn't surprise me. Look at all the money they are saving not undertaking any research & development.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I'm pretty sure they spent a pretty high penny buying QNX and TAT.

[kb5zht]

This is the most absurd thing I've seen you say, and believe me there have been some doosey's. No R&D?? RIM showed an LTE device over two years ago at WES. 2yrs ahead of others. As Nifty said, do you think these devices test & develop themselves? The new touch w/final HW at Verizon, it just built, tested and shipped itself there.
What you fail to see obviously is RIM doesn't feel the need to be at the very leading edge of technology with everything they do. There's more to RIM than just the latest & greatest. When you have such esteemed clientele such as RIM, there are many more important things than having the absolute newest tech. Does it hurt? No. But it's not everything. Why have a brand new device that has an 8mp camera, front facing camera, 1GHz snapdragon, & LTE when you only get 5 hours of usage out of it. Again, some things are more important.

we will just have to agree to disagree.

the eroding marketshare that RIM is experiencing shows that an increasing part of the consumer base disagrees with you too.

RIM is getting their growth from overseas, and that will support them short term, until the competition gets over there and provides their consumers with options.

By the way... JP Morgan dropped the requirement for its employees to use blackberries over a growing disatisfaction with them and an expressed interest in having more "up to date" devices. Keep your fingers crossed RIM gets their act together soon.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[grover5]

we will just have to agree to disagree.

the eroding marketshare that RIM is experiencing shows that an increasing part of the consumer base disagrees with you too.

RIM is getting their growth from overseas, and that will support them short term, until the competition gets over there and provides their consumers with options.

By the way... JP Morgan dropped the requirement for its employees to use blackberries over a growing disatisfaction with them and an expressed interest in having more "up to date" devices. Keep your fingers crossed RIM gets their act together soon.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Since when is the competition not overseas? I'm pretty sure most of the competition lives there.

[kb5zht]

Since when is the competition not overseas? I'm pretty sure most of the competition lives there.

Not really. Ask some of the forum posters here.

Besides, if iphones, htc's and droids were there in strength why do you suppose they are taking marketshare from RIM here but not there?


A few years ago 90% of the phones Verizon sold were blackberries. Last year it was 20%. Projections are this year it will be down to 10%.

[missing_K-W]

Not really. Ask some of the forum posters here.

Besides, if iphones, htc's and droids were there in strength why do you suppose they are taking marketshare from RIM here but not there?


A few years ago 90% of the phones Verizon sold were blackberries. Last year it was 20%. Projections are this year it will be down to 10%.

Well who else was offering a solution as RIM a few years ago? Palm as they were fading to dust? Those figures you state should be put into context....RIM had no competition a few years ago on Verizon to the degree it does now. Enter anroid army of handsets and the Iphone...and it's only makes sense the market share would decrease...to put it in perspective. Your posts tend to state foggy facts...try putting things into perspective..into context and relative terms....RIM receeding in NA, may also be seen as a good catalyst to launch a new platform on HH's...they have finished their 1st life cycle of offerings in NA and have plateaued....Apple is an infant with 4 years on the market and Android is a new born

RIm is currently restructuring , and will build a platform in their 2nd life cycle that fills in the gaps and limitations of the competitions offerings. Rim is already forging partnerships with HP,Micrrosoft and Google...these companies are fully aware of what RIM is working on and they are obviously alligning with rim because they are fully aware RIM has a footing in enterprise that won't be breached....it is a sign of surrender to those who are aware of the strategic allignments being forged...Think to yourself why a company such as Nokia would approach Rim for an OS/platform partnership. RIM has the best foundation moving forward...IP,network,software engineering,and carrier footprint moving forward...they have 570 global carrier partnerships...of which many are in their infancy waiting to explode as far as market cap goes!

Soon we will have a platform/ecosystem offering that will possibly become " google certified" , at least support a wealth of Google offerings....Microsoft is forging the foundation of a long term partnership bringing offerings to rim that will only solidify RIMs mark in enterprise....HP is in the process of working in partnership with RIM to bring collective enterprise/consumer offerings. While Apple may be forging ahead with threatening offerings as far as competition go! The truth is Apple is app driven...QNX is "POSIX certified" 95% of ios apps can be ported to the QNX platform...
To the extent that occurs remains to be seen...however...any app offering Apple offers that is "NEEDED" on the platform can and will be ported!

RIM sits atop of the throne as far as mobile computing offerings go! No other mobile hardware/software provider has the reach as far as sheer magnitude goes...QNX is the only current platform on Earth that has universal reach.....such as Medical,aerospace, millitary, Industry,automotive...government etc! And by this I mean sheer mobile communications reach! Absorb the gravity of that! To those that are aware...RIM has literally boxed the competition in.....as far as universal reach goes...the above companies I mentioned above that are forging strategic partnerships with RIm are aware of this...and hence why it should come as no surprise...

QNX offerings from RIm will be the quickest platform to "ADAPT" to the changing and evolving tech world moving forward! And by leaps and bounds over the competiton...the competition is already seeking partnerships with RIM...not the other way around...sorry if I can't sum this up in an easy to read context....however I don't have the time or space for a novel

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[grover5]

Not really. Ask some of the forum posters here.

Besides, if iphones, htc's and droids were there in strength why do you suppose they are taking marketshare from RIM here but not there?


A few years ago 90% of the phones Verizon sold were blackberries. Last year it was 20%. Projections are this year it will be down to 10%.

Ask some of the forum posters? Which ones are going to tell me HTC, Samsung, Sony Erickson, and Nokia are North American companies? I'm pretty sure droids and iphones are in the UK, Europe, Asia and all other points on the map in strength. BB is #1 in the UK I believe. Maybe they don't want what you want. Weird right? I am going away now...this is interrupting my basketball viewing...good luck with your angst.

[kb5zht]

Well who else was offering a solution as RIM a few years ago? Palm as they were fading to dust? Those figures you state should be put into context....RIM had no competition a few years ago on Verizon to the degree it does now. Enter anroid army of handsets and the Iphone...and it's only makes sense the market share would decrease...to put it in perspective. Your posts tend to state foggy facts...try putting things into perspective..into context and relative terms....RIM receeding in NA, may also be seen as a good catalyst to launch a new platform on HH's...they have finished their 1st life cycle of offerings in NA and have plateaued....Apple is an infant with 4 years on the market and Android is a new born

RIm is currently restructuring , and will build a platform in their 2nd life cycle that fills in the gaps and limitations of the competitions offerings. Rim is already forging partnerships with HP,Micrrosoft and Google...these companies are fully aware of what RIM is working on and they are obviously alligning with rim because they are fully aware RIM has a footing in enterprise that won't be breached....it is a sign of surrender to those who are aware of the strategic allignments being forged...Think to yourself why a company such as Nokia would approach Rim for an OS/platform partnership. RIM has the best foundation moving forward...IP,network,software engineering,and carrier footprint moving forward...they have 570 global carrier partnerships...of which many are in their infancy waiting to explode as far as market cap goes!

Soon we will have a platform/ecosystem offering that will possibly become " google certified" , at least support a wealth of Google offerings....Microsoft is forging the foundation of a long term partnership bringing offerings to rim that will only solidify RIMs mark in enterprise....HP is in the process of working in partnership with RIM to bring collective enterprise/consumer offerings. While Apple may be forging ahead with threatening offerings as far as competition go! The truth is Apple is app driven...QNX is "POSIX certified" 95% of ios apps can be ported to the QNX platform...
To the extent that occurs remains to be seen...however...any app offering Apple offers that is "NEEDED" on the platform can and will be ported!

RIM sits atop of the throne as far as mobile computing offerings go! No other mobile hardware/software provider has the reach as far as sheer magnitude goes...QNX is the only current platform on Earth that has universal reach.....such as Medical,aerospace, millitary, Industry,automotive...government etc! And by this I mean sheer mobile communications reach! Absorb the gravity of that! To those that are aware...RIM has literally boxed the competition in.....as far as universal reach goes...the above companies I mentioned above that are forging strategic partnerships with RIm are aware of this...and hence why it should come as no surprise...

QNX offerings from RIm will be the quickest platform to "ADAPT" to the changing and evolving tech world moving forward! And by leaps and bounds over the competiton...the competition is already seeking partnerships with RIM...not the other way around...sorry if I can't sum this up in an easy to read context....however I don't have the time or space for a novel

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I'm not going to scour the forums to find the name of who it was but I've heard from more than one European poster its hard to find droids and iphones over there.

And you made my point perfectly- by "putting it into context"- back when there wasn't much competition here- that is to say, not much choice- blackberries did better.

Now even corporate entities like JP Morgan, via pressure from employees, is backing off the bb-exclusive policies because, by all records, they are tired of being forced to use yesterday's technology. Recently rim's "bit we are more secure" claim to fame was tarnished when they had to start telling OS 6 users to turn javascript off.

Look its just a product, you guys need to quit being such diehard loyalists over a consumer item. RIM aren't the gods of Olympus and blackberries aren't ambrosia. If there wasn't something wrong with their business model, why the need since the midpoint of last year to change?

My biggest point is that they need to change, they say they are going to change, and it seems they aren't going far to put those actions into words. You 5 or 6 die hard fanatics on these forums can spout fantasy all you want but it doesn't mean it magically becomes reality. We have all heard "soon" and "going to eventually" comments ad naseum for months now while every article I read is "xoom versus ipad" and ocassionally an honorable mention award goes to RIM (without naming the playbook) and Samsung, and a few other up and coming tablets.

Just a nickle's worth of free advice, you guys remind us all of the star treck nerds living in their mom's basement wrapping their life around a TV show while real life goes on above ground.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Skeevecr]

I'm not going to scour the forums to find the name of who it was but I've heard from more than one European poster its hard to find droids and iphones over there.

Beyond the first one, iphone has been on pretty much every network at launch so there hasn't been any lack of availability of it in europe, people know what they do and are choosing them in great numbers, but they are choosing a lot of blackberries too and in some countries more blackberries.

As far as droids, maybe whoever said they didn't see them much was talking specifically about motorola who seem to be far less common in europe than the likes of htc, samsung, lg and noname carrier-branded models.

In europe and elsewhere you still also have a significant share of the market for symbian so if anything the market is actually more competitive than in the states where it is basically only a 3-way competition.

And you made my point perfectly- by "putting it into context"- back when there wasn't much competition here- that is to say, not much choice- blackberries did better.

It isn't all about market-share though, even if that is nice to have, people are still choosing to buy blackberries in vast numbers even if their growth in the states has plateaued recently, they have a smaller slice of a much bigger pie.

Rim are clearly aware that they need to step things up to improve in the states and are making the right moves to at least get back into the mainstream part of the high-end smartphone market with the os6.1 devices and then following things up with qnx-based devices next year which would presumably also be a fair jump in specs from those devices.

We have all heard "soon" and "going to eventually" comments ad naseum for months now while every article I read is "xoom versus ipad" and ocassionally an honorable mention award goes to RIM (without naming the playbook) and Samsung, and a few other up and coming tablets.

I don't think it is at all unreasonable for the focus to be xoom vs ipad, it is the same size as the ipad, the same size of tablet as the ipad and the first android 3.0 device in the stores, not to mention the obvious point that these are also the ones that have spent huge amounts of money on marketing since their hardware is on sale.

Just a nickle's worth of free advice, you guys remind us all of the star treck nerds living in their mom's basement wrapping their life around a TV show while real life goes on above ground.

Are you acquainted with the phrase 'people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones' as somebody who spends so much time on a messageboard related to a particular company or product just to whine about what that company isn't doing isn't in any position to be mocking anyone else.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

we will just have to agree to disagree.

the eroding marketshare that RIM is experiencing shows that an increasing part of the consumer base disagrees with you too.

RIM is getting their growth from overseas, and that will support them short term, until the competition gets over there and provides their consumers with options.

By the way... JP Morgan dropped the requirement for its employees to use blackberries over a growing disatisfaction with them and an expressed interest in having more "up to date" devices. Keep your fingers crossed RIM gets their act together soon.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

You're getting "upgrading" hardware confused with being on the absolute leading edge of technology, as I said. Of course RIM's sales went down with Verizon, as they're the worlds number 1 carrier of Android devices, and there's tons of competition overseas. The best selling phone in the world, the iPhone is sold there as well as other Android devices, and BlackBerry does just fine.
As for any thread where I "back peddled" (yes I can see the post), please do tell. I've been around here for a long time, and have provided great info over the years. If you don't know already, things change quickly in this industry. And I've surely been right more than I've been wrong. You can take that to the bank.

As for your statement. Well obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but to say something that's so melodramatic such as RIM not undertaking any R&D is just crazy. No company does that. If you knew anything about RIM you would know they bend over backwards for their Carrier Partners and are in constant communication with them during their R&D phase of new device dev. Instead you want to act like they're just sitting around on their hands, then they're going to slap so HW into a design and then just ship it off for sale. That's the very definition of absurd.
While I can certainly understand why you are & have been critical of RIM, saying that is taking it a little too far and if you would step back and actually look at that statement for what it says(maybe not exactly what you meant) I think you would agree.

[Skeevecr]

While I can certainly understand why you are & have been critical of RIM, saying that is taking it a little too far and if you would step back and actually look at that statement for what it says(maybe not exactly what you meant) I think you would agree.

It has reached the point where he has gone well beyond balanced criticisms into the realms of self-parody.

[Rickroller]

It has reached the point where he has gone well beyond balanced criticisms into the realms of self-parody.

Everyone can criticize kb5zht all they want about "melodramatic" posts and this and that..but from all his posts i've read, it seems to me he is the voice of the loyal RIM clientelle who is sick and tired of RIM's seemingly lack of anything at this point. Be it marketing, delivering of products, broken promises, promises of change etc. Do you all honestly think his thoughts aren't being reflected across the entire tech nation? Because I can guarantee you..they are. I've got a close circle of friends..and we were ALL sporting BB's for the past 3-5 years. Now? Nada. Everyone has moved on..be it to Android or iPhone. Does this mean we will never be back? Hardly..but at the rate RIM's moving..it will be a long while.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Everyone can criticize kb5zht all they want about "melodramatic" posts and this and that..but from all his posts i've read, it seems to me he is the voice of the loyal RIM clientelle who is sick and tired of RIM's seemingly lack of anything at this point. Be it marketing, delivering of products, broken promises, promises of change etc. Do you all honestly think his thoughts aren't being reflected across the entire tech nation? Because I can guarantee you..they are. I've got a close circle of friends..and we were ALL sporting BB's for the past 3-5 years. Now? Nada. Everyone has moved on..be it to Android or iPhone. Does this mean we will never be back? Hardly..but at the rate RIM's moving..it will be a long while.

I agree Rick, for the most part and said just as much in my post. I certainly see how & why he has been critical of RIM. However saying RIM isn't doing any R&D is is just trying to save that money is going overboard. Other than that, I don't much have a problem with any of his criticisms of RIM.

[grover5]

I have a problem with the suggestion that RIM is late with a product that they said would release by the end of quarter 1 and quarter 1 is not over yet. That critique is false. I would also say to anyone who left BB for another platform for a more robust experience, what do you think the acquisition of QNX was in response too? Everyone knows it will take time to develop the HHs but still bemoan the schedule daily. Everyone knows RIM is addressing their shortcomings but still ridicule them as if they are not. Even when it became increasingly clear the playbook was one of the top if not the top tablet coming out people found reasons to suggest it will be inferior. I think some folks will complain no matter what. That is the role they have fallen into.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Sirhill]

I have a problem with the suggestion that RIM is late with a product that they said would release by the end of quarter 1 and quarter 1 is not over yet. That critique is false. I would also say to anyone who left BB for another platform for a more robust experience, what do you think the acquisition of QNX was in response too? Everyone knows it will take time to develop the HHs but still bemoan the schedule daily. Everyone knows RIM is addressing their shortcomings but still ridicule them as if they are not. Even when it became increasingly clear the playbook was one of the top if not the top tablet coming out people found reasons to suggest it will be inferior. I think some folks will complain no matter what. That is the role they have fallen into.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I agree with you 100%. As for the PB being late I know that it will be and I am ok with that. Yes I would have liked for it to already be in the market but I also would want RIM to get this completely right as well. This way all of the dumb bloggers will have nothing to say when it does come out but good things (although I know there will still be some bad reviews on it cause that's just how some bloggers will see it). I still think that the PB will crush all other tabs all due to its OS and the fact that I know that RIM/QNX and all of the engineers have been putting crazy amount of time to deliver one outstanding device.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com