1. conix67's Avatar
    ok. honesty is bashing. ill proposition webster to change the dictionary then.

    lmao. wow man.

    a device that is THE SAME, or at the very least NOT HALF as good, but is HALF THE PRICE is NOT WORTH IT, but an overpriced and only slightly improved version of a year old device which was already a bit behind is worth FIVE HUNDRED dollars! COME ON!

    The NEW ipad still has a front camera that is pretty much obsolete in todays market... it has THE SAME ram as the PB and has MAYBE a slightly faster processor, but a bloated OS which may make that void. It has an AMAZING SCREEN but if you are talking about 'most people' needing better then HDTV resolution on a 10 inch device when they may still not even have an HDTV then im not really sure what your point is... especially when the storage capacity of the device is still the same as it was last year and with the vast improvement of screen/display resolution that space will fill up fast.

    It seems you have a big problem with front facing camera, and facetime. The facetime relies on relatively slow internet connection (especially upstream), what's the use for high resolution camera if you can't transmit even at VGA resolution reliably?


    Like i said, i am NOT bashing... i am stating FACTS. Apple praises its Facetime, yet has one of, if not THE, worst front facing cameras on ANY modern device... iPad is praised for 'innovation' yet is on par with almost all specs from the PB that came out last year. Do they have a better/bigger screen, yes, 100%they do and no one can deny that. But what is the point of such a high end screen when the rear camera is the same as the PB, and the storage capacity is still the same as last years model? Will people find use for that screen that is worth the upgrade? [especially because it cannot stream videos from the vast majority of websites] ... ... ...


    ANOTHER POINT: This is specs from the iPHONE 4 that I have had for almost TWO YEARS
    - 5-megapixel iSight camera
    - VGA-quality photos and video at up to 30 frames per second with the front camera

    So, what this is saying to i PAD users is that they are TWO years behind the tech that they are being sold as BRAND NEW.
    Just saying...

    So, to me, it seems that your argument is that MOST PEOPLE go for the ipad because it is something they dont need, and is behind in some of the things they do need... yet they are not brain washed
    You are bashing. You're not using the FACTS. I have PB, and a friend with iPhone 4s with the same camera as iPad HD. The camera on iPad HD has AUTO FOCUS, and it's FAST with wide aperture, and 8Mp (although I care less about this) it is clearly not the same as my PB. One of the biggest selling point of iPhone 4s is its camera, and it simply is at different level compared to PB's camera unfortunately. Yes, it takes video and photos a lot better than my PB does.

    You seem to have a lot of problems with VGA front facing camera and facetime. The reality is that even at VGA resolution most internet connection is not fast enough to accommodate VGA @ 30fps. I honestly don't see a need for a better camera for facetime. If it were to be used for something else, that's a different story.
    Last edited by conix67; 03-08-12 at 04:46 PM.
    03-08-12 04:34 PM
  2. FSeverino's Avatar
    You are bashing. You're not using the FACTS. I have PB, and a friend with iPhone 4s with the same camera as iPad HD. The camera on iPad HD has AUTO FOCUS, and it's FAST with wide aperture, and 8Mp (although I care less about this) it is clearly not the same as my PB. One of the biggest selling point of iPhone 4s is its camera, and it simply is at different level compared to PB's camera unfortunately. Yes, it takes video and photos a lot better than my PB does.
    but you are not mentioning the fact that it is the same camera (5MP) as the iphone 4 and LESS quality then the iphone4S. So if the BIG SELLING point is the new camera and screen then really what they are saying is that the only new thing is the screen.
    *** im not sure what you mean by the iphone 4s has the same camera as the new ipad, because the tech specs clearly state it is 5mp


    So, is getting a brand new high res screen worth $500. Im sorry, but im tired of people making 5 arguments against apple and then a fanboy arguing against ONE of those examples and thinking that means they win. You are ignoring almost everything everyone is saying because there is no way to counter it. Is the 5MP camera the best that apple can do on its flagship product? obviously not if it is at least 2 years old and worse then the cameras already being used by its newest phone. NO ONE is saying this is a bad thing (that the camera should be better), yet you have no problem flaunting the fact that your phone has a better camera then the PB... well, thats fine, but im arguing that the PB has the same camera as the I PAD and that the i PAD camera is 2 years old according to apples own product line... so saying that the iphone 4s camera is better then the PB only proves one thing, that the ipad camera (which is not even as good as the iphone 4s) is NOT TOP OF THE LINE... but you will pay $500 plus tax for it.

    that, from what i know, is the definition of BRAINWASH...
    03-08-12 04:46 PM
  3. conix67's Avatar
    This isn't some "someone on the internet is wrong" posts... I don't need you keyboard warrioring your way through the internet posts proving apple enthusiasts are wrong about invention origins...
    That just means you think you saw them but they may not really exist.
    03-08-12 04:47 PM
  4. FSeverino's Avatar
    You seem to have a lot of problems with VGA front facing camera and facetime. The reality is that even at VGA resolution most internet connection is not fast enough to accommodate VGA @ 30fps. I honestly don't see a need for a better camera for facetime. If it were to be used for something else, that's a different story.
    you dont see a need for it... thats fine, but THE FACT is that the PB has a better front facing camera... which means that if the ipad was REVOLUTIONARY it would need at least the same specs as current 'not worth it' tablets.
    03-08-12 04:49 PM
  5. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar
    but you are not mentioning the fact that it is the same camera (5MP) as the iphone 4 and LESS quality then the iphone4S.
    Actually it is the same camera as the iPhone 4s. 5 Megapixel. Multiple IR lenses. Auto face finder. That's the 4s.
    03-08-12 04:53 PM
  6. FSeverino's Avatar
    Actually it is the same camera as the iPhone 4s. 5 Megapixel. Multiple IR lenses. Auto face finder. That's the 4s.
    I was only going by the fact that HE said the iphone 4s camera was 8MP because i didnt want to look it up as it was not part of the original point i was making but just his attempt to try and prove me wrong... which he obviously failed to do. Thanks for that correction!
    03-08-12 04:55 PM
  7. tchocky77's Avatar
    Also, what good is PlayBook's front facing camera if you can't actually use it to videochat with anyone?
    03-08-12 04:55 PM
  8. kennyliu's Avatar
    Also, what good is PlayBook's front facing camera if you can't actually use it to videochat with anyone?
    There is the proprietary Video Chat app.

    Oh wait, you have friends and business partners who don't own a BB device?
    03-08-12 04:57 PM
  9. conix67's Avatar
    but you are not mentioning the fact that it is the same camera (5MP) as the iphone 4 and LESS quality then the iphone4S. So if the BIG SELLING point is the new camera and screen then really what they are saying is that the only new thing is the screen.
    *** im not sure what you mean by the iphone 4s has the same camera as the new ipad, because the tech specs clearly state it is 5mp


    So, is getting a brand new high res screen worth $500. Im sorry, but im tired of people making 5 arguments against apple and then a fanboy arguing against ONE of those examples and thinking that means they win. You are ignoring almost everything everyone is saying because there is no way to counter it. Is the 5MP camera the best that apple can do on its flagship product? obviously not if it is at least 2 years old and worse then the cameras already being used by its newest phone. NO ONE is saying this is a bad thing (that the camera should be better), yet you have no problem flaunting the fact that your phone has a better camera then the PB... well, thats fine, but im arguing that the PB has the same camera as the I PAD and that the i PAD camera is 2 years old according to apples own product line... so saying that the iphone 4s camera is better then the PB only proves one thing, that the ipad camera (which is not even as good as the iphone 4s) is NOT TOP OF THE LINE... but you will pay $500 plus tax for it.

    that, from what i know, is the definition of BRAINWASH...
    My bad on megapixels on iPad HD Camera, you're right it's 5MP but I don't consider this number as important as auto focus and better optics. My 5 year old olympus 2MP can take better picture than most phone cameras these days.

    I mentioned several times, yes the screen is the major change along with camera in hardware. This to me is more significant change than iPhone4 to iPhone 4s. No matter how some people see it, it does justify the pricing very well, there were rumors that new iPad would be priced higher.

    Anyway, going back to your original statements - I don't consider $399 for iPad 2 amazing, it's just good price. However, you cannot really compare with current PB price, which is still unofficial but all selling at this heavily discounted price. It is a good value, no doubt.

    But that's where it ends, to some it does have value but to others, it does not, and this leads back to the same old Apps argument, software ecosystem, etc.

    Simply put, I agree PB has a good hardware, just as good or better than iPad in several areas, but the value as a product is exactly where current pricing is at, demonstrated by the actual sales figure.
    03-08-12 04:59 PM
  10. FSeverino's Avatar
    Also, what good is PlayBook's front facing camera if you can't actually use it to videochat with anyone?
    the same good as having lots of friends to chat with when you have the worst camera on any device...

    o wait, i use videochat all the time because i know people with PBs and can view them better than if i was using face time with the rear camera of the 'far superior' ipad2

    nice try. but again, you have chosen ONE point of the MANY i have made and have even failed at countering that.
    03-08-12 05:00 PM
  11. kennyliu's Avatar
    the same good as having lots of friends to chat with when you have the worst camera on any device...

    o wait, i use videochat all the time because i know people with PBs and can view them better than if i was using face time with the rear camera of the 'far superior' ipad2

    nice try. but again, you have chosen ONE point of the MANY i have made and have even failed at countering that.
    It must be good to live in a world where all your frieends have BBs.
    03-08-12 05:02 PM
  12. JamesDax3's Avatar
    There is the proprietary Video Chat app.

    Oh wait, you have friends and business partners who don't own a BB device?
    You mean BB Playbooks don't you? Because saying BB devices would included BB Phones and BB Phones are the only smartphone brand that don't have FFCs. So, proprietary video chat app is all but useless.
    03-08-12 05:04 PM
  13. kennyliu's Avatar
    You mean BB Playbooks don't you? Because saying BB devices would included BB Phones and BB Phones are the only smartphone brand that don't have FFCs. So, proprietary video chat app is all but useless.
    Are you saying I can video chat with only about 1 mil people as opposed to about 100 mil people I previously thought?

    No wonder there are so many "Let's test Video Chat" threads here.
    03-08-12 05:10 PM
  14. tabletfanatic's Avatar
    I agree 100% with that. I only purchased the PB on the sale but ONLY because I could not afford ANY device at $500. If i did have $500 to spend then it would be a really tough decision between the ipad and PB... but because the current ipad is NEVER at a reasonable price i dont think i will ever be able to get one, if i ever wanted to. If RIM had the same marketing as apple then the PB would sell very similar numbers IMO
    Do you buy things on impulse and with credit?!? You do have about a year to save up and just yesterday at the Apple Store, they were selling refurbished iPad2 16Gb for $349. Refurbed stuff are almost essentially new. In fact, all my Apple products except my iPhone are bought refurbished. That's how you save money. And besides, no one is putting a gun next to your head to buy a tablet today. You made a choice, but you could have made a different choice and add $150 more to get a refurbished iPad2. When Playbook came out, it was not even reasonably priced in the first place. How can a 7" tablet priced the same as a 10" with less functions.

    It is not RIM's marketing problem that did not sell Playbook. It was management's arrogance. I mean, you should see how arrogant and egotistical Mike Lazaridis is in stock holder meetings and how they knew what's best for us. When we tell them to stop being naive and arrogant, they kept being arrogant. Steve Jobs can be arrogant and egoed a bit, but he can deliver. Don't pretend to be a has been and a one hit wonder and continued belief that you still are -- that was the attitude of RIM management until recently.
    Recently they realized that arrogance and elitism in their own beliefs do not buy sales. Consumers are your priority and you need to listen to them. Apple did, RIM just recently. But RIM has a few years gap and it will be an uphill challenge for them. As we see now with the tablet, it is a laggard. I see that you do not comprehend the magnitude of the functionality of other tablets? Samsung especially is making great strides in tablets and is a serious contender. RIM is not unless this new BBX stuff is heads shoulders above everything else. Looking at OS 2 now, I am seeing some hope. But as it is right now, the OS is still a laggard compared to Honeycomb, ICS and iOS 5.1 as well as the apps where half the time, the ones on AppWorld don't work and can crash the Playbook!
    03-08-12 05:11 PM
  15. FSeverino's Avatar
    My bad on megapixels on iPad HD Camera, you're right it's 5MP but I don't consider this number as important as auto focus and better optics. My 5 year old olympus 2MP can take better picture than most phone cameras these days.
    I agree 100% about the optics point, but that doesnt change the fact that apple has not produced a better camera in 2 years

    I mentioned several times, yes the screen is the major change along with camera in hardware. This to me is more significant change than iPhone4 to iPhone 4s. No matter how some people see it, it does justify the pricing very well, there were rumors that new iPad would be priced higher.
    NO, you are BRAINWASHED to think that ONE or TWO improvements justifies spending $500 on a NEW product when your old one runs perfectly fine. Do you buy a new car every year when the new ones come out with better Gas Mileage or w/e... NO, because yours works and you cant justify paying the price for the minor improvements! WHAT IS DIFFERENT WITH THE IPAD!!!

    Anyway, going back to your original statements - I don't consider $399 for iPad 2 amazing, it's just good price. However, you cannot really compare with current PB price, which is still unofficial but all selling at this heavily discounted price. It is a good value, no doubt.
    You may not consider the ipad price amazing, but THE MASSES do... because it is the cheapest an iPad has ever been and apple is marketing that way, and people are sheeping right into it.


    But that's where it ends, to some it does have value but to others, it does not, and this leads back to the same old Apps argument, software ecosystem, etc.

    Simply put, I agree PB has a good hardware, just as good or better than iPad in several areas, but the value as a product is exactly where current pricing is at, demonstrated by the actual sales figure.
    I could go on and on about the sales figures being due to the fact, like i have proven, that ifans are just blindly buying devices and other things, but that is not the point. The point I was making is that the NEW ipad is NOT worth the upgrade price and NOT REVOLUTIONARY.

    If you ask me, and many others, RIMs FIRST tablet is still fair competition to apples THIRD generation product, yet RIMs FIRST entry into the market was BASHED and said not to be 'innovative'. OK, if it wasnt innovative then why is the THIRD ipad just now getting the SAME ram and SAME MP front camera (given with slightly better optics) and STILL has a horrible front facing camera with MAYBE slightly better processor. Im sorry but, by definition, having SLIGHTLY better specs then a 'non-innovative' year old device CANNOT make your product revolutionary. The only thing, as i have said, is the screen. Apple is always a step ahead on the screens... but im not buying a tablet to watch movies on something the size of a magazine, and im not sure many people are, so the question is WHY are they only focusing on the screen and WHAT can it be used for if everything else is still 'on par' with specs. If your screen is 2x better then everyone elses would you not need slightly better specs to run it sufficiently?... well, the ipad doesnt have that.
    03-08-12 05:13 PM
  16. FSeverino's Avatar
    Do you buy things on impulse and with credit?!? You do have about a year to save up and just yesterday at the Apple Store, they were selling refurbished iPad2 16Gb for $349. Refurbed stuff are almost essentially new. In fact, all my Apple products except my iPhone are bought refurbished. That's how you save money. And besides, no one is putting a gun next to your head to buy a tablet today. You made a choice, but you could have made a different choice and add $150 more to get a refurbished iPad2. When Playbook came out, it was not even reasonably priced in the first place. How can a 7" tablet priced the same as a 10" with less functions.

    It is not RIM's marketing problem that did not sell Playbook. It was management's arrogance. I mean, you should see how arrogant and egotistical Mike Lazaridis is in stock holder meetings and how they knew what's best for us. When we tell them to stop being naive and arrogant, they kept being arrogant. Steve Jobs can be arrogant and egoed a bit, but he can deliver. Don't pretend to be a has been and a one hit wonder and continued belief that you still are -- that was the attitude of RIM management until recently.
    Recently they realized that arrogance and elitism in their own beliefs do not buy sales. Consumers are your priority and you need to listen to them. Apple did, RIM just recently. But RIM has a few years gap and it will be an uphill challenge for them. As we see now with the tablet, it is a laggard. I see that you do not comprehend the magnitude of the functionality of other tablets? Samsung especially is making great strides in tablets and is a serious contender. RIM is not unless this new BBX stuff is heads shoulders above everything else. Looking at OS 2 now, I am seeing some hope. But as it is right now, the OS is still a laggard compared to Honeycomb, ICS and iOS 5.1 as well as the apps where half the time, the ones on AppWorld don't work and can crash the Playbook!

    I agree about the management issues... but to tell me how to spend my money is just like me telling you to save $300 and buy a device with a smaller screen but just as good as the ipad2. You cant compare buying a used item to buying a new item. I could buy a used PB from someone that is ignorant of the true potential for $100 ... which makes your $350 ipad worth $250 more than the playbook.
    Can you tell me that spending $250 MORE on a device which is 3 inches smaller and does 90% of the same things (and some of them much better) is 'wasting' money... because i can sure tell you that i SAVED $300 by buying the PB over Ipad.


    Also, im getting a bit confused over the video chat sub-discussion. All i said was that the PB had a better front camera and an ifan said it would be no use if i cant videochat. But I can video chat so the argument is over.

    If i can chat with 10 people or 10 million the only difference is the NUMBER of people i can chat with, not HOW GOOD THE QUALITY OF THE VIDEO IS. So using the 'i have access to more people' argument is really doing nothing. I have 400 or so friends on facebook... does that mean my facebook app is better then someone who has 200 friends?
    Last edited by FSeverino; 03-08-12 at 05:22 PM.
    03-08-12 05:17 PM
  17. conix67's Avatar
    NO, you are BRAINWASHED to think that ONE or TWO improvements justifies spending $500 on a NEW product when your old one runs perfectly fine. Do you buy a new car every year when the new ones come out with better Gas Mileage or w/e... NO, because yours works and you cant justify paying the price for the minor improvements! WHAT IS DIFFERENT WITH THE IPAD!!!
    OK, point well taken for spending $500 just for display difference. You forgot that iPad 2, even when new iPad price is now discounted to $399, holds the value well. So if you truly wanted to upgrade, you wouldn't be paying $499 for a new iPad, you will pay the difference between the value of your old iPad2 and new iPad, which should be far less than $499.

    You can say the same for any other vendors product, if you're purchasing new just to upgrade. I don't think anyone is thinking $499 is justified as an upgrade price if you already have an iPad 2.
    03-08-12 05:22 PM
  18. JamesDax3's Avatar
    The video chat app on the playbook is all but useless. Not totally useless, but pretty useless. I have dozens of friends but only one with a Playbook. I can video chat with her using the Playbooks "proprietary" video chat app. As for everyone else? Well it's a good thing I have Skype on my HD7.
    03-08-12 05:28 PM
  19. conix67's Avatar
    Also, im getting a bit confused over the video chat sub-discussion. All i said was that the PB had a better front camera and an ifan said it would be no use if i cant videochat. But I can video chat so the argument is over.
    I think video chat is an awesome feature that is well implemented, but just like all other problems it is under utilized. For those who have family and friends with PBs, that works better, but for most others who are not in this situation, it is useless. Come on, you can't even chat with your other friends who have BB phone! I have plenty of friends with BB phones.

    On the other hand, in Apple land iPad2, iPhones, iPods all support Facetime. I can chat with anyone anywhere because most families have one of these products. You just can't beat that.

    On that front camera thing, for video chatting, having stuck with VGA camera is sad but VGA is still fairly high resolution (640x480) and you'll have hard time transmitting high quality video even at that resolution over DSL links, where upstream is usually capped at 500Kbps. Maybe that will improve in the future, but 5MP for front camera for video chatting, unless done over LAN, is not feasible. It still has uses as a still camera though.
    03-08-12 05:28 PM
  20. FSeverino's Avatar
    OK, point well taken for spending $500 just for display difference. You forgot that iPad 2, even when new iPad price is now discounted to $399, holds the value well. So if you truly wanted to upgrade, you wouldn't be paying $499 for a new iPad, you will pay the difference between the value of your old iPad2 and new iPad, which should be far less than $499.

    You can say the same for any other vendors product, if you're purchasing new just to upgrade. I don't think anyone is thinking $499 is justified as an upgrade price if you already have an iPad 2.
    Really... i bet AT LEAST 50% of ipad2 users will think otherwise. Im not saying they WILL buy it right now, but eventually people will make the purchase or at least REALLY think about it.

    and yes, 100% agreed with ipad holding its value well... but i am also trying to sell my 32GB playbook which i have kept in PERFECT condition (bc i bought the 64GB!). So, as you said, with any new device you are only paying the difference between what you sell the old and what you pay for the new. No one can argue that point. But, why would you sell your perfectly fine ipad at a loss to pay more out of pocket just for a better screen and other specs that should have already been in the ipad2?

    The argument that the new ipad isnt worth the price of the upgrade is tightly connected to the fact that there is not much improvements being made in any of the apple product lines. If you NEED the best tablet screen, then go ahead and buy the best tablet screen which IS WITHOUT A DOUBT the new ipad. But if you wait one year (because that is the known cycle) then you will have this exact same screen (or maybe a bit better) with slightly better specs. OR, if apple really does what it says (like from ihpne 3gs to iphone4) you will have a WAY BETTER device for the same price you would pay this current model. You have one of the best devices available right now, no one is saying the ipad sucks, and it works FINE. WAIT!

    but, of course this wont happen because the iFans NEED the newest and best device.

    SideNote: I am NOT mentioning the fact, like others have, that the NEW ipad is bigger and heavier then the ipad2... because really, adding the minimal weight but including the much better screen and battery is something people should be willing to agree with (just letting you see that i am NOT bashing the device, but merely stating facts)
    03-08-12 05:33 PM
  21. kennyliu's Avatar
    Really... i bet AT LEAST 50% of ipad2 users will think otherwise. Im not saying they WILL buy it right now, but eventually people will make the purchase or at least REALLY think about it.

    and yes, 100% agreed with ipad holding its value well... but i am also trying to sell my 32GB playbook which i have kept in PERFECT condition (bc i bought the 64GB!). So, as you said, with any new device you are only paying the difference between what you sell the old and what you pay for the new. No one can argue that point. But, why would you sell your perfectly fine ipad at a loss to pay more out of pocket just for a better screen and other specs that should have already been in the ipad2?

    The argument that the new ipad isnt worth the price of the upgrade is tightly connected to the fact that there is not much improvements being made in any of the apple product lines. If you NEED the best tablet screen, then go ahead and buy the best tablet screen which IS WITHOUT A DOUBT the new ipad. But if you wait one year (because that is the known cycle) then you will have this exact same screen (or maybe a bit better) with slightly better specs. OR, if apple really does what it says (like from ihpne 3gs to iphone4) you will have a WAY BETTER device for the same price you would pay this current model. You have one of the best devices available right now, no one is saying the ipad sucks, and it works FINE. WAIT!

    but, of course this wont happen because the iFans NEED the newest and best device.

    SideNote: I am NOT mentioning the fact, like others have, that the NEW ipad is bigger and heavier then the ipad2... because really, adding the minimal weight but including the much better screen and battery is something people should be willing to agree with (just letting you see that i am NOT bashing the device, but merely stating facts)

    The thing is that the iPad 2 owners can easily sell their old iPads for 300-350 and upgrade with minimal cost. Same can't be said about PB owners, should a new iteration of PB be released.
    Last edited by kennyliu; 03-08-12 at 05:39 PM.
    03-08-12 05:37 PM
  22. FSeverino's Avatar
    I think video chat is an awesome feature that is well implemented, but just like all other problems it is under utilized. For those who have family and friends with PBs, that works better, but for most others who are not in this situation, it is useless. Come on, you can't even chat with your other friends who have BB phone! I have plenty of friends with BB phones.

    On the other hand, in Apple land iPad2, iPhones, iPods all support Facetime. I can chat with anyone anywhere because most families have one of these products. You just can't beat that.

    On that front camera thing, for video chatting, having stuck with VGA camera is sad but VGA is still fairly high resolution (640x480) and you'll have hard time transmitting high quality video even at that resolution over DSL links, where upstream is usually capped at 500Kbps. Maybe that will improve in the future, but 5MP for front camera for video chatting, unless done over LAN, is not feasible. It still has uses as a still camera though.
    Agian, this is where lack of knowledge comes in. I agree that there are LESS people to talk to on PB, but that has NOTHING to do with the camera. My gf recently went to kenya to help build a school. She was away for 10 days and if i had the choice of seeing her using a VGA camera or the PB video chat (we both have PBs) it would be hands down the PB because THE CAMERA IS BETTER.

    Im sorry, but the arguments being made here are more inline with APPS or ecosystem development and have nothing to do with camera quality. This is the exact line of reasoning that leads to the playbook not being a good device, everything comes down to something that it shouldnt. When the ipad was first released it did not have 10 million face time contacts, it did not have 25 trillion apps. It DOES have those things now and that is a testament to how well apple has done in marketing and pushing the device, but to say that another device is NOT good because it ISNT an ipad is not a valid argument. I can easily say the ipad IS NOT good because it doest have as good a camera as the PB... but when i do that everyone says i am BASHING the ipad. How does that work?
    that is the BRAINWASHING i am talking about.
    world saviour likes this.
    03-08-12 05:39 PM
  23. kenshaw's Avatar
    Really... i bet AT LEAST 50% of ipad2 users will think otherwise. Im not saying they WILL buy it right now, but eventually people will make the purchase or at least REALLY think about it.

    and yes, 100% agreed with ipad holding its value well... but i am also trying to sell my 32GB playbook which i have kept in PERFECT condition (bc i bought the 64GB!). So, as you said, with any new device you are only paying the difference between what you sell the old and what you pay for the new. No one can argue that point. But, why would you sell your perfectly fine ipad at a loss to pay more out of pocket just for a better screen and other specs that should have already been in the ipad2?

    The argument that the new ipad isnt worth the price of the upgrade is tightly connected to the fact that there is not much improvements being made in any of the apple product lines. If you NEED the best tablet screen, then go ahead and buy the best tablet screen which IS WITHOUT A DOUBT the new ipad. But if you wait one year (because that is the known cycle) then you will have this exact same screen (or maybe a bit better) with slightly better specs. OR, if apple really does what it says (like from ihpne 3gs to iphone4) you will have a WAY BETTER device for the same price you would pay this current model. You have one of the best devices available right now, no one is saying the ipad sucks, and it works FINE. WAIT!

    but, of course this wont happen because the iFans NEED the newest and best device.

    SideNote: I am NOT mentioning the fact, like others have, that the NEW ipad is bigger and heavier then the ipad2... because really, adding the minimal weight but including the much better screen and battery is something people should be willing to agree with (just letting you see that i am NOT bashing the device, but merely stating facts)
    Quick question did you buy your 32GB PB for $599 plus tax?
    03-08-12 05:40 PM
  24. FSeverino's Avatar
    The thing is that the iPad 2 owners can easily sell their old iPads for 300-350 and upgrade with minimal cost. Same can't be said about PB owners, should a new iteration of PB be released.
    how do you know this?
    i would have gladly bought a used 64GB playbook instead of a new one, there just isnt a good avenue for that and i DO NOT trust sites like ebay or kijiji.

    I paid my 32GB PB $330 after taxes and I have many people offering me $200 for it (although i am looking for a little more). That is a $130 difference. Where the 16GB iPad2 cost was $500 and selling at $350 is a loss of $150. Also, because it is NOW $399 NEW and with warranty why would someone buy it used and without warranty for $300?

    The ONLY reason ipads keep there value is because the current models are too expensive and the 'new' components arent worth the upgrade price, so the people that get fooled into upgrading are losing $150 plus spending an extra $150 - $200 to get that new version of the ipad which is slightly better then the one they just sold for $300. In my mind, the people buying the used ipad2s for $300 are the people getting the best deal out of the new ipad release (although i would personally spring the extra $100 just to have it under some sort of warranty)
    03-08-12 05:45 PM
  25. FSeverino's Avatar
    Quick question did you buy your 32GB PB for $599 plus tax?
    quick question: because the current price is $249, and has been for 4 months, and is still $150 cheaper then 16GB ipad2 DOES YOUR QUESTION HAVE ANY RELEVANCE?

    just because i dont really care about the fact that the question is not even close to on topic.
    i bought the playbook (which i stated after your post) for $299 plus tax. NOT because it was on sale, but because I DO NOT HAVE $600 to spend on ANY TABLET AT ALL. and the fact that i could get something that was pretty much the same as the ipad for half the price was pretty sweet as well.
    03-08-12 05:47 PM
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