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  1. grahamf's Avatar
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    Default PB to have a TI OMAP 4440 processor?

    So looking for info I found this article that says this as the reason for the delay of the PB to after the holidays:
    The note, reported on Barron’s Tech Trader Daily blog, suggests that the QNX Neutrino software platform that will power the Playbook “was not ready for prime time” and that the Marvell Armada 610 app processor that the company had planned to use was “bug ridden.” Instead, the company will be using a processor from Texas Instruments.
    The only TI processor that is a dual-core 1GHz with Cortex A9 is the OMAP 4440.

    Specs from Wikipedia: 1+ GHz dual-core ARM Cortex-A9 MPCore + PowerVR SGX540 GPU + C64x+ DSP + ISP (Image Signal Processor)

    thoughts?
  2. WillieLee's Avatar
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    The only "delay" involved was the source(Ashok Kumar) stating that it would launch in November. Now this is his story as to why he was wrong.
  3. grahamf's Avatar
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    probably, but the OMAP 4440 fits the bill pretty well, and I'm still searching for other manufacturer's chips that have exactly the same specs as RIM stated.
  4. lnichols's Avatar
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    A lot of manufacturers are coming out with Multi core Cortex processor, and they all seem to be hitting mass production in "early 2011". Samsung has one that will surely make it into phones and tablets called Orion. Rumor mill has next iPad to get one. I think by the time the playbook is released, there will be other tablets coming out with same specs, so the software and user experience will have to be the differentiator.
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    I think Apple has known that for years/decades. It's why Windows even exists... MS had to catch up to Apple's OS when it came to PCs. The BB OS worked while there wasn't a revolution, but when iPhone hit... RIM was in the same place that MS had been: A qucikly outdated OS. QNX will be their Windows; let's just hope it proves worthwhile.

    Also, Apple is a computer becoming a phone while RIM is a messenger device becoming a computer... Different points of view.
    Last edited by gregerator; 10-06-2010 at 12:32 PM.
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  6. taylortbb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grahamf View Post
    probably, but the OMAP 4440 fits the bill pretty well, and I'm still searching for other manufacturer's chips that have exactly the same specs as RIM stated.
    The nVidia Tegra 250 meets the specs, and is the name I've heard in a couple places (don't have links, sorry, was over a week ago). But like the TI OMAP that was just speculation.

    I think the Tegra 250 is more likely as it's already in production. I suspect that the level of hardware detail we got means that RIM has the hardware pretty much locked down. The units were encased in plexiglass because the OS isn't ready. It's much harder to develop a new OS than it is to put together off the shelf hardware. Additionally, I can't find a reference to the TI OMAP 4 being capable of encoding two 1080p streams simultaneously, and it was mentioned that operating both cameras simultaneously is possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by dave1812 View Post
    did RIM assign you this task? does the job pay well?
    Why so negative? Knowing the hardware inside is the only way we can learn more about this thing without RIM telling us.
    Last edited by taylortbb; 10-07-2010 at 12:25 AM.
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  7. dkingsf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taylortbb View Post
    The nVidia Tegra 250 meets the specs, and is the name I've heard in a couple places (don't have links, sorry, was over a week ago). But like the TI OMAP that was just speculation.

    I think the Tegra 250 is more likely as it's already in production. I suspect that the level of hardware detail we got means that RIM has the hardware pretty much locked down. The units were encased in plexiglass because the OS isn't ready. It's much harder to develop a new OS than it is to put together off the shelf hardware. Additionally, I can't find a reference to the TI OMAP 4 being capable of encoding two 1080p streams simultaneously, and it was mentioned that operating both cameras simultaneously is possible.



    Why so negative? Knowing the hardware inside is the only way we can learn more about this thing without RIM telling us.
    It's my understanding that the OS (QnX) IS quite ready. It has been in use for several years in various real time environments like the nuclear industry and military. I believe the delay is working out some of the UI and application issues and also making final determinations of hardware. I'm pretty sure they have already made the choice for the CPU in order to have the OS compiled for that architecture at least. Well, one would hope by now anyway.........
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  8. grahamf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkingsf View Post
    It's my understanding that the OS (QnX) IS quite ready. It has been in use for several years in various real time environments like the nuclear industry and military. I believe the delay is working out some of the UI and application issues and also making final determinations of hardware. I'm pretty sure they have already made the choice for the CPU in order to have the OS compiled for that architecture at least. Well, one would hope by now anyway.........
    the OS is ready, but the INTERFACE may not be (application, options windows, notifications)


    And yeah, I just quickly checked Wikipedia after reading the article and the other options seemed a little less likely.
  9. WillieLee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grahamf View Post
    probably, but the OMAP 4440 fits the bill pretty well, and I'm still searching for other manufacturer's chips that have exactly the same specs as RIM stated.
    An analyst from UBS said in a note that Texas Instruments and Freescale's Power processors were the two candidates from the start and they believe it will be the TI chip. Marvell wasn't included because of they lacked the time to port over to the Armada chip.

    I was only reacting to Ashok Kumar, who always makes statements that end up being wrong and then changes his story to justify his wrong call. I had meant to return to add something constructive but forgot!

    We will just have to wait and see what is inside but it does seem like the TI is the safe bet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkingsf View Post
    It's my understanding that the OS (QnX) IS quite ready. It has been in use for several years in various real time environments like the nuclear industry and military. I believe the delay is working out some of the UI and application issues and also making final determinations of hardware. I'm pretty sure they have already made the choice for the CPU in order to have the OS compiled for that architecture at least. Well, one would hope by now anyway.........
    I know all about QNX Neutrino and it's history. The statement referred to the complete OS package. It depends on what you consider an OS. Some take it to a very "literal" level and say it's just the kernel, in that case QNX exists and is proven. If however you take a broader view including basic system components (the graphical server, basic drivers, base utilities and libraries, etc) then the OS isn't ready yet. It is difficult to define what exactly constitutes an OS in the desktop space, but for mobile applications where it's all loaded as an inseparable package I take a more inclusive view.

    Even if the kernel was ready, if the GUI was still a few buttons with no real complete design yet RIM wouldn't want to show it off.

    Today I got some info from someone who recently worked for RIM (being in Waterloo has its advantages). Apparently the PlayBook existed in pretty much final hardware form 2-3+ months ago. He wasn't on the PlayBook team but did get to see them and knew people that were, specifically those doing diagnostics on the wireless radios (likely driver/radio stack development). No details about the device we don't already know, at that point it was really early in development. But it seems unlikely it's based on the TI OMAP 4 due to the timing. They had more than is likely for something still only available in sample quantities.
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    Looks like my earlier speculation of a Tegra 250 hasn't panned out. The presenter at Rogers TabLife showed the system info screen for just a second, but it was enough to see OMAP 4.



    It's captured from .

    You can learn more about OMAP 4 from TI's Site . One of the more interesting things from TI is the block diagram. It's important to keep in mind though, just because the chipset has a feature doesn't mean the device will use it.



    OMAP4 looks like a great platform. The only thing I'm somewhat disappointed about is the GPU. The PowerVR SGX540 is a pretty high end GPU, but unlike the rest of the hardware it's something already out there and in wide use, including in the Captivate (though with a far weaker CPU). There's a good benchmark at MobileTechWorld .
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  12. _StephenBB81's Avatar
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    Looking at that ChipSet, I am starting to come over to the OTG side thinking the Playbook will in fact have OTG.

    as for the GPU, I don't recall ever seeing it as the bottle neck in any other system, could quite possibly be that it is still an "over powered" gpu for the actual work expected of the device, so why go bigger?
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    Holy crap, I don't know anything about hardware but I think that's the best actual hands on video of the playbook I've yet to see. A portion of it was posted in another thread, but much blurrier and further away.
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    Quote Originally Posted by deRusett View Post
    Looking at that ChipSet, I am starting to come over to the OTG side thinking the Playbook will in fact have OTG.
    OTG could be implemented with a standard USB A socket and a USB B socket on the same device wired together inside. It wouldn't be possible to use them at the same time, but I don't see any reason why a device with an OTG chipset would also have to use the OTG plug. A plug is just some wires, the actual electrical interface is compatible between OTG plugs and standard plugs.
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  15. _StephenBB81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taylortbb View Post
    OTG could be implemented with a standard USB A socket and a USB B socket on the same device wired together inside. It wouldn't be possible to use them at the same time, but I don't see any reason why a device with an OTG chipset would also have to use the OTG plug. A plug is just some wires, the actual electrical interface is compatible between OTG plugs and standard plugs.

    That's why I'm only Starting to come over to the OTG side because they could do 2 slots a full A slot and a MicroUSB slot, A for master, Micro for Slaving.
    oops...
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  16. UrbanGlowCam's Avatar
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    WOW if the chipset you guys are referring to is the actual final one then it looks pretty impressive. I agree that the GPU on the Samsung Galaxy line is a great one.

    Thanks for posting the video. It's much more clear than the blurry one I posted in the other thread and really shows how impressive the PB is.

    I am definitely impressed and can't wait to get my hands on one.

    This is the right direction for RIM. I just hope it comes soon.
  17. grahamf's Avatar
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    The OMAP 4 family includes two applications pocessors, both based on the dual-core Cortex-A9 MPCore general purpose processors: the OMAP4430 operates at up to 720 MHz, while the OMAP4440 operates at up to 1 GHz
    OMAP™ 4 mobile applications platform
    I SO called it!

    And based on this, I'm betting that the lower end QNX devices (rumoured to be 600Mhz) will be rocking the OMAP4430.
    Last edited by grahamf; 12-03-2010 at 09:42 PM.
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  18. grahamf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deRusett View Post
    That's why I'm only Starting to come over to the OTG side because they could do 2 slots a full A slot and a MicroUSB slot, A for master, Micro for Slaving.
    But that could potentially be very confusing, as the average person will be wondering why only one port works at a time.
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    Default The PowerVR SGX540

    Is the most powerful GPU in use on the market today - and is in use in the PlayBook to A) take advantage of economies of scale for purchase lots in multiples, and B) to give performance for the next year. GPU's just recently announced like that crazy 8-core mobile GPU - is not in production yet and with the huge R&D costs will be VERY expensive before implementation in a mobile tablet until 3rd QTR 2011 at the very earliest and most optimistic; not realistic.

    Note:
    1. OMAP4440 - 1+ GHz dual-core ARM Cortex-A9 MPCore + PowerVR SGX540 GPU + C64x+ DSP + ISP (Image Signal Processor)

    2. PowerVR SGX540 3D graphics accelerator, and IVA 3 (IVA3) multimedia hardware accelerator with programmable DSP that enables 1080p Full HD and multi-standard video encode/decode.

    Some interesting things to note in the previously linked TI OMAP PDF are:

    Industry-leading power management and SmartReflexTM 2 technologies delivers more than 10 hours of 1080p HD video playback, 4+ hours of 1080p HD video recording and 140+ hours of CD quality audio playback
    The OMAP 4 graphics accelerator uses a Tile Based Deferred Rendering (TBDR) architecture to deliver state of the art support for 2D and 3D graphics and supports all the major APIs, including: OpenGL® ES v2.0, OpenGL ES v1.1, OpenVG v1.1 and EGL v1.3
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  20. Athanasis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayoung View Post
    Holy crap, I don't know anything about hardware but ..........
    But let somebody like me who knows about hardware tell you something. The market is spreading out with different platforms and OS 's and it makes things really complicated for the hungry, hypnotized consumer. Different CPU terms the validity of which none of you here is able to prove other than through the familiar "benchmarks".

    So, to keep things simple, I am coming with a better solution. A Linux AMD laptop (or Netbook) !!!! You can get one of these for under 300 euros today. You may really enjoy flexibility, full fat firefox with all necessary plug ins, a natural keyboard, bigger screen, open office and much more..... And because of Linux efficiency, this combination would run like a ROCKET.

    Ohhh, and if you funcy you may snap a cracked XP and strip it down into a light version in dual mode, together with some warez apps to get you going !!!!

    So people, don't get things complicated. The "AB343AS" terms are nothing more than part of their marketing game. Keep it simple and don't get lost in their power games.


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    OMAP processors are great. Couldn't be happier with the performance they have given me with my Droid and Droid X. Very fast, efficient and excellent on battery life. They also have great overclocking capabilities. I'm sure this one will work great for the PB as well.
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    im totally picking a 64gig when they drop...but i can only hope bb has wireless charging available in the next revision...hardware is solid for 1st gen.
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    It actually says on the video OMAP 4430:
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  24. UrbanGlowCam's Avatar
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    Interesting.... Well I read the difference.

    -OMAP4430 operates at up to 1 GHz
    -OMAP4440 operates at 1+ GHz

    I guess that makes more sense since it's a 1 GHz processor. It's still dual core too. This is all according to OMAP™ 4 Platform - OMAP4430/OMAP4440
  25. grahamf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UrbanGlowCam View Post
    Interesting.... Well I read the difference.

    -OMAP4430 operates at up to 1 GHz
    -OMAP4440 operates at 1+ GHz

    I guess that makes more sense since it's a 1 GHz processor. It's still dual core too. This is all according to OMAP™ 4 Platform - OMAP4430/OMAP4440
    Huh. the PDF says the 4430 only goes up to 720Mhz
    http://focus.ti.com/lit/ml/swpt034/swpt034.pdf
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