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  1. n8ter#AC's Avatar
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    #176  

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    Quote Originally Posted by zorecati View Post
    The pot actually called the kettle black, so you posted an image of the wrong object.

    He's right though.

    "I did it, and it's fine therefore it doesn't exist" is a terrible retort.

    WP7.5 had a critical bug where if you use Internet Sharing it bugged your WiFi to the point where your phone would use your data connection even if your WiFi was turned on and connected. People who never used the tethering feature (T-Mobile gave us that for free, they didn't want to pay on their other carriers) chimed in with flames saying we were just trying to trash the platform.

    That's what the above sounds like.

    Over-Life performance degradation really doesn't exist on any decent PC, which even a cheap eMachines can be considered these days compared to what was being sold in stores 5-6 years ago. Hasn't really been an issue since XP. Vista and 7 solved that for the most part, especially with things like Windows Defender and Microsoft Security Essentials being either built-in or preloaded on so many PCs to stop the real culprits from causing issues.

    I haven't had even an Android device (granted I've only really bought high end devices, anyways, not low-mid range but those are spec-competitive with the best blackberries these days anyways) degrade in performance over time, and I certainly haven't had an iOS or Windows Phone device do that.

    The only time I expect to factory reset a device is:

    1. If I do a major FW upgrade (full OS upgrade i.e. Android GB to ICS or WP7 NoDo to Mango) and the update process doesn't do it itself. This is mostly out of habit, though, but since orphan settings can sometimes cause issues I do it to save myself potential troubleshooting time. I typically don't backup and restore anything as it can restore problem files back onto the device. It's too easy to find and reinstall the apps you need.

    2. If the device is broke (software-wise) and doesn't boot properly. In that case, most devices hae a 2-3 HW button method to reset the device.

    3. If I'm selling or giving the device to someone else, to make sure all of my information is off of it. The Reset Process can reformat all the storage in one go and restore everything to factory defaults.

    I don't reset devices for performance degradation because:

    1. I haven't had a PC or device do that in over half a decade and,

    2. I would simply return the product or avoid buying it. For example when BB10 launches if I hear anything about devices degrading in performance a few months after launch I would simply not consider it. This is how these things work in the real world.
  2. n8ter#AC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robsteve View Post
    I have to do it many times with a PC. It was the typical response from technical support if they could not solve a problem. Over the years an industry developed to find these problems on the PC and fix them without doing a reformat and reinstall of the OS.

    Prior to a Windows system I uses a SCO UNIX for a number of years and that system also benefited from the equivalent of a wipe and reload. Eventually software tools came around to negate that, but they were quite expensive.

    What we are missing are the third party tools to tune our QNX system. They may have to be done by RIM themselves because of security concerns, as they would require root access.
    Tech Support tells you that because it gets you off the phone. You cannot get support for a PC that isn't operations, which yours won't be if you are restoring it from a recovery partition (this can take 30-40 minutes) nevermind having to reload all of your software on it (this can take potentially hours, especially if you had a lot of digitally downloaded software/games - every piece of software is potentially the culprit to your issue) and even then your PC is borderline unusable until you get all the drivers loaded and updated, assuming you're not using crap like integraded graphics and the like.

    They know a full system wipe will fix the issue, even if only temporarily, and allow them to move on to the next call. It's a quick and easy way for them to mark an issue as "resolved." Carriers do the same thing with smartphones. All tech companies do that, for the exact same reason.

    PCs should not degrade in performance. I haven't had that happen since before XP and even on Windows 2000 I had PCs that never needed to be reloaded due to performance degradation (mostly due to user error since I used to dual and triple boot some machines with Linux and "**** happens sometimes").

    I'm sure SCO UNIX was at 2000 level back then, but things are different now. No one cares what you had to do years ago (we had decades old HP UX Workstations on the destroyer where I was stationed, I maintained them, and reloading them was never needed - they ran 24/7/365and were used heavily). We're talking about now. No one should expect to have to reload a Windows, Mac, Linux, or Solaris workstation unless they were insanely negligent or loaded too many resident apps on an underspecced machine.

    Yes, having everything and the kitchen sink loading a service on your PC will slow it down. If you want to do that, get more RAM and a faster hard drive cause your PC will be accessing both quite a bit and RAM can be quite finite in some situations.
  3. n8ter#AC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mawil1013 View Post
    What issue? The issue is properly maintaining an OS. Loading up on Apps, deleting Apps, running maximum open programs, etc and you'll bog every known OS.
    For example, Android will automatically clear out apps that you haven't used to free up resources, so on even mid-range devices you won't have this issue unless you're in some cases running out of storage space.

    Windows Phone doesn't do this due to the way it multi-tasks, ditto for iOS.

    Windows PCs will swap out data that isn't in used to make room for fresh data, and Linux/Mac PCs do this as well. Given the type of specs the average PC or Notebook has these days, it would take dozens of full (REAL) apps to bog down a Windows PC. It does not happen unless you're running something like Multiple Game clients on one PC (which take up 500MB-2GB RAM each) while running apps in the background. Additionally, the problem is instantly solved by simply closing some apps to free up resources. The issue the OP is having with the playbook is wholly different from this scenario that you're pushing here...

    Installing apps doesn't BOG an OS down. When Apps load services that can take up resources, but non-active services can be slept and much of their data can be swapped out of RAM if needed, anyways. Installed Apps that just sit there have no impact on OS performance beyond what file system degradation they may cause by taking up space (and fragmentation, for those too lazy to schedule automatic defragment on Windows, nevermind the newer NTFS versions handle that a lot better than i.e. FAT32 on Windows 98, anyways...).

    As I posted earlier, an OS needs to be cleaned up occasionally, wipe and reload only the Apps you actually use, configure the Apps to control how much they can automatically activate in the background.
    That's not correct. Simply uninstalling those Apps should take care of that issue. You're taking a long and rather ******** route to arrive at a goal that should be easily taken care of in 5 minutes or less. Uninstall the apps, their services go with them. The only thing you may have to deal with are orphan files and folders, which aren't hard to get rid of with any elementary-level file manager and only affect FS performance in the way I described above, which is wholly different from OS performance.

    Even BB10 will lag if not taken care of. We live with the fact that Apple and Windows OS's need care to clean up useless junk after loading and deleting and programs setting temp and other crap all over the place but someone wants a Table to work perfectly without any input or care or responsible ownership?
    Orphan Files and Folders do not degrade performance to any noticeable level, and by that I'm talking about merely filesystem performance, because unused files and settings simply do not affect Operating System performance - ever. Registry size on Windows is not nearly the issue it once was, and I doubt it's an issue at all given the types of apps I've installed (Visual Studio, Office, etc.), but tools like CCleaner can take care of that in the click of a button.

    Temporary Internet files and caches, again, do not affect Operating system performance beyond the file system performance degradation they may cause, and Internet Explorer 8/9 has a setting to delete all of that when you close the browser (as does, IIRC, Firefox and Opera not sure about Chrome and Safari).

    You have no idea what you're talking about.

    Like I said in earlier post. I've been running Windows for decades and used RHEL3/4/5 extensively (for work purposes, on it's own decent machine not a dual boot) and neither of those ever exhibited any OS performance degradation for me. The people who have issues with that are the people negligent enough to get malware on their machines, which is easily prevented by not being a browser fanboy and simply using IE9 on a Machine loaded with any lightweight decent AV product like Microsoft Security Essentials. Trust me Chrome and FF aren't faster by any noticeable measure and since you installed yet another app on your PC you aren't really helping the issue you think exists, aren't you?

    It's not hard to set up automatic (Scheduled) Updates, AV Scans, Defragmentations/ScanDisks, etc. on Windows. It's trivial on Vista/7 compared to XP and before. It's much easier to set up backups on those OSes as well. Those things (Malware, Fragmentation, Disk Errors, Missing updates that may fix real performance issues in the actual OS binary files) are way more important than some wasted disk space from some installed apps or temp files that otherwise do nothing and oftentimes load nothing.

    And you can use MSConfig to disable apps from loading nevermind the Services panel can be used to stop those as well, for those who care.

    Any user who sits here and tries to explain how an OS gets bogged down and degrades in performance should theoretically be intelligent and well-informed enough to know how to prevent these issues, which are easily preventable. But you're just spouting B.S.
    Last edited by N8ter; 08-01-2012 at 09:36 AM.
  4. robsteve's Avatar
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    #179  

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    Quote Originally Posted by N8ter View Post

    PCs should not degrade in performance. I haven't had that happen since before XP and even on Windows 2000 I had PCs that never needed to be reloaded due to performance degradation (mostly due to user error since I used to dual and triple boot some machines with Linux and "**** happens sometimes").

    I'm sure SCO UNIX was at 2000 level back then, but things are different now. No one cares what you had to do years ago (we had decades old HP UX Workstations on the destroyer where I was stationed, I maintained them, and reloading them was never needed - they ran 24/7/365and were used heavily). We're talking about now. No one should expect to have to reload a Windows, Mac, Linux, or Solaris workstation unless they were insanely negligent or loaded too many resident apps on an underspecced machine.

    Yes, having everything and the kitchen sink loading a service on your PC will slow it down. If you want to do that, get more RAM and a faster hard drive cause your PC will be accessing both quite a bit and RAM can be quite finite in some situations.
    You realize I was replying to a post that said they hadn't had to do it in 27 years? I just thought that was unrealistic from my experience since the 1980's.

    In regards to your HP-UX, it was there for a reason and the military probably had the budget to have all the tools to keep it running smoothly. In the case of SCO Unix, the third party tools were quite expensive for a small business, when a simple dump and load back from tape would achieve the same thing (defrag).
  5. digtech's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #180  

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    Quote Originally Posted by varunsain View Post
    This is going to be never ending.. such a crap thread.. where's the op? what's the status with your lag?
    Again you don't have to participate. Especially if you are perpetuating the thread by adding insignificant commentary.... Anyway I' ve decided not to go through with the wipe yet, i have too much at stake. I have a couple games incomplete at the moment... Nova 2, modern combat, air attack, robotek, radiant defense, cut the rope, angry bird space to name a few. Ill have to start from scratch so ill continue being handicapped perhaps another solution will come about.
  6. JasW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digtech View Post
    Again you don't have to participate. Especially if you are perpetuating the thread by adding insignificant commentary.... Anyway I' ve decided not to go through with the wipe yet, i have too much at stake. I have a couple games incomplete at the moment... Nova 2, modern combat, air attack, robotek, radiant defense, cut the rope, angry bird space to name a few. Ill have to start from scratch so ill continue being handicapped perhaps another solution will come about.
    Heh, I can bet you're never going to get around to wiping with all of those unfinished games. Happily, the only game I had gotten deeply into was Plants vs. Zombies, and I had left off playing it a month or so ago anyway.

    But you point up the problem -- anybody whose PB has degraded and who is into gaming on their PB is squarely positioned between the proverbial rock and a hard place.

    It's somewhat ironic the majority of those few "big name" apps RIM was able to get on the PB are actually games.
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    #182  

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    Quote Originally Posted by sashlon View Post
    Funny, I've never had to COMPLETLY WIPE either my PC, my Windows tablet, or my wife's IPad to correct an issue. Once again, such a solution is unactable and not really defensible either TBH.
    Quote Originally Posted by JasW View Post
    Frankly, the only crap here is from people who either claim that there is no lag/clunkiness problem with any extant PB or, more insidiously, claim that it's no big deal to have to wipe a PB to correct that problem.

    Echoing sashlon, in the 27 years I have owned innumerable PCs, I have never -- NEVER -- had to "wipe"/reformat any of them to correct a problem. Nor have I had to wipe any of my BBs for that matter.

    Anyone who suggests that this is an acceptable and innocuous solution is, well, full of crap themselves.
    Guys, you should try a factory reset.. It's not that hard.. But then I don't expect anyone of you to have any decent data backup or knowledge or know how to get it done..

    Stop behaving like it's a taboo. It's a given feature.. just learn to use it.. It's called system maintenance.. Over time any PC collects clutter but you guys seem like the ones for whom 5-10gb of clutter doesn't matter because you don't even know it exists. Old, legacy software should be removed in it's entirety (deep cleaning of files), deletion of displaced files.. all these are basic security loop holes waiting to be exploited.. But you don't care.

    5-10GB hard disk space costs money.. But you don't care.. It's intangible.. Registration key files impose load on memory.. but you can obviously afford to swap your RAM instead.. Having 4 cores instead of dual-core seems to hide all these underlying issues.. but you pay a price for it.. spend money on stuff you don't need because you don't want to learn how to reset your operating system.

    It's a very simple process. You don't even need an external hard disk if you ever cared about partitions.. but Apple is trying to make the world forget that partitions exist for the good. It's an inexpensive way of system maintenance. But you don't care..

    A faster, smoother, secured & enhanced operating system at the cost of 4 hours a month! I guess it's worth it. But you obviously have shelled out some pennies for extended technical support.

    Funny how someone blamed the technical support for incompetency shown in formatting a computer.. You expect the tech support to examine each one of your registry entry, installed files, system files, etc to a zillion file to isolate the error?

    Quote Originally Posted by digtech View Post
    Again you don't have to participate. Especially if you are perpetuating the thread by adding insignificant commentary.... Anyway I' ve decided not to go through with the wipe yet, i have too much at stake. I have a couple games incomplete at the moment... Nova 2, modern combat, air attack, robotek, radiant defense, cut the rope, angry bird space to name a few. Ill have to start from scratch so ill continue being handicapped perhaps another solution will come about.
    Funny, If RIM worked on a DM upgrade to restore 'Saved games' you would be the first popping in to degrade them and the device for being a PlayStation copy and not focusing on business strategy.

    I'm interested in knowing your poa when the OS2.1 upgrade is out.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasW View Post
    But you point up the problem -- anybody whose PB has degraded and who is into gaming on their PB is squarely positioned between the proverbial rock and a hard place.

    It's somewhat ironic the majority of those few "big name" apps RIM was able to get on the PB are actually games.
    It's actually RIM who's more in that position - Spend Millions to develop their systems.. Or Spend Millions to advertise on what's already available.

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    Yea the more i thought about it the more i realised what id be loosing. I cannot afford to loose all that saved data. Acquired game levels and achievements that ive spent hours unlocking as well as the unfinished ones as well. Id have to spend days in App world re downloading all those apps + zinio magazines and kobo books.. Sigh (not the fastest internet in the world here). Ill continue being handicapped until a better solution comes about. Perhaps 2.1 will remedy the problem?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Playbook's UI overall laggs unbearably!-img_00000653.jpg  
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    Quote Originally Posted by varunsain View Post
    Funny, If RIM worked on a DM upgrade to restore 'Saved games' you would be the first popping in to degrade them and the device for being a PlayStation copy and not focusing on business strategy.
    I'd actually welcome a feature of that sort. That or a cloud storage that would protect my app data. I don't mind all the attention that the playbook gets from the gaming industry, as much as i would like it to have more business oriented apps ... I cannot complain.
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    Digtech I know what you saying.. All features are welcome!

    You just need to be a bit more specific on your lag issues. Browser lag, Application lag, PIM Lag, Bridge Lag, OS Lag.. seen it all.. But they all get rectified..

    Disable Javascript and Flash. Clear all browser data.
    Application Lag, remove unwanted Android apps. Some working Android apps cause issues because of the runtime.
    PIM Lag, remove multiple e-mails and re-sync individually.
    Bridge lag, reinstall bridge.. repair the devices through setup.
    OS lag, do multiple hard reboots. one hard reboot might solve a certain issue but not all.. do a random combination of resets, hard reboots and shut downs.. if you notice your system has improved performance, try not to reboot or shut down device. Avoid low battery.

    Keep ram cleared and avoid using browser in combination with running applications. The browser is not yet 'memory optimized'.

    Avoid running Android applications simultaneously with native media applications. Android has different folder structure and native media is a different structure. If you have excess of content, they both will try to be read causing read error and therefore lag.

    Remove all the unwanted files from the Playbook.. Pirated videos, mp3 files and images downloaded from the internet.. Organize them in correct folders and make sure all files are proper. Video files that cannot generate thumbnails will induce lag.. Android apps tend to download random data. delete all that from 'Misc' folder..

    Sometimes, if you run an android app.. like maybe Skype.. it's not yet made for the playbook.. it loads up some random commands on the playbook and the device goes in a state where commands and request are kept pending forever because like I mentioned.. it's an rtos and needs time based commands.. so it will endless push for approval even though no ones listening.. so once if you execute this app.. only a hard reboot will get you out of it..

    Here, these are something that I can add without doing a security wipe. I have a 32GB playbook and I know what it feels to reload the data so I do avoid a security wipe. But above all, a laggy, unproductive device is not acceptable.

    Playbook's UI overall laggs unbearably!-pb-apps.png
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  11. JasW's Avatar
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    FYI, I finally restored the music that had been removed from my PB when I did the security wipe. It took about 4 hours and left 4.4 GB free on my 64GB (aside from a few apps, I don't have any videos or docs and just a few photos).

    While the PB is still better than it was before the wipe, I did notice a slight increase in sluggishness when initially typing with the keyboard on a website like CB.

    So there may be some correlation between how much storage space is used and lag. The only thing that's different now between my pre- and post-wipe PB is that I only have two sideloaded Android apps -- Kindle and NY Times -- whereas before the wipe I had 7 or 8.
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    Wow-I am quite dismayed at all of the negative responses the OP is getting. He was not hateful in any way, just pointing out issues he is having with his PB. I am experiencing the exact same thing. You tolerate it for a while, and then you can only live with it for so long. The OP clearly stated he's not going anywhere-he's sticking with BB, as am I. But I agree that the UI gets too laggy. I have a ton of checkerboarding in the browser as well.

    To accuse him of "trolling" or being a "hater" is beyond ridiculous. Yes, these forums were created for members & we must be treated with respect. From what I have read, the OP was very respectful. It has been the responders that have been disrespectful & telling the OP to got to a different platform. It would benefit us all to think before we speak or even type. I believe we are all still entitled to our own opinion, and there is never a reason to treat someone like their opinion isn't valid.

    All that to say, I am looking forward to what Rim brings us with BB10-I can't wait to prove my entire family wrong about BB! Merry Christmas & Happy New Year!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyls View Post
    Wow-I am quite dismayed at all of the negative responses the OP is getting. He was not hateful in any way, just pointing out issues he is having with his PB. I am experiencing the exact same thing. You tolerate it for a while, and then you can only live with it for so long. The OP clearly stated he's not going anywhere-he's sticking with BB, as am I. But I agree that the UI gets too laggy. I have a ton of checkerboarding in the browser as well.

    To accuse him of "trolling" or being a "hater" is beyond ridiculous. Yes, these forums were created for members & we must be treated with respect. From what I have read, the OP was very respectful. It has been the responders that have been disrespectful & telling the OP to got to a different platform. It would benefit us all to think before we speak or even type. I believe we are all still entitled to our own opinion, and there is never a reason to treat someone like their opinion isn't valid.

    All that to say, I am looking forward to what Rim brings us with BB10-I can't wait to prove my entire family wrong about BB! Merry Christmas & Happy New Year!
    I too have the same issues. There is no denying that playbook UI laggs horribly. And really, OP wasn't trying to troll or rant. Its just that those so called 'fanboys' are just too biased and too good to understand his point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by adadadad View Post
    I too have the same issues. There is no denying that playbook UI laggs horribly. And really, OP wasn't trying to troll or rant. Its just that those so called 'fanboys' are just too biased and too good to understand his point.
    I understand the OP's and also your own problems - and don't doubt the veracity of them for one minute. You have to understand that for many of us here, our PB's are working ok - including mine - since launch. My beef is when people post as if all PB's are behaving this way, just because that is their own individual experience. Having said that, the rest of us should respect that some people do, indeed, have problems - and are frustrated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvictor77 View Post
    I understand the OP's and also your own problems - and don't doubt the veracity of them for one minute. You have to understand that for many of us here, our PB's are working ok - including mine - since launch. My beef is when people post as if all PB's are behaving this way, just because that is their own individual experience. Having said that, the rest of us should respect that some people do, indeed, have problems - and are frustrated.
    Its not that only a few people are having issues. Just do a google search. And you'll get to know the real fact. Just to let you know, i've 4 other playbook in my family. So, i'm not basing my conclusion on 1 unit. Many other people face serious issues. But they can't post or bring it up here. Granted it is a blackberry forum. No offence but who knows, you may be one of them..! BTW, if your playbook is working without a single issue, make the most of it. And to all guys, don't go after the users, who are having issues with their device.
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    #191  

    Default Re: Playbook's UI overall laggs unbearably!

    I didn't notice it so much until I bouht a new PlayBook, there was a big difference in the speed of the UI. Once I wiped the old one and installed the new OS it ran much quicker. So just like an old Windows computer, a fresh OS install does seem to help.

    As for the browser, turn off Java and Flash and it is much better. Or better yet try another browser. Simple Browser work ok
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    Quote Originally Posted by adadadad View Post
    Its not that only a few people are having issues. Just do a google search. And you'll get to know the real fact. Just to let you know, i've 4 other playbook in my family. So, i'm not basing my conclusion on 1 unit. Many other people face serious issues. But they can't post or bring it up here. Granted it is a blackberry forum. No offence but who knows, you may be one of them..! BTW, if your playbook is working without a single issue, make the most of it. And to all guys, don't go after the users, who are having issues with their device.

    I'm not discounting the problem either, but based on this forum and two others I frequent as well as the "Google search" it's still a small percentage based on the number out there. I've had mine a year and a half and it's no slower than the one I bought a few months ago. I have no lag issues and neither does my wife or daughter. I believe you do have an issue but as mentioned above, the attitudes of some posters that if "their" PB has a problem, all PBs have the same problem is ludicrous. The same goes for a poster that assumes that because he has no problems, no one else does either. That attitude is what starts the flames. Keep in mind that many complaints of lag in this forum have been resolved because the problems were bad apps, full caches, botched updates, conflicting settings etc...that cleaning, reloading etc... took care of. Not all were resolved, but many were.

    It goes both ways. I respect that you have a UI lag problem, respect that I don't.
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    Is there a good reason why someone dredged up this thread from July/August? You do realize that it is now December?
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    Well to be fair, the OS does need improvement, but you can't fault RIM for not tending to a sinking ship. Its best to get out before you go down also
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    Quote Originally Posted by super mecha View Post
    Well to be fair, the OS does need improvement, but you can't fault RIM for not tending to a sinking ship. Its best to get out before you go down also
    Janeka Carter, is that you little troll? Why did you change your identity?

    You'll be gone soon, anyway.
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    #196  

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    I have experienced this before, and managed to speed up my PB to out of the box speed.

    I made a short checklist for this:

    1. Do you have a lot of apps installed?
    2. Do you have a lot of Android apps sideloaded?
    3. Have you recently cleaned the browser cache?
    4. How much storage you assign to did your PB when you set up Desktop Manager?

    There might be a possibility that when the PlayBook reaches a certain storage space, it starts to memory thrash. This is why after reset, as if something got screwed with the temporary storage used for operating. This is probably why reloading the PlayBook to factory settings everything seems to go back to normal.
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