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  1. WeAreNotAlone's Avatar
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    Default PlayBook BENCHMARKING, BURN-IN, STRESS TESTING, BATTERY , DISPLAY CHECKING APPS

    Quick question:

    Have (4) PlayBooks 64GB (1Ghz 1st Gen) purchased last week or so.
    Running OS
    2.1.0.1088

    With PC's there are various testing, benchmarking, burn-in, stress testing, battery(laptop/netbook), and display checking apps.

    Q: What (free) BENCHMARKING, BURN-IN, STRESS TESTING, BATTERY , DISPLAY CHECKING APPS are there for the PlayBook 1Ghz 1st Gen?
    I'd like to fire up all running some testing apps, verify hardware is not defective, batteries aren't weak. (See Production dates below)

    Concern on batteries being lithium ion? Batteries have a finite lifespan.
    Hardware being defective and I only have so many days to return.

    BTW: Using Battery Watch shows at 100% charge 4178mV, is this normal?

    EDIT: Just read a post in another thread in which the poster said the PlayBook is a 5400mV ?
    What is the chance of getting RIM to ship me some batteries?

    2011-06= (3) units.... Right at 18 months old!
    2011-12= (1) units......Right at 12 months old!

    .
    Last edited by WeAreNotAlone; 11-28-2012 at 02:19 AM.
  2. djenkins6's Avatar
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    I think there is zero chance of RIM supplying batteries, they'll charge you $99 for battery replacement though.

    If you are in Canada these guys are selling used batteries pulled from devices for $29.99
    OEM BlackBerry Playbook 5400mAh Battery & Assembly 16GB 32GB 64G - Markham / York Region Electronics For Sale - Kijiji Markham / York Region Canada.

    or these guys for $48
    BlackBerry PlayBook 5400mAh Buit-in Battery - Parts4repair.Com

    or UK (you always pay more)
    Blackberry Playbook 3.7V 5400mAh Tablet computer batteries

    or perhaps one of these guys, $25 with free international shipping seems too good to be true but they have around 99% ratings
    Battery For BlackBerry Playbook 5400mAh | eBay
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  3. Kandoo-BB's Avatar
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    #3  

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    Your PlayBook's have a 1 year warranty. If there are issues get RIM to make good!
  4. BravoZuluDelta's Avatar
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    #4  

    Default Re: PlayBook BENCHMARKING, BURN-IN, STRESS TESTING, BATTERY , DISPLAY CHECKING APPS

    Quote Originally Posted by WeAreNotAlone View Post
    Quick question:

    Have (4) PlayBooks 64GB (1Ghz 1st Gen) purchased last week or so.
    Running OS
    2.1.0.1088

    With PC's there are various testing, benchmarking, burn-in, stress testing, battery(laptop/netbook), and display checking apps.

    Q: What (free) BENCHMARKING, BURN-IN, STRESS TESTING, BATTERY , DISPLAY CHECKING APPS are there for the PlayBook 1Ghz 1st Gen?
    I'd like to fire up all running some testing apps, verify hardware is not defective, batteries aren't weak. (See Production dates below)

    Concern on batteries being lithium ion? Batteries have a finite lifespan.
    Hardware being defective and I only have so many days to return.

    BTW: Using Battery Watch shows at 100% charge 4178mV, is this normal?

    EDIT: Just read a post in another thread in which the poster said the PlayBook is a 5400mV ?
    What is the chance of getting RIM to ship me some batteries?

    2011-06= (3) units.... Right at 18 months old!
    2011-12= (1) units......Right at 12 months old!

    .
    Lithium polymer batteries reach full charge at 4.2 V, so 4178 mV is just about right on (you don't want to exceed 4200 mV as the batteries will age quicker and are more prone to heat damage at higher charges). The 5400 figure refers to battery capacity, with units in mAh, not mV. This refers to milliamp-hours, meaning the battery will sustain a draw of 5.4 A for one hour. The PlayBook draws much less than 5.4 A, closer to 0.5-1.0 A.

    RIM won't be shipping you new batteries, no tablet/computer/tech company does as far as I'm aware, outside of a short warranty of a few weeks after initial purchase. Keep your battery healthy and it should last you close to a decade. Heat is the main killer of LiPo batteries, so keep it away from car dashboards, heaters, top of warm electronics, etc. Although the software will try to keep the battery from reaching a true discharge state, prevent the battery from going below a 10% charge as shown on the software meter. Keep the battery charged for regular use, but don't keep it on the charger for extended periods (e.g., don't leave on charger while you're away for a week). Long-term storage should be done with the battery between 50-75% and the unit completely shut off.
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  5. homer1475's Avatar
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    #5  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canada Panda View Post
    Although the software will try to keep the battery from reaching a true discharge state, prevent the battery from going below a 10% charge as shown on the software meter. Keep the battery charged for regular use, but don't keep it on the charger for extended periods (e.g., don't leave on charger while you're away for a week). Long-term storage should be done with the battery between 50-75% and the unit completely shut off.
    I just hate when I read misinformation about li-po(lithium polymer) batteries.

    First lets start with a little background on why I know what I know about batteries(ni-cad, li-on, li-po). I have been using rechargable's for the last 30 years in my full time hobby of rc-airplanes, it first started with ni-cad(nickel cadmium) batteries back in the old days, these just simply ran things like the the servos for control surfaces, and the radio gear. Then a few years back we got a big jump in battery life with li-on(lithium ion), these batteries packed a bigger punch in a smaller, lighter package but still suffered from "battery memory". Jump to today, we have li-po(lithium polymer), these batteries pack a huge punch in a small, lightweight package and do not suffer from "battery memory", but do suffer from short term life spans if exposed to repeated heat cycles, excessive drain rates, and god forbid you punctured one or charged it incorrectly(think of an explosion or rapid fire expansion through the pack). These batteries now run everything in the plane, from the motor all the way to the control surfaces(thank god for li-po's, or otherwise most flying fields would be shutdown due to the noise of a the older "gas" engines. Electric planes are nearly silent).

    With that out of the way lets discuss the misinformation in the above post:

    The software in the PB will not allow the batteries to drop below a safe discharge state when the device is powered on(3 volts per cell), so the information of not allowing the battery to drop below 10% on the meter is utter BS(i almost daily kill my PB to the point of it turning itself off, and have never had a problem). Yes it is possible to drop below this level(storing the PB for long periods of time in a minimal charge state), a simple "stack charge" will allow the OS to once again control the charge/discharge rate of the battery(pretty sure everyone has had to do this at some point on the PB).

    Next up, not leaving it on a charger:

    My wives PB lives on its rapid charging dock(it will literally sit there for days on end, shes not a huge user). Again we come back to the li-po's major plus, no "memory". In the old days if you left a rechargeable battery on the charger it would completely kill the battery life(almost to the point of a fully charged battery only lasting minutes instead of hours), this is what is referred to as "battery memory". Li-po's do not suffer from this "memory" and can be left on a charger nearly indefinitely without loss of life. Also a note worthy fact is that once the battery is charged the OS will shut off charging, if this was not the case there would be hordes of lawsuits against manufacturers. Have you ever seen what happens to an overcharged li-po? THEY LITERALLY EXPLODE, just google it or youtube it.

    To the last point, keep it charged at 50 to 75% for long term storage.

    While I mostly agree with this statement, it is better to fully charge li-po's for long term storage, this is simply for the health of the battery. If it stored for to long and the volts per cell drops below the minimum level, it will kill the battery and will no longer take or hold a charge.

    Again just to reiterate, I have been using rechargeable's for the better part of 30 years and have been using li-po's in general and exclusively for the last 10 or so years since they were first introduced in my hobby. I have seen what happens when you leave them stored for periods of time(the 4 to 6 months of winter), or what happens when you overcharge them. This is what makes me a semi-expert on rechargeable's and li-po's in general IMO.
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  6. Bumble2000's Avatar
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    Thanks homer1475. That was very educational for me :-)
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    There's Display Test to check for pixel problems but it is a manual - touch, change, etc to see the colors. I believe there is an auto one but that costs money.
  8. peter9477's Avatar
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    home1475's post is dead-on.
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  9. PatrickMJS's Avatar
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    #9  

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    Quote Originally Posted by homer1475 View Post
    The software in the PB will not allow the batteries to drop below a safe discharge state when the device is powered on(3 volts per cell), so the information of not allowing the battery to drop below 10% on the meter is utter BS(i almost daily kill my PB to the point of it turning itself off, and have never had a problem). Yes it is possible to drop below this level(storing the PB for long periods of time in a minimal charge state), a simple "stack charge" will allow the OS to once again control the charge/discharge rate of the battery(pretty sure everyone has had to do this at some point on the PB).
    Homer, I'm not sure you're right in your paragraph about not fully discharging. Last summer, my PB started making the low battery tone in the middle of the night. I was too sleepy to get up and deal with it, figured I'd just plug it in when I got up in the morning. But by then the battery had fully discharged, beyond the point of being able to be recharged. Yes I tried all the suggested solutions, including the stack-charging idea. Nothing worked.

    I called the PlayBook support # and even though my unit was already a couple of months beyond the 1 year warranty, they had me send it in at their expense and they shipped me a replacement unit in less than a week. (Shipped out the defective unit on a Monday and received the replacement unit that Friday!)

    Fortunately my PB had been backed up recently using BB DS, so nothing was lost.

    I searched the BB Support Knowledgebase and found that there is a reported problem with the PB batteries.

    KB26808-The BlackBerry PlayBook tablet is unable to charge when powered off

    KB27705-BlackBerry PlayBook battery power charge, discharge characteristics, and guidance on extending battery life

    The problem in layman's terms is that the operating system (only a basic portion of it) needs to be operating for the battery to take a charge. Apparently all other electronic devices simply charge when plugged in, but not the PB. The PB OS needs to be functioning in order to charge, and in order for the OS to operate, it requires a minimal amount of battery power. Once the battery falls below this minimum level, the OS stops and so does the ability to charge. Sounds like the fallacy of circular engineering design: for Item A to work, it depends on Item B working and for Item B to work, it requires Item A to be working. Duh????

    I understand this is what the "stack-charging" method is meant to overcome but seriously this has to be the stupidest design decision I've ever heard of. I bought a half-dozen PB and gave them to family members. Everyone loves using theirs but it was embarrassing to have to phone everyone and warn them to not allow their PB to get too low on the battery.
    Last edited by PatrickMJS; 11-28-2012 at 11:09 AM. Reason: To add the links
    Patrick from Calgary
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  10. #10  

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickMJS View Post
    Homer, I'm not sure you're right in your paragraph about not fully discharging. Last summer, my PB started making the low battery tone in the middle of the night. I was too sleepy to get up and deal with it, figured I'd just plug it in when I got up in the morning. But by then the battery had fully discharged, beyond the point of being able to be recharged. Yes I tried all the suggested solutions, including the stack-charging idea. Nothing worked.

    I called the PlayBook support # and even though my unit was already a couple of months beyond the 1 year warranty, they had me send it in at their expense and they shipped me a replacement unit in less than a week. (Shipped out the defective unit on a Monday and received the replacement unit that Friday!)

    Fortunately my PB had been backed up recently using BB DS, so nothing was lost.

    I searched the BB Support Knowledgebase and found that there is a reported problem with the PB batteries.

    KB26808-The BlackBerry PlayBook tablet is unable to charge when powered off

    KB27705-BlackBerry PlayBook battery power charge, discharge characteristics, and guidance on extending battery life

    The problem in layman's terms is that the operating system (only a basic portion of it) needs to be operating for the battery to take a charge. Apparently all other electronic devices simply charge when plugged in, but not the PB. The PB OS needs to be functioning in order to charge, and in order for the OS to operate, it requires a minimal amount of battery power. Once the battery falls below this minimum level, the OS stops and so does the ability to charge. Sounds like the fallacy of circular engineering design: for Item A to work, it depends on Item B working and for Item B to work, it requires Item A to be working. Duh????

    I understand this is what the "stack-charging" method is meant to overcome but seriously this has to be the stupidest design decision I've ever heard of. I bought a half-dozen PB and gave them to family members. Everyone loves using theirs but it was embarrassing to have to phone everyone and warn them to not allow their PB to get too low on the battery.
    That sums up my conclusions from reading the too numerous "battery dead/won't charge" threads. Admittedly, not every very low pb battery leads to this cyclic craziness but it should not happen at all!
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  11. BravoZuluDelta's Avatar
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    Default Re: PlayBook BENCHMARKING, BURN-IN, STRESS TESTING, BATTERY , DISPLAY CHECKING APPS

    Well my credentials aren't as long-term as yours, however I do use Li-Ion and Li-Po daily for both work and play, in instruments and flashlights - which turn into pipe bombs if the cells are mistreated - so I do have a good understanding of these battery chemistries.

    First let us look at the original post to understand why I recommended what I did. The OP wanted to extend operating life of the battery - that is, to get as many years out of the battery as possible. This is why I recommended not discharging past 10%. I don't know what the cut-off is on the PlayBook, but I assume it is close to 3.3 or 3.4 V. As has been mentioned above, the PlayBook never really shuts down and can drain the battery past this stage. If you need to stack charge, you are likely already below 3.0 V and have damaged the battery - it will revive and still work, but the usable life has been shortened, which is not what the OP wants.

    Next, leaving them on the charger. Given the rather poor robustness of the charging software (see above), I erred on the side of caution and advised not to leave it on the charger. I'm sure you are aware of many cheap Li-Ion chargers in the RC market which will trickle charge even after the cells are full. Yes, I have seen the results of a battery left on such a charger for 48 hours (hint: don't do it in your bedroom). If you have empirical evidence that long-term charging does not damage the service life of the battery, great.

    I will agree with you on storing it fully charged - I gave this last piece of advice based on storage of an unprotected cell (I keep a cache of 18650s in my safe), however the PlayBook will present a constant draw to the battery while stored.
    Last edited by Canada Panda; 11-28-2012 at 04:06 PM.
  12. homer1475's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickMJS View Post

    The problem in layman's terms is that the operating system (only a basic portion of it) needs to be operating for the battery to take a charge. Apparently all other electronic devices simply charge when plugged in, but not the PB. The PB OS needs to be functioning in order to charge, and in order for the OS to operate, it requires a minimal amount of battery power. Once the battery falls below this minimum level, the OS stops and so does the ability to charge. Sounds like the fallacy of circular engineering design: for Item A to work, it depends on Item B working and for Item B to work, it requires Item A to be working. Duh????
    Quote Originally Posted by Canada Panda View Post
    Well my credentials aren't as long-term as yours, however I do use Li-Ion and Li-Po daily for both work and play, in instruments and flashlights - which turn into pipe bombs if the cells are mistreated - so I do have a good understanding of these battery chemistries.

    First let us look at the original post to understand why I recommended what I did. The OP wanted to extend operating life of the battery - that is, to get as many years out of the battery as possible. This is why I recommended not discharging past 10%. I don't know what the cut-off is on the PlayBook, but I assume it is close to 3.3 or 3.4 V. As has been mentioned above, the PlayBook never really shuts down and can drain the battery past this stage. If you need to stack charge, you are likely already below 3.0 V and have damaged the battery - it will revive and still work, but the usable life has been shortened, which is not what the OP wants.

    Next, leaving them on the charger. Given the rather poor robustness of the charging software (see above), I erred on the side of caution and advised not to leave it on the charger. I'm sure you are aware of many cheap Li-Ion chargers in the RC market which will trickle charge even after the cells are full. Yes, I have seen the results of a battery left on such a charger for 48 hours (hint: don't do it in your bedroom). If you have empirical evidence that long-term charging does not damage the service life of the battery, great.

    I will agree with you on storing it fully charged - I gave this last piece of advice based on storage of an unprotected cell (I keep a cache of 18650s in my safe), however the PlayBook will present a constant draw to the battery while stored.
    I totally agree with you PatrickMJS, the way RIM has the OS handle charging/discharging is ridiculous. Although I have never had the PB drop below a level where stack charging didn't bring it back to life. This is a problem with the PB not lipo's in general, any other device shuts off the battery when they drop to 3V per cell(the safe discharge state for lipo's) and does not continue to drain the battery. The PB requires the battery to have a bit of life left(above 3V/cell) because the OS manages the battery charging, as opposed to a normal charging circuit.

    As far as leaving the PB on the charger:

    Since one of the biggest issues with the PB is how the OS handles the charging/discharging(as opposed to a separate charging circuit). leaving it on a charger will not allow it to "trickle" charge since the OS will shut off charging when the battery level is full. There is no fear of overcharging the lipo's in the PB(this is probably why RIM decided on having the OS handle charging). I have no concrete evidence on this other then my own personal usage with my PB. Again my wives sits on the charger for days on end(sometimes a week at a time, she has never drained the PB past 50% lol) and according to Battery Guru her health is still at 94%, same place it was at when new.

    Also I believe you'll find the PB shuts off (my best guess) is somewhere around 4V/cell giving you some time to plug in the PB before it actually drops below 3V/cell(the safe level of discharge for lipo's). If it shut off closer to 3V/cell you would need to plug it in nearly immediately before the batteries dropped beyond 3V/cell. I think you would see more threads on dead PB's due to dead batteries(dropping below 3V/cell will effectively kill a lipo, they typically they will not even charge).

    Of course this is all just my own thoughts on this matter and I have no way of knowing for certain, nor have I ever tore my PB apart to stick a multi meter on the battery and test it.
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  13. jpash549's Avatar
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    Default Re: PlayBook BENCHMARKING, BURN-IN, STRESS TESTING, BATTERY , DISPLAY CHECKING APPS

    Buy Battery Guru inthe Blackberry World and then you can see your charge-discharge curves. My Playbook charges to just under 4.2 V and discharges to just over 3.4 V. Also see Battery World site for some actual data. To me this data shows that keeping fully charged will decrease life a little as will deep discharges. High temperatures like 40 C are quite deleterious.

    http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...ased_batteries
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