[Calimero1987]

i have a pb. it works nicely. apps run fluently, i have my messaging figured out, my calendar keeps me up to date and i have some games for my sparetime. if i want to, i can bother to watch some more or less legal movies on flash-websites.

and still, so many people are complaining and sorta putting the ipad millions of miles above the playbook for no real reason.

i had an ipad2 and i gave it to my cousin - as a gift.
without apps, that piece wasn't even worth half the playbook. i had to download extra apps for messaging (oh wait, i can't attach 2 files at the same time? guess what: I'M A BLOODY STUDENT),
all the office apps were not included and when i downloaded them, they didn't display my excel-data correctly (oh sorry, there should be a graph right? well, we inform you: this can't be displayed. BUT the interface looks smooth hum?)
and it was larger than a netbook.

i think what's happening is, that apple-fan-kiddies just don't care about anything. as long as they hold their toys in their hands and show off with tons of useless apps, everything is alright. it really makes me sick.

i'm sure things could be better on the pb. and that's the good thing about the blackberry community, that distinguishes us from another platform: we care about our stuff, we want it to improve and don't follow like mindless sheep.
but we shouldn't get soaked in by that apple-fan-hype and think we are some low-price junk-platform.
i don't know how low apple could go with their prices if they had to, but i'm sure their chinese factories got them a solid margin.

i don't want you to be patient or hold some pathetic "just wait until" speech here.
we don't have to wait.


ps: ever tried to do some work with an 10'' ipad on a train? -me neither. too embarrassing

[Superfly_FR]

Calimero ... �a sent le compatriote lol.
Welcome aboard, anyway.

I do not compare my PB with Ipad. PB is a mobility tool, Ipad is a residential tablet.
I mean, both are good, it's simply not intended to the exact same usage.
A lot of my friends have Ipads and enjoy it; but they don't carry them on a day basis. They take it with them for weekends or holidays and they are happy with that.
Mine is in my jacket pocket, like my phone; ready to help, work or entertain, H24.

[theegoldenone]

People got fooled into thinking that you can't do WITHOUT apps. They took it hook, line, and sinker. Now folks NEED apps because they've been led to believe so. Unfortunate but true.

[bobauckland]

i have a pb. it works nicely. apps run fluently, i have my messaging figured out, my calendar keeps me up to date and i have some games for my sparetime. if i want to, i can bother to watch some more or less legal movies on flash-websites.

and still, so many people are complaining and sorta putting the ipad millions of miles above the playbook for no real reason.

i had an ipad2 and i gave it to my cousin - as a gift.
without apps, that piece wasn't even worth half the playbook. i had to download extra apps for messaging (oh wait, i can't attach 2 files at the same time? guess what: I'M A BLOODY STUDENT),
all the office apps were not included and when i downloaded them, they didn't display my excel-data correctly (oh sorry, there should be a graph right? well, we inform you: this can't be displayed. BUT the interface looks smooth hum?)
and it was larger than a netbook.

i think what's happening is, that apple-fan-kiddies just don't care about anything. as long as they hold their toys in their hands and show off with tons of useless apps, everything is alright. it really makes me sick.

i'm sure things could be better on the pb. and that's the good thing about the blackberry community, that distinguishes us from another platform: we care about our stuff, we want it to improve and don't follow like mindless sheep.
but we shouldn't get soaked in by that apple-fan-hype and think we are some low-price junk-platform.
i don't know how low apple could go with their prices if they had to, but i'm sure their chinese factories got them a solid margin.

i don't want you to be patient or hold some pathetic "just wait until" speech here.
we don't have to wait.


ps: ever tried to do some work with an 10'' ipad on a train? -me neither. too embarrassing

Which would explain why people were insisting PB OS 2 wasn't needed, why people declare that BBOS7 hasn't flopped despite all evidence saying it has, why people say the 9900 is an upgrade in every way when it isn't and why people say that Skype and Netflix isn't needed on a tablet and people who ask for it are silly.
You need to reconsider your post, nonsensical fanboys affect all platforms.

[Superfly_FR]

Which would explain why people were insisting PB OS 2 wasn't needed, why people declare that BBOS7 hasn't flopped despite all evidence saying it has, why people say the 9900 is an upgrade in every way when it isn't and why people say that Skype and Netflix isn't needed on a tablet and people who ask for it are silly.
You need to reconsider your post, nonsensical fanboys affect all platforms.

1/ OP presents his current usage of PB with OS 2.0
2/ What evidences ?
3/ It is, my previous was a 9000 and I can't stop counting upgrades
4/ I don't use skype and netflix isn't available in my country.

Definitive assertions without further args could also be nonsensical, sometimes.
OP is expressing his point of view, being a further owner of an ipad2 ... he's enthusiast.

[dbmalloy]

Which would explain why people were insisting PB OS 2 wasn't needed, why people declare that BBOS7 hasn't flopped despite all evidence saying it has, why people say the 9900 is an upgrade in every way when it isn't and why people say that Skype and Netflix isn't needed on a tablet and people who ask for it are silly.
You need to reconsider your post, nonsensical fanboys affect all platforms.

I am unsure what post you are responding to... I do not see any of the points you are addressing in the origonal post..... I do not know of many who insisted OS2 was not needed... On the contrary they were chomping at the bit for it... If you go though the old threads I do not see a Keep the old OS movement welling up....As for BBOS7... Again I do not know where your idea that people are saying BBOS7 is such a success...RIM has made it clear that os is a bridge to BB10.... As with all RIM incarnations to that point they will be orphaned.... RIM has already said it will not be upgradable.....The 9900 issue is really a matter of opininon...Is it a speed demon.... no .... but the OS is better....Yes Skype and Netflix are a prestige thing.... Again I have seen people like myself that has no use for them but if you look on the forum the vast majority do want it... hence the petition....

I absolutley have no idea what the fanboy comment is about so I cannot respond to it....

[OttawaGabe]

and still, so many people are complaining and sorta putting the ipad millions of miles above the playbook for no real reason.

i think what's happening is, that apple-fan-kiddies just don't care about anything. as long as they hold their toys in their hands and show off with tons of useless apps, everything is alright. it really makes me sick.

Be happy with what you have. Your needs are not other people's needs.. isn't that obvious?

You don't need to put other people down to prop yourself up.

[sgt_snacks-64]

People got fooled into thinking that you can't do WITHOUT apps. They took it hook, line, and sinker. Now folks NEED apps because they've been led to believe so. Unfortunate but true.

Fantastic post! This is something I learnt quickly with the Playbook.

When you have a good, capable browser along with other built in goodies, you just don't need apps.

IMO, it's a marketing ploy. "We have 100 Million (fart) apps on our platform", as in trying to say "There could be something for you here!". But to be honest, I've found on the Playbook that I really don't NEED apps to be productive, it's all there already.

Don't get me wrong, apps are nice to have, but I've been browsing the App World for the past couple of weeks, and I just can't find anything that I've thought "z0mgz I needz that naow!", maybe the odd game, but nothing that's going to "change my life".

Yes, I understand people do NEED some apps (i.e. Skype for long distance video-calls). I get that, but that's the only one I can think of from the top of my head (I don't use Skype, so I can't even begin to understand the fustration of not having it on the Playbook).

My two cents

[aneftp]

I get it even though the OP doesn't "get it". And I own both Playbook and iPad 2.

The issue facing the Playbook was that it was an incomplete product when launched almost one year ago. And RIM tried to price it at the same price point as the market leader. That's just suicide.

If RIM released the finished Playbook product with the Os 2.0 engine originally and priced it at $399 they might have had a chance.

After using 2.0 for a week now. The web browser is much faster. Camera is faster. And finally calendar and email native functions.

Sadly Playbook is considered a failed product by many techies such as me. Techies like me recommend products to non techies.

Look I see the playbooks potential. I carry it to work with me. I know how to use it. Unfortunately for RIM to make a dent they must convince the public it's a worthy product and not a Clarence item at $199.

Look it's just not RIM that has failed in the tablet market. Even Samsung has admitted they are not making much dent in the market.

The tablet market is starting to turn into what Apple did to the music player market with their iPod.

Android phones have succeeded against iPhone because they are aggressively priced. And carriers get huge discounts and in turn can offer subsides to gain traction in the market.

With the tablet market there is very little chance to offer subsides. No one likes to pay extra for data plans unless their company is paying for it.

[kennyliu]

Fantastic post! This is something I learnt quickly with the Playbook.

When you have a good, capable browser along with other built in goodies, you just don't need apps.

IMO, it's a marketing ploy. "We have 100 Million (fart) apps on our platform", as in trying to say "There could be something for you here!". But to be honest, I've found on the Playbook that I really don't NEED apps to be productive, it's all there already.

Don't get me wrong, apps are nice to have, but I've been browsing the App World for the past couple of weeks, and I just can't find anything that I've thought "z0mgz I needz that naow!", maybe the odd game, but nothing that's going to "change my life".

Yes, I understand people do NEED some apps (i.e. Skype for long distance video-calls). I get that, but that's the only one I can think of from the top of my head (I don't use Skype, so I can't even begin to understand the fustration of not having it on the Playbook).

My two cents

Again, the same argument from a person who probably has not seen the app selection on other platforms or use the tablet for browsing only.

FYI, Android has very capable browsers with features much exceeding those in the PB's browser, but people still download and use apps. And no, people are not stupid and no, they don't only use fart apps. Just go to Android market (forget App World, there is virtually nothing there to see), browse the top app selections and you'll see that there are quite a few useful/quality apps there.

In summary, I believe that a browser on a seven-inch display touch operated device, no matter how capable, will never be able to substitute for certain apps. Most webpages are written with desktop PCs in mind and unless this changes, apps will be the major factor to consider. Besides, apps let you use your tablet more efficiently by allowing you to get what you want in just a click or two instead of doing everything in a browser (e.g. email).

[anon(106603)]

OP's ignorance is showing.

[BB_Bmore]

Mindless folks such as those who think "the little green guy thingy from Android is cute" are a big reason why Android has done as well as it has. I'm a open minded U.S citizen who has owned Android, Iphone and BlackBerry. Each has their pros and cons but for me it's BlackBerry that works best.

[goku_vegeta]

Fantastic post! This is something I learnt quickly with the Playbook.

When you have a good, capable browser along with other built in goodies, you just don't need apps.

IMO, it's a marketing ploy. "We have 100 Million (fart) apps on our platform", as in trying to say "There could be something for you here!". But to be honest, I've found on the Playbook that I really don't NEED apps to be productive, it's all there already.

Don't get me wrong, apps are nice to have, but I've been browsing the App World for the past couple of weeks, and I just can't find anything that I've thought "z0mgz I needz that naow!", maybe the odd game, but nothing that's going to "change my life".

Yes, I understand people do NEED some apps (i.e. Skype for long distance video-calls). I get that, but that's the only one I can think of from the top of my head (I don't use Skype, so I can't even begin to understand the fustration of not having it on the Playbook).

My two cents

I can agree here, as well as relate. Being a technology reviewer, I've dealt with multiple tablets before the PlayBook, heck the PlayBook was the third tablet I had laid hands on and played around with (no pun intended, the first and second being the Motorola Xoom and the iPad respectively). Despite the fact that the Motorola Xoom was quite capable being a Tegra 2 based tablet, I still used apps on it to some degree. Admittedly some of these apps had been attempts to repackage what you see on the web into a tablet friendly package such as many news portal apps and so forth.


When I got the PlayBook, I had initially been pretty excited about how well it could handle daily tasks, when I had got it, It updated to 1.0.8, worked pretty well. When I updated to Tablet OS 2.0 in the early morning hours of February 21st, it was like I had gotten a new PlayBook, I definitely liked the browser improvements. I found that the PlayBook and Xoom had pretty good browsers, the reason why I didn't use the browser as extensively as on the xoom was because the PlayBook didn't really have a super wide app selection.


Although the browsing experience on the PlayBook made up for that. Another advantage I found was the UI consistency. Obviously if you will be using the browser to replace web based applets you'll be using the same interface which is a definite plus. All in all, I also believe the browser has been a highly comparative and sometimes offers an absolute advantage over web based applets.

[miata]

People buy and recommend the iPad because it is a low risk purchase. It is reliable, fast and you don't have to worry about applications.

If people did a little more researc like the folks on the Crackberry forums they might discover that the. Playbook is also fast and reliable -- and that it has every app they really need on a tablet. They might even figure out that Playbbok multitasking is more productive than iOS. Blackberry phone users might take it even further and figure out that bridge is so cool that they wouldn't consider anything else.

Unfortunately, most people don't do any research. They see their that their friends have iPads and are quite happy.

I have an iPad2, TouchPad and Playbook -- and rarely touch anything other than the Playbook. However, I would be very reluctant to recommend a Playbook over an iPad unless the person had a Blackberry phone and did enough research to determine that they could live without a bunch of apps that they are not going to get on the Playbook.

The Playbook might be perfect for me, but I realize that other people have different needs. When the Playbook has Kindle, Skype, Pandora, Google Maps, Webex, Netflix, and maybe a few other critical apps I would recommend the Playbook to friends without any reservation.

I don't see how anybody can expect the Playbook to get major traction without some of the killer tablet apps I list above. And yes. I know that some of these can be sideloaded. And I know that there are web sites for some things, but it is not the same.

Sent from my BlackBerry Runtime for Android Apps using Tapatalk

[aneftp]

People buy and recommend the iPad because it is a low risk purchase. It is reliable, fast and you don't have to worry about applications.

If people did a little more researc like the folks on the Crackberry forums they might discover that the. Playbook is also fast and reliable -- and that it has every app they really need on a tablet. They might even figure out that Playbbok multitasking is more productive than iOS. Blackberry phone users might take it even further and figure out that bridge is so cool that they wouldn't consider anything else.

Unfortunately, most people don't do any research. They see their that their friends have iPads and are quite happy.

I have an iPad2, TouchPad and Playbook -- and rarely touch anything other than the Playbook. However, I would be very reluctant to recommend a Playbook over an iPad unless the person had a Blackberry phone and did enough research to determine that they could live without a bunch of apps that they are not going to get on the Playbook.

The Playbook might be perfect for me, but I realize that other people have different needs. When the Playbook has Kindle, Skype, Pandora, Google Maps, Webex, Netflix, and maybe a few other critical apps I would recommend the Playbook to friends without any reservation.

I don't see how anybody can expect the Playbook to get major traction without some of the killer tablet apps I list above. And yes. I know that some of these can be sideloaded. And I know that there are web sites for some things, but it is not the same.

Sent from my BlackBerry Runtime for Android Apps using Tapatalk

That's exactly how I feel. When non techies ask me for product advice. I don't think what I would be happy with. I think what product best fits the average consumers needs.

[hpjrt]

But the "average consumer", does not fit into the same box where you want to store them. The needs of the "average consumer" are as different from each other as those of any other "group".

Unless you are asking the right questions, you should not be advising anyone.

[bradu1]

I totally understand the op's opinion. I own an iPod, a Playbook, and had a Samsung Galaxy for about a week. I understand people wanting iPads. They're popular, and people want popular, but that's not it. They have all those games. And to me that's what it comes down to and why I have my iPod.
My PlayBook has truly become my laptop replacement. The last time I used my laptop was to plug in my playbook and mess around with the desktop manager. I take it with me everywhere, and am totally connected. I'm not a gamer, so I never used my laptop for that. However, I listen to podcasts, and my iPod is just perfect for that. And on lunchbreaks some of those mind numbing games are great. But the ios is just a pain for productivity to me. The email just doesn't seem to work right. The calendar is useless as it doesn't go everywhere with the me, yet my phone does, which my playbook syncs to. And calling that multitasking is a joke. Seriously, who would call that multitasking if it didn't come from the great fruit?
And android.... Yeah, looks like it does a lot.... But it was so user-unfriendly I regretted buying it within an hour. And the app store? Wow, so many apps! But, lets download it and see if it works on this device..maybe oh, this one doesn't either? Darn. Thank God I finally kept a receipt for something.
But honestly, today, I showed a co-worker my playbook, and he was very impressed. But I let him know, if he's looking for games, this wasn't the tablet for him. And he has an Android phone, so he's used to that os. And I told him he'd probably be best off with an Android.
So, my opinion, my playbook does everything I want. I don't need apps. But I want them. If for no other reason than to never have to tell someone this may not be the perfect tablet for them like it is for me.

[omega supreme]

I totally understand the op's opinion. I own an iPod, a Playbook, and had a Samsung Galaxy for about a week. I understand people wanting iPads. They're popular, and people want popular, but that's not it. They have all those games. And to me that's what it comes down to and why I have my iPod.
My PlayBook has truly become my laptop replacement. The last time I used my laptop was to plug in my playbook and mess around with the desktop manager. I take it with me everywhere, and am totally connected. I'm not a gamer, so I never used my laptop for that. However, I listen to podcasts, and my iPod is just perfect for that. And on lunchbreaks some of those mind numbing games are great. But the ios is just a pain for productivity to me. The email just doesn't seem to work right. The calendar is useless as it doesn't go everywhere with the me, yet my phone does, which my playbook syncs to. And calling that multitasking is a joke. Seriously, who would call that multitasking if it didn't come from the great fruit?
And android.... Yeah, looks like it does a lot.... But it was so user-unfriendly I regretted buying it within an hour. And the app store? Wow, so many apps! But, lets download it and see if it works on this device..maybe oh, this one doesn't either? Darn. Thank God I finally kept a receipt for something.
But honestly, today, I showed a co-worker my playbook, and he was very impressed. But I let him know, if he's looking for games, this wasn't the tablet for him. And he has an Android phone, so he's used to that os. And I told him he'd probably be best off with an Android.
So, my opinion, my playbook does everything I want. I don't need apps. But I want them. If for no other reason than to never have to tell someone this may not be the perfect tablet for them like it is for me.

Actually, if your friend is looking for games then you should let him know i play snes, and genesis games on my playbook.

[bradu1]

I don't think either of us are tech savvy enough to do that. Lol

[pooger]

People buy and recommend the iPad because it is a low risk purchase. It is reliable, fast and you don't have to worry about applications.

If people did a little more researc like the folks on the Crackberry forums they might discover that the. Playbook is also fast and reliable -- and that it has every app they really need on a tablet. They might even figure out that Playbbok multitasking is more productive than iOS. Blackberry phone users might take it even further and figure out that bridge is so cool that they wouldn't consider anything else.

Unfortunately, most people don't do any research. They see their that their friends have iPads and are quite happy.

I have an iPad2, TouchPad and Playbook -- and rarely touch anything other than the Playbook. However, I would be very reluctant to recommend a Playbook over an iPad unless the person had a Blackberry phone and did enough research to determine that they could live without a bunch of apps that they are not going to get on the Playbook.

The Playbook might be perfect for me, but I realize that other people have different needs. When the Playbook has Kindle, Skype, Pandora, Google Maps, Webex, Netflix, and maybe a few other critical apps I would recommend the Playbook to friends without any reservation.

I don't see how anybody can expect the Playbook to get major traction without some of the killer tablet apps I list above. And yes. I know that some of these can be sideloaded. And I know that there are web sites for some things, but it is not the same.

Sent from my BlackBerry Runtime for Android Apps using Tapatalk

this is also EXACTLY how I feel. I love my playbook and I use it quite often but I don't blame my girlfriend for not using hers. it just doesn't give her what she's looking for in a tablet. she would want hootsuite, and hulu, and yelp, and a browser that renders websites quicker. I could sideload kindle for her but then she has to reboot every 5 hours because sideloaded apps seem to leak memory everywhere.

the only thing she loves about it is the price, wakeup from standby speed, and our ability to easily videochat quickly. she'd probably love the battery time but she doesn't use it enough to care

Sent from my BlackBerry Runtime for Android Apps using Tapatalk

[Calimero1987]

hey guys, here's the whiny op again.

when i wrote this yesterday night, i was quite fukced up because i read lot's of threads about how everyone would buy an ipad if it was at around the same price as the pb. and i thought i should do something against that probably unconsidered spirit.
becoming a whiny fan-kid myself was actually not intended, but i somehow managed to sound like one. and maybe it is necessary from time to time.

i want to add, that i have friends using android tabs and i myself (as i already mentioned) had an ipad which i used quite frequently.
it was just not what i needed. i had work to do - and the ipad is just not the right pad to do so. as hilarious as it might seem, but speed-dialing-numbers, email, messaging and document-editing are still the things that i need most in phone and tablet. and i sure can understand that there are people who don't need that. for my part: i want to get my things done and i need it fast.

still. sorry for not pointing out that there sure are reasons for getting another tablet than the pb. just didn't feel like it the moment i wrote my post. i probably wanted to spread some badly needed playbook-patriotism

anyways, thanks for your replies so far and the ones to come

[Alex_Hong]

Good write up.



I would like to digress a little to join in the "apps" discussion though. I think apps are necessary on a mobile product such as a tablet and phone. They are not designed to be like a desktop/laptop. even on the 11.6" macbook air i found the screen to be a little on the small side. Apps are basically good in the way that it can be optimised for a small display, making consumption easier & more suitable for touch controls. Also when the interface is already stored within the device itself, the app only has to pull data for information, without the need for loading the interface. Making it faster for users to do what they want. Just take the example of the app "tapatalk" on a mobile device, pulling just the content within the forums is faster than using the browser to load the entire forums with all its user interface. At least for me anyway. Twitter as well, loading the website is slower than using the twitter app, and it does everything that i need it to do on it, and maybe even more. I'm not saying we need as many apps as Apple's app store, but i'm just saying would be nice to have the essential & popular apps.

Which would explain why people were insisting PB OS 2 wasn't needed, why people declare that BBOS7 hasn't flopped despite all evidence saying it has, why people say the 9900 is an upgrade in every way when it isn't and why people say that Skype and Netflix isn't needed on a tablet and people who ask for it are silly.

You need to reconsider your post, nonsensical fanboys affect all platforms.

IMO, the way you phrased it sounds a little too agressive, but i agree with you on this about it affecting all platforms (except for the BBOS 7 flopping part). The definition of flop is extremely subjective, and can vary depending on who is looking at it. Different people have different opinions and definition of something flopping. it is too much of a variable to be considered a fact or evidence, it can simply be an opinion. Other than that, asking/demanding for more isn't a bad thing. Improvements are always good.



also, whether 9900 is an upgrade in every way is subjective as some features are less significant to some compared to others. If I were to just look at specs, I would agree that 9900 is not an upgrade in every way. But if I were to consider the overall updates to the phone, I would say its a significant upgrade instead. Bonus question, if you just look at specs, would you consider iphone 4s an upgrade in every way?

[currentodysseys]

In my opinion pb was a game changer in the tablet industry for my type of consumer and the reasons have been discussed in many threads again and again and they will again and again...

I also use it for work as i have to be on the road quite often, this is its main use, to replace my laptop when i am not in the office if possible and my pb does that to perfection (assuming you work your excels well in the office, this indeed needs improvement if any is possible imo).

A strong point where i think the op is right, is that with the pb you are less app dependant in order to perform the tasks i need. Actually my presentations of our online services platform has gained "added value" in some ways, when i display it on my pb fully operational and even through bridge... My powerpoint presentations are there as well and now with remote i can actually work them around in a smooth convenient and effective way (again given that you prepare them well on the laptop or pc, wish i could make minor changes).

I also use xl files for data gathering that can later be imported in our back office systems or maintain client info logs and crm them later. I DO find a faithful and 100% productive friend on the playbook without the need of extra data plans just by using even BIS.
Camera is very good and the versatility and battery life alone give it a lot of extra points.

Yes, some more apps would be convenient for me too but again, this is personal preference and thus i think it is not necessarily of public discussion caliber.

I for one do not use skype but understand the people who do, wanting it because it is important and their peers would not change their communication setups because we own a playbook, that is true but that is why for me playbook DOES work and comer my needs. If you want to base your choice of tablet on skype compatibility then sure get another tablet! If that would mean giving up other features that you are reluctant to sacrifice for skype and that annoys you, then welcome to the reality of life, there is no one thing perfect.

For me the marketing of previously added value features or services converted into an app is what i hate most about apples industry setting ability and my amazement is for all consumers who actually go hard core to defend their "right to pay for services" that previously were not payable (like in pre-tablet era in computing). The last years this feature migrated on the computer platforms as well like for example winzip was always free and some years ago you suddenly had to pay.... Some companies got profit from major soft or computer companies but suddenly the final consumer had to pay. Dvd readers became external on netbooks and laptops where they could be installed. A copy of windows came with each pc but now only a repair disc or online download and when new version comes out if you need a format of your old software you have to obtain a special link from customer care because it is not available in the main digital front store online... And so on...

Now i have an app for currency conversion when i can use online trusted webs that also give away free apps, now i have to enter itunes store logic, and if i want to read some format i may need an extra app to support it. If i want my camera to have basic filters on a device of initially over 500usd i need to pay for an app... The list goes on up to tje point of someone getting out a "launcher" app on paymnet of 1euro that all it does is launch a web page on my browser.... We end up paying even for the companies to increment their web visits, i mean they want us to go to their pages and we will end up paying an app in order to do so at the end....

This is consumer behaviour and this is where my playbook gives me extra pleasure, i do not NEED that,i may want an app but not NEED to spend extra to do what i need to do. That gives me choice and the pb in that respect is also better imo than other platforms... Still... But we all as consumers seem to go on and ask to be charged extra for every tiny detail... Basic games like solitaire were free in pc, now for tablets, unless it is a promotional app to show off capabilities (like nfs in pb) you end up spending and also they present it as cheap... Right, check your receipts and you will see that a big % of your original tablet value went into extra apps that are useless in all platforms... Like a broken water pipe... Drop by drop, dollar by dollar...

Just another point of view for consideration.
Thanks.

[Vindicators]

For me the marketing of previously added value features or services converted into an app is what i hate most about apples industry setting ability and my amazement is for all consumers who actually go hard core to defend their "right to pay for services" that previously were not payable (like in pre-tablet era in computing). The last years this feature migrated on the computer platforms as well like for example winzip was always free and some years ago you suddenly had to pay.... Some companies got profit from major soft or computer companies but suddenly the final consumer had to pay. Dvd readers became external on netbooks and laptops where they could be installed. A copy of windows came with each pc but now only a repair disc or online download and when new version comes out if you need a format of your old software you have to obtain a special link from customer care because it is not available in the main digital front store online... And so on...

Now i have an app for currency conversion when i can use online trusted webs that also give away free apps, now i have to enter itunes store logic, and if i want to read some format i may need an extra app to support it. If i want my camera to have basic filters on a device of initially over 500usd i need to pay for an app... The list goes on up to tje point of someone getting out a "launcher" app on paymnet of 1euro that all it does is launch a web page on my browser.... We end up paying even for the companies to increment their web visits, i mean they want us to go to their pages and we will end up paying an app in order to do so at the end....

This is consumer behaviour and this is where my playbook gives me extra pleasure, i do not NEED that,i may want an app but not NEED to spend extra to do what i need to do. That gives me choice and the pb in that respect is also better imo than other platforms... Still... But we all as consumers seem to go on and ask to be charged extra for every tiny detail... Basic games like solitaire were free in pc, now for tablets, unless it is a promotional app to show off capabilities (like nfs in pb) you end up spending and also they present it as cheap... Right, check your receipts and you will see that a big % of your original tablet value went into extra apps that are useless in all platforms... Like a broken water pipe... Drop by drop, dollar by dollar...

Just another point of view for consideration.
Thanks.

I really don't understand your argument.
Winzip is a shareware since version 1.0. There is always have a place for commercial software. You can get 7zip for free or pay for Winrar, and you can get GIMP for free but some people need Photoshop so they pay for it.
Different companies also come with different business model, Goolge offer free service with ads, Canonical make Ubuntu free but charge for their support services.

The same is true for app store model like iTunes, Android Marketplace. You alway can find some photo filter, unit conversion, ebook reader software for free, some with ads, some cost you a few bucks, some are really expensive.

Sure, some people like you (maybe) dont need the extra feature of commercial software, heck, some people dont even need the extra power of hardware. That why you see Google offer ChromeOS with cheap hardware laptop, it is basically a browser, you can visit facebook, twitter, youtube, pandora, some basic html5 app for note, pdf, .....
But "cheap" hardware is the only advantage of a lesser ecosystem.

In fact, not only a healthy ecosystem will give you more free software but in some case like appstore and appworld you will see that free app (ads free) from appstore even better than paid app from appworld.(handwriting note app for example)
And there is a time when you are ready to pay for some commercial software but with a lesser ecosystem you dont have the choice for variant software or even worst, dont have the software available for you need.

[jivegirl14]

That's exactly how I feel. When non techies ask me for product advice. I don't think what I would be happy with. I think what product best fits the average consumers needs.

Really? Then you might be doing the "non-techie" a disservice.
I've had a lot of people ask me for advice on a tablet, usually "non-techies." I always tell them it depends on THEIR needs, not the "average consumer', (of whom we know a lot less than we think we do).

When they ask me for advice it's because they trust my opinion and that I will indeed say what it is that makes me happy about my choice and why I like it as well as give them options based on their intended use (of a tablet in this case). In fact, often their first questions are "Why do you like it?" or " How do you find it?"

I don't assume they are the "average consumer." I do take the time - since they've asked for my advice - to try and understand what experience they are really looking for and give them options based on what I hear them saying.