[owczi]

Hi All,

Here's my story.

I have been using company issued Curves for some five years now. Absolutely loved them, they allowed me to get things done in no time, couldn't fault them. Sturdy, small and light, good battery life after years of use. But as I needed to browse the web more often and do more non-work stuff, OS7 and sluggish performance finally weren't enough. To tip the scales, things have changed with my employer and I was handed a nice shiny... HTC One Mini 2. What an atrocity. I never even swapped the SIM card and kept using the old Curve, just without BES. Still perfectly usable, but with the browser crashing more often than displaying any websites, I decided to pull the trigger on the new Classic, return the HTC and try to get it reimbursed. Price difference was negligible.

So I got the phone yesterday ( I've now finished exploring it, I think). It's solid as a brick. I could easily defend myself with it. The keyboard is an absolute wonder. The screen is great and the square ratio works for me. But then I powered it on.

Before I start - I understand that OS10 is largely a rewrite on the new QNX foundation and is mostly a spiritual continuation of the previous OS. As to my background - I'm an IT engineer and my day job is testing high-end networking equipment and beating up vendors for no doing their QA right. As a side effect I help many vendors improve their products. I would describe myself much an old-school, deeply technical user, a very critical and demanding one, with a strong preference for keyboard navigation. At the same time I understand that making unreasonable requests is pointless and there are large frameworks, architectures and processes behind improving and developing a software or a hardware product. Many things are not simple to fix. But many are trivial.

Here are my observations so far and I'm wondering if I'm just asking for too much or is there an actual chance to put things right:

-Blackberry App World selection is even worse than on OS7! OK, supply-demand.

Many apps I used all the time are not available for BB10 - (BBSSH for example, but even things like online banking apps for my bank). Yes, this is due to small demand - is it possible to sideload any of those old apps on OS10?

- Constantly degrading usability reached another step down:

On my OS6 phone I could hold the A button [ANYWHERE] and it would password-lock my phone. On OS7 this was gone, I had to do an alt-enter - but only from the home screen. Now I have to hold K to password-lock it, or select the option from the power off menu. Why do I think this is worse? Because it takes more time and attention to do it.

- The polished UI-keyboard interaction that BB mastered, is now largely gone.

The back key and end call key used to work as an universal Escape key. Not anymore. Say, unlock dialog pops up: the only way I can close it is by tapping the screen. Why can't back or end call close it? In the previous OS, pressing Enter or pad or any button would bring up the password prompt. Now, only the pad or back or call buttons do it. Space or Enter don't. Also, first press of a key doesn't bring up the prompt, it only wakes up the screen. In previous OSes I could just start typing the password. Why do I think this is worse? It slows you down! I can't unlock my Classic faster than my old Curve.

To use special characters, in OS7 I would hold the letter and scroll the touchpad. Super quick. Now I have to do it the iOS way and tap the damned thing on the screen.

What happened to fast task switching? In previous OSes Alt-back would give me a list of open apps, and furthermore, Alt-back would toggle between current and last app, which was a lightning fast way of moving information between different sources.

- Finally, what happened to the home screen and why launching apps is now slower?

Who thought that a list of open apps should be your starting screen? Why can't I pin anything or add anything to this space? Why has it even got a home icon on it if it's NOT the actual home screen? Am I doing something wrong?

- Is there an alternative to the Hub? Namely - launchers for individual inboxes?

The side shortcut keys are gone in this model, but also the choice of my inbox is two screen swipes away. In OS7 you had dedicated icons for your multiple inboxes, why can't I have this on the "home" screen?

Other stuff:

- No profile icons anymore, only a bell/crossed bell. There used to be icons for all the profiles so you instantly knew what mode the phone is in.

- When I try using the Amazon app store (which is a bit of a joke, content wise), the poor thing keeps getting confused and re-downloads the same app for the second or third time or randomly pops up with an installation screen from a previously installed app.

- The blinking data send/receive icon is gone. I can't see what the phone is doing anymore!

- The Maps app is now usable. Wow. Can actually find stuff. Still very little, and the dashboard display is so-so, but it can do something. BUT otherwise the choice of map apps is poor.

- Youtube is still a web shortcut, no native app. Meaning: if the website is blocked on the wifi network you're on, no youtube for you - while the native app on all other platforms still works just fine.

This is more or less it. My experience so far is that the new phone may well be shiny, sturdy and contemporary, but it actually slows me down! On top of that, it still does not do "fun" stuff - I do not mean games. I mean video streaming apps I use in the UK, plus Netflix. OK, app selection is to do with low popularity of the platform. I get it. But the bottom line is - the phone is not sluggish anymore, but in most other respects, I find it "worse" than my 9320!

Yes, the Classic is a touch screen device with a keyboard and apparently not the other way round - am I expecting too much by wanting it to be fully usable with the keyboard only? Do other OS10 phones like the Zs and Qs retain any of the stuff I'm missing from my Curve?

All this time I'm sitting here and meandering helplessly through the UI and app store and thinking to myself... I know another platform that while annoying more ways I can think of, does it all and has it all. It starts with an "i". OK, that was uncalled for, but you know what I mean. I am backing up the settings on my 9320 as we speak and preparing for a wipe to get rid of any remaining IT policies from the BES time.

Most of this has probably been discussed before I would gess... Thoughts, comments?

[John Crist]

You aren't wrong, and there are those of us who still use an old BBOS device for the same reasons. A lot of BB10 has come a long way, but some aspects are still on deaf ears. I'm personally switching back to a 9930 in a few days. My gripe is mainly animations. They look pretty, but add up that quarter of a second, a hundred thousand times, for days on end. It adds up.

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[VeryBumpy]

Welcome to the club, OP.

As you have keenly noted, speed and efficiency are not the Classics strong points.

You either slow down and enjoy the other features of the phone or move to something else.

[John Vieira]

The thing is that BB10 Is a completely new OS and was never designed to use with the trackpad and toolbelt.

As such, things don't make sense, they're not cohesive, and everyone who used OS7 just wishes it was like that.


I maintain that making the classic was a mistake. It's not attracting new customers, it's only pissing off older users.

At the end of the day, this is a new OS. Experiences best on the Q, passport or Z devices.

Try a couple days of the classic without touching the toolbelt, it will make much more sense after.

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[jeremyr4]

Let me just point out to everyone that if BB can't make a device that will appeal enough to their core 9900 users to upgrade then their days of making hardware devices are limited, as the carriers aren't exactly supporting BB very much right now. So hopefully many of the 9900 users will find it bearable enough to justify the upgrade.

I'm coming from a Motorola Q9c and the transition to touchscreen (it's only been a day now) has been tough, as it seems needlessly complicated in many ways. Overall my efficiency will probably increase but that's only because I'm coming from a 6-7 year old phone (and even then some things are more efficient and others aren't). Anyhow, I, for one, hope that the Classic is appealing enough for 9900 users, as I want BB to exist as a hardware manufacturer so that I can keep buying a keyboard phone!!

I will say that 10.3 is MUCH improved vs my previous attempt when the Q10 was originally released. Hopefully it will be compelling enough for many others...

[TinMan555]

Rest assured there are many, many users out there that feel the same about one or several of your points, the forum is littered with similar threads. Personally my biggest gripe, which you actually didn't mention, is the options/settings/menus. As I said elsewhere, there is sometimes three separate menus in one app (clock is one). Also when changing settings or customising the phone, sometimes you have an option to save and other times you don't. This is problematic in that the menus where you exit and don't have to save, if you accidentally put the volume down or change a setting, you may not even realise, which has happened to me mainly in 'profile' notifications. As you mentioned with the profiles on os7 it was much simpler and informative than bb10. Home screen as you mentioned, should have option to place icons on it, like every other phone. As for icons for your accounts, there is actually a handy app called 'short cuts creator' that does the job (no little message notify on the folder when you get a new email or msg though). Speaking of apps, I also think its ridiculous that there are awesome apps from os7 that are no longer available, 'advanced calls & OS' being one, which would be ok if there was a substitute that was at LEAST, just as good.
On the positives, the hardware looks and feels good, (built like a T-34 Tank) of course the keyboard is a gem, in fact that is the main, if only, reason I stuck with BB this time around.
ps slow as a wet week!

[forevergreen]

I agree with everything you've said. Phone is driving me nuts, especially lack of keyboard integration. Can't all of these things be fixed? Will they be in future updates?

I'm really not a fan of how a short press on any letter starts a search. The screen that pops up seems a bit manic too. In time, have any of you actually found it useful?

Also, I don't like how "send", "save", or even "post" as on the screen now is always at the top of screen. If you can't use the keyboard, then have those commands at bottom of screen, immediately over the keyboard.

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[brdl04]

Two things:

Your issues are not invalid. Everyone gets used to something and when it changes you get pushback. Apple hasn't had much pushback because their OS hasn't been around long enough, but even then when IOS7 came out the dissatisfaction was apparent.

I would recommend you go back to BBOS if you aren't happy with the new BB10, but one day it will go away and you will be forced to switch.

Also, the classic has been out for how long? 3 months? OS updates will come in time and things will get better.

I liked Symbian better than other OS options for its customization, but at one point I had to move on.

[owczi]

...so I spewed out my original frustration with the Classic, and never actually came back and read through this thread because the moderation took a bit long. Truth is that I forgot BB7 and learned to love the Classic. I did not realise that this was only in May that I got it. It may not be the fastest, but it mostly works. I just lowered my expectations. At least it still had a physical BlackBerry button.

Unfortunately my employer has gone through BES -> BES is costing us money, we're moving back to ActiveSync (worked perfectly) -> ooh, let's do BYOD, there's this new "Good Technology" sandbox thing, we'll shove that down their throats. Good has no native BB support, so I used my classic and Android Good on it via Snap. It worked but was painfully slow... and when it started impeding my work, I had no option but to get the Priv, which I did about a month ago. So if you think BB10 was bad, wait until you get a Priv. It's an Android phone, but it ain't no BlackBerry. They don't make them like they used to.

Although Good was acquired by BB, realitsically I don't think Good integration with BB10 will happen (maybe via the new BES, but that's for new deployments, not existing Good MDM shops) - and integration with the Android hub will not happen soon either. Sad times.

[aluiziomachado]

I agree that OS10 was not made for trackpad, simply because the trackpad is a feature that doesnt work great on a big screen with many lines or rows , it was made to cross the screen through just some rows or lines, reaching fast all the corners. Indeed, its much more useful on OS7 devices, but its still usefull on OS10. IMO touch interface is just aesthetic marketing. Its ridiculous to grab the phone with your left hand and use your right index finger to point several times on screen to perform basic operations. Its much more elegant , fast and productive like it was made before, using just the trackpad and hardkeys to perform basic operations (copy, paste, task, check mail, etc..). Classic is an hybrid of an old and a new system, so when you are using it, many times you have to think wich way you are trying to perform (new or old) and many times you get stucked because you dont have all the options (hardkeys or touch) for all apps or menus. It becames a little messy.
Of course there are many positive points (video and picture manipulations, attachments and viewing files, browsing) that overcame OS7 performace. And many negative points (calendar sluggish, abscence of basic spreadsheet editing functions, apps lack).
In the end, we (BB fans) have no option, and we have to get used to it, liking or not. It is a pity we realize that Classic is not a better 9900, but worst than that is the fact that we could probably never see anymore an upgraded trackpad / toolbelt device

[undefinederror]

I agree that OS10 was not made for trackpad, simply because the trackpad is a feature that doesnt work great on a big screen with many lines or rows , it was made to cross the screen through just some rows or lines, reaching fast all the corners. Indeed, its much more useful on OS7 devices, but its still usefull on OS10. IMO touch interface is just aesthetic marketing. Its ridiculous to grab the phone with your left hand and use your right index finger to point several times on screen to perform basic operations. Its much more elegant , fast and productive like it was made before, using just the trackpad and hardkeys to perform basic operations (copy, paste, task, check mail, etc..). Classic is an hybrid of an old and a new system, so when you are using it, many times you have to think wich way you are trying to perform (new or old) and many times you get stuck because you dont have all the options (hardkeys or touch) for all apps or menus. It becames a little messy.
Of course there are many positive points (video and picture manipulations, attachments and viewing files, browsing) that overcame OS7 performace. And many negative points (calendar sluggish, abscence of basic spreadsheet editing functions, apps lack).
In the end, we (BB fans) have no option, and we have to get used to it, liking or not. It is a pity we realize that Classic is not a better 9900, but worst than that is the fact that we could probably never see anymore an upgraded trackpad / toolbelt device

I agree with every single point you say, good sir.

"Its ridiculous to grab the phone with your left hand and use your right index finger to point several times on screen to perform basic operations." is my favorite part.


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[idssteve]

As far as I can tell, BB10's QNX authors were intentionally sequestered from any meaningful contact with BBOS's RIM devs. BB10 was an entirely new OS built by a new company. Only the name stayed the same.

QNX was purchased by RIM and QNX developers were handed a mission that might not have been entirely voluntary. AFAIK, QNX had limited BlackBerry exposure (aka PlayBook) and zero previous smartphone experience, that I can find. It's too obvious that those developers didn't really like, or even understand why anyone would want, things like physical keyboards & toolbelts. IMO.

Building a brand new OS from scratch is a monumental undertaking for tech monsters like Apple and Google. BB10 is an admirable accomplishment. How much better might it have been if RIM's years of GUI experience hadn't been tragically surrendered. ??

[Just Me]

The thing is that BB10 Is a completely new OS and was never designed to use with the trackpad and toolbelt.

As such, things don't make sense, they're not cohesive, and everyone who used OS7 just wishes it was like that.


I maintain that making the classic was a mistake. It's not attracting new customers, it's only pissing off older users.

At the end of the day, this is a new OS. Experiences best on the Q, passport or Z devices.

Try a couple days of the classic without touching the toolbelt, it will make much more sense after.

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You are not entirely correct. My wife loves the classic, she was a die hard BBOS user then begrudgingly upgraded to the Q10 when the Q10 died she went Classic and is overjoyed with the performance.

The Passport is arguably the best BB10 device with it capacitive keyboard. It is missing the Alt key which would clear up a lot of the text editing issues which BBOS perfected. I do agree with the OP that further BBOS styled and streamlined refining for BB10 would be appreciated.

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