1. heyjohnnybravo's Avatar
    I, personally, don't see the point. Before anyone gets all heated, this isn't a troll article. I'm looking for some solid insight.

    With keyboards and the original customer base of the company (the fraction of the smartphone users still using a legacy device) being the focus of this Chenpire, the touchscreen based OS really has a questionable future, IMO.

    The back gesture is rendered effectively redundant with the return of the dedicated back key.

    Swipe for a menu? Why? Press the BB button.

    Swipe up? Useless. Press the end call key.

    Redo the tool belt? And risk alienating your customer base that's afraid of change? Not a chance. I understand it's been proven efficient and effective so why bother fixing what isn't broken?

    I personally think the use of the Classic to ease people into the BB10 system really won't work. They'll expect one thing, be surprised, expect the exact same thing they had before, be frustrated, and leave once they get the chance. The people still holding out for a phone with a trackpad et al. are likely not going to enjoy BB10 since it's not the same as what they had before. It's completely new and absolutely fantastic. But it's new. New is scary. Learning 'new' is especially scary for some.

    All the effort made in designing an OS for a full touchscreen device seems like a waste of R&D at this point. The consumer market will likely completely slip away once the Classic launches and BBRY likely isn't going to be too concerned.

    Why not piece together the good parts of BB10 and reboot the legacy OS? It just seems like they're trying to remodel a brand new, touchscreen OS for a keyboard device based on hardware that was likely not at all considered during development.

    Am I the only one that has a bad feeling with this toolbelt revival?

    Posted from my TARDIS!
    dejanh and Shadowyugi like this.
    04-23-14 09:08 PM
  2. NinerJet9's Avatar
    Because there are still people on this earth that don't want to worry about an OS that is so vulnerable to being hacked. That's why!

    http://news.yahoo.com/apple-slammed-...lkA1ZJUDM0N18x

    Posted via CB10
    CerveloJohn likes this.
    04-23-14 09:19 PM
  3. ricocan's Avatar
    because it is awesome! I didn't reach beyond the header because whatever followed was undefended able.

    Posted via CB10
    04-23-14 09:21 PM
  4. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    The 9900 had a touchscreen too.
    I, personally, don't see the point. Before anyone gets all heated, this isn't a troll article. I'm looking for some solid insight.

    With keyboards and the original customer base of the company (the fraction of the smartphone users still using a legacy device) being the focus of this Chenpire, the touchscreen based OS really has a questionable future, IMO.

    The back gesture is rendered effectively redundant with the return of the dedicated back key.

    Swipe for a menu? Why? Press the BB button.

    Swipe up? Useless. Press the end call key.

    Redo the tool belt? And risk alienating your customer base that's afraid of change? Not a chance. I understand it's been proven efficient and effective so why bother fixing what isn't broken?

    I personally think the use of the Classic to ease people into the BB10 system really won't work. They'll expect one thing, be surprised, expect the exact same thing they had before, be frustrated, and leave once they get the chance. The people still holding out for a phone with a trackpad et al. are likely not going to enjoy BB10 since it's not the same as what they had before. It's completely new and absolutely fantastic. But it's new. New is scary. Learning 'new' is especially scary for some.

    All the effort made in designing an OS for a full touchscreen device seems like a waste of R&D at this point. The consumer market will likely completely slip away once the Classic launches and BBRY likely isn't going to be too concerned.

    Why not piece together the good parts of BB10 and reboot the legacy OS? It just seems like they're trying to remodel a brand new, touchscreen OS for a keyboard device based on hardware that was likely not at all considered during development.

    Am I the only one that has a bad feeling with this toolbelt revival?

    Posted from my TARDIS!
    04-23-14 09:53 PM
  5. mjdimer's Avatar
    It really still is early days. Seriously, they have to invest in better frontline staff training, and better marketing. I walked into a phone shop yesterday and asked about a Z30, and the rep said I'd have to pay the extra $10 / month for bis. They have just been given nothing.

    I understand why they don't market the phone now, but they should be marketing the brand anyway, as it's mind share value is rubbish right now.

    Posted via CB10
    04-23-14 09:54 PM
  6. tufcustomer's Avatar
    I wouldn't bring back the entire tool belt. I'd have a touch sensitive track pad, think Origami Browser, and at most the phone on off. I'm not to keen on the tool belt returning myself but if it sells, BlackBerry could use it.

    Posted via CB10
    04-23-14 09:58 PM
  7. trinipoco's Avatar
    I don't reminisce on the days of spinning hour glass, snails pace browser and battery pulls. I'm quite happy with new os.

    Posted via CB10
    04-23-14 10:24 PM
  8. early2bed's Avatar
    The problem with the keyboard and the trackpad is the real estate that is taken up on the phone. If your platform is going to somehow survive on selling only 10 million phones per year then they really need to have the same screen aspect ratios. You can't have half of your phones with square screens and the other half of your phones with rectangular ones. It makes everything that developers do twice as hard.

    What do you think all those coveted Android apps are going to look like on a 1:1 screen if the Android developers who designed the UI never considered a square screen? If you fragment your already small platform like that then you're going to have to expect a lot of clunky problems with the UI like buttons that are off of the screen or screens that are shrunken down and impossible to read.
    04-23-14 10:34 PM
  9. app_Developer's Avatar
    They can bring forward all the features that people loved about the BB7 phones, and introduce those to BB10, without going back to the totally obsolete underlying foundation of BB7.

    I'm hoping the Classic can be the best of both platforms. I understand that more people buy BB7 phones every single day than BB10 phones. That doesn't make BB7 a viable platform for the future.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    dejanh likes this.
    04-23-14 10:39 PM
  10. early2bed's Avatar
    They can bring forward all the features that people loved about the BB7 phones, and introduce those to BB10, without going back to the totally obsolete underlying foundation of BB7.
    The problem is that you can't just bring features along to a new platform. Every feature has to be rebuilt. Every software project like this is constrained of resources. The wish list is a mile long and most features aren't going to make the cut, especially, if you are laying off your talent and downsizing your development. The exact same thing happened to Palm when they switched to webOS. People complained about all of their favorite features that were added to Palm OS over more than a decade that never made it to webOS when it counted when it was launched into iPhone and Android.
    04-23-14 10:43 PM
  11. vgorous's Avatar
    I think with the "classic" releasing later this year is going to be a big big flop. They have to be careful on how they tweak the OS for that phone. I'm thinking that if you are in the home screen, the trackpad and home button will render useless. The "toolbelt" will only be active when reading or composing messages. But as far as navigating through the OS, the toolbelt won't be responsive.

    Posted via CB10
    Shadowyugi likes this.
    04-23-14 11:39 PM
  12. dejanh's Avatar
    I, personally, don't see the point. Before anyone gets all heated, this isn't a troll article. I'm looking for some solid insight.

    With keyboards and the original customer base of the company (the fraction of the smartphone users still using a legacy device) being the focus of this Chenpire, the touchscreen based OS really has a questionable future, IMO.

    The back gesture is rendered effectively redundant with the return of the dedicated back key.

    Swipe for a menu? Why? Press the BB button.

    Swipe up? Useless. Press the end call key.

    Redo the tool belt? And risk alienating your customer base that's afraid of change? Not a chance. I understand it's been proven efficient and effective so why bother fixing what isn't broken?

    I personally think the use of the Classic to ease people into the BB10 system really won't work. They'll expect one thing, be surprised, expect the exact same thing they had before, be frustrated, and leave once they get the chance. The people still holding out for a phone with a trackpad et al. are likely not going to enjoy BB10 since it's not the same as what they had before. It's completely new and absolutely fantastic. But it's new. New is scary. Learning 'new' is especially scary for some.

    All the effort made in designing an OS for a full touchscreen device seems like a waste of R&D at this point. The consumer market will likely completely slip away once the Classic launches and BBRY likely isn't going to be too concerned.

    Why not piece together the good parts of BB10 and reboot the legacy OS? It just seems like they're trying to remodel a brand new, touchscreen OS for a keyboard device based on hardware that was likely not at all considered during development.

    Am I the only one that has a bad feeling with this toolbelt revival?

    Posted from my TARDIS!
    No, you are not the only one. The launch of a keyboard device with function keys gives me plenty of worry. It seems contrary to the entire philosophy of BlackBerry 10, and it seems like a completely unnecessary throwback to a legacy design and functionality that will do nothing to help the company. It may bring over a handful of users, but that will be it, just a handful. The same users will, as you state, complain about the experience of BlackBerry 10 and likely abandon the platform at the first opportunity. In the meantime, the legacy of BlackBerry 10 will be perceived as a failure that implies that a gesture based UI does not work. Of course, Apple will in the meantime release their own twist on gesture based OS and that will seal BlackBerry's fate. Gesture based OS is here to stay, but it is very likely that BlackBerry won't be behind it.

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    Shadowyugi likes this.
    04-24-14 12:07 AM
  13. heyjohnnybravo's Avatar
    I don't reminisce on the days of spinning hour glass, snails pace browser and battery pulls. I'm quite happy with new os.

    Posted via CB10
    Exactly. BBOS showed it's aging core years ago. Combining the fluidity, reliability, and speed of BB10 with the comfort of BBOS is going to be difficult - very difficult. That's what the Classic (I presume) is going to attempt to do. It's dangerous and likely to fail due to the complete difference between the two OS.

    The problem is that you can't just bring features along to a new platform. Every feature has to be rebuilt. Every software project like this is constrained of resources. The wish list is a mile long and most features aren't going to make the cut, especially, if you are laying off your talent and downsizing your development. The exact same thing happened to Palm when they switched to webOS. People complained about all of their favorite features that were added to Palm OS over more than a decade that never made it to webOS when it counted when it was launched into iPhone and Android.
    All the time that it'll take to port everything over is time I'm afraid they may not have

    Posted from my TARDIS!
    Shadowyugi likes this.
    04-24-14 12:28 AM
  14. Bishkin's Avatar
    Blackberry should just put BB10 on ice since it is not going anywhere now. Get the Classic out and return to BB10 afterwards if there is still a need for it.
    04-24-14 01:08 AM
  15. xBURK's Avatar
    Do you ever wonder why so many pick on BlackBerry whom happen to believe the company has been dead for years?
    It's because they know the potential of BB10 and consider BlackBerry a threat in the future.
    If BlackBerry was not a threat, you'd hear nothing.

    BB10 will evolve and BlackBerry will be on top again. So young with so much potential. The truth is coming out and the tide is turning for this company. You can't hide brilliance forever.

    Powered by BlackBerry 10
    04-24-14 01:17 AM
  16. xBURK's Avatar
    Blackberry should just put BB10 on ice since it is not going anywhere now. Get the Classic out and return to BB10 afterwards if there is still a need for it.
    If Apple did the same as you suggest in the beginning, they'd had never done so well. It takes time and persistence to grow at times.

    Powered by BlackBerry 10
    04-24-14 01:22 AM
  17. thurask's Avatar
    No, you are not the only one. The launch of a keyboard device with function keys gives me plenty of worry. It seems contrary to the entire philosophy of BlackBerry 10, and it seems like a completely unnecessary throwback to a legacy design and functionality that will do nothing to help the company. It may bring over a handful of users, but that will be it, just a handful. The same users will, as you state, complain about the experience of BlackBerry 10 and likely abandon the platform at the first opportunity. In the meantime, the legacy of BlackBerry 10 will be perceived as a failure that implies that a gesture based UI does not work. Of course, Apple will in the meantime release their own twist on gesture based OS and that will seal BlackBerry's fate. Gesture based OS is here to stay, but it is very likely that BlackBerry won't be behind it.

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    My thoughts exactly. Once the handful of trackpad diehards buy the Classic, then what? You have a phone that says "We don't know what we're doing" and a resounding "BlackBerry stuck in the past? Business as usual..." from the general public. Not good for more than a few.

    Posted via CB10
    04-24-14 01:57 AM
  18. Bishkin's Avatar
    The fear would be that the Classic becomes such a success that BB no longer see the need for gesture based devices. The Classic therefore must not succeed.
    04-24-14 03:04 AM
  19. heyjohnnybravo's Avatar
    The fear would be that the Classic becomes such a success that BB no longer see the need for gesture based devices. The Classic therefore must not succeed.
    Or it can succeed beyond measure and BBRY can innovate some seriously beautiful hardware around the remodeled version of BB10 catered to the Classic.

    Posted from my TARDIS!
    04-24-14 03:50 AM
  20. Ed Gar's Avatar
    The fulltouch and beltless failed already. So they are looking now for the batman's belt to save the day.

    Posted via CB10
    04-24-14 04:02 AM
  21. dejanh's Avatar
    The fulltouch and beltless failed already. So they are looking now for the batman's belt to save the day.

    Posted via CB10
    This could not be further from the truth. BlackBerry's success is proportional to their efforts to sell BlackBerry 10 devices.

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    Shadowyugi and CerveloJohn like this.
    04-24-14 06:19 AM
  22. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    I've seen dozens of this kind of thread come and go on CB. What none of them acknowledge is that the majority of BlackBerry users are corporate liable devices. For any corporation that uses a BES and assigns phones a pivot to upgrade to BES 10 is going to be a significant undertaking and possibly take years. No large organisation is going to take a big chunk of their IT infrastructure out of the LCMM established schedule lightly.

    With this in mind I think their current strategy is exactly what they should have done. Cut the BB10 teeth on a pure consumer oriented device. Would have been nice if it was a better commercial success, but it was always a risk. There was a time when a consumer BlackBerry was an oxymoron. Bring out the touch / keyboard version as the OS improves. Then as BES 10 adoption starts to take hold, capturing MDM of the devices their former customers went to, bring out the comfort food device. This will make the transition from BB 7 to 10 easier for the majority of BlackBerry customers who have to use what they're given and aren't the typical tech geek likely to haunt CB.

    This strategy could fail, but IMHO it has a better chance than ignoring those who are sticking with BB 7.

    Posted via CB10
    04-24-14 09:21 AM
  23. ubizmo's Avatar
    The back gesture is rendered effectively redundant with the return of the dedicated back key.
    What back gesture?

    Swipe for a menu? Why? Press the BB button.
    If you prefer to swipe, then swipe.

    Swipe up? Useless. Press the end call key.
    If swipe up isn't useless now, it doesn't suddenly become useless by the addition of an alternative.

    I personally think the use of the Classic to ease people into the BB10 system really won't work. They'll expect one thing, be surprised, expect the exact same thing they had before, be frustrated, and leave once they get the chance. The people still holding out for a phone with a trackpad et al. are likely not going to enjoy BB10 since it's not the same as what they had before. It's completely new and absolutely fantastic. But it's new. New is scary. Learning 'new' is especially scary for some.
    You've made the case for the Classic. We know that large numbers of legacy BB users have not adopted BB10 devices. We also know that hardly anybody else has either. The question is, what should BlackBerry's stance toward the first group be? They can write them off as stuck in the past or they can try to bring them on board. They've chosen the second option. I don't know what the outcome will be but I don't think failure is a foregone conclusion.

    All the effort made in designing an OS for a full touchscreen device seems like a waste of R&D at this point. The consumer market will likely completely slip away once the Classic launches and BBRY likely isn't going to be too concerned.
    There's more to BB10 than a touchscreen interface. It's a completely different internal architecture, capable of doing much more than what BBOS could do. Moreover, the consumer market has already slipped away. The Classic is an attempt to retain a user base that hasn't yet slipped away.

    Am I the only one that has a bad feeling with this toolbelt revival?
    No, a lot of people have misgivings about it.
    waterfrontmgmt likes this.
    04-24-14 10:47 AM
  24. joeldf's Avatar
    But, do you ignore those of us who did embrace the full-touch OS?

    I, for one, don't want a physical keyboard. I like my Z10 and don't want any other kind of phone. Other than a better spec'd and slightly larger screened Z10-styled BB that I hope will come someday (I don't like the look of the Z30 at all).

    I don't want an iPhone because of my own personal feelings towards their corporate philosophy. I don't want a full android phone because of my own irrational fears of being required to have a Gmail account just to activate such a phone (don't ask - there's a reason it's called "irrational").

    Posted via CB10
    Shadowyugi and johnnyhead like this.
    04-24-14 11:50 AM
  25. Jeandry Brito's Avatar
    But, do you ignore those of us who did embrace the full-touch OS?

    I, for one, don't want a physical keyboard. I like my Z10 and don't want any other kind of phone. Other than a better spec'd and slightly larger screened Z10-styled BB that I hope will come someday (I don't like the look of the Z30 at all).

    I don't want an iPhone because of my own personal feelings towards their corporate philosophy. I don't want a full android phone because of my own irrational fears of being required to have a Gmail account just to activate such a phone (don't ask - there's a reason it's called "irrational").

    Posted via CB10
    I have the same reason to stay, but I wanted a nice spec'd Z10 and not a Z30. I don't want neither iOS nor Android devices but my phone (Z10) is getting old and I need a new one but Z30 his time is running out too ( with that I mean that it's half a year old, there is new phone with nice features and spec and BlackBerry Is just behind in every feature right now.. don't get me wrong, I love BlackBerry and is looking my BlackBerry z10 right now.. but with this move..its disappointing. Smh. Hope to see a light of the next full touch screen flag ship BlackBerry device

    CB 10 APP
    Shadowyugi likes this.
    04-24-14 12:44 PM
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