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  1. Mux157's Avatar
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    Default PlayBook bashing + Kindle Fire reality check

    So, what frustrates the **** out of me is to see hardly anyone gripe about the Kindle Fire 7" form factor. When RIM introduced the PB, almost everyone bitched and moaned about the fact that it was too small...

    Anyway...

    One thing I'm surprised by is that people tend to overlook that, while affordable, the *real* cost of the Kindle Fire comes AFTER you purchase the thing, which is the whole point for its existence! First, in order to make proper use of it, you will need Amazon Prime to get (some) free video + music + storage. Sure, $80/year ain't that bad a deal but now we're already looking at $280 for the KF for year one. And once you're invested, you're likely to renew year over year, especially if you store lots of personal content on their servers.

    Now that you're plugged in, you'll probably make a number of impulse buys, just because you can. A magazine subscription here, couple of movies there, the odd CD to listen to, bunch of games / apps... Let's be conservative here and call it an even $120/year.

    Without even TRYING, that $199 Kindle's price tag has already DOUBLED! Yes, you can argue that that's the whole point, but is it, really? You can buy an iPad and NEVER pay for anything as there are so many free apps out. Same goes for the PlayBook. Both are different in that they're geared more towards doing things / productivity rather than consuming digital content. That's not to say you can't, it's just not the primary function. The Fire's sole function is for consumers to buy digital content. Even just as a surfing-only device, you're feeding Amazon valuable information (read the privacy policy!) they can use to sell you more.

    TBH I'm still on the fence. For $100 more I can get a PlayBook and use it on a day-to-day basis once 2.0 comes out -or- I can get the Kindle Fire and give Amazon a steady stream of my money until it either dies or something better comes along.

    Thoughts?

    -Mux
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  2. Kerms's Avatar
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    I think you need to go do some more reading on the Kindle Fire and reevaluate your rant.

    Also a lot of people liked the idea of a 7" tablet. SJ was the one who mostly dissed it and his most loyal followers parroted what he said.

    If you're on the go a lot it's a nice size but having a bigger screen does have its merits as you don't have to pinch and zoom as much
  3. southflguy's Avatar
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    Well the $79 per year is not required. You can use the Kindle Fire and buy/rent movies and music at will. My prediction is that the Kindle Fire (and future Fires) will become the biggest selling Android tablets out there. They have the ecosystem in place - lots of people are already invested in Amazon digital content. And OF COURSE they want you to buy into their ecosystem - this is classic Apple and has made them successful. Don't get me wrong, I love my playbook and I can't wait for 2.0 to come out, however, I think Amazon just hit a homerun - Low Price + Ecosystem + Quality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mux157 View Post
    So, what frustrates the **** out of me is to see hardly anyone gripe about the Kindle Fire 7" form factor. When RIM introduced the PB, almost everyone bitched and moaned about the fact that it was too small...

    Anyway...

    One thing I'm surprised by is that people tend to overlook that, while affordable, the *real* cost of the Kindle Fire comes AFTER you purchase the thing, which is the whole point for its existence! First, in order to make proper use of it, you will need Amazon Prime to get (some) free video + music + storage. Sure, $80/year ain't that bad a deal but now we're already looking at $280 for the KF for year one. And once you're invested, you're likely to renew year over year, especially if you store lots of personal content on their servers.

    Now that you're plugged in, you'll probably make a number of impulse buys, just because you can. A magazine subscription here, couple of movies there, the odd CD to listen to, bunch of games / apps... Let's be conservative here and call it an even $120/year.

    Without even TRYING, that $199 Kindle's price tag has already DOUBLED! Yes, you can argue that that's the whole point, but is it, really? You can buy an iPad and NEVER pay for anything as there are so many free apps out. Same goes for the PlayBook. Both are different in that they're geared more towards doing things / productivity rather than consuming digital content. That's not to say you can't, it's just not the primary function. The Fire's sole function is for consumers to buy digital content. Even just as a surfing-only device, you're feeding Amazon valuable information (read the privacy policy!) they can use to sell you more.

    TBH I'm still on the fence. For $100 more I can get a PlayBook and use it on a day-to-day basis once 2.0 comes out -or- I can get the Kindle Fire and give Amazon a steady stream of my money until it either dies or something better comes along.

    Thoughts?

    -Mux
  4. Bla1ze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mux157 View Post
    Now that you're plugged in, you'll probably make a number of impulse buys, just because you can. A magazine subscription here, couple of movies there, the odd CD to listen to, bunch of games / apps... Let's be conservative here and call it an even $120/year.

    -Mux
    Are you not apt to do this on the PlayBook as well? Oh right.. you can't as of yet, there is no real ecosystem for such things outside of apps and music.

    You go work that out and figure out the cost of owner ship as well. I was with ya, until you skewed the real facts.

    I get it, you love your PlayBook.. as do I but let's not be blind to about the real situation here. Everything Amazon is offering, is what PlayBook owners WANT.

    Movies, Music, Books, Better Apps.. all of it, people are waiting for on the PlayBook so banging down on the Kindle Fire saying the cost of owner ship is more is redundant because right now if they PlayBook had those things, we'd be spending money on them.
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  5. Kerms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bla1ze View Post
    Are you not apt to do this on the PlayBook as well? Oh right.. you can't as of yet, there is no real ecosystem for such things outside of apps and music.

    You go work that out and figure out the cost of owner ship as well. I was with ya, until you skewed the real facts.

    I get it, you love your PlayBook.. as do I but let's not be blind to about the real situation here. Everything Amazon is offering, is what PlayBook owners WANT.

    Movies, Music, Books, Better Apps.. all of it, people are waiting for on the PlayBook so banging down on the Kindle Fire saying the cost of owner ship is more is redundant because right now if they PlayBook had those things, we'd be spending money on them.
    Yeah that's what I was getting at. I actually thought it was spoof thread so I didn't dwell on it too much.
  6. Mux157's Avatar
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    Yow. Didn't expect such bitter responses. Anyway, to the point(s) made:

    The PB's 7" form factor was HIGHLY criticized when it first came out yet I have yet to hear people ***** about the Fire's size. That's all I was saying.

    The $80/year is not necessary but it'll give you access to the ~11k videos on Amazon, for free and goes towards shipping anything you buy off of amazon.

    With regards to content, there isn't much on the PB which isn't a big deal, at least to me. Again, depends what you're using it for. If you use your PB primarily for work, mail + office compatibility is pretty much all you need.

    I don't know... Amazon nicely positioned the Fire well with very little confusion as to where it stands. RIM did a horrible job on this front and still hasn't gotten their story straight.

    I'll probably end up with neither and go for a Kindle Touch as books are a slow (financial) burn. Pun wholeheartedly intended :-)

    -Mux
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  7. greatwiseone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bla1ze View Post
    Are you not apt to do this on the PlayBook as well? Oh right.. you can't as of yet, there is no real ecosystem for such things outside of apps and music.

    You go work that out and figure out the cost of owner ship as well. I was with ya, until you skewed the real facts.

    I get it, you love your PlayBook.. as do I but let's not be blind to about the real situation here. Everything Amazon is offering, is what PlayBook owners WANT.

    Movies, Music, Books, Better Apps.. all of it, people are waiting for on the PlayBook so banging down on the Kindle Fire saying the cost of owner ship is more is redundant because right now if they PlayBook had those things, we'd be spending money on them.
    It's hard to argue against a whole ecosystem that has already been developed. Biggest problem with the Fire right now is that it's basically useless outside of the U.S., even if I bought it from there. There is no streaming video access for Amazon in Canada (or any other place around the world). Amazon cloud music player isn't available either.

    If RIM has a video store, a kindle app that works, and 7Digital music store, I'm ok with the PB. While people like the one stop approach, I would rather have choices as to where I'm buying my music, books, or videos. When you are tied in to one system, you are stuck with all of its problems, like iTunes.
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    Oh the Amazon Fire should do very well. Amazon is a trusted brand with great recognition, and has a large loyal following. I don't even see why this wouldn't make a good companion tablet (I mean in addition to your main tablet). You could pick up a Kindle for 79.00 or a Kindle Touch for 99.00, what is a hundred more? My only gripe about it, is the 8GB of memory. It's not even available in Canada yet, but I will at least be checking this out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bla1ze View Post

    I get it, you love your PlayBook.. as do I but let's not be blind to about the real situation here. Everything Amazon is offering, is what PlayBook owners WANT.
    Zackly. I buy Kindle books and Amazon mp3s on my 9780 now. The BB apps make it nice and easy.

    Specs aren't everything. If my PB hadn't been a gift i wouldn't own one and I'd getting ready to buy a Kindle Fire now.
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    Mux157, u have a point, Steve Jobs said that small tablets were dead on arrival, obviously he was wrong.

    Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.

    What bothers me though is that a non-tablet company like Amazon is catching up RIM.... Lets face it, since the announcement of the PB a year ago, there hasnt been much novelty here. Os2 plugs obvious holes in email and apps (Android Player), but the 3g version is not here, a larger PB neither.

    Whats next for PB on the hardware front? Its been a year already...
    Jobs: the apps nazi
  11. Kerms's Avatar
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    You can get music,books,movies and music from other places besides iTunes.
    iTunes is just like Walmart. Walmart added grocery stores to try to buy all your stuff in one place.
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    To be honest man, fudge the KF! I'm focused on my kool PB, and the future updates. Hopefully RIM can provide a2dp and hulu capability, an ill be straight. Better yet a real desktop browser experience

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
  13. Kerms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingbernie06511 View Post
    Mux157, u have a point, Steve Jobs said that small tablets were dead on arrival, obviously he was wrong.

    Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.

    What bothers me though is that a non-tablet company like Amazon is catching up RIM.... Lets face it, since the announcement of the PB a year ago, there hasnt been much novelty here. Os2 plugs obvious holes in email and apps (Android Player), but the 3g version is not here, a larger PB neither.

    Whats next for PB on the hardware front? Its been a year already...
    Well techincally RIM wasn't a Tablet company till this year. Amazon would have a better claim that they had a tablet in the kindle before RIM

    RIM does seem to be slow footing the PB. Now Android is talking about quad core tablets, then you have a host of other Android 7" tablets coming out in the next few weeks.

    I think RIM has missed its chance to be a major hit.
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  14. Mux157's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daps View Post
    Walmart added grocery stores to try to buy all your stuff in one place.
    Funny that, I actually have Amazon Fresh deliver my groceries to my doorstep :-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ubizmo View Post
    Zackly. I buy Kindle books and Amazon mp3s on my 9780 now. The BB apps make it nice and easy.

    Specs aren't everything. If my PB hadn't been a gift i wouldn't own one and I'd getting ready to buy a Kindle Fire now.
    agree 100%
    “Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daps View Post
    You can get music,books,movies and music from other places besides iTunes.
    iTunes is just like Walmart. Walmart added grocery stores to try to buy all your stuff in one place.
    Maybe. But my Walmart is always packed selling the crap out of stuff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IvanAMANation View Post
    To be honest man, fudge the KF! I'm focused on my kool PB, and the future updates. Hopefully RIM can provide a2dp and hulu capability, an ill be straight. Better yet a real desktop browser experience

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    This is only the beginning for Amazon - Netflix here they come.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bla1ze View Post
    Are you not apt to do this on the PlayBook as well? Oh right.. you can't as of yet, there is no real ecosystem for such things outside of apps and music.

    You go work that out and figure out the cost of owner ship as well. I was with ya, until you skewed the real facts.

    I get it, you love your PlayBook.. as do I but let's not be blind to about the real situation here. Everything Amazon is offering, is what PlayBook owners WANT.

    Movies, Music, Books, Better Apps.. all of it, people are waiting for on the PlayBook so banging down on the Kindle Fire saying the cost of owner ship is more is redundant because right now if they PlayBook had those things, we'd be spending money on them.
    Sad but true!

    I want Playbook to be successful but here we are five months from launch and we are still missing so much.

    Please RIM, let's get it together!
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    No wonder Amazon decided to squash its plans to produce a Kindle app for the Playbook. They had their own Playbook just waiting to be released this whole time.

    I have already read one review today praising the Fire for its size, and Adobe Flash capability. Things that reviewers tended to try and make into negatives when the Playbook released. I'm finally realizing that it's all about which companies the tech reviewers like and don't like. Well F*@& 'em. I'll be buying 2 more Playbooks before the end of october.
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  20. dmcclure2's Avatar
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    I'm not convinced that the KF replaces the PB, regardless of Amazon's marketing muscle. More likely the KF will strive to kill of Nook Color. Netflix...well, they are imploding without this, and the Amazon Premier program will not help.

    Meanwhile, I would note that the KF has less RAM, less storage, an obsolete operating system, and less functionality than the PB. I would predict that the 10" guys will beat each other bloody at the high end, and Amazon will capture the low end (with a low-cost, primarily entertainment tablet).

    That gives the PB an opportunity, if they hold true to their promises for OS2.0 and get it out in a timely manner, to become the tablet of choice for road warriors and hold on to their strength in the enterprise market. If they do not, the PB will become yet another great idea that failed to meet its promise.

    RIM has set its deadline, and we should give them the time to meet it. As for the KF...well, nice toy. Like the Karman Ghia almost looked like a Porshe, the KF almost looks like a Playbook!
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingbernie06511 View Post
    Mux157, u have a point, Steve Jobs said that small tablets were dead on arrival, obviously he was wrong.
    Well not to be a d*ck, but SJ was correct: there isn't a single 7" tablet out there at the moment that is selling well. PB included. The Fire might be a success only because it is Amazon and people are accustomed to the smaller Kindle, but I already hear of a 10" format coming out soon.

    What makes me laugh about this whole amazon thing is how a "walled garden" like Apple's is now suddenly a good thing: just a few months ago everyone criticized Apple for doing exactly what Amazon is doing now, but now that Amazon is doing it, it's all good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmcclure2 View Post
    RIM has set its deadline, and we should give them the time to meet it.
    There is no current deadline.
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    I think a lot of people are overlooking the fact that this is not a true tablet!! It is more of a glorified e-reader, and is being marketed against the likes of nook color etc.

    By their own admission, it is a heavily modified version of android...so in other words, I am really hearing bloated and crippled. It uses amazons app store and not the android app market, so expect a limited catalog that is filtered to this os.

    While cloud storage is nice, it necessitates a constant connection to get to your content, so here goes the vision of reading a book on the beach on vacation. And placing amazon prime trial membership as a benefit? I can go to the amazon website and get the trial for free.

    Seriously overrated product imo
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmcclure2 View Post
    I'm not convinced that the KF replaces the PB, regardless of Amazon's marketing muscle. More likely the KF will strive to kill of Nook Color. Netflix...well, they are imploding without this, and the Amazon Premier program will not help.

    Meanwhile, I would note that the KF has less RAM, less storage, an obsolete operating system, and less functionality than the PB. I would predict that the 10" guys will beat each other bloody at the high end, and Amazon will capture the low end (with a low-cost, primarily entertainment tablet).

    That gives the PB an opportunity, if they hold true to their promises for OS2.0 and get it out in a timely manner, to become the tablet of choice for road warriors and hold on to their strength in the enterprise market. If they do not, the PB will become yet another great idea that failed to meet its promise.

    RIM has set its deadline, and we should give them the time to meet it. As for the KF...well, nice toy. Like the Karman Ghia almost looked like a Porshe, the KF almost looks like a Playbook!
    In the end the fact that the KF has lower specs than a PB or an iPad won't matter. It won't even matter it has an outdated version of Android. What matters is what they do with it, the pricing and how well it's advertised. Amazon has the resources to make this thing huge. I think they're going about it in a very smart way.

    I'm just SO frustrated with RIM and the fact that they can't seem to get their stuff together. The KF will probably be out before OS 2.0 on the PB!
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    Quote Originally Posted by axe50 View Post
    I think a lot of people are overlooking the fact that this is not a true tablet!! It is more of a glorified e-reader, and is being marketed against the likes of nook color etc.

    By their own admission, it is a heavily modified version of android...so in other words, I am really hearing bloated and crippled. It uses amazons app store and not the android app market, so expect a limited catalog that is filtered to this os.

    While cloud storage is nice, it necessitates a constant connection to get to your content, so here goes the vision of reading a book on the beach on vacation. And placing amazon prime trial membership as a benefit? I can go to the amazon website and get the trial for free.

    Seriously overrated product imo
    There's 8GB of storage. All your books will be automatically synchronized.
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