[ZEDTROSPEKTIV]

What's voting going to do if you used rational and logic you would know that this matter is out of blackberries hand

Posted on CB10 via ZEDTRO10

[MarsupilamiX]

What do you guys think of this? Wouldn't it be so much more efficient if Blackberry pushed the OS updates independently, instead of having carriers doing the job?

Update:In favor of blackberry vs carriers, 98.15% vs 1.85% out of approx. 162 people.

I love this thread

Posted via CB10

[Raestloz]

I want to ask something:
What is the carrier phase of updates for?

I mean, it's not like each carrier tweaks the OS to have some kind of exclusive feature or something.

Posted via CrackBerry 10

[Saiga]

I want to ask something:
What is the carrier phase of updates for?

I mean, it's not like each carrier tweaks the OS to have some kind of exclusive feature or something.

Posted via CrackBerry 10

That isn't always the case. For example, Android comes with a free tethering option built in. The carriers can't detect it, So a lot of carriers simply remove the option altogether. Even on the so-called "Pure" Android phones like the Galaxy Nexus.

Verizon also makes it to where all of their Android phones have that god awful wifi nag pop up. That shows when you try to use your data with wifi off in an area that has wifi.

With, BlackBerry 10, we've discovered that if you can edit the APN is determined by the carrier. Some carriers allow it, others don't. The one's that do allow it are the ones that don't need the APN changed any way. Lol


But yes, carriers don't do tweaks to add good features, they do make changes though. And therotically, those changes could need to be made each time a OS update comes out. I imagine the more popular BlackBerry 10 becomes, the more changes carriers will want to be made. Just like with the early days of Android when there wasn't as much carrier bloat and modifications.



Typed on my Dev Alpha C, Posted Via CB10

[Skeevecr]

I want to ask something:
What is the carrier phase of updates for?

I mean, it's not like each carrier tweaks the OS to have some kind of exclusive feature or something.

The carrier phase of updates is where they ensure that the device does not interact in unexpected or potentially disruptive ways on their network.

[Skeevecr]

One thing that nobody has yet managed to confirm or prove in this thread is that apple do actually release their updates without carrier approvals, for all anyone in here knows, they could simply hold back updates until the slowest carriers like vzw and at&t are ready and then push out the update and the only real difference in the way that blackberry does it would be that they do not hold back releases to the less slack carriers just for the sake of the slowest few.

[Stewartj1]

On than radio stack, definitely direct.

Posted from my Z10 using the CB10 app

[Bonnie Bonzai]

What do you guys think of this? Wouldn't it be so much more efficient if Blackberry pushed the OS updates independently, instead of having carriers doing the job?

Yes, I would much prefer this way of receiving updates.

[Raestloz]

What I'm confused about is, leaked OS (which there is only one version of) seem to work just fine across multiple carriers. This means the core radio code isn't too much a problem. This has always been the case even since BlackBerry Device Software 5.0, I can load the OS from Middle East carrier with my Indonesian carrier, even when said OS is newer than the latest OS supported by my carrier

Posted via CrackBerry 10

[Skeevecr]

What I'm confused about is, leaked OS (which there is only one version of) seem to work just fine across multiple carriers. This means the core radio code isn't too much a problem. This has always been the case even since BlackBerry Device Software 5.0, I can load the OS from Middle East carrier with my Indonesian carrier, even when said OS is newer than the latest OS supported by my carrier

In general that is going to be fairly true because the devices still have to adhere to things like the 3gpp specs, the issue is when an infrastructure vendor used on one network has interpreted the specs slightly different in one area than another so while something could work fine an nsn network it could fall over on a huawei network or vice versa.

[jon4400]

Someone should ask this question to BlackBerry during the BB live event.

Posted via CB10

[smoothrunnings]

What do you guys think of this? Wouldn't it be so much more efficient if Blackberry pushed the OS updates independently, instead of having carriers doing the job?

Update:In favor of blackberry vs carriers,97.96% vs 2.04% out of approx. 192 people.

They can't provide directly due to the contract agreements they have made the carriers. I did speak with BlackBerry at the Interop Expo last week about this same issue; I used the excuse of someone buying a device in another country were it's not being sold and unlocking it and then not having access to a SIM of a carrier that provides the latest update. They agree it's a problems and its something they obviously have thought about but their hands are tied for now.

[ngocphamm]

I always wish if I can update the OS from BlackBerry right away. I'm frustrated of having to wait for the update to appears on my carrier! Many bugs and I need them to be fixed asap, not waiting.

[schmeat]

It should be both. You can choose to get it before your carrier pushes it but you waive the right to get support if something goes wrong.

Posted via CB10

[sayf777]

What i heard was that the radio files may be modified by the carriers. I would prefer it to come from the carriers and BB, BlackBerry can release a univeral official one for the different models and when the carriers have gone through modifications it can show up as an update. That way if there are any problems with dropped calls, bad signal thus bad battery life the carrier update will be there. Win - win i think, the end user can be happy in most cases if the radio files are working well and getting it as soon as Blackberry deem it usable and if there's a problem the user can downgrade. Even if there isnt a problem we can still download the carrier modified os after for the potentially greater battery life since the radio files will be made to be more suited for the specific carrier.

Posted via CB10

Sorry he/she beat me to it, was busy typing.

[soulskinner]

I would like to have direct updates. My carrier has no BlackBerry ... :-(

Posted via CB10

[bigopti]

Today I found out this:

With the leaked 10.1 firmware I CAN'T get into Language and Input when my simcard is in the phone,
but when I take it out and restart the phone without the simcard I CAN get to it and change stuff.

A perfect example of how the simcard should not be able to influence the core OS.
What on earth does radiofiles and stuff have to do with keyboard settings.

[Omnitech]

While I think it would be great in many ways if Blackberry had more control over firmware updates, here is why I don't think it's likely to happen any time soon.

First I am going to start with one of the OP's comments, which I happen to think is false:

There is absolutely no good reason why carriers need to touch the software...

This is not remotely realistic as the carriers' reputation relies heavily on the quality of service they provide which is intimately interrelated to the devices that their customers use on their network, how well those devices perform and how reliable they are. OF COURSE the carriers are going to have reasons to customize software builds, either for performance/reliability reasons, or to tweak functionality according to their business-model and marketing objectives. Until such time that cellular devices are not primarily sold through carrier retail channels, and until cellular devices do not rely on cellular networks to function (inherent paradox), I don't see that situation changing drastically for most device-makers, unless a particular device-maker is so dominant that their market-power allows them to set the terms. (This will likely happen soon in the case of Samsung.)

Second, I will post references to the comments that I think are relevant and/or accurate:

The carrier phase of updates is where they ensure that the device does not interact in unexpected or potentially disruptive ways on their network.

I think that apple got lucky when they first struck their exclusive deal with AT&T... they asked for it and they got it. Then it just snowballed cause everyone wanted to carry the iphone.

Apple was the most valuable company in the world at one point. They were, and still are, much bigger than BlackBerry ever was in 2008. Don't forget that in 2008 not as many people had smartphones. RIM's domination of the smartphone market was 100% (figurative) of 20% of the population (figurative). Today smartphone adoption is way higher than 20%.

When Apple announced the Iphone, people and carriers were so excited, as there was no phone like this in the market. The touch screen was revolutionary, and all carriers wanted a piece of that Apple.
Apple has a very smart marketing strategy, they sign a exclusivity with carriers, in return, they set the sales bar VERY HIGH, so carriers had no choice but to push Apple devices. In case you didn't know, one of Apple's condition to interested carriers, is to sell X amount of devices per year. Unfortunately, Blackberry is not at the same place as Apple, they cannot demand anything, and they need the carriers way more that the carriers need Blackberry...

The iPhone may have been new, but iPods were not. They were already a huge hit, so it wasn't risky for Apple to go for a power play: Do it our way or we'll take our business elsewhere. That simply isn't an option for BlackBerry. They just don't have the leverage. BB10 is very cool but the truth is most people don't know much, if anything, about it, and there are plenty of other cool smartphones out there. Any carrier can afford to say no to BlackBerry without fear of missing out on something big.

That could change in a few years, but the contracts with the carriers are written now, and their lawyers are smart enough to lock in the provisions they want.

In addition to the above, here are some other distinctions between the most well-known smartphone vendor that controls distribution of their firmware updates, and Blackberry:

1. Apple has a large network of global retail locations where they perform direct-to-customer sales and support. Blackberry has none of this. ALL sales of Blackberries to end-users are handled by either carriers or independent retailers.
2. Apple has a very large global direct-to-customer retail support organization. Blackberry has a small team of support reps who primarily take referred calls from carriers when they can't answer a customer's questions.
3. Apple allegedly has their own in-house RF testing laboratory, making it easier for them to validate RF performance using various types of networks, before releasing devices or software updates. When it comes to firmware updates, this could significantly reduce the carrier's concern that some unexpected RF issue cropped-up in a new firmware update, as Apple probably has a standard RF test suite that they provide the results from when releasing new/updated devices/firmware to carriers.

[trsbbs]

The carrier phase of updates is where they ensure that the device does not interact in unexpected or potentially disruptive ways on their network.

Correct!!!

Carriers MUST make sure the phone, which is a radio, works within the spectrum assigned etc etc per their FCC license.
They will not allow,,,I say again, they will not allow a radio (cell phone) on their system until they are sure it works within the FCC specs.

No amount of polls etc will change this.

Now BB can send out an OS updates as long as it does not affect the radio portion of the code. That would be cool with the FCC.

Tim

[Ali Fardos]

Yes!!

Posted via CB10

[yyzkevin]

sorry in advance for the wall of text. I voted BlackBerry, however I don't think it is that simple.

There are two obvious issues I could see the carriers interesting themselves with,

A. Network Support. Surely the carriers need some control over what they allow on their network and what will in fact work properly on their network. For example, maybe some code in an update from blackberry results in an increase of dropped calls due to some kind of channel selection specific to a particular carrier, or unreliable caller id information, or any other number of possible issues... which may have been identified during that Quality Assurance period before it was released.

B. Customer Support. At the end of the day, everyone is paying their carrier for service, and a portion turn to said carrier for support on using the device. I am not going to comment on the quality of that support as I have never used it, however I would expect that with each official release the carrier staff have received some training or have access to some kind of release notes to answer any questions to address any changes in how you use the phone on their network... very basic example would be how to program your "call voicemail" function.

Maybe there is an additional option, where you can opt to run a version directly from blackberry, however in doing so, if it is not on the carriers list of supported versions, the carrier will not be responsible for support or service performance. Even if you divide support and performance, whereby BlackBerry is solely responsible for customer service of the device functionality, the issue of network performance is left unanswered.

I am not sure how this is handled with Apple as I don't care enough to investigate, but I recall there being issues in the past where the carrier was blaming an IOS version for poor signal/call performance... which may or may not have been true, but it just shows the issue that can come up when there are problems and the handset manufacturer and the carrier would be pointing at each other while you continue to pay your bill and receive sub-par service.