[Acvdm]

I've seen some great affordable medium to low Samsung and Sony devices that have excellent battery life

should BlackBerry do the same? Compromise of a lot of the aesthetics and maybe only keep the camera decent??

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[bakron1]

Being Blackberry is still trying to rebuild their once iconic brand. I think the focus is to make a cheaper enterprise device for their clients who have been asking for a lower cost Android device. Even in the corporate sector the quality of the camera and screen are important when buying a capital expense device. At least it would be in my company, but I think they could farm it out to one of many Chinese manufactures and come up with a solid device for a reasonable cost.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Samsung is a large manufacture that tries to have products at most every price point and to meet the needs of very different markets.

A device that might be very popular in India, might not sell well in the US. A device that sells well in the US might not meet the needs of Indonesians.


Compromise.... yeah that's when I don't own a BlackBerry anymore, didn't see a reason for me to have to compromise.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Being Blackberry is still trying to rebuild their once iconic brand. I think the focus is to make a cheaper enterprise device for their clients who have been asking for a lower cost Android device. Even in the corporate sector the quality of the camera and screen are important when buying a capital expense device. At least it would be in my company, but I think they could farm it out to one of many Chinese manufactures and come up with a solid device for a reasonable cost.

Farm it out... just adds to the cost, BlackBerry will never be competitive on hardware.

Apparently, the Rome has internal specs that are like that of the Priv or otherwise the same... For Rome, we hear it could be priced as high as $500 USD or $629 CAD.

You can already get the PRIV for $500 US on Amazon, and the LG G4 with the sames specs can be had for $350....

I think what the corporate sector needs from BlackBerry... is a commitment of future devcies and continued software updates.

[slagman5]

Farm it out... just adds to the cost, BlackBerry will never be competitive on hardware.

You can already get the PRIV for $500 US on Amazon, and the LG G4 with the sames specs can be had for $350....

I think what the corporate sector needs from BlackBerry... is a commitment of future devcies and continued software updates.

Well, not speaking for everyone, but I'm willing to pay more for the keyboard because the other devices do not offer it. Specs mean little to me. As long as it's good enough to do what I need to do without lagging, how I interface with the device is 100 times as important...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Well, not speaking for everyone, but I'm willing to pay more for the keyboard because the other devices do not offer it. Specs mean little to me. As long as it's good enough to do what I need to do without lagging, how I interface with the device is 100 times as important...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

I just not sure what percentage of the smartphone userbase you are speaking for... 5%, 1%, .5%. .05%?

Very possible that we will get an Android device with a dedicated PKB that is reasonable priced, and we will find out if there is a market for a PKB device anymore or not. Becuase it's clear that an optional PKB was not enough to get enough of those PKB lovers to overpay.

[ubizmo]

When you consider that you could buy the OnePlus One in 2014 for $350 with specs comparable to the Passport's, if BlackBerry wants to compete in that market, they can't really go lower than that benchmark in specs. The OPO has 3 GB RAM, 401 ppi screen, 3,100 mAh battery, 65 GB storage (no SD card, so that's negotiable).

Pixel density can be overrated, but it does help to create a striking impression when you're looking at phones in a store. The Passport's pixel density is 453. Since I own both the Passport and OPO, I can say that I don't notice a great deal of difference between them, in terms of the quality of what my eye can see. Both are very good. If they were to opt for a lower pixel density than 400 on the Vienna/Rome, as they did with the Z30, I don't think the result in the market would be good.

With any smartphone, the rubber meets the road with the basic input and output operations. So the device should be pleasing to the eyes and fingers. For those who like a PKB, they should produce a good one. I suspect the majority of PKB users prefer their classic 4-row setup, but I'm not sure. Personally, I wouldn't demand something as wide as the Passport, much as I like that width, but I'd like something a few millimeters wider than the typical Android slab--just enough to be distinctive. I don't know if that would be popular, however.

For the eyes, a good sharp screen matters. I really don't think they should scrimp there. They don't have to go to insane pixel densities, but they can't drop back below 400 ppi, in my opinion. If they have to cut corners to keep the price down, they could refuse to participate in the camera megapixel arms race. Maybe drop NFC.

[slagman5]

I just not sure what percentage of the smartphone userbase you are speaking for... 5%, 1%, .5%. .05%?

Very possible that we will get an Android device with a dedicated PKB that is reasonable priced, and we will find out if there is a market for a PKB device anymore or not. Becuase it's clear that an optional PKB was not enough to get enough of those PKB lovers to overpay.

I don't "speak for" anyone but myself. I have no idea how many others think like me and I honestly don't care.

I'm pretty sure most people out there would rather fit in with an identical phone as others anyway. So I'm sure you're right that people like me are in the minority.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

For the eyes, a good sharp screen matters. I really don't think they should scrimp there. They don't have to go to insane pixel densities, but they can't drop back below 400 ppi, in my opinion. If they have to cut corners to keep the price down, they could refuse to participate in the camera megapixel arms race. Maybe drop NFC.

Dropping the camera MP has always been what BlackBerry has been known for. The problem is what ever they decide to cut, some Android OEM has already done it.

I think the key, is take your toys and go play by yourself.

No launch party, no devcies sent to reviewers, no normal carrier/retailers. Build these phones, sell them along with BES/Good as a package. Maybe release some to Amazon for the hardcore fans... but they'll be $100 over comparable Moto, Samsung, HTC type devices, and $150 - $200 over the Chinese market. I doubt fans will care about the all touch, but those that really want a PKB and are ready to move on from BB10 will buy the "ROME".

Just not sure it will be a viable Hardware Business.

[slagman5]

When you consider that you could buy the OnePlus One in 2014 for $350 with specs comparable to the Passport's, if BlackBerry wants to compete in that market, they can't really go lower than that benchmark in specs. The OPO has 3 GB RAM, 401 ppi screen, 3,100 mAh battery, 65 GB storage (no SD card, so that's negotiable).

Pixel density can be overrated, but it does help to create a striking impression when you're looking at phones in a store. The Passport's pixel density is 453. Since I own both the Passport and OPO, I can say that I don't notice a great deal of difference between them, in terms of the quality of what my eye can see. Both are very good. If they were to opt for a lower pixel density than 400 on the Vienna/Rome, as they did with the Z30, I don't think the result in the market would be good.

With any smartphone, the rubber meets the road with the basic input and output operations. So the device should be pleasing to the eyes and fingers. For those who like a PKB, they should produce a good one. I suspect the majority of PKB users prefer their classic 4-row setup, but I'm not sure. Personally, I wouldn't demand something as wide as the Passport, much as I like that width, but I'd like something a few millimeters wider than the typical Android slab--just enough to be distinctive. I don't know if that would be popular, however.

For the eyes, a good sharp screen matters. I really don't think they should scrimp there. They don't have to go to insane pixel densities, but they can't drop back below 400 ppi, in my opinion. If they have to cut corners to keep the price down, they could refuse to participate in the camera megapixel arms race. Maybe drop NFC.

Hell no on dropping NFC. I use NFC on a daily basis...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[ubizmo]

No launch party, no devcies sent to reviewers, no normal carrier/retailers. Build these phones, sell them along with BES/Good as a package. Maybe release some to Amazon for the hardcore fans... but they'll be $100 over comparable Moto, Samsung, HTC type devices, and $150 - $200 over the Chinese market. I doubt fans will care about the all touch, but those that really want a PKB and are ready to move on from BB10 will buy the "ROME".

Just not sure it will be a viable Hardware Business.

It can only be a niche business and, as such, it has to identify what's most important to the niche. If it's the classic four-row keyboard, as I suspect, then the Passport's three-row must be thrown overboard. They're never going to compete with top-end phone cameras, so they should stick with "adequate" and move on. I mentioned NFC might go, which slagman objected to, but I base that only on my sense that there isn't a broad demand for NFC in the BlackBerry niche. I may well be wrong.

Yes, I agree it'll cost more than a comparable Chinese Android device, but the PKB and, to a lesser extent, security image, can possibly make it attractive, as long as the price doesn't drift too high. And they have to continue to improve their proprietary software.

It's still a long shot, but not as wild as the Priv turned out to be. I was in a T-Mobile store the other day (I don't go into these stores much anymore) and saw the Priv lined up in a display alongside some other high-end Android phones. The Priv was the most expensive phone in the lineup. The Rome, I think, doesn't have to be the cheapest Android phone with mid-range specs, but it has to be in the mix somewhere, so that buyers won't feel they're being punished for buying a BlackBerry.

Getting back to the OP's topic, I don't think the screen has to be state of the art, but it shouldn't go back down below 400 ppi. 13 MP is probably fine for the camera. Others have already address SoC considerations. If, by some miracle, they can hit upon an "Android Bold" kind of formula, it could gain a small following that would let them cycle it through a series of minor upgrades over the coming years, like the old Bolds. It would only have to be good enough to keep them in the device business with a reasonably priced but secure Android phone that would have some appeal as a fleet phone, and would also keep some (but by no means all) of the fan base buying them.

[mvsalvino]

Things I'd happily compromise:

- Camera 2MP front, 8MP rear. Heck I honestly believe 5MP is more than enough, but people would be outraged at that.

- Screen, as long as it is clear and color accurate. Display color and PPI of the Classic is perfectly fine IMO.

- Specs. I know android is a pig, but do we honestly need 8 cores and 3GB memory? A standard processor and 2GB are perfectly serviceable.

- DO NOT skimp on the build quality though. I look at something like the Lumia 650 and feel like someone finally built a device for me. Excellent build quality, display, and battery; mid-range specs and price. Same thing with the Classic (although overpriced for what it was when it came out)

 C L A S S I C

[deadcowboy]

Things I'd happily compromise:

- Camera 2MP front, 8MP rear. Heck I honestly believe 5MP is more than enough, but people would be outraged at that.

- Screen, as long as it is clear and color accurate. Display color and PPI of the Classic is perfectly fine IMO.

- Specs. I know android is a pig, but do we honestly need 8 cores and 3GB memory? A standard processor and 2GB are perfectly serviceable.

- DO NOT skimp on the build quality though. I look at something like the Lumia 650 and feel like someone finally built a device for me. Excellent build quality, display, and battery; mid-range specs and price. Same thing with the Classic (although overpriced for what it was when it came out)

 C L A S S I C

You can't skimp on a good camera in this day and age. This will kill any chance of consumer popularity. And with BYOD...

The Classic has a nice screen, but it is way too oversaturated. It's really bad. Emulate Apple: color-accurate, easy on the eyes, medium-resolution, tried and true LCD. I think you're almost spot on, but the Classic has issues (though I think it's a great screen if I had saturation control, as it is actually color-accurate/white).

2gb won't cut it. Everyone has 4gb now. May as well have 3 or 4gb if you're going to release it "by the end of 2016"

Build quality is right. More important than materials. Nokia built some beautiful plastic phones. The Q5 was a beautifully made plastic phone, and it was tough. The Priv is temperamental, bad QC. We need fewer returns due to poor quality control. I still don't understand why BlackBerry has such poor QC.

Posted via CB10

[slagman5]

Things I'd happily compromise:

- Camera 2MP front, 8MP rear. Heck I honestly believe 5MP is more than enough, but people would be outraged at that.

- Screen, as long as it is clear and color accurate. Display color and PPI of the Classic is perfectly fine IMO.

- Specs. I know android is a pig, but do we honestly need 8 cores and 3GB memory? A standard processor and 2GB are perfectly serviceable.

- DO NOT skimp on the build quality though. I look at something like the Lumia 650 and feel like someone finally built a device for me. Excellent build quality, display, and battery; mid-range specs and price. Same thing with the Classic (although overpriced for what it was when it came out)

 C L A S S I C

I couldn't care less about the front camera, but the main/rear camera should be much better than that... And more RAM never hurts, seriously.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[mvsalvino]

You can't skimp on a good camera in this day and age. This will kill any chance of consumer popularity. And with BYOD...

I know I know, people are obsessed with megapixels. I just personally don't care. Have you seen the "shot with Q10" threads on here? Some pretty sharp images IMO.

The Classic has a nice screen, but it is way too oversaturated. It's really bad. Emulate Apple: color-accurate, easy on the eyes, medium-resolution, tried and true LCD. I think you're almost spot on, but the Classic has issues (though I think it's a great screen if I had saturation control, as it is actually color-accurate/white).

I personally think the Classic screen's color balance is pretty good. Q10's AMOLED drove me nuts with the greenish hue. I'm sure Classic's screen looks terrible compared to something like the Passport's. I've used several other devices in the past and find the Classic's acceptable (since we're talking about compromises here)

2gb won't cut it. Everyone has 4gb now. May as well have 3 or 4gb if you're going to release it "by the end of 2016"

You're probably right. Last android device I used was nexus 4, and it still runs buttery smooth with lollipop. But I'm sure with all the google spyware these days running in the background you need that extra gig.

Build quality is right. More important than materials. Nokia built some beautiful plastic phones. The Q5 was a beautifully made plastic phone, and it was tough. The Priv is temperamental, bad QC. We need fewer returns due to poor quality control. I still don't understand why BlackBerry has such poor QC.

I haven't found build quality to be lacking on Q10 or Classic. Classic has a few creaks that are borderline annoying, but still feels more solid than any android device I've held.



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[Sigewif]

I agree that the camera should be very good. Get a better front facing camera. My last phone had a 5 mp camera. Dismal.

Posted with my Priv via the CrackBerry App for Android

[ubizmo]

The thing about camera megapixels is that beyond a certain point more is not better, unless you're printing enlargements. And that's something not many people do anymore. It's a niche demand. Most photos today are looked at on mobile or laptop screens with resolutions that don't begin to approach the high megapixel numbers that people think they need. The Samsung S7 has a 2560x1440 pixel screen. That's 3.7 MP. The Surface Pro 4 has a screen resolution of 26\736x1824 pixels, which comes to 5 MP. If your digital image has more pixels, these devices must throw pixels overboard to display it.

Having more megapixels is useful for digital zoom/cropping, but even that capability depends on having quality optics to support it. If the optics are mediocre, your zoomed image will look bad no matter how many MP your camera has. Which brings us to the point that once you reach 5 MP--or let's say 8 MP to allow for minor zoom/crop modifications--the quality of your photos depends far more upon the quality of the optics and the image processing software.

But if we're talking about a mid-range device with a mid-range price, can we really be insisting on top-end camera optics and software? If so, we'll need more processing speed and power to keep the camera from lagging, and then it doesn't sound like a mid-range phone anymore. Which is why I think a mid-range device has to have a mid-range camera.

[BB_PP]

I just not sure what percentage of the smartphone userbase you are speaking for... 5%, 1%, .5%. .05%?

Very possible that we will get an Android device with a dedicated PKB that is reasonable priced, and we will find out if there is a market for a PKB device anymore or not. Becuase it's clear that an optional PKB was not enough to get enough of those PKB lovers to overpay.

I don't mind if BlackBerry is .5% or less, I like BlackBerry and I love their hardware. My money my choice! If I care trends I'll be more like herd

Posted via Passport,

[ChainPunch]

I think the phone will be fine if it has the Priv specs internally and upgraded front facing camera, as my view point is that even with doing that the per device cost will be cheaper than the Priv. Another thing is I would like to know blackberry's plan for upgrades to their hardware: are they planning to do a device refresh every year or every 2 years? Too me it is not necessary to do a device refresh every year like the other android makers as long as they plan to keep up to date with updates and new versions of android.

If they go with the 2 year refresh cycle, then I would recommend 4 GB of RAM.

Posted via CB10

[app_Developer]

I don't mind if BlackBerry is .5% or less, I like BlackBerry and I love their hardware. My money my choice! If I care trends I'll be more like herd

You won't have a choice of BB hardware if they can't sell enough to make a viable business. So you actually do care about market share.

[slagman5]

The thing about camera megapixels is that beyond a certain point more is not better, unless you're printing enlargements. And that's something not many people do anymore. It's a niche demand. Most photos today are looked at on mobile or laptop screens with resolutions that don't begin to approach the high megapixel numbers that people think they need. The Samsung S7 has a 2560x1440 pixel screen. That's 3.7 MP. The Surface Pro 4 has a screen resolution of 26\736x1824 pixels, which comes to 5 MP. If your digital image has more pixels, these devices must throw pixels overboard to display it.

Having more megapixels is useful for digital zoom/cropping, but even that capability depends on having quality optics to support it. If the optics are mediocre, your zoomed image will look bad no matter how many MP your camera has. Which brings us to the point that once you reach 5 MP--or let's say 8 MP to allow for minor zoom/crop modifications--the quality of your photos depends far more upon the quality of the optics and the image processing software.

But if we're talking about a mid-range device with a mid-range price, can we really be insisting on top-end camera optics and software? If so, we'll need more processing speed and power to keep the camera from lagging, and then it doesn't sound like a mid-range phone anymore. Which is why I think a mid-range device has to have a mid-range camera.

While I do not support the argument that simply more pixels mean better quality, but higher resolutions actually do result in better quality as long as the other aspects of the camera are up to par as well. If you take 2 photos of the same thing, one at 3MP and the other at 12MP and downsize the 12MP photo to 3MP and compare them, you'll see that the downsized one actually should look better. Same with video, look online for the comparisons between videos taken with a DSLR at a 1080p resolution and those taken with the new iPhone at 4K downsized to 1080p. Am I saying the iPhone has a better camera than a DSLR? Of course not, but recording at a higher resolution does keep a whole lot more information, especially if you're saving the photo in a compressed format such as jpeg instead of RAW. The higher resolutions will help.

And like you mentioned, if you need to crop or use digital zoom the higher resolution also helps.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[BB_PP]

You won't have a choice of BB hardware if they can't sell enough to make a viable business. So you actually do care about market share.

I have seen last 4 years of BlackBerry, so many rumours and chaos but they are in business. Yes I do care about BlackBerry's existence in market.

Posted via Passport,

[mvsalvino]

The thing about camera megapixels is that beyond a certain point more is not better, unless you're printing enlargements. And that's something not many people do anymore. It's a niche demand. Most photos today are looked at on mobile or laptop screens with resolutions that don't begin to approach the high megapixel numbers that people think they need. The Samsung S7 has a 2560x1440 pixel screen. That's 3.7 MP. The Surface Pro 4 has a screen resolution of 26\736x1824 pixels, which comes to 5 MP. If your digital image has more pixels, these devices must throw pixels overboard to display it.

Having more megapixels is useful for digital zoom/cropping, but even that capability depends on having quality optics to support it. If the optics are mediocre, your zoomed image will look bad no matter how many MP your camera has. Which brings us to the point that once you reach 5 MP--or let's say 8 MP to allow for minor zoom/crop modifications--the quality of your photos depends far more upon the quality of the optics and the image processing software.

But if we're talking about a mid-range device with a mid-range price, can we really be insisting on top-end camera optics and software? If so, we'll need more processing speed and power to keep the camera from lagging, and then it doesn't sound like a mid-range phone anymore. Which is why I think a mid-range device has to have a mid-range camera.

Thank you! My point exactly. Although the android world is much less rational than the BlackBerry, Apple, and Windows worlds. It's an arms race for specs.

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[macterp]

QC needs to be priority, my Q10 has been dropped, fell off desk at work, carried in my back pocket for almost 3 yrs now and have not had any issues whatsoever. Built like a tank, takes it all in and keeps working like a charm. If they build Rome the same way, I'll commit to be one of the 1st in line to buy on day 1! Just keep me out of all the issues I've read about with new Priv buyers. I really wanted that phone but refuse to buy with all of the headaches I've read about. I don't have the time to try and solve the potential problems I've read about with that phone and can't afford to roll the dice...

Posted via CB10