[audio_engr]

I am on 2G EDGE and my signal levels were -47 to -49 dBm.

Shifting to WiFi, signal levels reads -58 to -64 dBm.

On 2G, my battery life was just above average. Moving to WiFi, there was a big improvement in my battery life.

I suggest to turn your signal bars meter to the numerical one by applying: Holding ALT, then N, M, L, L

(you can toggle it back to the Bars using the same code)

Check your signals. I'm told ideally it should be around -70 to -75 dBm.

I got hold of my carrier guys & had them adjust their network to provide me approx these figures. Now, with 2G EDGE, I'm doing -70 dBm.

There's a tremendous improvement of battery life.

So - before you go complaining, check your Radio signals 1st. (If required, get hold of your network chaps 'by their ears') - Lol !!

[Katmandoitall]

I turned on wi-fi and set the meter to number readout. I have a wi-fi set up at home. I get 85 and just below it is a -5. What does that mean?

[audio_engr]

I turned on wi-fi and set the meter to number readout. I have a wi-fi set up at home. I get 85 and just below it is a -5. What does that mean?

-85 dBm. excellent reading.

you should be getting a very good battery life if your battery it properly calibrated with the device analyzer.

[Branta]

Read the full thread and learn... don't believe everything you are "told". http://forums.crackberry.com/tips-ho...wer-dbm-26381/

Your original -47dBm signal on EDGE was significantly stronger than your -70dBm signal, by a factor of about x200. What you did was have the network reduce your signal because you don't understand decibels.

Note that for most models (I don't know if it still exists in 99xx) there is a glitch in the chipset reporting signal in 3G mode. The measurement saturates at -70dBm, and it will still display -70 even if the signal is stronger. This doesn't apply for 2G signals which I have seen showing at least as strong as -40dBm.

Finally, learn how GSM level control works, and understand that the signal received and measured by your phone is only loosely linked to battery life. The real factor is the phone's output power which is controlled to a standard reference level when received and measured by the network's base station.

I am on 2G EDGE and my signal levels were -47 to -49 dBm.

Shifting to WiFi, signal levels reads -58 to -64 dBm.

On 2G, my battery life was just above average. Moving to WiFi, there was a big improvement in my battery life.

I suggest to turn your signal bars meter to the numerical one by applying: Holding ALT, then N, M, L, L

(you can toggle it back to the Bars using the same code)

Check your signals. I'm told ideally it should be around -70 to -75 dBm.

I got hold of my carrier guys & had them adjust their network to provide me approx these figures. Now, with 2G EDGE, I'm doing -70 dBm.

There's a tremendous improvement of battery life.

So - before you go complaining, check your Radio signals 1st. (If required, get hold of your network chaps 'by their ears') - Lol !!

[emirozmen]

When on EDGE idle with 5bar coverage (less tan 77 dbm) I can esily get %1
But when i am in 1 bar coverage area (yes, you can call it a deadspot)i drain %16 per hour.

[LordCrankypants]

That's because the phone is searching for a stronger signal when you are at one bar that the battery drains faster. When at five bars, the phone simply sits idle and doesn't need to search for a signal because it's got a strong one already.

That's likely a simplified way of looking at it, but that's the basic premise.

JB

[palomartian]

16%? You have found a defect. I can hang in an area were the signal cycles from one bar to sos to roaming and the battery never drains any faster than in a 5 bar area. You should get that fixed.

[audio_engr]

Sitting with a 9900 in one hand & a calibrated meter with probes for dBm in the other. They both show totally different readings. I would now trust the calibrated Fluke meter and not the BB.

Indeed, -47dBm is a helluva stronger signal than -70dBm but who says stronger always wins ? Its optimizing as per your network and its conditions. I ain't a damn dud that you think dude ...

Thanks for your write-up here ...

22 yrs in specialized highend audio electronics & don't understand decibels ??? - now that's a WoW !!

Good day ... and jus' chill ...

P.S. Just that you're a Mod here doesn't mean you go throwing your weight around ... That's not CB's ideologies, is it ?
You could have been a lot more gentle.

Read the full thread and learn... don't believe everything you are "told". http://forums.crackberry.com/tips-ho...wer-dbm-26381/

Your original -47dBm signal on EDGE was significantly stronger than your -70dBm signal, by a factor of about x200. What you did was have the network reduce your signal because you don't understand decibels.

Note that for most models (I don't know if it still exists in 99xx) there is a glitch in the chipset reporting signal in 3G mode. The measurement saturates at -70dBm, and it will still display -70 even if the signal is stronger. This doesn't apply for 2G signals which I have seen showing at least as strong as -40dBm.

Finally, learn how GSM level control works, and understand that the signal received and measured by your phone is only loosely linked to battery life. The real factor is the phone's output power which is controlled to a standard reference level when received and measured by the network's base station.

[aqw955]

strange that if you turn wifi on.. it actaully got better battery life..

[audio_engr]

Your original -47dBm signal on EDGE was significantly stronger than your -70dBm signal, by a factor of about x200.

Referencing 0 dBm as 1.0 mW :

-50dBm = 10 nW
-70dBm = 100 pW

That's not x200,

that's 1 : 10,000

[mssca]

I agree with OP on this. Yes, if you turn of the radio so that the radio signal chip is not working, you can have your phone on one charge for more than a day.

But then again, what's the point of paying for BIS plan with Internet access?

[Branta]

strange that if you turn wifi on.. it actaully got better battery life..

Not strange at all, but it depends on the relative power levels transmitted by the phone on the two systems. Here's the reason...

A GSM phone can vary its output level from Watts down to milliWatts on command from the cellular network's control system. The aim is to have all mobiles deliver a standard signal level at the tower - this change is usually correlated with the received signal level shown as bars on your screen but it isn't a fixed relationship. The phone's power output is one of the main load changes which govern battery drain on the phone but it really only makes a big impact when the transmitter is working either on a call or passing data.

Consider a location where your cellular radio is running near max power levels and putting a heavy drain on the battery. Now fire up the WiFi on a reasonably close access point, probably running 1-2mW rather than hundreds of mW for the cellular link. All your data traffic gets diverted to a link which uses less power to transmit the same data.

[Branta]

Referencing 0 dBm as 1.0 mW :

-50dBm = 10 nW
-70dBm = 100 pW

That's not x200,

that's 1 : 10,000

100pW = 0.1nW so your numbers still differ by x100 not 10,000. The factor of 2 appears because I used -47dBm and you used -50dBm as the higher level.

[audio_engr]

Yup my error! I agree its exactly 200% as 3dBm diff is factor of 2

[Branta]

Sitting with a 9900 in one hand & a calibrated meter with probes for dBm in the other. They both show totally different readings. I would now trust the calibrated Fluke meter and not the BB.

Indeed, -47dBm is a helluva stronger signal than -70dBm but who says stronger always wins ? Its optimizing as per your network and its conditions. I ain't a damn dud that you think dude ...

Thanks for your write-up here ...

22 yrs in specialized highend audio electronics & don't understand decibels ??? - now that's a WoW !!

Good day ... and jus' chill ...

P.S. Just that you're a Mod here doesn't mean you go throwing your weight around ... That's not CB's ideologies, is it ?
You could have been a lot more gentle.

My submission (lst para of my first in this thread) that received signal is irrelevant to battery life stands unchanged. IAC I think it is more likely your observed change in received signal level (on screen) is an artefact, because it it is highly unlikely the network engineers would reduce power on the base station on your request.

BTW... which model Fluke are you using? My preference for RF work is either Bird or Rhode & Schwartz.

[aqw955]

I sometimes got -101dbm when I turn wifi on..

[audio_engr]

My submission (lst para of my first in this thread) that received signal is irrelevant to battery life stands unchanged. IAC I think it is more likely your observed change in received signal level (on screen) is an artefact, because it it is highly unlikely the network engineers would reduce power on the base station on your request.

I stand to say I totally disagree with you ... You're just talking purely on textbook based theoretical conclusions whilst unknowing what's practically going on.

Further - its baseless to continue any discussion on this as its irrelevant.

BTW... which model Fluke are you using? My preference for RF work is either Bird or Rhode & Schwartz.

I have a Fluke 9640A & an array of other reference equipment from Agilent, Tektronix & Neutrik.

The network team from Vodafone with very sophisticated Ericsson test bench equip & a mobile van did come to my premises, collected data for 150 minutes & also visited the cell site servicing me that's 270 metres away to make changes in multiple parameters.

And FYI, they did turn down the base station to optimise the network system at -64 ~ -69 dBm. And also several other beaming adjustments.

Question is whether does this change make ANY drastic difference to the battery life of 9900 running new hybrid OS 7.1.0.284 ?

Only time will tell ...

[Branta]

Nice equipment. That's the beast we use here to check/calibrate our field measurement devices when necessary.

Sounds like you brought an out-of-specification tower to their attention.

FYI you can find the power control schemes in the GSM/3G technical standards, and it is clear that RF output power from the mobile station is controlled on command from the base station. The first one I found online http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_gts...08v050100p.pdf is a few years old now but almost identical strategies are carried through in the later implementations.

Assuming a fixed output volume (bytes etc) and a reliable link with the same level of dropped packets and retransmit, the variable which has most impact on battery life is the transmit power used by the phone (mobile) as commanded by the base. The receive power measured by the mobile device has no direct impact on battery load although there is an indirect association. It stands to reason that a "distant" phone with high attenuation in the receive path will usually have a similar attenuation on transmitted signals and the base will command a compensating output power increase. Similar effects could also occur as a result of multipath and diffraction nulls in the signal, where relatively small movement of the phone might produce significant level changes.

[Phill_UK]

Question is whether does this change make ANY drastic difference to the battery life of 9900 running new hybrid OS 7.1.0.284 ?

Only time will tell ...

.284 is NOT a hybrid... it's a full OS on the 9900.

[palomartian]

Why you wanna get in the middle of that d*ck bumping contest?

[audio_engr]

.284 is NOT a hybrid... it's a full OS on the 9900.

At the moment, Radio is not accepting "3G" but only "EDGE" when set for 2G&3G.

And when set for 3G, its "sos"

Wonder where's the glitch now ?

[Phill_UK]

At the moment, Radio is not accepting "3G" but only "EDGE" when set for 2G&3G.

And when set for 3G, its "sos"

Wonder where's the glitch now ?

Not sure why that's happening. 3G has been working fine for me.

Call the Voda engineers back and get them to fix your tower

[audio_engr]

Call the Voda engineers back and get them to fix your tower

Recvd an apologetic email from voda that they inadvertently struck-off 3G services from my subscriber # that they're now restoring in 24 hrs ...

[audio_engr]

UPDATE :

The vodafone network now has been fine-tuned & am observing -77 dBm on EGDE & 3G settings on my 9900. On my Fluke 9640A, am getting -73 dBm (and I'll take this as the reference signal level). No flickering but rock-steady signals, sitting on -73 dBm.

Keeping the 9900 on dBm display mode, I traveled various parts of the city & noticed a constant -77 dBm reading (which would reference to -73 dBm on the Fluke). No flickering or drifts from this figure.

What this has done for me is that its improved my battery life by quite a large fold. I've crossed over 24 hrs with the Radio set on 3G & there's still 18% of the battery to go.

well-done - voda !!

[rohit1767]

Would request if we could speak plain english please? Believe, most of the visitors to this forum are not / may be not in the RF / wireless / cellular world to understand & follow the technical jargons being discussed but are people who think of mobile devices as a quick access point for information & a medium of communication. Meaning, it's a pre-requisite that the device enables daily business and not disables it.

As an e.g -> I'm here to find a solution to a problem. The problem being observing the battery drain on a Bold 9900 to be significantly high (cannot pass through a single work day w/o having to recharge) as compared to a previously less complicated curve 8520.

Am looking for solutions in a language that i as a typical end user can understand.