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  1. vx1
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    Default Onyx Processor & Ram

    I am wondering if this 9020 is really going to be the Bold upgrade
    because there are so many models being mentioned. and some of
    them are being changed. This forum is now called 9700

    is 9020 changed to 9700 now?

    any hoo

    what ever the model number - does anyone know
    what the final ram and processor speed be.

    according to http://forums.crackberry.com/f146/bl...9700-a-284988/

    the name has changed to Blackberry Merlin! hehe

    oh boy! :0) I'll go along with that lol
    Last edited by vx1; 08-03-2009 at 07:48 AM.
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  2. pmikhael's Avatar
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    so it's going to be named after a fish! hahaha

    Onyx sounded better
  3. Spawn12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmikhael View Post
    so it's going to be named after a fish! hahaha

    Onyx sounded better
    If it was going to be named after a fish then it would have been named Marlin and not Merlin as Merlin was the name of that wizard.
  4. vx1
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    lol fish hehe
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  5. Ultrafied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmikhael View Post
    so it's going to be named after a fish! hahaha

    Onyx sounded better
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    Some people have tracked it and it is rumored to be 624 mhz like the Bold, however it is a newer processor and not the Intel Xscale but a Marvell Tavor processor.

    It's not a qualcomm processor like the Curve 8900 or Tour.

    As for app memory, sadly, it's only 256 mb.

    So in terms of power/size, it's nearly identical to the Curve 8900, has a trackpad (don't know whether you'll like it or not), same camera, app memory and screen as the curve 8900 or Tour, and possibly same or faster processor than the Bold.
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    If it does ship with only 256mb for app memory then its a deal breaker for me. For the second half of 2009 shipping a "new" device with only 256mb is simply being cheap. It would also affirm what many say that they are merely changing one small thing in the existing formula to make something "new"

    Tour + wifi - 3G = 8900
    Storm - touchscreen + better processor = tour
    8900 + 3G = Onyx

    Still waiting to be impressed.

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  8. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
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    Right now 256 is plenty for a BlackBerry device. I mean seriously, are you trying to load 30+ applications onto it?? Now when the BlackBerry third applications reach the level where each are 5+MB, then I'll agree. But that's not the case and 256 is really plenty.
    But if it's not good enough for you, don't buy it. But the whole "their only changing one small thing". While more has changed than just one thing, you need to keep in mind that this device and others soon to be released are apart of a roadmap. A rodmap that was planned at a minimum of a year ago. Newer things are coming.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucial_Xtreme View Post
    Right now 256 is plenty for a BlackBerry device. I mean seriously, are you trying to load 30+ applications onto it?? Now when the BlackBerry third applications reach the level where each are 5+MB, then I'll agree. But that's not the case and 256 is really plenty.
    But if it's not good enough for you, don't buy it. But the whole "their only changing one small thing". While more has changed than just one thing, you need to keep in mind that this device and others soon to be released are apart of a roadmap. A rodmap that was planned at a minimum of a year ago. Newer things are coming.
    Yes I agree that 256 is plenty at this moment with the size of current apps. When I my 8900, I never dipped under 100 MB's and that was with a lot of apps installed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucial_Xtreme View Post
    Right now 256 is plenty for a BlackBerry device. I mean seriously, are you trying to load 30+ applications onto it?? Now when the BlackBerry third applications reach the level where each are 5+MB, then I'll agree. But that's not the case and 256 is really plenty.
    But if it's not good enough for you, don't buy it. But the whole "their only changing one small thing". While more has changed than just one thing, you need to keep in mind that this device and others soon to be released are apart of a roadmap. A rodmap that was planned at a minimum of a year ago. Newer things are coming.
    I do understand what you're saying, but at the same time, I still don't get it. Clearly you know more about this stuff than I do, which I'm not disputing at all (in fact, I love how you say so much without really saying anything )

    But don't you think that apps and memory go hand in hand? 256 RAM would be more than enough if the apps could be stored in the 1+GB of onboard storage. But storing them in RAM kind of kills it. Currently the apps have small footprints, yes. BUT, RIM is trying to push apps and App World. I don't think its unrealistic for users to have dozens of apps and themes (I feel like I'm on the low end with 10 apps and 1 3rd party theme). Unfortunately, there are usually comparisons to the iPhone, and users can have over a hundred apps, and file sizes are measured in MB and not KB.

    I bet that if the developers had access to more memory, we'd see "better" apps. Now that most of the BlackBerries are shipping with gorgeous, crisp, bright screens, it would be great to have apps that would take advantage of it. For example, let's just take the Bartender Pro app that's currently featured on the Crackberry front page. It looks boring. Functional? I bet it gets the job done. Pretty? Not really. I have a bunch of bartending/mixology apps on my iPhone that display images of the drinks, as well has have a bigger library of drinks. Are the pictures necessary? No, but they look nice. This probably isn't the best example, but its the first thing I thought of. There are a ton of apps I'd love to have, but with the limited memory, I pick and choose more carefully.

    From what I've read around here, it sounds like the reason is that the OS can't handle large amounts of memory. But we wouldn't need large amounts of memory if we could store and run apps from media cards or the built in flash storage. Right now everything is competing for the same memory. The OS, messages, calendar, SMS, address book, call log, etc... and apps.

    Perhaps RIM is getting there, after all the new version of App World can archive apps to flash storage. It's a step in the right direction.

    Thoughts?
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    You have to put things into perspective... Yes from a Blackberry standpoint 256 is enough. I mean, my bold only has 128 and I have to reset it only after 3-4 days...

    The problem here though is that RIM also has to stay competitive in the market. And the truth is, iphone is killing BB when it comes to apps. Some iphone apps are amazing and have reached 100 mb in size. Most BB apps barely break the 1 mb mark.

    3G hasn't been implemented all over the U.S. yet and the ones that have been aren't spectacular (T-mobile having problems_, that doesn't mean we should be content with EDGE only does it?

    The Onyx should at least be 512 mb by now... Not to mention move up from the same camera that the Storm also uses. Perhaps a 4.0 mp camera.

    They cannot just look at their existing users, they have to look at potential future users. And when other phones are reaching 5.0 mp cameras, insane apps etc...
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    CX- I understand what you mean by roadmaps. But there are two facts that are critical to new product design, breaking the existing ceiling by pushing the envelope and that any new device is only as fast / great as the slowest part of its design. Right now, the slowest parts are the UI of the OS (especially with that amazing screen) and limitation on app memory.

    256 may be just "enough" for now, but making that assumption will stagnate growth in development down the line, especially if these things have a lifespan of 2 yrs. Industry leaders don't get by on good enough. They set the trend and push the envelope.

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    @greg: currently the limitation is access to certain parts of the OS, namely the API's. If Devs had access to more, apps would be better. But a BlackBerry isn't an Iphone and isn't all about what and how many apps you can put on the device. You don't see Gov agencies lining up to get Iphones either and for a reason. The ability to store and run from the SD is nice and would be good, but it comprimises security as well. As more BlackBerry's come out, memory will get higher, but until there are big applications, there's no need for 512. You would have to have 50+ applications on a 8900 to use up all it's memory.

    @Madness you speak of what a "new design" should be. Howcome its ok for Apple to change one or two things on a new model version but not RIM. Also, as I said above, the Iphone is for apps and media. Whereas the BlackBerry does some of that, but more. And better. Whether people want to believe it or not, RIM is just breaking thru to the consumer market. The devices that are coming out now have been in planning for years. There are new ones coming that touch on more of what people want.

    @axe: I see what you're saying but in all seriousness, if you had 512 of memory, WTF would you do with most of it?? Nothing. You cannot use all that memory for OS and apps. So the majority of it would go unused. There are things in motion the average person doesn't know about. So try and be patient. Again I point to the 3G S and its lack of new features/functionality. Anyhow, there are things coming that will make the average consumer happy in regards to BlackBerry. Keep in mind that BlackBerry's are designed for the corporate world, and RIM is only just now trying to really hit on consumers. But its coming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucial_Xtreme View Post
    @greg: currently the limitation is access to certain parts of the OS, namely the API's. If Devs had access to more, apps would be better. But a BlackBerry isn't an Iphone and isn't all about what and how many apps you can put on the device. You don't see Gov agencies lining up to get Iphones either and for a reason. The ability to store and run from the SD is nice and would be good, but it comprimises security as well. As more BlackBerry's come out, memory will get higher, but until there are big applications, there's no need for 512. You would have to have 50+ applications on a 8900 to use up all it's memory.

    @Madness you speak of what a "new design" should be. Howcome its ok for Apple to change one or two things on a new model version but not RIM. Also, as I said above, the Iphone is for apps and media. Whereas the BlackBerry does some of that, but more. And better. Whether people want to believe it or not, RIM is just breaking thru to the consumer market. The devices that are coming out now have been in planning for years. There are new ones coming that touch on more of what people want.

    @axe: I see what you're saying but in all seriousness, if you had 512 of memory, WTF would you do with most of it?? Nothing. You cannot use all that memory for OS and apps. So the majority of it would go unused. There are things in motion the average person doesn't know about. So try and be patient. Again I point to the 3G S and its lack of new features/functionality. Anyhow, there are things coming that will make the average consumer happy in regards to BlackBerry. Keep in mind that BlackBerry's are designed for the corporate world, and RIM is only just now trying to really hit on consumers. But its coming.

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    But Crucial... wouldn't bigger apps go hand in hand with increased memory?? the reason you don't see apps like 10-100 mb in size like the iphone is because the memory is really limited and so most people won't download such an intensive app. If people had 512 mb to 1 gb for app memory, I guarantee that apps will go up in size.

    But i fully realize what you are saying... The iphone and Blackberry are still marketed towards different demographics. but i disagree with your assessment on whether Apple really changed anything. The iphone 3G S improved on the 3G in every way the 3G lacked. From the camera, to the processor, to the ram, to the gpu, to software such as VGA recording and voice dialing.

    The Bold only really lacks in two things, camera and app memory but I guess you can say the Onyx or now Merlin improves on those very things. I just hope it's enough.
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    Personally i think 256mb of ram is more than enough at this present time and moment in the BB lifeline. My Bold has 128 mb and its ok but i find im having to reboot my device literally every single night via quickpull...i havent got 50 odd apps, maybe 10 apps max and obviously one of them being a weather app so thats going to cause my memory to slowly go down.

    Honestly im looking forward to the Onyx...i loved the 8900 curve but the fact it lacked 3G was the deal breaker for me sadly or else i would have had that instead of the Bold.

    I'll still keep my Bold...maybe pimp it out as the warranty has expired now on it and use it as a backup device but the Onyx from what im reading is making me salivate at the mouth....just wish RIM would hurry it up and release it
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madness87 View Post
    But Crucial... wouldn't bigger apps go hand in hand with increased memory?? the reason you don't see apps like 10-100 mb in size like the iphone is because the memory is really limited and so most people won't download such an intensive app. If people had 512 mb to 1 gb for app memory, I guarantee that apps will go up in size.

    But i fully realize what you are saying... The iphone and Blackberry are still marketed towards different demographics. but i disagree with your assessment on whether Apple really changed anything. The iphone 3G S improved on the 3G in every way the 3G lacked. From the camera, to the processor, to the ram, to the gpu, to software such as VGA recording and voice dialing.

    The Bold only really lacks in two things, camera and app memory but I guess you can say the Onyx or now Merlin improves on those very things. I just hope it's enough.
    In a sense you're right, but that doesn't matter. So what if they make the applications larger if they still look the same as they do now?? Devs need access to the API's which RIM prohibits and will for a time to come. So having more memory right now is useless. RIM doesn't want to turn over API's because it comprimises security, in which RIM/BlackBerry is known for.

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    I'm not a developer, so I'm just guessing really. But do you need access to some of the APIs to make applications graphically richer? Because that's really one of my only faults with many of the current applications, is that they look kind of boring.

    I know that RIM is known for its security, and I'm glad (I did get some satisfaction over laughing at my friends iPhone for having that SMS vulnerability ) I know it's also more of a business-like device, and they are just getting into the consumer market. But that doesn't stop the general public from comparing it to the iPhone. I think many of us here agree that they are really different devices, but I'm not sure if the average person would know that. I had an iPhone 3G, and even if I could load it up with apps, it just wasn't the phone for me. It was more of a media player that could make phone calls. Apple didn't add any of the features I wanted until 3.0, and at that point it was too little too late.

    as axe50 said, these phones last a while. The original iPhone can do almost all of what the iPhone 3GS can do thanks to the firmware, and run almost all of the apps. Whereas the Curve 8300 I believe was launched in 2007? And from what I gather around here, will be missing out on the 5.0 OS love. I understand a device has to be EOL at some point, and two years does make some sense, but many people will keep a phone longer than that.

    I'm really excited to see what RIM has coming out. I'm most certainly getting the 9700/Onyx/Merlin/whatevertheydecidetocallit. And I'll probably get the phone that replaces that too...regardless of app memory.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spawn12 View Post
    If it was going to be named after a fish then it would have been named Marlin and not Merlin as Merlin was the name of that wizard.
    Hahaha. Aww, I hate when that happens.

    So, 256 is enough memory. More than enough. I cannot wait for all the new things that are coming. However, I am not in a rush. I still love me Bold.
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    Now I am kinda a fence person as: 256MB is a little too small considering the times with cheap memory out there. Its a way to cut cost produce more & maximize profits. Pretty sad if you ask me!
    But @ the same time the capabilities of these phones/business tools aren't being fully used by all, some are getting it for the status quo- i.e. Paris Hilton has one or check it out Michael Phelps carries one too. So I have to have one now & proceed to not even use everything is capable of doing so why should RIM change anything when all the complaints pales in comparison to #'s and the current love fest these phones have @ the moment. So honestly does it matter: Yes & No guess it just depeneds on who you are personally or professionally
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    Default this may be a moot point

    Currently, the App World is allowing users to save their apps to the media card and restore when they need them. Even though it doesn't quite work as well as BB users would like, I expect that it will be tinkered with in the time ahead. With that being said, the available memory won't be much of a factor.
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    Saving them to a media card and running them from there are two separate things. I will say its a move in the right direction, albeit a baby one.

    I understand that "the wheels are turning" and other things come down the pipe, but upping memory seems minor in my opinion. While it may seem useless now, what is coming in say 2yrs may need that extra memory. I wish someone would have thought about that type of growth when they said that 64mb was enough for my old curve - that could have used 128-256 and be regarded not only high-end for its time, but still giving the competition a run today.

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    The fact of the matter remains that in the digital/electronic world products are outdated anywhere from 4-6 months after release. There is always something better coming whether the product itself or the technology said product uses. This is how companies make money. So while it would be nice for a company to make something such as a mobile device, competitive for 2-3 years, in the end it would cost them money and its not the world we live in today.
    I know not everyone upgrades every year or even two years but things always gradually get better and technology gradually gets better which in turn renders older things outdated/behind/obsolete.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucial_Xtreme View Post
    The fact of the matter remains that in the digital/electronic world products are outdated anywhere from 4-6 months after release. There is always something better coming whether the product itself or the technology said product uses. This is how companies make money. So while it would be nice for a company to make something such as a mobile device, competitive for 2-3 years, in the end it would cost them money and its not the world we live in today.
    I know not everyone upgrades every year or even two years but things always gradually get better and technology gradually gets better which in turn renders older things outdated/behind/obsolete.
    I totally agree with this as these companies are in the business for profit not you the consumer. Well they do have the customer in mind partially but to max profits they have to half *** a product at times so that generating enough buzz creates more reason for and update.

    Good example- iPhone ---> App Store for updates ----> iPhone 3G ----> App Store for fixes/bugs ----> iPhone 3Gs

    It's ridiculous as they had the 3Gs software/hardware early last year & ready but had to ceate a buzz or in this case customers wanting more along with MMS support which still doesn't work properly. So ya RIM is doing the same thing but don't fault them totally as I am happier with a malfunctioning Storm or an BB 9700 with less on board Memory then with an iPhone that after 3+ yrs still doesn't work the way it should & gets blasted by all critics for it's horrible ability as a PHONE and or PHONE Calls.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucial_Xtreme View Post
    The fact of the matter remains that in the digital/electronic world products are outdated anywhere from 4-6 months after release. There is always something better coming whether the product itself or the technology said product uses. This is how companies make money. So while it would be nice for a company to make something such as a mobile device, competitive for 2-3 years, in the end it would cost them money and its not the world we live in today.
    I know not everyone upgrades every year or even two years but things always gradually get better and technology gradually gets better which in turn renders older things outdated/behind/obsolete.
    In theory perhaps, but until a month ago Sprint was still selling 8830, and Sprint just released the "NEW" vomit orange Curve. (Isn't Curve 2 yrs old now?) So while RIM may like to consider a device outdated in 6 months, frankly it matters more of what consumers and retailers think. Seeing as how Curve is currently the #1 selling phone in America, perhaps some more forward thinking on RIM's part wouldn't be a bad thing. (Note: Sprint is selling the ugly orange Curve retail for MORE than the new Tour retail. Repeat, the Curve costs MORE than the Tour, retail. )
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    With 256 for memory, you can have 48 BlackBerry applications installed to your device. And you will still have at least 90MB+ left of free application space. I believe that shows that 256 is plenty of space until Developers start making larger apps.
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