[msps]

Online the DA A had 1GB of memory, the others have 2.

Straight from Thorsten's Heins mouth?


here's alpha B spec:

[Richard Buckley]

I stand corrected on the DA B specs.

[Gearheadaddy]

Just so you know, and btw keep yer $50, but my stock Vista SP2 HP Quad m9340f- 6GB ram, with it's new 60GB Vertex 3 ssd boots up in about 50 seconds to a searchable Firefox page.

[jaylysf]

The reason is simple I think: other OS's are basically (I hope this makes sense) systems that can run multiple processes at one time, but one process can crash the whole system causing the whole system to reboot. BB10 on the other hand, runs each app or program as it's own "system" on top of the OS. So if that app crashes, the whole stays intact, which is why it is used in the medical field, in space exploration etc...you can't have the whole system restarting during a heart transplant. Not saying my phone doesn't act up once in awhile but the 10.1 version seems to be much better. Give them time to refine the OS, it's been only 5 months. You'll see that at some point there's no reason to add more RAM or processing powers.

Posted via CB10

[mikeo007]

The reason is simple I think: other OS's are basically (I hope this makes sense) systems that can run multiple processes at one time, but one process can crash the whole system causing the whole system to reboot. BB10 on the other hand, runs each app or program as it's own "system" on top of the OS. So if that app crashes, the whole stays intact, which is why it is used in the medical field, in space exploration etc...you can't have the whole system restarting during a heart transplant. Not saying my phone doesn't act up once in awhile but the 10.1 version seems to be much better. Give them time to refine the OS, it's been only 5 months. You'll see that at some point there's no reason to add more RAM or processing powers.

Posted via CB10

This doesn't really happen on any modern device. I can't remember the last time I crashed an entire OS. Even when doing things I know will cause problems on a jailbroken iPad, the worst I've ever had happen due to a crash is a re-spring. Although I get what you're saying, and it's related to the QNX microkernel. The general idea is that having everything as a separate "server" (their word, not mine) will allow the system to recover in case of a catastrophe. This works well in theory will small, integrated solutions.

This unfortunately is not true with BB10. There are just too many and too complicated layers on top of the kernel in QNX. While an app or driver crash may not bring down everything (the kernel stays running), the phone is essentially useless and needs to be rebooted in order to re-instate functionality. So there's no real difference there when compared to anything else.

[southlander]

Those desktop specs minimums you mentioned are basically to load the OS. Anyone that works with PCs knows you spec a machine according to the applications you intend to use, NOT the OS. For example in your cases the machines would be ok for basic web browsing (though slow really on heavy content sites) and email would be ok. But try to load any really big applications like Corel Draw or PhotoShop and you'll start disk swapping. The machine will be quite a chore to use.

[johnnyuk]

This doesn't really happen on any modern device. I can't remember the last time I crashed an entire OS.

When was the last time you used BBOS?
That's one reason why BBOS can't be classed as a modern OS for modern devices, one badly behaving task can crash that whole OS.

As for BB10 and it's comparatively large RAM requirements compared to its mobile contemporaries ironically it really comes down to BlackBerry approaching the design in a 'Desktop' OS way with regard to task management and RAM management.

However the mistake that has been made with BB10 is making it a fully multitasking OS where everything running is held in RAM at the same time, like a Desktop OS, but WITHOUT having some kind of virtual memory management so that when the system is low on RAM tasks don't just die right before your eyes. Instead they just run more slowly swapping in and out of virtual RAM using 1 or 2GB of the device's storage space, but they still run.

The worst thing about that is they first made that mistake in 2010 with the design of the Tablet OS for the PlayBook and then REPEATED the mistake in BB10.

That's why BB10 needs 2GB of RAM as a minimum, it's to paper over the fact that everything goes wrong when the device is low on free RAM. There is no contingency for when your BB10 phone doesn't have enough RAM left, or enough RAM in the first place, to juggles all its balls (tasks) at the same time.

This problem scuppered BB10 for PlayBook with its 1GB of RAM. It wasn't short sighted at the time it was designed to fit it with 1GB if RAM, at the time that was considered a lot for a tablet. It was short sighted to design an Operating System that would gobble all that up at an alarming rate as you multitasked with no thought given to how more RAM could be made available to the system when it needs it through having virtual memory.

When the PlayBook was first released it was reported that it was easy to swallow up that 1GB to the point where nothing new would load until you close something else. And yet 1GB was a lot at the time. The writing should have been on the wall that there was something wrong with the OS design. Either ditch the "real multitaking" idea and come up with a compromise or add virtual RAM.

I'll be interested to see how multitasking works in iOS7, if it really has multitasking this time. If they've somehow come up with a hybrid of their current system of storing an app's state when you switch out of it rather than have it hog RAM when you're not using it AND true multitaking then Apple could have found the ideal middle ground for mobile devices. Or it could be total pants, let's see how they've done it!

Posted via CB10

[mikeo007]

I'll be interested to see how multitasking works in iOS7, if it really has multitasking this time. If they've somehow come up with a hybrid of their current system of storing an app's state when you switch out of it rather than have it hog RAM when you're not using it AND true multitaking then Apple could have found the ideal middle ground for mobile devices. Or it could be total pants, let's see how they've done it!

Posted via CB10

This is already how iOS backgrounding (multitasking is a poor word to describe this) works. App states are only "saved" at the point where it makes sense to do so. If an app still needs to do processing after being minimized, it is given the resources to do so, but is restricted in the total resources that it can use.

Their hybrid approach is arguably the best method for background processing on a mobile platform when you consider the need for power management and limited resources (swapping, etc) without sacrificing flexibility. They've provided APIs that cover 95% of use cases, with the new APIs covering even more (including several use cases that aren't covered by other platforms like BB10 and android.)

[johnnyuk]

Thanks mikeo007. If only BlackBerry had been a little bit more iOS influenced in the task and resource management side of things for BB10 then we might now be enjoying BB10 on our PlayBooks.

Amusingly if BlackBerry were to implement a more efficient task and resource management system in a future version of their OS, say in BlackBerry 11, then it would have more chance of being able to run on the PlayBook than BB10!!!

Posted via CB10

[playbook_swiper1]

First of all you are comparing apples with oranges, processors are different, a desktop processor is a bit more powerful and handles more instructions.
Second: try to run windows on a desktop with that specs, it will barely run itself, let alone apps and multitasking done decent.

Sent from the Dark Side

Incorrect. Running windows with those specs is just fine. It is other programs that are installed which will have their own requirements. E.g. Games. So do the same, core OS - Requirements for Apps. Easy peasy. so some apps won't work due to hardware limitations, this would be acceptable.

[masque2]

I disagree that this behavior is a major flaw, but would argue that this is what results in using a RTOS.

The OS is operating under certain constraints, and instead of taking on another request and slowing the whole system down (the virtual memory approach), a task request is simply refused.

On the PlayBook, an app would just not load, whereas on BlackBerry 10, the oldest running app is killed instead.

I agree that there are big pros and cons to this approach, but one of the pro arguments is that the system remains lag-free and should operate at a high level of consistency.

The price you pay is that you have to live with denied application requests.

Posted via CB10

[WhiteSpir1t]

I mean, let's get real.

BlackBerry 10, no matter how you spin it, is a mobile OS. It runs Angry Birds and BBM, but how much memory do you suppose such apps would take? Okay, yes, it runs Asphalt 7 at 1280x720, but that's besides the point.

The point is, for a mobile device OS, BlackBerry 10 seem to be a bit... much... in taking in resources.

For comparison, Windows XP (a desktop OS which wasn't supposed to be limited in screen size and scalable thanks to the plug and play nature of PC components) requires only:
300 MHz CPU
128MB RAM

Windows 7 32-bit:
1GHz CPU
1GB RAM (this is PlayBook level specs right here)

Those are desktop OSs that we expect to run multiple applications at any given moment. BIG applications, such as Adobe products and the likes. The 3rd party programs require stronger specs, but the point is, the base OS themselves do not require that much resources.

So, why would BlackBerry 10, a mobile OS, need to consume THAT much resources? I'm really baffled here. I personally haven't seen computationally intensive apps aside from games for BlackBerry 10

STL 100-1 10.1.0.273

In one of my posts "What do you want to see in 10.2", it was counted that the iPhone had 25 processs vs blackberry 10's 212 processes running in the background.


Sent from my Motorola Startac