[13echo4]

Why is blackberrys held at a different standard? I believe that most people would agree that the smartphone today is built on the core that blackberrys insisted on and brought to the end user.
Before anybody screams apps let's look at that. Applications aka apps has been running on blackberrys since the beginning. Office docs, email client, even media players just for examples.
The iphone came and only impressive thing was touch ui. The over all ui was.... Well simple. It didn't do apps very well. Email and office docs was a nightmare. To be honest it wasn't until ios right before ios5 if not ios5 before apple got it right.
Android is real simlar.
So blackberrys has always done what it does very well. Not to mention restructured the whole ecosystem over the past couple yrs.
Look what they have done. Ceo change. Bought an os. Released 2 bboses. 3 touch screen phones in 3 different form factors. Built a tab on the os they bought. Been building a new phone on a completely new os.
Yet a lot of people here say Rim isn't innovating and saying android and ios is leaving BB behind. Huh?
I had read a comment that if Rim released a PB with 4g and a new cpu it wouldn't be a next generation PB. Why? You have 3 ipad built on the same platform, form factor, Cpu and its accepted as a next generation ipad. I'm sorry the A5x is just an A5 with a quad core gpu.
The PB came with the gestures and apples being trying to copy it. Again another Rim standard becoming the market standard but everybody has a different set of success standards for Rim.
Well guys I really think apple and android needs Rim to stay in business so they can bring new standards to the market even though they are held with different standards.

[sputneek]

Thanks for that post, it's also the way I see it. Rim is really going at it hard and for sure because they have to. Their back is up against the wall for now but that is already, albeit slowly changing. They are on their way back up, I don't see them coasting anymore, you can plainly see they know that was their biggest mistake. It is also a safe bet the other platforms are taking notice as RIM is coming up with some fresh innovative ideas.

[berry4life99]

Resting on their laurels was RIM's biggest error. BlackBerry does what it does very well, but if the platform changed with the times more easily, BlackBerry wouldn't be "irrelevant" to US carriers and consumers. I believe in RIM, because I haven't seen another platform do what I want more easily. Anyone whose experience with BlackBerry was like mine would agree.

[PanaSama]

The iphone came and only impressive thing was touch ui.

Well to be honest it was very impressive for the time, and lets not forget the browser wich was magnificent.

So blackberrys has always done what it does very well.

Very true, Blackberry strenghts have gotten even better over the years, the thing is that as the smartphone market shifted from the business user to encompass the regular consumer, people started to demand more from their smartphones than what BlackBerry had to offer, Apple catered to that market and RIM failed to adapt.

Look what they have done. Ceo change. Bought an os. Released 2 bboses. 3 touch screen phones in 3 different form factors. Built a tab on the os they bought. Been building a new phone on a completely new os.
Yet a lot of people here say Rim isn't innovating and saying android and ios is leaving BB behind. Huh?

Because those are the things they should have done years ago, they're now fighting an uphill battle because they waited too long to change, and don't get wrong im really rooting for RIM and im very excited for BB10 but im also aware that this could be their last chance to stay relevant.

I had read a comment that if Rim released a PB with 4g and a new cpu it wouldn't be a next generation PB. Why? You have 3 ipad built on the same platform, form factor, Cpu and its accepted as a next generation ipad. I'm sorry the A5x is just an A5 with a quad core gpu.

To be honest the specs of the 4G PB are nearly identical to the Wi-fi only version, it would be a mistake to call this the PlayBook 2 or a next generation PlayBook, im not here to defend the iPad but you are forgetting that besides a quad core GPU it also has a much higher res screen, is this enough to be considered a new gen iPad? that's debatable, but it definitely was a much higher upgrade than the PB 4G.

The PB came with the gestures and apples being trying to copy it. Again another Rim standard becoming the market standard but everybody has a different set of success standards for Rim.
Well guys I really think apple and android needs Rim to stay in business so they can bring new standards to the market even though they are held with different standards.

The gestures were in WebOs first, and if you are talking about standards what about the Webkit browser standard that Apple brought to mobile devices? or kinetic scrolling, pinch to zoom, etc. you would be very wrong in assuming that Apple hasnt brought new standards to the mobile industry, RIM has too of course, Android aswell, but the fact is that RIM failed to understand how the market was changing (and how fast), and now they're paying the consequences, is it too late for them? i really hope not, i have a lot of faith in BB10 and the new direction RIM is taking, and i cant wait to see more of it.

[13echo4]

I agree with the Genius. In the future, when the definitive history of the development of telephone technology is written, if they fail to mention RIM, it would be a serious omission indeed.

This has nothing to do with giving Rim any credit to history. What I'm saying is Apple and android sits on their
Laurels and people swallow their hook line and sinker. But yet Rim has to come out with a total different product to be relevant.
I dunno how anybody can see that Rim sat on its laurels with all they have been up to. Its taking time to get everthing on line. The end user device takes more than an idea to get it in the users hands.

[Laura Knotek]

This has nothing to do with giving Rim any credit to history. What I'm saying is Apple and android sits on their

Laurels and people swallow their hook line and sinker. But yet Rim has to come out with a total different product to be relevant.

I dunno how anybody can see that Rim sat on its laurels with all they have been up to. Its taking time to get everthing on line. The end user device takes more than an idea to get it in the users hands.

The difference is RIM needed a new OS, since its current one is too old to carry into the future. It is about 10 years old in terms of its code base.

Eventually Apple and Google will also need to completely change their OSes too, but those are not to old to further develop yet.

It's like how Microsoft had to switch from DOS to Windows NT, since nothing further could be done to advance DOS.



Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

[13echo4]

Well to be honest it was very impressive for the time, and lets not forget the browser wich was magnificent.
Very true, Blackberry strenghts have gotten even better over the years, the thing is that as the smartphone market shifted from the business user to encompass the regular consumer, people started to demand more from their smartphones than what BlackBerry had to offer, Apple catered to that market and RIM failed to adapt.
Because those are the things they should have done years ago, they're now fighting an uphill battle because they waited too long to change, and don't get wrong im really rooting for RIM and im very excited for BB10 but im also aware that this could be their last chance to stay relevant.
To be honest the specs of the 4G PB are nearly identical to the Wi-fi only version, it would be a mistake to call this the PlayBook 2 or a next generation PlayBook, im not here to defend the iPad but you are forgetting that besides a quad core GPU it also has a much higher res screen, is this enough to be considered a new gen iPad? that's debatable, but it definitely was a much higher upgrade than the PB 4G.
The gestures were in WebOs first, and if you are talking about standards what about the Webkit browser standard that Apple brought to mobile devices? or kinetic scrolling, pinch to zoom, etc. you would be very wrong in assuming that Apple hasnt brought new standards to the mobile industry, RIM has too of course, Android aswell, but the fact is that RIM failed to understand how the market was changing (and how fast), and now they're paying the consequences, is it too late for them? i really hope not, i have a lot of faith in BB10 and the new direction RIM is taking, and i cant wait to see more of it.

No I can't say that the browser was impressive. Data was barely getting to 2g. The 3g iphone could handle 3g. But the browse wasn't impressive. It was clumsy.
The new ipad has the same stats but resoluton and gpu. So all the PB needs to have to be a next generation is an upgraded gpu.

[Willard814]

RIM failed to market their product properly... plain and simple! Blackberry products can be compared to Apple and Android respectively. As long as RIM makes phones and tablets I'll keep buying them, because bottom line they actually work!

[MikeInParadise]

It amazes me how blind people are on both the apple and blackberry sides. What happened to rational analysis and thinking. I went replace my better half mp3 player the month the ipod touch was introduced. I immediately recognized the great interface and the functionality of its browser. I still use it in bed to check my email over the playbook that sits next to it. If I want to watch a video or read a book I use the playbook. If I want to check on the server I use the playbook. The opera mini browser is my preference for referencing the hundreds of bookmarked sites as the bookmark manager on the playbook is bad.

If I am watching tv I usually browse with playbook due to its size but usually have my new ipad and a netbook on the coffee table. Any serious typing is done on the netbook or with voice dictation on the ipad which works amazing.

None of these technologies do everything well.

350 million plus users have bought into ios and insulting them is just wrong!

I try to use the best tool for the job and have no bias towards any specific technology.

[adrenaline_x]

Dos is still awesome.

Most things in my IT world rely on Dos commands.

[PanaSama]

No I can't say that the browser was impressive. Data was barely getting to 2g. The 3g iphone could handle 3g. But the browse wasn't impressive. It was clumsy.
The new ipad has the same stats but resoluton and gpu. So all the PB needs to have to be a next generation is an upgraded gpu.

Im sorry what? how can you say the browser was not impressive? there was nothing at the time quite like it, the iphone had the first usable mobile browser in a smartphone, it proved that browsing could be quite good on a phone, it took the competition years to get anything even close to safari, honestly im finding very hard to take you seriously.

And about the new iPad being next gen, i clearly said it was "debatable" but if you want to take it that way fine, if the 4G playbook comes with a higher re screen, a quadcore GPU and 4G we would have to call it next-gen, otherwise there is no double standard here.

[Laura Knotek]

Dos is still awesome.

Most things in my IT world rely on Dos commands.

That's true, but consumers sure wouldn't want it.

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

[erhan8]

350 million plus users have bought into ios and insulting them is just wrong!

175 million of them just "bought in" because everyone else had one. Sheep don't have any feelings and frankly I'm insulted every time an ios user tries to compare their iclones to RIMs devices.

Yes I guess I'm blind as well because my smartphone and tablet do everything I need and save me money, so I don't need to look anywhere else.

[PanaSama]

175 million of them just "bought in" because everyone else had one. Sheep don't have any feelings and frankly I'm insulted every time an ios user tries to compare their iclones to RIMs devices.

Seriously what's wrong with you?

[13echo4]

It amazes me how blind people are on both the apple and blackberry sides. What happened to rational analysis and thinking.350 million plus users have bought into ios and insulting them is just wrong!

I'm sorry if you felt this is insulting to ios or a "rim is better" train of thought. It isn't.
My wife bought an ipod in 02 or 03. I thought it was pretty cool. Itunes was nasty just a burden. So was into Motorola at the time. I used my 551,razr, and slvr as a mp3 player. They where good to sync with wmp or just drag and drop files to in windows.
This thread isn't to put down any platform. Really I'm just saying I don't get where people are saying one thing for company A and something different for company B. In this thread I have no opinion which device is better. That is to subjective in that it can not be proven. It all depends on the end user's experience. Sure you can bench mark hardware. But those are not real world numbers. Use and configuration will change the end result.
I just why Rim has to touch the moon to be considered climbing a tree. I really believe marketing has a lot to do with it. We see idevice commercials that isn't even idevice commercials. It'll be an insurance or realistate commercial and you'll see more iproducts than anything. Nothing wrong with that. Good job Steve or who ever thought that up. But in the end it doesn't take away from what Rim has been able to do and what apple has released.

[alnamvet68]

Media bias OP....reinforces the deluded and doomed conformist's collective blindness into believing that only one OS, the most expensive one, is the best; that simple.

[13echo4]

Im sorry what? how can you say the browser was not impressive? there was nothing at the time quite like it, the iphone had the first usable mobile browser in a smartphone, it proved that browsing could be quite good on a phone, it took the competition years to get anything even close to safari, honestly im finding very hard to take you seriously.

And about the new iPad being next gen, i clearly said it was "debatable" but if you want to take it that way fine, if the 4G playbook comes with a higher re screen, a quadcore GPU and 4G we would have to call it next-gen, otherwise there is no double standard here.

What was impressive about it? I don't think anybody else's was impressive either. Safari was slow, not very user friend how history and stuff was stored. Everybody I knew hated and jumped to opera the first chance they got. Safari is awful on the pc too. You don't have to take me seriously. That's no going to change the fact.

[app_Developer]

What was impressive about it? I don't think anybody else's was impressive either. Safari was slow, not very user friend how history and stuff was stored. Everybody I knew hated and jumped to opera the first chance they got. Safari is awful on the pc too. You don't have to take me seriously. That's no going to change the fact.

Do you remember what the Blackberry and Windows Mobile browsers were like in 2007?

[13echo4]

Do you remember what the Blackberry and Windows Mobile browsers were like in 2007?

Yes if you want to call them browsers. It seems lik on my 8310 I had to install or activate the browser or something. I really can't rememeber. Internet use wasn't good at all. Just saying that blackberry's browser was bad doesn't make safari impressive. Even blackberry's browser had nothing to do with how people felt about safari. Noone I knew liked it. There's was lots of bad reviews. Like I said people jumped on opera to get away from safari.

[app_Developer]

Yes if you want to call them browsers. It seems lik on my 8310 I had to install or activate the browser or something. I really can't rememeber. Internet use wasn't good at all. Just saying that blackberry's browser was bad doesn't make safari impressive. Even blackberry's browser had nothing to do with how people felt about safari. Noone I knew liked it. There's was lots of bad reviews. Like I said people jumped on opera to get away from safari.

Come on, now. You're dancing around the fact that the iPhone browser was a significant advance beyond what other OSes had. It totally raised expectations for what mobile rendering should look like. Then in 2008, apple released APIs which were way beyond WM6 and BB, which is why apps were so much more compelling on iPhone than the primitive apps we had before that.

It's easy to just dismiss the iPhone 5 years after the fact, but even the most ardent BB fan boy has to admit the iPhone was, in 2007, a hugely significant phone that changed the market. Certainly RIM is still reeling from its impact.

The original BB phones were similarly a huge impact on the industry and that's how RIM became the darling of the wireless industry back then.

[13echo4]

Come on, now. You're dancing around the fact that the iPhone browser was a significant advance beyond what other OSes had. It totally raised expectations for what mobile rendering should look like. Then in 2008, apple released APIs which were way beyond WM6 and BB, which is why apps were so much more compelling on iPhone than the primitive apps we had before that.

It's easy to just dismiss the iPhone 5 years after the fact, but even the most ardent BB fan boy has to admit the iPhone was, in 2007, a hugely significant phone that changed the market. Certainly RIM is still reeling from its impact.

The original BB phones were similarly a huge impact on the industry and that's how RIM became the darling of the wireless industry back then.

I'm not dancing around anything. I said it straght forward. Don't get me wrong I don't mind getting in another thread a swapping wits over this subject.
This just isn't place. This thread isn't about what is better. Its about judging someone from a higher standard.
It is really that simple.

[hurds]

Currently there definitely is a double standard and RIM is always held to a higher standard. Not a problem though since RIM is the only company that can/will live up to it.

[13echo4]

Currently there definitely is a double standard and RIM is always held to a higher standard. Not a problem though since RIM is the only company that can/will live up to it.

That there is the problem. Rim will never be able to live up to it because it will always change.
What where they thinking, they should have done, they shouldnt have done what ever. When your standard is different from which others is weighted you will never balance out.

[hurds]

I think the double standard that exists has more of an effect in the short term. Over a longer period of time people will learn more about competing products and will find out for themselves what products actually offer and I believe in the long term this will favor RIM. People can only be fooled for so long.

[husainpatan]

It amazes me how blind people are on both the apple and blackberry sides. What happened to rational analysis and thinking. I went replace my better half mp3 player the month the ipod touch was introduced. I immediately recognized the great interface and the functionality of its browser. I still use it in bed to check my email over the playbook that sits next to it. If I want to watch a video or read a book I use the playbook. If I want to check on the server I use the playbook. The opera mini browser is my preference for referencing the hundreds of bookmarked sites as the bookmark manager on the playbook is bad.

If I am watching tv I usually browse with playbook due to its size but usually have my new ipad and a netbook on the coffee table. Any serious typing is done on the netbook or with voice dictation on the ipad which works amazing.

None of these technologies do everything well.

350 million plus users have bought into ios and insulting them is just wrong!

I try to use the best tool for the job and have no bias towards any specific technology.

Man u have an ipod - a playbook - a new ipad - a netbook.... U watch movies on something, read books on something, listen music on yet another thing, do voice dictation on a anoither device, and lastly typing on a netbook...!!!!!

Ur life's too complicated my buddy