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  1. Thunderbuck's Avatar

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    #26  

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    Quote Originally Posted by CATufts View Post
    You have a terrific way of explaining things so even a simple rookie like me can totally understand. I always look forward to your posts. Thank you.
    No, thank YOU. That made my day
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  2. darkehawke's Avatar
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    #27  

    Default (Very New To Blackberry) Question: What features differentiate BB10 and iOS?

    Quote Originally Posted by CATufts View Post
    You have a terrific way of explaining things so even a simple rookie like me can totally understand. I always look forward to your posts. Thank you.
    allow me to second that

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    #28  

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    No sign of the OP, did we overwhelm him with the BlackBerry differentiation, I believe we did.
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    #29  

    Default Re: (Very New To Blackberry) Question: What features differentiate BB10 and iOS?

    Quote Originally Posted by amjass12 View Post
    i wouldnt say it looks like ios.. at all..
    I'd say it looks closer to iOS than any other platform since they both have a significant presence of skeuomorphic/materialistic elements in their design language. I'd say the biggest differentiator would be navigation of the OS as BB10 has a larger emphasis on gestures. Then there's invocation, multitasking, etc.
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    #30  

    Default Re: (Very New To Blackberry) Question: What features differentiate BB10 and iOS?

    [QUOTE=Thunderbuck;7830291They're crowded markets and there's getting to be less and less incentive for devs to stay in (particularly with Android--what version do you even target anymore?).[/quote]
    You say thst as if the development community is stagnant. Look up Android Design in Action if you haven't already. It's amazing. It teaches developers how to take the most advantage of the Holo UI to make beautiful and functional apps and how to make them work across previous Android versions (ie. target the latest OS and either use system defaults for certain elements or the robust library of simple backporting tools). I think it'd do RIM good to have a design community like this. It keeps devs engaged and shows what the platform is truly capable of.
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  6. aha
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    #31  

    Default Re: (Very New To Blackberry) Question: What features differentiate BB10 and iOS?

    Quote Originally Posted by jdhooghe View Post
    I'm a mobile phone enthusiast and came on the scene after Blackberry's reign. I've been following BB10 and specifically the Z10(Gorgeous device) but I left iOS because it was boring and I want to know what BB10 offers that iOS does not? Just from looking at videos and photos, the OS looks a lot like iOS. Anyway, thank you for giving a newbie some info
    iOS is old, BB10 is new.
    iOS is everywhere, BB10 sets you different.
    iOS is mundane, BB10 is an advanture.
  7. aha
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    #32  

    Default Re: (Very New To Blackberry) Question: What features differentiate BB10 and iOS?

    Quote Originally Posted by jdhooghe View Post
    I'm a mobile phone enthusiast and came on the scene after Blackberry's reign. I've been following BB10 and specifically the Z10(Gorgeous device) but I left iOS because it was boring and I want to know what BB10 offers that iOS does not? Just from looking at videos and photos, the OS looks a lot like iOS. Anyway, thank you for giving a newbie some info
    iOS is a weak OS with a strong ecosystem, BB10 is a strong OS with a weak ecosystem
  8. Thunderbuck's Avatar

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    #33  

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    Quote Originally Posted by itmccb View Post
    You say thst as if the development community is stagnant. Look up Android Design in Action if you haven't already. It's amazing. It teaches developers how to take the most advantage of the Holo UI to make beautiful and functional apps and how to make them work across previous Android versions (ie. target the latest OS and either use system defaults for certain elements or the robust library of simple backporting tools). I think it'd do RIM good to have a design community like this. It keeps devs engaged and shows what the platform is truly capable of.
    I realize that Google has a fantastic developer community for Android, and that they're doing everything they can to make the development process smoother.

    The trouble is, Google is losing control of the user experience. We've seen situations where a manufacturer imposed their own UI, only to find it broke upgradability. I still contend that developers face a big decision when they choose which version to target, and even if Google provides guidance and tools to help cover older versions, I find it hard to believe that they work for every scenario.

    Apple, at least, has maintained strict control of its own user experience in iOS, and keeps users updating fairly faithfully, so the only real problem they face right now is an aging platform. Their big issue will be in making a platform shift without losing devs and users, not unlike RIM 3 years ago. It's fair to say, Apple has the money to manage that transition much more gracefully than RIM has.

    I think RIM is in considerably better position, in its way. They've already alienated so many customers in the US that they're almost starting from scratch, so they don't face the "innovator's dilemma" the way Apple does. And, like Apple, they are at least starting out with full control over their users' experience.
  9. bobauckland's Avatar
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    #34  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbuck View Post
    I realize that Google has a fantastic developer community for Android, and that they're doing everything they can to make the development process smoother.

    The trouble is, Google is losing control of the user experience. We've seen situations where a manufacturer imposed their own UI, only to find it broke upgradability. I still contend that developers face a big decision when they choose which version to target, and even if Google provides guidance and tools to help cover older versions, I find it hard to believe that they work for every scenario.

    Apple, at least, has maintained strict control of its own user experience in iOS, and keeps users updating fairly faithfully, so the only real problem they face right now is an aging platform. Their big issue will be in making a platform shift without losing devs and users, not unlike RIM 3 years ago. It's fair to say, Apple has the money to manage that transition much more gracefully than RIM has.

    I think RIM is in considerably better position, in its way. They've already alienated so many customers in the US that they're almost starting from scratch, so they don't face the "innovator's dilemma" the way Apple does. And, like Apple, they are at least starting out with full control over their users' experience.
    The 2 problems with this post from my point of view are
    - The UI for Android apps is getting better rather than worse over the last few years. Most people feel that the overall app feel and OS feel in Android has now surpassed iOS from Jelly Bean onwards.
    - More importantly, and more objectively, I disagree with your last line, about how having alienated customers is somehow better than facing the need to innovate.
    Apple has a history of having kept customers happy. Their satisfaction and retention figures are brilliant. Theres no way thats a bad position.
    RIM has alienated customers. Thats the worst thing you can do.
    Pushing the PlayBook into peoples hands with promises that never came to fruition and getting customers to hate your product is not the best way to get them to come back when you launch your next flagship.
    Because of the PlayBook, Ill be very very careful before committing to a BB10 device. I can only imagine what other people with less of an attachment to BlackBerries feel.
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    #35  

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobauckland View Post
    Apple has a history of having kept customers happy. Their satisfaction and retention figures are brilliant. Theres no way thats a bad position.
    I'm not going to say you are wrong because you probably have far better access to numbers than I but, in my experience with many Apple users, the shine is starting to wear off. They tend to get bored and many times are looking for 'the next best thing'. The next few months will be an interesting show.
  11. itmccb's Avatar
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    #36  

    Default Re: (Very New To Blackberry) Question: What features differentiate BB10 and iOS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbuck View Post
    I realize that Google has a fantastic developer community for Android, and that they're doing everything they can to make the development process smoother.

    The trouble is, Google is losing control of the user experience. We've seen situations where a manufacturer imposed their own UI, only to find it broke upgradability. I still contend that developers face a big decision when they choose which version to target, and even if Google provides guidance and tools to help cover older versions, I find it hard to believe that they work for every scenario.

    Apple, at least, has maintained strict control of its own user experience in iOS, and keeps users updating fairly faithfully, so the only real problem they face right now is an aging platform. Their big issue will be in making a platform shift without losing devs and users, not unlike RIM 3 years ago. It's fair to say, Apple has the money to manage that transition much more gracefully than RIM has.

    I think RIM is in considerably better position, in its way. They've already alienated so many customers in the US that they're almost starting from scratch, so they don't face the "innovator's dilemma" the way Apple does. And, like Apple, they are at least starting out with full control over their users' experience.
    To say they're losing control suggests they've ever had the faintest interest in controlling manufacturers. Android is a platform that anyone can do anything they want with to make their own products. In fact, Google encourages customization- turning Android into something interesting. Google can make it as easy as possible for manufacturers to port the OS to their hardware, but that's all they'll ever do. Google's only responsibility is to Android itself and making sure users can get Android as they intended it and they do that in the form of the Nexus line which gets updates as soon as they're available. So, if you want the same type software support that Windows Phone and iOS get, then you buy a Nexus device. Otherwise, you're on the manufacturer's timeline.
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    #37  

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    "Very new".

    Okay.
  13. eds817's Avatar
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    #38  

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    Does anyone know if the email limitations will be different on BB10? Will the HTML email load automatically or will have to tell it to load the images? I don't know or even care if iOS or Android can or cannot do this, I just want BB to do it.
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  14. Thunderbuck's Avatar

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    #39  

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobauckland View Post
    The 2 problems with this post from my point of view are
    - The UI for Android apps is getting better rather than worse over the last few years. Most people feel that the overall app feel and OS feel in Android has now surpassed iOS from Jelly Bean onwards.
    - More importantly, and more objectively, I disagree with your last line, about how having alienated customers is somehow better than facing the need to innovate.
    Apple has a history of having kept customers happy. Their satisfaction and retention figures are brilliant. Theres no way thats a bad position.
    RIM has alienated customers. Thats the worst thing you can do.
    Pushing the PlayBook into peoples hands with promises that never came to fruition and getting customers to hate your product is not the best way to get them to come back when you launch your next flagship.
    Because of the PlayBook, Ill be very very careful before committing to a BB10 device. I can only imagine what other people with less of an attachment to BlackBerries feel.
    I wasn't trying to say that it was good for RIM to alienate US customers. What I meant is that in doing so, they have an opportunity now to almost start from scratch. Consumers have a low expectation that RIM will easily exceed, because BB10 shows every sign of being excellent.

    And while I agree that the UI for Android has improved over the years--and btw I'm NOT trying to say that Android is a bad product or platform by any means--those improvements have not been uniform, and I'm telling you that the lack of uniformity is a growing problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by itmccb View Post
    To say they're losing control suggests they've ever had the faintest interest in controlling manufacturers. Android is a platform that anyone can do anything they want with to make their own products. In fact, Google encourages customization- turning Android into something interesting. Google can make it as easy as possible for manufacturers to port the OS to their hardware, but that's all they'll ever do. Google's only responsibility is to Android itself and making sure users can get Android as they intended it and they do that in the form of the Nexus line which gets updates as soon as they're available. So, if you want the same type software support that Windows Phone and iOS get, then you buy a Nexus device. Otherwise, you're on the manufacturer's timeline.
    Yes, I get that. And I get the principal of encouraging customization (though I wish the manufacturers did a better job of extending that principle to their customers). The trouble is, we've seen examples just in the past few months of manufacturers who painted themselves in a corner and had to backtrack on promised upgradability. You might argue that it's their own tough luck for doing that, but the customers suffer and it demonstrates how fragmented the platform is getting. I still contend that BB10 enjoys something of an advantage over Android because at this point RIM is the only company building the phones and they can maintain more control over the user experience.
  15. Thunderbuck's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by eds817 View Post
    Does anyone know if the email limitations will be different on BB10? Will the HTML email load automatically or will have to tell it to load the images? I don't know or even care if iOS or Android can or cannot do this, I just want BB to do it.
    There's a good reason that RIM doesn't do this automatically: it exposes your e-mail address over unencrypted connections. In other words, it's a potential security issue, and RIM wants you to decide on a case-by-case basis if the risk is worthwhile.

    The Playbook handles this better than the current BB handsets by putting a "get images" button prominently on the e-mail itself (in other words, you don't have to open a menu and scroll through seemingly dozens of options to find "get images" like you do on the phones). Haven't actually seen e-mail yet on the BB10, but I'd guess they'll either do that or go with the Outlook scheme where you can whitelist senders once and automatically download images from that user from then on.
  16. eds817's Avatar
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    #41  

    Default (Very New To Blackberry) Question: What features differentiate BB10 and iOS?

    What about the email attachment size? Anyone know the limits?

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    #42  

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    at the heart of BB10, it is a communication device. It makes communicating the focus, where the others make playing games using apps their focus...
    Personal - VZW BlackBerry Z10 - 10.2.1.537
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    #43  

    Default Re: (Very New To Blackberry) Question: What features differentiate BB10 and iOS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbuck View Post
    .
    Yes, I get that. And I get the principal of encouraging customization (though I wish the manufacturers did a better job of extending that principle to their customers). The trouble is, we've seen examples just in the past few months of manufacturers who painted themselves in a corner and had to backtrack on promised upgradability. You might argue that it's their own tough luck for doing that, but the customers suffer and it demonstrates how fragmented the platform is getting. I still contend that BB10 enjoys something of an advantage over Android because at this point RIM is the only company building the phones and they can maintain more control over the user experience.
    What I'm getting at is that you're looking at Android wrong. Platform-wide control would only be detrimental. Instead control is enforced at the device level by the manufacturer. RIM has no more control over its devices than Google does its Nexus line and only marginally more than other manufacturers. Besides, firmware updates =! user experience. Save for updating the SDK version, firmware updates for third party devices are largely superfluous as they have their own set of features and because Gingerbread can run run the vast majority of apps and ICS can run everything. Sure, its annoying for some not to have the latest version of Android, but not getting the update doesn't break the device and if having the most recent version of Android were so important they would have either bought a Nexus or gotten into custom ROMs.
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  19. #44  

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    Quote Originally Posted by mathking606 View Post
    If apple can market do not disturb I'm sure RIM will have some distinct things about BB10.
    Is that the DND that stopped working at new year?
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    #45  

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    Quote Originally Posted by itmccb View Post
    What I'm getting at is that you're looking at Android wrong. Platform-wide control would only be detrimental. Instead control is enforced at the device level by the manufacturer. RIM has no more control over its devices than Google does its Nexus line and only marginally more than other manufacturers. Besides, firmware updates =! user experience. Save for updating the SDK version, firmware updates for third party devices are largely superfluous as they have their own set of features and because Gingerbread can run run the vast majority of apps and ICS can run everything. Sure, its annoying for some not to have the latest version of Android, but not getting the update doesn't break the device and if having the most recent version of Android were so important they would have either bought a Nexus or gotten into custom ROMs.
    I get the philosophical difference that you're talking about, and I understand that Google has made a deliberate business decision not to "lock down" the OS and to let the OEMs innovate. The point I'm trying to make is that there are drawbacks to this approach. As the OEM's feel more pressure to differentiate their products, they run more and more risk of breaking compatibility.

    And given how unprofitable Android seems to be unless your name is "Samsung", I'm not even sure why they're bothering.
  21. #46  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbuck View Post
    There's a good reason that RIM doesn't do this automatically: it exposes your e-mail address over unencrypted connections. In other words, it's a potential security issue, and RIM wants you to decide on a case-by-case basis if the risk is worthwhile.
    There's an even more significant issue - it avoids the need to download useless pictures, particularly when on high cost roaming or a slow connection. I have customers who will send a screenshot of a Windows error message. I don't need the picture to confirm what they said in the text before I tell them how to fix it, and I certainly don't need to wait for 5* 960Kbytes and a load of company logos @ 50Kbytes each to download at 2G speeds before I can answer.
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    #47  

    Default Re: (Very New To Blackberry) Question: What features differentiate BB10 and iOS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbuck View Post
    I get the philosophical difference that you're talking about, and I understand that Google has made a deliberate business decision not to "lock down" the OS and to let the OEMs innovate. The point I'm trying to make is that there are drawbacks to this approach. As the OEM's feel more pressure to differentiate their products, they run more and more risk of breaking compatibility.

    And given how unprofitable Android seems to be unless your name is "Samsung", I'm not even sure why they're bothering.
    Tampering with compatibility will disallow them from using Google serivces and distributing incompatible versions of Android gets them in legal trouble.

    As for why they bother: Android is the only platform that is free and gives them free reign over hardware and software so they can create their own products leveraging a thriving ecosystem and develop and experiment with cutting edge technology.
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    #48  

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    Quote Originally Posted by itmccb View Post
    Tampering with compatibility will disallow them from using Google serivces and distributing incompatible versions of Android gets them in legal trouble.

    As for why they bother: Android is the only platform that is free and gives them free reign over hardware and software so they can create their own products leveraging a thriving ecosystem and develop and experiment with cutting edge technology.
    But to Thunderbuck's point they aren't making much doing that. In the end that's why they're in business
  24. Thunderbuck's Avatar

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    #49  

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    Quote Originally Posted by itmccb View Post
    Tampering with compatibility will disallow them from using Google serivces and distributing incompatible versions of Android gets them in legal trouble.
    In theory, sure, but that hasn't stopped manufacturers from--at times--introducing devices with inconsistent and even laggy/buggy interfaces. Obviously, that's the exception, but you can't deny that it happens.

    As for why they bother: Android is the only platform that is free and gives them free reign over hardware and software so they can create their own products leveraging a thriving ecosystem and develop and experiment with cutting edge technology.
    Android isn't quite "free"; Microsoft gets a $10 fee for each license.

    And, again, at this point the only manufacturer actually making money on Android is Samsung, so I'm still not sure why they're bothering.
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    #50  

    Default (Very New To Blackberry) Question: What features differentiate BB10 and iOS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbuck View Post

    And, again, at this point the only manufacturer actually making money on Android is Samsung, so I'm still not sure why they're bothering.
    for now they are. but they havent always. for a while htc was king of android, and even Sony outdid Samsung. it wasnt until the s2 that Samsung started to climb to its position. i think some companies are hoping their turn will come.

    always makes me laugh when people say Samsung made android what it is. Samsung would be nothing like what it is now, without the work htc and sony did in raising androids profile.

    people suffer amnesia a lot when it comes to tech


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