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  1. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    Default Where are the BB10 handsets being manufactured?

    Ethical consumption is a big deal for me, and I have declined to purchase electronics products if they've been manufactured in Foxconn-style "death factories." My big question is -- where are the BB10 devices being built? Hopefully they're being built by well-paid staff who are receiving health care and retirement benefits.
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  2. LazyEvul's Avatar
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    Final assembly of current BlackBerry's takes place in Mexico, or Taiwan in the case of my PlayBook. It's likely that BB10 will use one of the same factories, otherwise we'd have probably heard of them making a deal with a new factory by now. Having said that, it's much harder to trace the origins of each individual part inside the phone. I've heard countries such as Malaysia and Taiwan being thrown around when discussing the manufacturer of the internals, but I don't know anything for sure.
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    BB10 production to start in Taiwan in December

    This is the only thing that i have seen on the matter.
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    Default AW: Where are the BB10 handsets being manufactured?

    Dev Alphas are from Canada and some bb7 phone are from hungary

    "Hast du auch ein Smartphone?" - "Nee, das ist alter Mist. Ich hab BlackBerry10"
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    Weren't the Playbooks manufactured in the factories of Qanta - the same factories that made the Kindle? I think Apple use them too.

    I think they have sweat, um, factories in Mexico, Hungary and Taiwan. And I can nearly guarantee none of the factory workers would be getting retirement benefits or health care.
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  6. Tim-ANC's Avatar
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    Default Where are the BB10 handsets being manufactured?

    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    Ethical consumption is a big deal for me, and I have declined to purchase electronics products if they've been manufactured in Foxconn-style "death factories." My big question is -- where are the BB10 devices being built? Hopefully they're being built by well-paid staff who are receiving health care and retirement benefits.


    Just electronics? Where are your clothes made?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinnugent View Post
    Weren't the Playbooks manufactured in the factories of Qanta - the same factories that made the Kindle? I think Apple use them too.

    I think they have sweat, um, factories in Mexico, Hungary and Taiwan. And I can nearly guarantee none of the factory workers would be getting retirement benefits or health care.
    There clearly not jumping to their death either!
  8. lactose's Avatar
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    Just electronics? Where are your clothes made?
    You make a good point. It is next to impossible to avoid giving money to some evil enterprise. But kudos to the OP. When you look at the developmental stages we go thru mentally, studies like Spiral Dynamics suggest that a large number of people do not even have the capacity for empathy, or the ability to have concern beyond themselves / their tribe / for someone they don't personally know. That explains so much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinnugent View Post
    I think they have sweat, um, factories in Mexico, Hungary and Taiwan. And I can nearly guarantee none of the factory workers would be getting retirement benefits or health care.
    In Hungary?? Sweat factories? That's not the Hungary I'm familiar with!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banco View Post
    In Hungary?? Sweat factories? That's not the Hungary I'm familiar with!
    People like to make broad, sweeping statements about things they are not familiar with. Its quite common actually
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    Default Where are the BB10 handsets being manufactured?

    kudos to OP. Finally someone out there pay attention to that. I know we can't 100% avoid sweat shop labour, but we can do our best to prevent it. I'm proud to say BlackBerry is 1 of the most ethical phone makers in the world.
    search the cb forum "how ethical is your smartphone" and you'll get the link of the ethical smartphone chart.

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  12. Tim-ANC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by center77 View Post
    You make a good point. It is next to impossible to avoid giving money to some evil enterprise. But kudos to the OP. When you look at the developmental stages we go thru mentally, studies like Spiral Dynamics suggest that a large number of people do not even have the capacity for empathy, or the ability to have concern beyond themselves / their tribe / for someone they don't personally know. That explains so much.
    Chicken or the egg? If consumerism wasn't obsessively demanding the lowest price for the latest thing, then the evil enterprises wouldn't exist. Not saying its right. Just the way it is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim-ANC View Post
    Just electronics? Where are your clothes made?
    Good point! Bangladesh makes many casual cotton clothes,the list goes on.
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  14. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    Obviously, ethical clothing and other products are important too, and I make a best effort in those situations as well (while realizing that my ability to consume responsibly isn't perfect).

    Of course, if someone is wearing a sweatshop shirt, that's not exactly a valid reason to say "ah HA! My unethical phone is completely justified, now!" In fact, I'd argue it's far LESS justified, since electronics products are typically high-margin items versus socks or underwear, and afford more margin for ethical compensation and fair benefits.

    If RIM is manufacturing in Taiwan, Mexico and Hungary, it's likely that employees are receiving good pay, benefits and health care. All three are first-world countries with modern benefit systems (and often, union representation).
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    i would assume foxconn would be the same then by your reasoning...
    ~Matt
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  16. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    ....since electronics products are typically high-margin items versus socks or underwear, and afford more margin for ethical compensation and fair benefits.
    Wanna bet? Average cost of cotton t-shirt made in China: $1.60. Price at Gap: $16.00. Price of tactel underwear in China: $1.20. Price of same Calvin Klein underwear: $28.00 Textiles traditionally have the highest gross profit margins in commodity goods aside from accessories.
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    For some actual data i looked this up on the greenpeace site


    http://www.greenpeace.org/internatio...ronics/RIM.pdf
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  18. timmy t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim-ANC View Post
    Chicken or the egg? If consumerism wasn't obsessively demanding the lowest price for the latest thing, then the evil enterprises wouldn't exist. Not saying its right. Just the way it is.
    It ain't the consumer, it is Apple who is trying to squeeze as much profit out of a high priced phone as possible. Or do you consider Apple products to be price sensitive?
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmy t View Post
    It ain't the consumer, it is Apple who is trying to squeeze as much profit out of a high priced phone as possible. Or do you consider Apple products to be price sensitive?
    Nothing to do with Apple specifically...this is just the way of the world.

    We as people generally don't like paying more than we have to, and businesses out there want to make as much money as possible. The only way a business can meet that consumer expectation and also make money is to lower their own costs. There are of course luxury brands out there that can charge more because people are willing to pay a premium for them.
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  20. djdragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    Ethical consumption is a big deal for me, and I have declined to purchase electronics products if they've been manufactured in Foxconn-style "death factories."
    I think this is pretty spot on.

    Last edited by djdragon; 01-05-2013 at 11:13 PM.
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  21. Tim-ANC's Avatar
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    Default Where are the BB10 handsets being manufactured?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roo Zilla View Post
    Wanna bet? Average cost of cotton t-shirt made in China: $1.60. Price at Gap: $16.00. Price of tactel underwear in China: $1.20. Price of same Calvin Klein underwear: $28.00 Textiles traditionally have the highest gross profit margins in commodity goods aside from accessories.


    Yep that's right. Textiles are the biggest offenders. The first sweat shops came about in England during the industrial revolution and they were textile plants. Course before that, there was slavery and indentured servitude.
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  22. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim-ANC View Post
    Chicken or the egg? If consumerism wasn't obsessively demanding the lowest price for the latest thing, then the evil enterprises wouldn't exist. Not saying its right. Just the way it is.
    Yeah, but that strikes me as a variant of 19th century arguments that claimed that the prices of cotton, tobacco and wagons would skyrocket if slavery is outlawed. I might not be powerful enough to stop all unethical treatment of people, but I can make a conscious decision not to allow it in my personal life.
  23. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roo Zilla View Post
    Wanna bet? Average cost of cotton t-shirt made in China: $1.60. Price at Gap: $16.00. Price of tactel underwear in China: $1.20. Price of same Calvin Klein underwear: $28.00 Textiles traditionally have the highest gross profit margins in commodity goods aside from accessories.
    That's high-end brand-name stuff, though you make a good point. I was talking more about my supah-sexy Hanes and Target-store-brand clothing.

    Frankly, apart from American Apparel (where I buy a lot of stuff), I don't know where to purchase ethical clothing.

    As for the Apple stuff, I live in San Francisco, and was caught up in the epicenter of a lot of the "Occupy" movement stuff, thanks to my apartment's location.

    One of the themes was "more jobs for working people, and better pay! Bring work back to North America!"

    I had a bit of a field day asking the activists if they'd give up their iPhones and MacBooks -- both made in lousy conditions in China -- to buy an ethical phone like a Mexican-made BlackBerry Bold or a union-built US-manufactured PC or tablet from UnionBuiltPC.com.

    One guy looked at me all wide-eyed and said "no, and besides, Apple is progressive in other areas. I'm never giving up my Apple products, I believe in Apple's vision."

    So I lambasted him. "You won't change your brand of unethical computer or cell phone to fit your own beliefs, yet you're protesting demanding that other people do much more difficult things, like stop driving to work and pay 40% higher taxes?!?" The reaction was priceless.
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    Going back to the original point of the thread, I think that ethical manufacture of devices is possible, however the price to the consumer would be significantly higher. If consumers (in mass) wanted more ethically made products, then there would be a demand for them, as proven by actual purchases not just verbal "demand" as we see often in blogs, articles, and forums. If a product won't sell because of it's price, then the manufacturer needs to reduce the cost of production or lose sales. Interestingly enough, in a recent article the iPhone scored in the middle of the pack for ethical manufacture (see this link: ReadWrite – How Evil Is Your Smartphone?), but is usually one of the most expensive phones to acquire. If ethical manufacture is a proxy for low cost, then there are phones out there that cost more to manufacture and are selling for less Obviously Apple recognizes that people are willing to pay a premium for a phone that doesn't cost as much to make (again using the ethical proxy). Now, some people might call that gouging. It's nice to see that RIM fared near the top of this report while Samsung, the key Android maker was among the lowest; again iphone was in the middle. I would suggest reading the article to ensure you get the proper perspective on it.

    If we, the large and general public, are willing to pay for it, they will make it. However if it is only a handful that want it, it won't happen as there will not be enough demand to make it faintly feasible. Businesses are not charities and they cannot afford to set up a second product line that has no hope of being profitable, regardless of the selling price.

    So to answer the original concern, Blackberries are probably the best of a bad lot (no phone manufacturer scored really well). If you want to make your voice heard, get one and then spread the word as to why YOU chose a Blackberry; make people aware of the concern. If it is a viable concern (and I think it is) a groundswell of support could grow to make ethical manufacture a key issue. BUT, do expect to pay more for your ethics.
  25. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    I use HTC today, and chose it because it's made in Taiwan by union-member people who make good pay. The 8X cost no more than the Lumia 920, which has similar features but is built in China.
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