[jstray]

Am I the only person on CB that is constantly changing blackberrys? They sent me an email asking for proof of purchase but they don't say what would suffice as proof (I lost my phone so this is the insurance replacement), if I spent my own money on their apps then why do they make it so hard to switch it to another phone? It's getting on my nerves already, my apps are about to stop working because they won't give me resolution

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[stacyadell]

I am on my 3rd replacement S1 - one stolen and one with a screen that stopped responding and I have to say it took quite some time after my last replacement to get my new codes. I had to email costumer support 2 or 3 times I think requesting that they reset my device PIN. They did not give me a problem replacing or ask for proof but it definitely was not as quick as the first time I needed to change PIN #s.

[ttfmaep]

There were some issues with people who were switching back and forth between two BlackBerrys. They put limits in place, because buying one copy of an app for two devices isn't fair to either the developer or to MobiHand.

And here's some advice that you didn't ask for, but it may be helpful to someone. If you are buying apps for more than one active phone, create a MobiHand account for each. Then if one phone is replaced, only those apps are switched over.

[papped]

There's a million threads on this.

You can't just switch pin's at will. If that was the case you could just switch your pin to anyone's pin that you want and get a free registration code for the entire world off of one account.

[Blacklac]

There were some issues with people who were switching back and forth between two BlackBerrys. They put limits in place, because buying one copy of an app for two devices isn't fair to either the developer or to MobiHand.

And here's some advice that you didn't ask for, but it may be helpful to someone. If you are buying apps for more than one active phone, create a MobiHand account for each. Then if one phone is replaced, only those apps are switched over.

I am one who switches between 2 Blackberries, both for personal use. I really don't understand how this is unfair to either Mobihand or the developers. I am the one who paid for the App and I am the ONLY person using it. Why does it matter what phone I use? As far as Mobihand, they could easily add to their system for multiple devices (limiting to 2 or 3) per account, with verification of course. Print out of receipt or copy of UPC or whatever it would take.

Honestly, that is ridiculous and if that happens to me, I will be very upset! That is a flat out rip off, IMO. Even App world doesn't pull that crap... (as long as the App supports both devices)

[papped]

As far as Mobihand, they could easily add to their system for multiple devices (limiting to 2 or 3) per account, with verification of course. Print out of receipt or copy of UPC or whatever it would take.

I don't think you really get how this works. The apps are tied to pin, not UPC, not ESN, not MSID, not whatever else proof you are talking about... That proof you mentioned does nothing...

Even IF they allowed you to have 2-3 pin's per account, if you could swap apps between those pins you'd only have to (and people would) buy 1 copy per 2-3 devices, which regardless of however customers feel about it, is not fair to developers.

1 license purchased is for 1 device, not 2-3.

Even worse, having 2-3 registered devices per account does not remove the need to swap out pins. So how does this solve the problem? Now you have someone pin swapping 2-3 active pins per account instead of 1...

[ttfmaep]

@Blacklac:

First of all, developing and maintaining the system you think they should have costs money. Second, do you honestly think it's fair to bother MobiHand with emails and proofs of purchase to save $4 or so? They could not stay in business, and developers would not want to deal with them.

I for one want MobiHand to succeed. I really don't want to ever have to buy anything from App World.

[Blacklac]

Papped - First don't assume you do or don't know what some else thinks, it just makes you look ignorant.

I am well aware Registration codes are locked to PIN's.

You guys just aren't going to convince me that its fair to expect to have to pay for another Key just because you want to swap phones for a week. No way. A major part of running a successful business is offering good customer service and making your customers happy. If you make it clear you are just in it for the money, you won't last long.

I don't know a lot of computer software that locks you to 1 computer. I'm sure someone will find a product to prove me wrong there. . Most that I have bought give you "up to 3 computers" or whatever. Just my opinion, I think the same should apply here, but that is completely up to the developers. I know most people only have 1 phone, so they don't really care. Maybe if they were actually in this situation they would understand how the OP and I feel.

I don't want Mobihand to fail either, I pretty much use them exclusively. I don't know where you got that from... If they stop switching my keys/codes, I will stop using them though.

I don't see how it costs so much to have the option to register 2 devices on 1 Mobihand account. That is quite laughable actually. I mean, they "kind" of have that already, you just manually switch your PIN on the account, you just have to wait for them to reregister all your codes again. Waste of time, you should just be able to have up to 2 devices, or whatever, and swap them freely, unless a developer specifically blocks this type of use.

I'm curious, you guys that are against swapping Apps to 2nd devices, are you developers or do you own more than 1 Blackberry?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[papped]

Papped - First don't assume you do or don't know what some else thinks, it just makes you look ignorant.

I am well aware Registration codes are locked to PIN's.

Ok so you "know" that it's locked to pins, yet your suggested fix is to implement manual verification of UPC copies or paper receipts, none of which have anything to do with device pins.

So enlighten us on how this verification system works...

Waste of time, you should just be able to have up to 2 devices, or whatever, and swap them freely, unless a developer specifically blocks this type of use.

Given the option EVERY developer will block free pin swapping if it's allowed... Feel free to pretend it's not true.

I don't know a lot of computer software that locks you to 1 computer. I'm sure someone will find a product to prove me wrong there.

Wow....just wow... Speaking of ignorance... Clearly you have never heard of a node-locked license, which is *extremely* common... You might want to take a look at the license agreement for that little piece of software you call an OS too while you're at it.

[Blacklac]

Man, don't take it personal or anything...

Ridiculous.

Btw, I never suggested UPC codes for changing codes. Try reading that one again... They were talking about how to prove your purchase of the 2nd device.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[papped]

While you're at it you can go back and look at apps on WM5, WM6, WM6.5 as well as other mobile OSes that register based off things like device id. In other words, device specific registration codes...

And the only reason you're getting the smart-*** version instead of plain information is because of your comment above.

[Blacklac]

Right, nevermind your little assumption. . You are clearly taking this way too personally.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[jstray]

Why are you guys arguing? Lol, I'm just saying, I've gone through like 8 different devices, all I'm saying is that I'm not ripping anyone off, it's not my fault I upgrade or get faulty devices. I paid for the software and if I want to transfer it to a different phone then there shouldn't be a problem with it. It's already ridiculous that we have to pay for apps that other phones have for FREE, just my 2 cents. Shazam being a good example of this

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Blacklac]

Given the option EVERY developer will block free pin swapping if it's allowed... Feel free to pretend it's not true.

Given the option NOT ONE developer will block free pin swapping if it's allowed... Feel free to pretend it's not true. See, i can give my opinion too.



Wow....just wow... Speaking of ignorance... Clearly you have never heard of a node-locked license, which is *extremely* common... You might want to take a look at the license agreement for that little piece of software you call an OS too while you're at it.

We aren't talking about OS's and no I won't claim to know anything about Software Engineering or anything like that.

10 char.....

[papped]

Why are you guys arguing? Lol, I'm just saying, I've gone through like 8 different devices, all I'm saying is that I'm not ripping anyone off, it's not my fault I upgrade or get faulty devices. I paid for the software and if I want to transfer it to a different phone then there shouldn't be a problem with it. It's already ridiculous that we have to pay for apps that other phones have for FREE, just my 2 cents. Shazam being a good example of this

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Shazam is working on an entirely different registration model. That's the thing, if you understand how these registration models work, the system makes sense as to why you can't just switch at will.

Shazam uses server-side registration I'm quite certain. That means your pin is flagged as activated on their server and the app has to verify your registration across the internet on every launch. The downside is if their registration server goes down, or isn't running anymore, no registration or using the app for you at all.

Now do you want all of your apps doing this? No not really... It's not a good model for every app to follow for a number of reasons.

Local registration codes based on pin (the way most apps work), if I can switch at will on Mobihand for example, I could set up a form or collect pins from 5000 people and generate 5000 or 1000000 valid registration codes for any app for free with ease using their website. **** I could sell them their registration codes at a huge discount if I wanted to...

"But I wouldn't do that". Yeah you know who would, hacker and warez distribution sites (not even counting individuals). With a single mobihand account they could provide registrations for all apps for an infinite number of people with a single purchase.

[ttfmaep]

@jstray:
If your BlackBerry doesn't have some feature or utility that other phones have "for FREE", then be thankful and not angry at the developers that step in to fill the gap. (I don't know anything about Shazam, so if it free for other phones, but not BlackBerry, my comments don't apply to that.)

@Blacklac:
You seem too angry. Probably for less than what you spend on fast food or beer or movies (or some other discretionary spending) in one week, you could just buy a second copy of the apps you really need to have on both phones. And then you won't have to play the switching game.

[papped]

As for shazam, the iphone has the same limited free version and paid premium encore version like BB.

[Blacklac]

@Blacklac:
You seem too angry. Probably for less than what you spend on fast food or beer or movies (or some other discretionary spending) in one week, you could just buy a second copy of the apps you really need to have on both phones. And then you won't have to play the switching game.

Nah, not angry at all. I do apologize to the OP for his thread getting hijacked though. I didn't mean to, or even think i did, say anything to offend Papped. I just felt similar to what the OP felt, even though his situation was different. He had to return a few phones while I just flat out have 2 personal devices that I switch using from time to time. I didn't mean to offend a developer, they can surely do what they want with their Apps.

[epicdraws]

This thread is getting a bit out of control. Let me share some facts as a developer with several top apps in the MobiHand Store and App World.

Developers have no say in MobiHand's PIN swapping policies. As far as I understand, they allow 1 PIN swap in 3 to 6 months (again, not clear on the details). I am reasonably sure they came to this after balancing what happens to a typical user, and avoiding fraud. As others have said, if this process was unlimited, a user could just keep switching PINs and get registration keys for friends. Keep in mind you only need to register once to have the app forever. In short, I think what MobiHand has done is very reasonable.

Now, there certainly are users, and I am one myself, that change devices much more frequently than the average user. MobiHand DOES support this, they just do not make it as easy. Essentially, having to go through the process of emailing them and asking for a switch deters most of the fraudsters. It takes a special kind of person to send an email every week saying they got a new device just so they can hook up their friends.

I cannot speak for all developers, but I do not mind if a user has two phones, and needs the app on both. As with basically all software, the spirit of the agreement is that only one copy should ever be in use at a time. Once two phones are in use at the same time with an app, you really should buy two copies.

I also understand that the MobiHand process can be lengthy and annoying, and if that is the case, many of the better developers including myself will gladly process these PIN switches for you. If a developer has included a registration code, they clearly can issue you a new one. One thing customers should keep in mind is that this is a PRIVILEGE. Lots of software ties you to a single piece of hardware (such as Windows--sure you can get around it, but it also requires phone calls, etc.), so developers here generally are pretty lenient and offer you the app essentially for as long as you live. That's pretty nice considering these things are anywhere from $0.99 to $4.99 for most.

Before criticizing MobiHand too much, keep in mind that in order to buy a copy of an app for two phones using App World, you need two PayPal accounts. That means two bank accounts and two verification processes, etc. In general we have to direct customers that want second copies on App World to buy the second one on MobiHand.

In short, you have a few options:
- If you fall into the class of users that changes devices more than average, keep in mind you are a special case, and yes MobiHand will help you, but it will take longer than average.
- If you are in that class and are also not willing to wait for MobiHand, try dropping the developer an email. Chances are they will help you, but my one piece of advice is to be nice. We get a lot of nasty emails from people calling us fraudsters because we haven't somehow automatically known they have bought a new phone and activated it. Those things don't get you very far.
- If you are REALLY impatient and need the app now, as with many things in life, you have the option of paying for the privilege, which in this case means buying another copy. I agree this is not the ideal model, but I see it as no different than going to a local store and paying 20% more than Amazon because I want it NOW.

If you have any of my apps, drop me an email and we will get you taken care of within 24 hours.

[jstray]

@jstray:
If your BlackBerry doesn't have some feature or utility that other phones have "for FREE", then be thankful and not angry at the developers that step in to fill the gap. (I don't know anything about Shazam, so if it free for other phones, but not BlackBerry, my comments don't apply to that.)

@Blacklac:
You seem too angry. Probably for less than what you spend on fast food or beer or movies (or some other discretionary spending) in one week, you could just buy a second copy of the apps you really need to have on both phones. And then you won't have to play the switching game.

I used shazam as an example based off of the fact that I used a G1 for like 3 days and their app is completely free I just don't get why they choose to do that, Blackberry is already a costly phone with a costly plan so why do we have to pay for good apps when other platforms may have the same app available at no cost? Seems a little eerie to me. But my base complaint is that I go through many different berrys and I just wish they made switching pins easier, I already payed enough for the apps, berrybuzz and berryweather aren't really cheap. I do kind of like how shazam switches pins though just because there's no way of making fraudulent claims. -shrugs

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Shao128]

Well put Epic, I agree with everything you've said there.

A good chunk of my support emails are also people that have got a new device and are having an issue with swapping devices through MH. I completely understand MHs reasoning for doing it the way they do but if someone emails me I have no problem giving them a new code. As Epic said many developers will do the same.