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  1. blue_k's Avatar
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    #26  

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    You don't have to upgrade if you see the Z10 as a downgrade. Stick with your 9900 for a while longer and see if BB fixes some of the issues you have with the Z10. I'm sure we will see many things added back in maintenance updates.
    In RIM we trust!
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  2. trsbbs's Avatar
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    #27  

    Default Z10 a downgrade from 9900 ?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by greatwiseone View Post
    Divorcing themselves from BIS was necessary for RIM to expand on their consumer offerings. BB needs to do something about the developing nations, but frankly with LTE speeds and Gb data plans, it makes no sense to have BIS anymore. I'm not sure who came up with "It's not push email anymore" type non-sense. RIM's done an ActiveSync implementation, but it still pushes emails to your device, just not the way they did it before. The OLD way of getting emails, while data efficient, placed a HUGE risk on RIM/BB because if something goes wrong, they'll have a giant outage like they did in 2011. A system designed for 2G networks shouldn't be used when the whole world's moved on.
    Not correct. They gave up on getting QNX to work with BIS. Simple. They wanted it to work. They played with for over a year before giving up.

    BGR reported this from an inside source and everybody jumped and screamed. "not true".
    But it was. "QNX is a failure. Will not work with BB backend".
    Remember?
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  3. MikeLip's Avatar
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    #28  

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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwiseone View Post
    Divorcing themselves from BIS was necessary for RIM to expand on their consumer offerings. BB needs to do something about the developing nations, but frankly with LTE speeds and Gb data plans, it makes no sense to have BIS anymore. I'm not sure who came up with "It's not push email anymore" type non-sense. RIM's done an ActiveSync implementation, but it still pushes emails to your device, just not the way they did it before. The OLD way of getting emails, while data efficient, placed a HUGE risk on RIM/BB because if something goes wrong, they'll have a giant outage like they did in 2011. A system designed for 2G networks shouldn't be used when the whole world's moved on.
    Actually, in the present world of data caps and tiered data plans, it sure does matter. I used a fraction of the data on my Blackberries that I do on my S3. And push email - well, isn't top-flight communications what BB was all about? Fetch email is acceptable if you set the fetch intervals short, but push beats it hollow.

    I'm not going to hammer BB, since I am very definitely getting one as soon as it's available (assuming it works on the VZW network). But yeah, they have abandoned some things that gave them a real one-up. I think if they weren't in financial trouble the outages wouldn't have happened. I have a vision of their data center staffed by first year computer science interns, working for pizza.
  4. jem9777's Avatar
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    #29  

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    I'm in the opposite camp. Thank goodness BIS is gone. I'm sick of my coworkers getting emails (Exchange) via ActiveSync 10 minutes before my BlackBerry phone on BIS / OWA polls for them and delivers them to me. I'm ready to have all of my email accounts perfectly in sync on my phone, tablet and computer, so I don't have to delete emails once on my computer, and again later on my BlackBerry when I realize it's still there. I'm sick of flaky Gmail two-way sync that takes hours. I'm sick of having to plug my phone in to my computer to sync contacts and calendar with Outlook, and cannot wait to have instant two-way over-the-air sync for all my accounts. I'm sick of having to accept meeting invitations once on my BlackBerry and again on my computer just so they'll show up properly on both calendars. I'm sick of the bug in OS 7 (that's been present since my Storm2 on OS 5) that tries to delete 1000 of my calendar entries from my phone when I sync via Desktop Manager. I'm sick of sending pictures via BBM, or uploading them to Facebook and Twitter and having them look like grainy garbage to others because they were compressed by the network.

    There may be a subset of users for whom the current BIS works exactly how they want it to, but for the other 90% (as evidenced by iOS/Android/WP market share) of us, BlackBerry 10 is going to be a huge step in the right direction.
    AtoZBlog likes this.
  5. kbz1960's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougielas View Post
    No BIS is a huge road block for me as that is the only way to connect to my work email (OWA).
    BIS does not connect you to work email. It's just like an isp.
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  6. spencerdl's Avatar
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    #31  

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    After reading numerous threads on BB10, Z10, and Q10......maybe just maybe a March release date for USA is a GOOOOD thing. I understand the concept of "the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few", but do you take away for what makes a Blackberry a BLACKBERRY.
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  7. b320's Avatar
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    #32  

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    Without commenting *either way* on items 3, I can positively say that items 4 through 7 (4, 5, 6 and 7) *ARE* available / supported on the BlackBerry 10 platform already in their BlackBerry 10 equivalent variations.
  8. thorstenpleasefixit's Avatar
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    #33  

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    [QUOTE=Xiaclo;7910347]

    1. No BIS
    Sure, it makes things slower. It also encrypts, compresses and makes data usage by type untrackable (hence so many "unlimited" BIS plans). I would happily trade speed for unlimited data, and in Australia, it's the only unlimited data option (which also extends to my playbook, love it).

    I agree

    2. No push email
    IMAP-IDLE is not push. And as far as I can tell, neither is active sync. IMAP-IDLE (and I believe active sync) keeps a connection open which gives the illusion of push, but actually just kills battery life. The only way to do true push is to have your carrier track your phone and pass messages (hence device PINs).

    It didn't occur to me re: impact on battery life. In fairness my Gmail accounts are syncing well (for new messages in the Inbox - they just appear pretty much instantly) but if this is hurting battery life then that's not so great

    3. No customized notifications
    As of yet (and I'm hoping BeBuzz or similar fixes this soon), there is no way to change the LED colour by message type, or customize sound notifications. Also in this category is bedside mode. Disabling all notifications isn't an option for many of us, we need a loud ring profile for certain calls or messages, but don't want to be woken needlessly.

    #1 issue for me and I suspect most BB power users who make the switch - I'm told an update in 45-60 days?

    4. App permission customization
    Basic app permissions are there, waiting on confirmation on detailed permissions similar to BB7.
    I have no idea, I don't have a Z10 yet. If someone can confirm or deny this point, please let me know. This is one of the major reasons I still use a BlackBerry. I am overly paranoid when it comes to cloud services in general. I can customize exactly what any app can access, right down to the URLs if I really care to. Android tells you what an app will use, if you don't like it, don't install it, and iOS doesn't even bother.

    this seems good - so far all Apps I've tried to install have required my permission for EVERYTHING - it's why I didn't install some of the more suspicious apps from Blackberry World. I mean, why does a battery monitor need access to my PIN and address book LOL!!

    5. Multiple message selection
    The latest touchscreen phones (9800 and 9900 at least) got it right. You can use two-finger selection to selection multiple messages. Either by touching the first and last email at the same time, or touching one email with two fingers and scrolling to the last one. Somehow this was removed in favour of the PlayBook way of selection multiple messages which involves a context menu and selection emails one by one. I can select 10+ messages in a fraction of the time on my 9900 that it takes me on my PlayBook, surely they picked the wrong experience.

    agreed - this seems to be a step back. I've got the hang of it now but still slower than I'd like

    6. Magnet detection
    Edit: I misread someone else's post, only the holster profiles have been removed it seems, locking and unlocking should still work.
    Apparently the holster detection has been removed. So one of the best features of BlackBerries that has been around for ages is now gone. The ability to unholster and automatically have the phone unlocked and the last message opened, or a call answered was amazing. Not to mention when it was holstered, you never had to worry about buttons being pressed or anything else, the phone was locked regardless of what happened to it. Profiles while holstered I didn't use too much, because it was always holstered for me, but I'm sure some people used it and are sad to see that removed as well.


    unaffected as not a holster user

    7. Word substution
    I used this a lot to expand acronyms into full words, apparently it no longer exists.

    I think this still works?


    Overall, it just seems like BlackBerry is so focused on getting more market share that they are willing to remove features that alienate their current users. These were things that no one else had, and kept me on an outdated device which I quite viciously defended for the above reasons (as well as the physical keyboard, but that's a non-issue). It's great that we're getting some apps we've been trying to get for ages, the OS in general looks great, the browser looks fast and generally amazing, but I think they're forgetting what set them apart from the competition for the last few years. There are reasons people stayed, and if they start getting rid of them, people will be going to Android and iOS (or WP8 or Sailfish or Ubuntu phone).

    my feeling is this. Had they ported EVERYTHING that's "BB" about OS7 and used that as a starting base, they pretty much would have got 80,000,000 loyal BB users upgrading. On top of that, then they should have fixed stuff like the camera and browser to get even more users. Currently, I think a lot of loyal users are going to be frustrated, and a lot of new users are going to be a little "meh" at the camera/app choices. It's a strange tactic by Thorsten that's for sure.
    ==========================================
    - Avid fan of BB 9700 and 9850 - the 5mp camera addition made life so much easier (even though it was fairly crap!). Waited a long time for a Q10, including being 5 months past my 'upgrade' date from the carrier - lost my nerve and got the Z10 1st Feb 2013. Probably switching back to a 9900 while I wait for OS fixes/upgrades. Proud Londoner (that's in the UK, guys!)
    http://www.thorstenfixplease.co.uk/
    ==========================================
    phylez likes this.
  9. Graheem's Avatar
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    #34  

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    Crazy! If the BB doesn't have customized profiles, why wouldn't I just go to a stupid iPhone. Man. Guess I'll find out tomorrow as my pre-reg Z10 is supposed to be in my hands then.
    Motorola Analog ??? > Nokia 3220 > Nokia 6xxx > BB 7290 > BB 87xx > BB Curve 83xx OS4.5> BB Curve2 85xx OS5 > BB Bold 9700 OS6 > BB Bold 9900 OS7.1, Playbook 16GB OS 2.1, BB Z10; & occasionally, iPhones, Androids, & Windows Phones
  10. gq_stylz_s's Avatar
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    #35  

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    Word substitution is still present. I think it'll be less of a necessitous because of Z10 keyboard's on screen prediction..
  11. parabola's Avatar
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    #36  

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    Quote Originally Posted by thorstenpleasefixit View Post

    my feeling is this. Had they ported EVERYTHING that's "BB" about OS7 and used that as a starting base, they pretty much would have got 80,000,000 loyal BB users upgrading. On top of that, then they should have fixed stuff like the camera and browser to get even more users. Currently, I think a lot of loyal users are going to be frustrated, and a lot of new users are going to be a little "meh" at the camera/app choices. It's a strange tactic by Thorsten that's for sure.
    I think they just made the decision to spend the time/resources on things that get them the biggest impact for all users. There are all these things that BB power users have come to love, but the vast majority of users just don't care about -- so they get bumped down the priority list. I get it. I just hope they come along eventually (and not too far down the road). These are things that make BB different to other platforms -- *to me* and to many of us. Most others are happy with a nifty phone with BBM.

    I've helped many friends and family members set up their BBs over the years. Very few customize their notifications beyond changing their ringtones; none of them care about push email -- it shows up fast enough and it's still quicker than manually checking it online; data compression -- as if they understand or care!

    If BlackBerry -- the company -- only cared about servicing the hard core users as a priority, then we'd first be getting the Q10 and all of our power features ... at the expense of other new features. They would get slammed for basically delivering the same old thing and would have a hard time coming back from that.
    Thunderbuck likes this.
  12. southlander's Avatar
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    #37  

    Default Z10 a downgrade from 9900 ?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by TomJasper View Post
    Search function at Crackberry.com works very well.
    Not really. But google does.

    Sent from my BlackBerry Torch 9850 using Tapatalk
  13. GTiLeo's Avatar
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    #38  

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    wow there are so many misconceptions told liek they are facts. BIS is still a part of BB10 and there is push e mail. all push e mail is, is a sub server pulling your e mail from your e mail provider and having that server push the mail to your phone. tehre are apps for that on iPhone and android, GMail does it for Android devices, i'm sure BIS does it for BB10 mine it does for legacy devices. if you still don't believe BIS is in BB10 look at the review pics and look at the BIS icon beside the battery meter, tehre are just Tiered BIS levels and we do not need to have BIS to have BB10 work with data plans
  14. TheScionicMan's Avatar
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    #39  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xiaclo View Post
    5. Multiple message selection
    The latest touchscreen phones (9800 and 9900 at least) got it right. You can use two-finger selection to selection multiple messages. Either by touching the first and last email at the same time, or touching one email with two fingers and scrolling to the last one. Somehow this was removed in favour of the PlayBook way of selection multiple messages which involves a context menu and selection emails one by one. I can select 10+ messages in a fraction of the time on my 9900 that it takes me on my PlayBook, surely they picked the wrong experience.
    Once you swipe down and tap the "Select" option, you can use two fingers to select a group just like in BBOS. No need to only select one at a time.
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  15. Whitecaps's Avatar
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    #40  

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    Z10 is a different beast altogether... Q10 might be a downgrade from 9900 though, due to the lack of trackpad... can't imagine performing copy&paste on such a small screen
  16. PlaybookFanatic's Avatar
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    #41  

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    It's not a real downgrade. Just play with it for the first time and then say that.

    Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10
    Feeding my addiction since o9..., now it's 2013 and I'm still here!
  17. Xiaclo's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #42  

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTiLeo View Post
    wow there are so many misconceptions told liek they are facts. BIS is still a part of BB10 and there is push e mail. all push e mail is, is a sub server pulling your e mail from your e mail provider and having that server push the mail to your phone. tehre are apps for that on iPhone and android, GMail does it for Android devices, i'm sure BIS does it for BB10 mine it does for legacy devices. if you still don't believe BIS is in BB10 look at the review pics and look at the BIS icon beside the battery meter, tehre are just Tiered BIS levels and we do not need to have BIS to have BB10 work with data plans
    This is the misconception. As I have said, if the network has no way to contact the phone, it MUST be using a pull method. BIS gets around this by having a layer at the carrier that can contact the phone. ActiveSync, IMAP-IDLE and friends fake this by keeping an open data connection but it has to hurt battery life.



    Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10
  18. Xiaclo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaybookFanatic View Post
    It's not a real downgrade. Just play with it for the first time and then say that.

    Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10
    I'll agree there, I am still loving my Z10, and this was written before I received it. However, my points still stand, and in some ways, it is moving backwards from a 9900.

    Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10
  19. Xiaclo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b320 View Post
    Without commenting *either way* on items 3, I can positively say that items 4 through 7 (4, 5, 6 and 7) *ARE* available / supported on the BlackBerry 10 platform already in their BlackBerry 10 equivalent variations.
    4. They are better than the competition, but still lacking compared to OS6/7.

    5. I'm not saying this doesn't exist, I'm saying it was done more poorly than it is on OS6/7 touch devices.

    6. I misread the post I was quoting and have updated the main post, but custom holster profiles still don't exist.

    7. I have since found auto replace and have removed this point, sorry.

    Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10
  20. Xiaclo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheScionicMan View Post
    Once you swipe down and tap the "Select" option, you can use two fingers to select a group just like in BBOS. No need to only select one at a time.
    I can't get this to work, can you give more detail?

    I am using press and hold, select more, then tapping each message. Is there another way?

    Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10
  21. Thunderbuck's Avatar

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    #46  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xiaclo View Post
    I'll agree there, I am still loving my Z10, and this was written before I received it. However, my points still stand, and in some ways, it is moving backwards from a 9900.

    Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10
    "Backwards" is stretching it. BB10 implements certain features differently.

    IMAP-IDLE's lag over BIS-push is theoretical at best. I'm seeing emails appear seconds after they're sent. The actual compression is theoretical as well, because there were a LOT of files that didn't even pass through BIS (video, for instance). To consider it "unlimited" data is a huge stretch. As well, having to maintain BB-specific plans was a pain for carriers. Note as well that one of the biggest things BIS did was segment e-mails, which a lot of users HATED.

    As has been posted by others, holstering, word substitution, and multiple selection are all still there. The implementation of these things might be improved on, but yes, they are there.

    The lack of notification profiles is significant, yes. There are many users who have come to depend on those, and I agree that it's important to address it. BB has (so far as I know) not given a timeline on getting this taken care of. There's hope that there will be a .1 upgrade by the time of the US launches, so it may be here soon. Or it may not.

    I've said it elsewhere, I'll say it here: it doesn't always pay to be an early adopter. If a new device doesn't do what you need it to do, just don't adopt it.





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  22. gtreg's Avatar
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    #47  

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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwiseone View Post
    Divorcing themselves from BIS was necessary for RIM to expand on their consumer offerings. BB needs to do something about the developing nations, but frankly with LTE speeds and Gb data plans, it makes no sense to have BIS anymore. I'm not sure who came up with "It's not push email anymore" type non-sense. RIM's done an ActiveSync implementation, but it still pushes emails to your device, just not the way they did it before. The OLD way of getting emails, while data efficient, placed a HUGE risk on RIM/BB because if something goes wrong, they'll have a giant outage like they did in 2011. A system designed for 2G networks shouldn't be used when the whole world's moved on.
    Strongly disagree, think of situations when you're roaming outside of your country and paying 10 times the regular data rate (or if you're on Rogers like me, more like 15-20 times the regular price). Then the efficiency of the data matter a lot
  23. pandapurple's Avatar
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    #48  

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    Why does anyone bother to write a whole bunch of misinformation when he or she doesn't even own a Z10 at the point of writing? And based on another discussion thread? Seriously?

    Posted via CB10
    Buy the Z10 because you choose to. Enough reason in itself.
  24. conkybubs's Avatar
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    #49  

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    It may seem like backwards to a certain portion of BlackBerry faithful, but those unique features that may have kept you with BlackBerry obviously were not enough to keep BlackBerry from bleeding massive market share. Something had to change in a big way...with a totally new os, they couldn't integrate everything we loved before right away, they had to get the foundation built nice and strong first. I'm sure most of those other features we used to have will come back over time as they can move their focus to enhancing BB10 now rather than just getting it to market with as few bugs as possible.

    Didn't read the whole thread so sorry if I repeated anyone!

    Posted via CB10 on my Z10!
  25. EastMcCauley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conkybubs View Post
    It may seem like backwards to a certain portion of BlackBerry faithful, but those unique features that may have kept you with BlackBerry obviously were not enough to keep BlackBerry from bleeding massive market share. Something had to change in a big way...with a totally new os, they couldn't integrate everything we loved before right away, they had to get the foundation built nice and strong first. I'm sure most of those other features we used to have will come back over time as they can move their focus to enhancing BB10 now rather than just getting it to market with as few bugs as possible.

    Didn't read the whole thread so sorry if I repeated anyone!

    Posted via CB10 on my Z10!
    Agree completely. The Z10 is heads and shoulders superior to my old BB from the point of view of user experience.

    Had the Z10 not come along I would have switched to a more user friendly device.


    Posted via CB10 on BlackBerry Z10
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