[diegonei]

You're working with a lot of assumptions. Facts are that NO TABLET OTHER THAN APPLE's sold well.

Calling the PlayBook a disaster based on sold units only is moot point if you take the tablet market all together in consideration.

But as you said, I won't insist any more. No point right?

PS: "" does not make you look smart.

[kennyliu]

You're working with a lot of assumptions. Facts are that NO TABLET OTHER THAN APPLE's sold well.

Calling the PlayBook a disaster based on sold units only is moot point if you take the tablet market all together in consideration.

But as you said, I won't insist any more. No point right?

PS: "" does not make you look smart.

I don't want to look smart

Did I ever say anything about other tablets? But you are right. Most other tablets were also unsuccessful. They are also in the flops lists. Including the Playbook. That doesn't make the Playbook successful.

As for assumptions, pardon me, but it's you who seems to be the master of them

[mandony]

Interesting. This should increase PB sales and interest.
In terms of network mobility, this service has largely been a financial failure for the networks. There are a low percentage of Pads sold with network compared to WIFI only.

Practically,
> for BB Phone owners with tether and bridge,
and
> smart phone owners with tethering,
are all you need.
> Many new smart phones also include WIFI hotspot.
Why spend more for additional network plans?

[samab]

Login to DIGITIMES archive & research

Btw, are the filresale prices and the half a billion dollar write-off also Wall Street idiots' estimates?

(1) You believe in idiotic Taiwanese rumour mills?
(2) Apple missed their ipad sales figures vs wall street consensus for 2 quarters last year.

As I said it, you don't hear the other disasters --- just because they aren't listed in the US and aren't subject to US SEC filing rules.

The best selling non-ipad tablet is the Kindle Fire --- which is sold at a loss.

[kennyliu]

(1) You believe in idiotic Taiwanese rumour mills?
(2) Apple missed their ipad sales figures vs wall street consensus for 2 quarters last year.

As I said it, you don't hear the other disasters --- just because they aren't listed in the US and aren't subject to US SEC filing rules.

The best selling non-ipad tablet is the Kindle Fire --- which is sold at a loss.

Looks like everybody's an id iot to you.

Anyway, the iPad misses its targets, but if it missed the target by 80%, well, I'd call it a disaster.

FYI, Amazon doesn't sell at a loss. They more than make up on content sales, which can't be said about the PB.

[samab]

Looks like everybody's an id iot to you.

Anyway, the iPad misses its targets, but if it missed the target by 80%, well, I'd call it a disaster.

You believe in the least trusted of all news sources (digitimes) and then you based your arguments on that. You are building your case on quicksand. RIM didn't have those internal targets --- digitimes pull that number out of thin air.

The Playbook has outsold many of its competitors like the Xoom (which has more expensive parts and you have to send the unit back to Motorola to add a LTE radio).

[samab]

FYI, Amazon doesn't sell at a loss. They more than make up on content sales, which can't be said about the PB.

The parts cost of the Playbook is only marginally higher than the Kindle Fire.

The highest grossing apps in the whole Blackberry appworld are Playbook apps, so they can get a lot of that back either.

[apengue1]

I think its a good thing coming out with a 4g playbook. We will see how well it sells but for me, the primary thing I think about it them being able to test these models months before bb10 launch, and possible fix any bugs in the connectivity. They might not use the exact same hardware as bb10, but the software is pretty close, and we don't want for RIM what just happened to Nokia with their Lumia 900 not receiving data connections.

[kennyliu]

The parts cost of the Playbook is only marginally higher than the Kindle Fire.

The highest grossing apps in the whole Blackberry appworld are Playbook apps, so they can get a lot of that back either.

((AppWorld Revenue - App World Costs) * 0.2 (PB's share of revenue)) / number of PBs.

[kennyliu]

You believe in the least trusted of all news sources (digitimes) and then you based your arguments on that. You are building your case on quicksand. RIM didn't have those internal targets --- digitimes pull that number out of thin air.

The Playbook has outsold many of its competitors like the Xoom (which has more expensive parts and you have to send the unit back to Motorola to add a LTE radio).

I am building my case on irrefutable facts - heavy discounts and half a billion write off.

[samab]

((AppWorld Revenue - App World Costs) * 0.2 (PB's share of revenue)) / number of PBs.

So you are telling me that Amazon gets to keep every cent that they make?

I am building my case on irrefutable facts - heavy discounts and half a billion write off.

I am building my case on weak public accounting rules in foreign countries. There are many other disasters --- you just don't know it because companies like Asus and HTC are listed in Taiwan and they don't need to tell their shareholders anything.

[kennyliu]

So you are telling me that Amazon gets to keep every cent that they make?

No, but I am pretty sure their margin is way higher

I am building my case on weak public accounting rules in foreign countries. There are many other disasters --- you just don't know it because companies like Asus and HTC are listed in Taiwan and they don't need to tell their shareholders anything.

Again, why other tablets? I am not saying the PB is the only disaster

[samab]

No, but I am pretty sure their margin is way higher

Again, why other tablets? I am not saying the PB is the only disaster

Their margins are well lower --- just look at how much netflix had to pay for their content after their original content deal expired.

But if you look at all the other disasters --- the Playbook would fare a lot better because it is a 7 incher (much lower parts costs). RIM didn't put in a 1280x1024 10 inch screen and a 4G radio into their tablet.

[kennyliu]

Their margins are well lower --- just look at how much netflix had to pay for their content after their original content deal expired.

But if you look at all the other disasters --- the Playbook would fare a lot better because it is a 7 incher (much lower parts costs). RIM didn't put in a 1280x1024 10 inch screen and a 4G radio into their tablet.

You do know how Amazon makes money, right?

Size of a device =/= cost

[samab]

You do know how Amazon makes money, right?

Size of a device =/= cost

Content costs a lot more money then you think --- see netflix content costs.

As for books --- see the anti-trust price fixing lawsuit by the US government against Apple. Of course Amazon makes a lot of money --- it's price fixing.

[kennyliu]

Content costs a lot more money then you think --- see netflix content costs.

As for books --- see the anti-trust price fixing lawsuit by the US government against Apple. Of course Amazon makes a lot of money --- it's price fixing.

How is this relevant to the discussion? Are we still comparing content revenues or are we discussing monopolistic practices by companies?

[samab]

How is this relevant to the discussion? Are we still comparing content revenues or are we discussing monopolistic practices by companies?

So, are you telling me that the only viable non-ipad tablet business model is --- selling the hardware at a loss and backed by a monopolistic price fixing practices?

[Chaddface]

How is this relevant to the discussion?

How is the discussion relevant to the thread?

[insyncro]

Wouldn't a 3 or 4G version of the PB be more for people who dont use a BB phone?
Wouldn't all carriers prefer it this way so each user would not be able to use the connection from there phone and have to purchase another data plan?
I hope it doesn't go in that direction.
I love the fact that my BB phone and PB share the connection!

[lnichols]

How is this relevant to the discussion? Are we still comparing content revenues or are we discussing monopolistic practices by companies?

So, are you telling me that the only viable non-ipad tablet business model is --- selling the hardware at a loss and backed by a monopolistic price fixing practices?

Maybe you guys should take this to PM instead of hijacking the thread.

[mithrazor]

Maybe you guys should take this to PM instead of hijacking the thread.

It's not as fun.

[VeGiTo]

kennyliu, Amazon operates on razor thin margin, and it is getting thinner. They are sacrificing profitability on empire building. It is all apparent in their financials.

Did you know that despite their relative size, RIM earns TWICE as much profits in absolute dollars as AMZN? Go check it yourself on Money: Personal finance, investing news & advice - MSN Money

Many analysts are now expecting Amazon to make an operating loss (NOT loss due to write-downs) in the near future.

I'll give it to you that RIM earns no margin on PB, but the rest of their business has healthy margins, including software/services (e.g. App World). Don't confuse volume with business success.

[kennyliu]

kennyliu, Amazon operates on razor thin margin, and it is getting thinner. They are sacrificing profitability on empire building. It is all apparent in their financials.

Did you know that despite their relative size, RIM earns TWICE as much profits in absolute dollars as AMZN? Go check it yourself on Money: Personal finance, investing news & advice - MSN Money

Many analysts are now expecting Amazon to make an operating loss (NOT loss due to write-downs) in the near future.

I'll give it to you that RIM earns no margin on PB, but the rest of their business has healthy margins, including software/services (e.g. App World). Don't confuse volume with business success.

I am not. I was talking about product success. You can have a very successful business (e.g. MS, Google), but you can also have unsuccessful products (the Kin, Chrome OS).

[BBRPWN55]

Good news! But, I wouldn't upgrade mine since I have hotspot, tethering and Bridge.

But, maybe something else will be worthwhile in it as an upgrade.

Hopefully there don't come up with an different data plan for blackberry phones for the fact of being able to bridge them and have no need for an data plan.

[VeGiTo]

I am not. I was talking about product success. You can have a very successful business (e.g. MS, Google), but you can also have unsuccessful products (the Kin, Chrome OS).

Then I think we need to give PB a little more time. MS was selling XBox at a loss for a long time and it eventually became a success.

Thor has said that PlayBook is a "reference implementation" for the new platform, with the purpose of seeding the market, and also give developers something tangible to work with. The money-makers will follow later in the form of BB10 phones, car dashboards, mobile fusion, app world etc.

They should've launched PB with better marketing and lower price, yes, and it is absolutely loss-making as a standalone product. But as a reference implementation for a whole new platform, it's too early to call it a failure.