- Do you seriously think the current PB can ever become a "hit"? It's too late for that imo - yes, if you demo the PB to people they are usually impressed - but *everyone* (none BB current user) I've spoken to about it thinks it is second rate and RIM is on the way out. Regardless of whether this is true or not how can you make an almost 1 year old tech tablet a "hit"? Once the iPad3 with its super hi res comes out that's all I'll hear from people.. It doesn't matter to most what it will *do* - why would they buy one when everyone around has iPads/Android? I'm in the UK - this may be different elsewhere - I work at a University - the IT dept deliberately ignored the PB in favour of android for teaching as it wasn't ready - I know of no-one else with one at all (other than the ones I bought for my family) whereas I can find 20+ android tabs, and muore than double that iPads without thinking too hard amongst colleagues/students.
I think to move forward BB need to make a great new product - not revamp an old one. People imo want the latest, not something old and relatively rare with not the greatest app support yet. Something near the iPad 3 specs/res but cheaper - with a *real* differentiator (removable storage? ethernet port for IT troubleshooting? Proper presenting software/PPT? etc.) as bridge is not enough for anyone if they don't have a BB phone.
I like what my PB can do, I just find it hard to justify it to others over the other 2 main types of competitor. It's frustrating as it could be a great product - if it had been released at �200-250 instead of the �400 I paid (16GB) it would have sold more, have more support and better reviews and this could all have been a different story.
Here's hoping for a BlackBerry "WorkBook", professional tablet that really works. Playbook might mean something sporty/strategic in the Americas - over here it conjures up different meanings - "Play" = "Toy/Fun" (split the market - play and work?!). Voluntary App support will be far less than the Android/iPad (no matter what, realistically) so RIM should core support/buy necessary apps.
Sorry - very long
Even Soldierknowsbest who is an Apple fan gave the ipad just a slight lead. The missing pieces like calender, email, small number of apps in app world are what made it lose in his eyes. There isn't a hole lot to complain about on the hardware side. One guy on here was upset.that it wouldn't fetch a beer, maybe that will be in the next model.
With all that and the fact that an ipad 3 could be realeased this yesr it would be crazy to realease now. Get the BB10 phone released and that will help with app world. Until then OW 2.0 hasn't come out yet and people want Rim to release a new tablet. Let them show that they can finish this device first. Besides current owners, who is going to buy a new Playbook when this isn't finished? Rushing out with a new one now is a bad idea.
Get out OS 2.0 on time, release a BB10 phone and then they can look at a releasing a new tablet. I wouldn't release at the same time as Apple unless the software is getting rave reviews and if you know your going to distroy the ipad in performance tests.
James01-22-12 10:09 AMLike 0 - Can't agree more. I firmly believe they named it wrong, especially when they were targeting this to "enterprise market".
Boss: "What's that new device you're carrying?"
Employee: "It's my shiny new Playbook"
Boss: "What? Why are you bringing in a play-thing to work?"
and it could be the name itself is contributing to the problem with sales.
The Playbook wasn't finished at the time of release. The name wasn't a problem. Nobody I know thinks its a play thing. It doesn't look or feel like a toy. Plus people feel the app world is lacking.
People are grasping at straws thinking the name hurt sales. Its a great product but is unfinished. I love mine and I love what they have coming in 2.0.
Lets not forget that this is their first tablet, with a new OS. They are starting from the ground up.
Jamespeter9477 likes this.01-22-12 10:23 AMLike 1 - Come on now. For me the Playbook has one of the best names. ipad? Come on now.
The Playbook wasn't finished at the time of release. The name wasn't a problem. Nobody I know thinks its a play thing. It doesn't look or feel like a toy. Plus people feel the app world is lacking.
People are grasping at straws thinking the name hurt sales. Its a great product but is unfinished. I love mine and I love what they have coming in 2.0.
Lets not forget that this is their first tablet, with a new OS. They are starting from the ground up.
James
It is subjective, but toys are usually smaller as well.
How is it a great product if it is unfinished? Unfinished product cannot be considered a great product! Yes, it is a well designed product, especially from HW and OS perspective, but it's unfinished.
First attempt so forgiven? No such sympathy in market. It only hurts if you release unfinished product and taint brand image. It takes more effort later on to overcome that.
It's better to have no track record than a bad one.01-22-12 10:57 AMLike 0 -
As far as tablets go, 7" is nice. A 10" would be nice for some things but it would get less use from me at home and on the road. In the end one size is not going to please all. Even offering a 7 and a 10" is not going to please all.
James01-22-12 11:12 AMLike 0 - Playbook is a great name if it is consumer oriented product, but it was intended for enterprise market more than consumer market. The word "play" doesn't give a good impression at workplace.
It is subjective, but toys are usually smaller as well.
How is it a great product if it is unfinished? Unfinished product cannot be considered a great product! Yes, it is a well designed product, especially from HW and OS perspective, but it's unfinished.
First attempt so forgiven? No such sympathy in market. It only hurts if you release unfinished product and taint brand image. It takes more effort later on to overcome that.
It's better to have no track record than a bad one.
For things to do well it has to be business/consumer. If someone is spending their own money on a device it can't be just business.
And honestly how many people (that don't have a screw loose) have looked at a Playbook and said "that is just for play, it says so right in the name. For business you need a ipad or tablet running ice cream sandwich? Come one now. Lets be serious.
ipad? I'm not even going there with the things that were said about that name when it was announced it.
Ice cream sandwich? People want talk bad about the Playbook name. Its a kids treat.
Main Entry: ice cream sandwich
Part of Speech: n
Definition: a handheld dessert consisting of two (usu. chocolate) cakelike layers with a slice of ice cream inside
Example: They make ice cream sandwiches in a bunch of different flavors.
Etymology: 1900
Usage: cooking
play�book
[pley-book] Show IPA
noun
1.
(in Elizabethan drama) the script of a play, used by the actors as an acting text.
2.
a book containing the scripts of one or more plays.
3.
Football . a notebook containing descriptions of all the plays and strategies used by a team, often accompanied by diagrams, issued to players for them to study and memorize before the season begins.
4.
Informal . any plan or set of strategies, as for outlining a campaign in business or politics.
Origin:
1525�35; play + book
Lets not blame any of this on the name.
I feel its a great product because of what it can do now. But it might be better to say it has great potential. Its not perfect but it works really well. The multi tasking alone is great.
I never said that we should forgive the first attempt. But at the same time you have to know what you bought. I bought mine on December 27th. I did research when they came out but wasn't going to pay that kind of money for any tablet. When they had the second price drop I decided I had to take a look. I researched it again for a month before buying it. I knew what it could do, what it couldn't do and what they say it will have in around February. That is the product they put out. Did they make a mistake? Maybe. Why do I say maybe? They released too early but at the same time they want to get their new software in the hands of consumers before they release a new phone. If they waited till now to release the Playbook they would have had to use and test different hardware and would have less time with their product out in the market before the phone release. I think they were willing to take a hit on one side to get the software out there. This risk might help them with the phone OS and making things as right as they can be (it can never be perfect).
The brand was hurt before this release so its another stain but its not the only one.
They have a huge uphill battle ahead of them and there was no easy way to start.
In life you need credit to do anything. Without credit you have a very hard time getting credit. How do you win?
If they went with Android they would just have to make a device with amazing specs and set it up the way they want it. Then you have the same software as many others but you try to beat them in performance. The apps are in place. You have less to wory about. I'm glad they didn't go that route. I wouldn't have bought one.
They build their first device, come out with a new os that has no app catalog at all and they are not the top name in the game anymore. No matter when it was release it was going to be a tough sell. I'm sure they knew that. I'm sure they expected better sales then they got but it is what it is.
James01-22-12 11:53 AMLike 0 - 10" is too big. its a thin laptop with lower specs. I can fit this thing in my winter jacket pockets. I can't do that with a 10". A phone is more portable but thats not what we are talking about. My 10-4 work phone is much more portable then the Torch, iphone and Androids but the phone sucks and i can't stand it.
As far as tablets go, 7" is nice. A 10" would be nice for some things but it would get less use from me at home and on the road. In the end one size is not going to please all. Even offering a 7 and a 10" is not going to please all.
James
It is winter now. What are you going to do when the weather warms up? Are you going to wear winter jackets in the summer time?
I also have IPhone, when I'm on the road I can do many things on it - checking emails, reading books, etc. Thing about 7" PB is that you can do some of these more comfortably (but surprisingly typing on it isn't any better, actually harder).
With 10" things a lot more comfortable and carrying 10" device at work around meeting rooms, etc isn't any more difficult than 7" device, speaking from experience.
7" device has its place but 10" would be better served in enterprise market.01-22-12 11:55 AMLike 0 -
Releasing unfinished product is like getting into debt without credit.
It's better to start without credit, and no debt.
You're not saying RIM gained credit for releasing unfinished product, I hope.
Also, you don't need credit in life if you can pay cash for everything. Some people I know are very disciplined to do this, maybe except purchasing a house.01-22-12 12:01 PMLike 0 - 10" tablet is surprisingly more portable than similar sized netbook or ultranotebook. Also, the battery life is way better than netbooks/notebooks.
It is winter now. What are you going to do when the weather warms up? Are you going to wear winter jackets in the summer time?
I also have IPhone, when I'm on the road I can do many things on it - checking emails, reading books, etc. Thing about 7" PB is that you can do some of these more comfortably (but surprisingly typing on it isn't any better, actually harder).
With 10" things a lot more comfortable and carrying 10" device at work around meeting rooms, etc isn't any more difficult than 7" device, speaking from experience.
7" device has its place but 10" would be better served in enterprise market.
10" tablets have there place but its not in my hands.
And in the summer I can carry it with me. But for most of the year I can put it in a jacket. It also fits in my spring/fall work jacket as well. So I will still have it with me. I can even ask my wife to toss it in her purse if I have it in a case. I can't do that with a 10" unless she has a beach bag.
"You can't make everybody happy!" Words to live by.
James01-22-12 12:01 PMLike 0 - I will not get into other points you made since this stands out above all.
Releasing unfinished product is like getting into debt without credit.
It's better to start without credit, and no debt.
You're not saying RIM gained credit for releasing unfinished product, I hope.
Also, you don't need credit in life if you can pay cash for everything. Some people I know are very disciplined to do this, maybe except purchasing a house.
Credit=Hardware, OS, apps.
Good Credit=great sales.
To get credit you have to have good credit, be a student or have a co signer.
Before you start you have no credit.
Before you release a new OS you have almost no apps. Apps are one thing needed to get great sales. They can control the hardware they use. Then can pick the OS. They picked/built a new one.
Even with a credit card you can't build good credit without a good job because you can't pay off any money you charge to it.
There are a lot of pieces to that puzzle.
There was no way to have a perfect launch with not being a top player, first tablet, brand new OS and a app world that is more like a app city block.
You also have to remember that this isn't just a tablet thing. They are working on the new phone OS. So this doubles as a test platform. Huge sales would have made things better there are big players and its tough to change peoples minds.
I was up WAY too late last night to be thinking this hard today.
Jamespeter9477 likes this.01-22-12 12:13 PMLike 1 - Ok your digging to deep into that. But lets look at it. If your not a student its very hard to get a first credit card or a loan. You need help.
Credit=Hardware, OS, apps.
Good Credit=great sales.
To get credit you have to have good credit, be a student or have a co signer.
Before you start you have no credit.
Before you release a new OS you have almost no apps. Apps are one thing needed to get great sales. They can control the hardware they use. Then can pick the OS. They picked/built a new one.
Even with a credit card you can't build good credit without a good job because you can't pay off any money you charge to it.
There are a lot of pieces to that puzzle.
There was no way to have a perfect launch with not being a top player, first tablet, brand new OS and a app world that is more like a app city block.
You also have to remember that this isn't just a tablet thing. They are working on the new phone OS. So this doubles as a test platform. Huge sales would have made things better there are big players and its tough to change peoples minds.
I was up WAY too late last night to be thinking this hard today.
James
If you're the first to market, you don't need a perfect launch.
If you're NOT the first to market, you almost need a perfect launch to stay competitive.
I don't agree this is a test platform. They simply could not enter tablet market with current OS, as simple as that. If this is truly a test platform, they are scaring off a lot of investors.. which is last thing they want.
Also, RIM is not a student. In the world of business, there are no students.01-22-12 03:50 PMLike 0 - But that just proves my point. You can't make everyone happy. I don't want a 10" tablet. Unless I was doing photo editing with a stylus I wouldn't want a 10". Even then I would rather use a powerful desktop with large monitor.
10" tablets have there place but its not in my hands.
And in the summer I can carry it with me. But for most of the year I can put it in a jacket. It also fits in my spring/fall work jacket as well. So I will still have it with me. I can even ask my wife to toss it in her purse if I have it in a case. I can't do that with a 10" unless she has a beach bag.
"You can't make everybody happy!" Words to live by.
James
Tablet is not all about portability. It is about media consumption, and the larger the better without getting bulky.
There's no denying there's market for 7" tablets though. The question is where is the bigger market.01-22-12 03:53 PMLike 0 - There's a perfect launch, and there's a decent launch, then there are others.
If you're the first to market, you don't need a perfect launch.
If you're NOT the first to market, you almost need a perfect launch to stay competitive.
I don't agree this is a test platform. They simply could not enter tablet market with current OS, as simple as that. If this is truly a test platform, they are scaring off a lot of investors.. which is last thing they want.
Also, RIM is not a student. In the world of business, there are no students.
Rim could not have had a perfect launch.
Not top dog.
new os.
First tablet.
Weak app world.
With that combo there is no perfect launch.
They want in on the tablet market. They also want to make something of QNX to make the first BB10 phone launch that much better.
James01-22-12 05:25 PMLike 0 - You don't need 10", I don't want 10", doesn't matter. What matters is what majority of people want or need. Remember, Samsung thought 7" is better than 10", their first tablet was 7". Now they have 10" which is the best seller of their line up which includes 5.5", 7", 8", 10".
Tablet is not all about portability. It is about media consumption, and the larger the better without getting bulky.
There's no denying there's market for 7" tablets though. The question is where is the bigger market.
I will always believe that there is no perfect size for everyone. Best case you would have two sizes to offer but I don't think its good for Blackberry right now. For the next tablet maybe.
James01-22-12 05:40 PMLike 0 - With your last line your digging way to deep into it. I didn't say they were a student.
Rim could not have had a perfect launch.
Not top dog.
new os.
First tablet.
Weak app world.
With that combo there is no perfect launch.
They want in on the tablet market. They also want to make something of QNX to make the first BB10 phone launch that much better.
James
Anyway, so their only way to get more sales was by dropping price below the cost. That is not a sustainable business model.
On the other hand, how will BB10 make BB phone better than they are now? Many people talk about BB10 being something of revolutionary, but to consumers the difference will be hardly noticeable.
Also, the current wifi only PB creates problems for them, as these devices cannot access their own servers directly with their security protocols, thus the reason for newer PB models with 3G/LTE. Will BBM be made available on wifi PB? Not likely.01-22-12 09:44 PMLike 0 - For me tablets don't make since if they are not portable. Which is the biggest market? Beats me. I thought tablets were wrong in so many ways when they first came out. I told people why I thought they were not that great imo. For me i was right about most of it. It turns out that I like it more then I thought I would but there are still issues with them. But they have their place. Because of all that and I think they are over priced I'm not the average tablet customer.
I will always believe that there is no perfect size for everyone. Best case you would have two sizes to offer but I don't think its good for Blackberry right now. For the next tablet maybe.
James
I don't think tablets can replace PCs, but the modern tablets can replace a lot of what PCs do for users today, with better interface. Capacitive multitouch interface is responsive, and lets you work on what you see on the screen directly, which is not possible on PCs (aided by mouse or digitizers but they are just different), add to that tremendous battery life really makes it *portable* - more than just size and weight, but you don't need to carry your charger everywhere you go.01-22-12 09:50 PMLike 0 - There is more to this than hardware specifications.
RIM's market share tumbled last year. The board has been under pressure from shareholders, the the joint CEOs have stood down.
While the Playbook OS is great, most people don't care about that, they want lots of Apps and compatibility with existing phones.
Android and Apple dominate the phone and tablet market.
So, for RIM to successfully release a Playbook 2, it will have to be a very special device to attract buyers from outside the current Blackberry community.01-23-12 04:14 AMLike 0 - 10" is simply too big.
i'd be delighted if rim stuck an eight screen (think Motorolla Xoom2) in the same size chassis as the original playbook.
don't worry about the bezel business, nokia make it work just fine with a tiny bezel on the N9.
oh, and the other thing i want is a 28nm SoC with ARM A15 CPU's and an OpenGL ES 3.0 GPU, along with Qt 5.0 integrated into OS 2.x.Last edited by jedibeeftrix; 01-23-12 at 06:16 AM.
01-23-12 05:05 AMLike 0 - Nope, anything bigger than the current one and people will leave it at home. The PB as is is as big as it can possibly be and fit into most coat pockets. I have 3 different coats which the PlayBook just barely fits into. Even half an inch more and it wouldn't work anymore.04-23-12 01:51 AMLike 0
- 10" and 4G, please. no more of this wifi model + slow bridge + people piggybacking on data plan..it is not selling. blackberry sells on mobility, data compression and reliability, not on a patchy bluetooth which doesn't work well.
a 10" wifi model would probably ends up as wifi 7"04-23-12 02:24 AMLike 0
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